how do I know if I'm really attracted to somebody?

[AvocadoLime]

Hi,

I spent months working really really hard to convince myself I was attracted to my abusive ex. That relationship ended over 5 years ago though and since then I can't tell if I'm attracted to people or not. I feel like I can talk myself into or out of being attracted to anybody. I would say I've definitely had crushes on people (I guess they were crushes?) but only on people who were definitely not available in one way or another, so they were safe to crush on. This has been going on for five years and I really hate it. People tell me that when I meet somebody I'm really interested in, I'll just know, but I don't think so. I spent my entire childhood working really hard to convince myself that the things I was experiencing and feeling weren't actually what I was experiencing and feeling. (And also having my family telling me that I wasn't feeling/experiencing what I was). I have a therapist, and she and previous therapists have all said I have really good instincts but it's like I have a switch in my head and when it turns off I feel sort of cold and numb and I don't know if I'm attracted to the person I thought I was attracted to. I'm able to talk to my therapist about how this effects me in most other areas but I am really really not comfortable bringing up sexuality with her. I haven't been in any romantic or sexual relationships other than that abusive one and I know that were I to be dating somebody and being intimate and start to feel numb I should definitely stop for the moment and that's fine but I would really like to be able to figure out if it's temporary numbness/flashbacks/whatever or if its that I'm actually just not into the person.

Are there any books you would recommend for people dealing with effects of sexual abuse and other abuse? Do I just need to get another therapist?

[AvocadoLime]

And I'm sorry if this isn't an appropriate question for your service. I feel like it might be outside the scope of what you do.

[Eddie C]

Hello there, AvocadoLime.

It is totally fine to ask this question here, so no worries about that.

Healing from an abusive relationship can take a lot of time and it is something that usually does not goes in a straight line. Sometimes is easier to feel comfortable with some people, sometimes is just hard. Even if we are with the same people, it is just hard. It is okay to just give yourself the time and space to figure this out. Sometimes is not about when are we ready to feel attracted to someone but to when are we ready to be okay with people being attracted to us, too.

You say you have a therapist, is there any specific reason why you don not feel comfortable sharing this thoughts with her? Do you feel comfortable talking with her at all? I ask this, because is really important to feel free to be honest and okay with your therapist so you can work through what is really going on in your mind. Otherwise, you are just working through "some" stuff, right?

I do not have book suggestions right now, but if you want to, I'll gather some for you.

[AvocadoLime]

Hi Edith,

Thanks for your reply. I do feel comfortable talking to my therapist about most things, I just have never felt comfortable talking to one about sexuality.

I can think of 6 people I've looked at and felt desire for, since I've been 13. Those include a couple of people I saw once, like at a grocery store when I was also out shopping. I know I could be forgetting a few people but I do think I see on average less than one person a year that I am immediately attracted to. I wouldn't say that I'm asexual though, at all.

I signed up for a dating app awhile ago because I thought maybe I just needed more practice. I've met a few people in person but didn't connect with any of them. I just recently met somebody though and I think we'll see each other again. They're attractive, but I didn't feel that immediate oh-my-gosh-you're-gorgeous pull with them. How do I know if I'm just talking myself into being interested in this person? If we do see each other again I am working on figuring out ways to find out what they might be interested in and how to let them know about my past in a way that is clear but doesn't make me feel like I'm sharing too much before I really trust them. But I imagine that if I didn't have any history of trauma and I were dating somebody and that person told me that they could talk themselves into being attracted to people/wanting physical intimacy even if they really didn't, I would end things because I would be afraid I was involved in the person hurting themselves.

I want to figure out how I know who I am attracted to, but it feels unfair and like I'm using others. Should I be waiting for that one person every 18 months or so that I do feel desire for and only pursuing them (assuming they're single and queer)? It seems like that would be a reallllllllly slow process since I know most of the people I've been attracted to in the past, actually all but 2, were not even a tiny bit available at all. And those other 2 were not actually people I wanted to be in a relationship with. And I think I can become genuinely attracted to people once i get to know them but I'm not sure.

How often do people feel desire right off the bat? Is there a typical frequency? I think it's questions like this that are part o f the reason I don't feel comfortable talking to my therapist about this. I definitely definitely do not even want a hint of any information about their own sexuality. And while the one I have now is good about boundaries I have had multiple ones in the past who have shared personal stories from their childhoods and relationship histories with me in a way that was super uncomfortable.

I don't feel like I'm desperate for a romantic relationship but I feel like the things I could get from a romantic relationship that I can't get from my friendships include a higher level of commitment, and physical/sexual intimacy. I have people that I would say are good friends but they all have their own relationships and families and a couple are going through some real tough stuff and have said that they basically can't be there for me right now because they have to sort out things in their own lives, which I get, but it's hard. I live alone, I find social relationships exhausting and MUCH prefer a few close intense ones to many casual ones, and I am actively trying to make at least one other local friend, but I also think about how it would be nice to wake up next to somebody who wasn't my rapist.

[Sam W]

Hi AvocadoLime,

Attraction really can be a tricky beast sometimes, so it's okay to feel sort of confused or frustrated about it. The honest answer is that there is no one pattern or timeline of attraction that seems to occur for people. It's super variable. Some people meet and feel an instant "spark," while other people find that they need more time to figure out if they're attracted to someone. It's up the individual to decide, when the immediate spark is absent, whether they want to keep pursuing the relationship to see if the spark emerges. For some people, they figure if the spark isn't there, why spend time hunting for it. Like I said, it's super variable.

I would recommend bringing this up with your therapist, especially since it sounds like some of your feelings about this may be interacting with the trauma you're dealing with from your ex. Most therapists will not disclose anything about their personal lives when a client brings something up about romance or sex, so you should be safe on that front.

[Redskies]

I think trying a lot to figure out if you're attracted to someone might just put your mind into twists and get you no closer to what you want to know: it's sounding a bit like you're trying very hard to focus on a thing that's pretty intangible at the moment, and I think you might end up missing the more tangible things that might lead you somewhere. Rather than focusing on what you don't know, and trying to figure it out, I suggest focusing on and really leading with what you do know. For example, when you're dating people, things like: did you enjoy spending time with them/talking with them? Were they interesting? Did you like how this human looked, how their voice sounds? Was that a good way for you to spend your Tuesday afternoon? Certainly in the early days of dating someone, the only commitment you make is to show up or cancel with reasonable notice for the date you made; you don't need to guarantee from Day 1 that you are, in fact, attracted to them. Like Sam said, how attraction works and how it pans out is massively variably, and there are absolutely some people who date for a while in order to see if they feel attraction. You're not using other people by doing that! If you want to date, you might do best with a slow-paced, "enjoying hanging out" kind of dating, and dating people who are also down with that.

Something you might try is, when you're with a person, see if you can be very aware of and appreciative of some sensory thing. Maybe the cake is delicious - really notice and savour it. Maybe the couch is super-comfy - really feel it and enjoy it. Or, there is a track you love playing, or a fabulous scent. Do you feel able and safe to notice those things and acknowledge those feelings?

[Heather]

I'd also suggest it might be helpful to think about attraction less as desire and more as curiosity: it can be less loaded and sometimes, more accurate.

So, going with your gut feelings -- not your big-brain thoughts, just basic, gut feelings and impressions -- you can just ask yourself "Does X person/situation arouse feelings of sexual or romantic curiosity in me? Does X person/situation make me want to find out/explore more?" and really, I think you've got yourself the answer to the attraction question most of the time.

[AvocadoLime]

Thanks Heather and everybody; sorry it's taken me so long to respond. I've been thinking a lot about what you all said. Heather that makes a lot of sense about attraction being more about curiosity than desire per se. I guess now I just don't know how to listen to my gut. I feel like I shut down and I just don't know if I'm curious about somebody or not. I have now seen a person three times, and up until this most recent time I was really having fun. But now I feel like I need to share some of my past and know how they react to it, in order to feel really comfortable around them, and I honestly just feel numb now. I'm not excited to hang out with them again, though I do feel sad if I think about *not* seeing them again. It's like I can't even let my brain entertain the possibility of me being interested in them, because I feel like I have so much baggage, I guess. And then I start thinking that if thats the way I feel, there is no way I could have a healthy relationship with anybody, but I also genuinely do think that if somebody I were dating or interested in told me the things I would tell this other person, they would not make me want to stop dating them. And I think I have a lot to bring to a relationship.

How do I know if I feel numb/not excited about seeing him again, but sad about not seeing him, because that's some sort of trauma response that's masking my gut, vs. it being about me liking the idea of a relationship but not this person?

[Heather]

I'm heading out, but what I want to do anyway is just try and reflect some of what I'm hearing you say back at you in different language and see if a) it feels right to you, and b) if it might help you think about more of this in ways that are useful to you.

I (think I) hear you saying that:
1) You don't feel like you can trust your own instincts, and feel like you shut them down as a general habit.

2) You have recently had a good time with someone -- I'm not getting if you have felt attracted to them or not, but that might be because you aren't either! -- but while you looked forward to seeing them so far, things have gotten to a point where you feel like you need to be a bit more vulnerable with them to move things forward and that scares you and makes you feel like you'd rather avoid them to avoid doing that (being more vulnerable/opening up).

3) You are afraid of feeling interest in/attraction to someone because you feel you have "too much baggage" for them to (guessing a bit here) want to pursue things with you or maintain interest in you once they know you better.

4) You fear that you can't have healthy relationships (of any kind, or just sexual or romantic ones?) with anyone.

5) You assume that others will feel about you how you do about yourself and that since you'd -- basically -- reject you out of turn were the show on the other foot, others will reject you, even though you also feel you have a lot to bring to relationships.

Something I'd throw at you to try with this, with figuring out how you feel about this person, specifically, and if you are attracted to them sexually or romantically, specifically is this: if you can close your eyes for a sec and imagine you're someone else without all the things you worry about about you and others, or that make you feel so fearful you feel shut down -- like, maybe the superhero version of yourself? -- does this person elicit sexual or romantic feelings in you? At all?

If so, then you have one or both of those kinds of attraction to them. How much or how little, and what flavor they are for you, who knows, but if you're just looking for a yes or no -- not a what kind or a how much or a what-do-I-want-to-do-with-those-feelings -- that may get you there as a place to start.

(I'll be back around Friday -- Thursday is my outreach day -- but others will be here before if you want to pick this up with them, or, of course, you can take as much time as you need. No one ever needs to be sorry here about taking what time they want or need to respond to us: our exchanges with you all here are for you, not us. )

[AvocadoLime]

I would say what you heard was accurate in terms of how I feel, accept that for point 5, I would Not reject somebody for having the past that I do. But I also feel like others would/will reject me. I realize that's not really rational

For point 4, I think I can, and do, have healthy friendships. I am just not at all sure about romantic relationships, because I feel like I see myself as being somebody with a lot of weird needs in relation to romantic relationships, compared to needs of hypothetical partners, and I feel like that brings an automatic power imbalance where I'll be grateful to them for putting up with me and that idea feels icky.

Oh and for point 2, I guess I would say that I have, and maybe still do? feel attracted to them. But there is also this voice in my head saying that wanting physical/sexual intimacy is gross/wrong and also I can't even imagine a hypothetical path to being physically intimate with anybody, that doesn't involve a whole lot of also getting triggered and dissociating on my part. And that feels daunting, and like its a lot to ask somebody to work through with me, and I don't want to feel like someone's inexperienced mentee.

[Heather]

(Was just checking in once more before I left!)

Mind talking a little bit about this idea of "weird needs?" What kinds of needs do you think are weird, and how do you feel like what you need is different or unusual compared to your ideas about what everyone else (with the given you probably already get that there is no "everybody else" because we're all just too varied for that) needs?

Btw, I forget what part of my hometown you're in! Wave hello to it for me, would you, if you pass through the north side?

[AvocadoLime]

haha well weird needs like not knowing exactly what my needs are, and needing them to ask every time if its ok to put their hand on my shoulder and being ok with me all of a sudden being unable to continue holding hands or whatever.

I think my main problem, or what feels like my main problem, is that I'm not sure how to know if I want to have any kind of romantic/sexual relationship with any particular person without trying, and I don't know how to feel safe enough to try without knowing it's what we both want, if that makes sense?

[Heather]

If this is not something you want to answer, you don't have to, but is some of what we're talking about engaging sexual and romantic relationships after abuse or assault? I ask because a) that's not so weird -- I just finished a new edition of my book and made a point of rolling out data to show that more of us are survivors of some kind of abuse than not -- and b) there are some road maps for this!

(Now I really am heading out of work for the day, but I will keep an eye on this when I'm back!)

[AvocadoLime]

I would say that almost all, if not all, is about the aftermath of abuse and assault. Road maps would be great.

[AvocadoLime]

As another example of how I'm confused, we hugged when saying good-bye. And when people talk about hugs, they imply that one should feel something. When I hug my friends, it feels nice. This didn't feel nice, or bad, I didn't feel turned on or off, I just didn't feel anything emotionally and I'm not sure if I felt any physical sensation or not. It felt I guess like maybe I was dissociating. (Or maybe that's not the right word, but in the past I have only been able to tell people were touching me because I could see their hands on me, I couldn't feel it.) So how do I figure out if I'm 'just' dissociating/triggered and genuinely into this person, or if there's nothing 'wrong' and I'm just not attracted to them?

[Heather]

(Weather kept me from being able to go off-island today, so I am around for a little bit.)

Per road maps: do you have access to buying books or a library? I'm thinking to build you a list of both online and print resources, if that sounds good to you. I'd also be happy, if you feel like it could be useful to you, to talk to you about some of my personal experience navigating some of this as a survivor.

I think that with the example you're giving, what you can know is that, for whatever reason, right now you are clearly not feeling physically connected to that person. It may be because you can't, due to trauma, it may be that you just don't because that's not how you feel about them, but for now, I'm not sure the why of that is as relevant as the mere fact that nope, it doesn't sound like you're feeling a thing that's physical or affectionate for this person. And when you know that, IMO, you can probably know that moving to pursuing anything with them that involves having those feelings probably isn't a good idea. Does that make sense?

Later on -- and if you feel you may be dissociating with touch, I'd advise looking into some kind of counseling or therapy, because that signals a need for some qualified help dealing with trauma -- you can figure out more of the why. If this is about just not being ready to be touched at all by people you're not already close to, then perhaps it's just not the right time for you to be dating, because what you really need is that time and energy for healing. Again, that's something a qualified counselor or therapist who works with people who have survived abuse or trauma can help you figure out.

[AvocadoLime]

I do have access to books and would appreciate a list.

I guess it's just confusing, because up until this point I was really wanting to be physically close to this person, and this last time we spent time together I was mostly nervous and uncomfortable because I feel like there are big things they don't know about me so even if they like me they can't really like *me* and so I didn't enjoy this last meeting much at all. But I'm not sure if I should take that to mean that I should drop things, or share some of those big things and see how their reaction is.

[Heather]

Okay! I'll work on something for you over the next day or so.

I hear you: all of this can be confusing, even without previous trauma to manage, which, of course, makes it extra confusing!

You know, I do want to say that I think it might be possible that the change of heart/feelings might be about realizing you're at the point where you feel you have to be more open with this person, and not feeling safe doing that. As anything progresses with someone, we're both going to get more and more cues -- which are information -- about and from them about them, about how we feel about them, and that can inform those feelings, and also have to open up more and more, and how we feel about THAT gives us information, even before we do that, even if we never do open up more.

And I think it's vital to pay attention to those feelings -- to feeling unsafe in any way -- no matter what, but especially if we have been through trauma. Because you know, sometimes we will have those feelings because our intuition is telling us we are NOT safe, whether that's about us just not being ready to be more vulnerable, about that person actually not being a safe person to be more vulnerable with, or both.

I think where to go from here depends on what you want. But in the event you're thinking you can't just move on and take a pass on pursuing anything further -- either because you worry you might not get another opportunity with someone else, or because you feel obligated in some way -- I want to reassure you that you can. It's always okay for us to take a pass at any point in dating or any kind of relationship, whether that's three dates in or three years in. I think that sometimes it's easy to forget that doing that could be missing out, yes -- because I feel like that narrative is pretty much everywhere, and most often aimed at women, no less -- but it also could just as well NOT be: it could be not investing time, energy and vulnerability in a place that just isn't right for us.

[AvocadoLime]

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, except that I've never felt safe enough to tell people anything and I've made myself do so and as a result I now have 4 people that I actually like and feel more or less comfortable around. But as I think I said upthread, none of these are legal family (my legal family is definitely not safe for a variety of reasons) and also these 4 have a lot going on in their own lives and I would like to have more than four people that I can talk to.

[Heather]

Duly noted and completely understood. It just might be that either this guy, or any potential sexual or romantic partner, at this time, may not feel like the right next-person-to-have-to-talk-to about your abuse/assault history. While in time, those kinds of partners can be some of the best people, like best friends, to talk with and get support from, when those kinds of relationships or interactions are shiny and new, they tend to be way more loaded and challenging places for this kind of disclosure.

This list for you is my first top on my to-do list for tomorrow!

[Heather]

(Late with this for you, my apologies: behind today, and some killer cramps are not helping. I have not forgotten!)

[Heather]

Sorry for the delay!

Bookwise, I'd suggest:
• The Survivor's Guide to Sex: How to Have an Empowered Sex Life After Child Sexual Abuse Paperback OR (newer version) Healing Sex: A Mind-Body Approach to Healing Sexual Trauma by Staci Haines
• What You Really, Really Want: The Smart Girl's Shame-Free Guide to Sex and Safety, by Jaclyn Friedman (note: Jaclyn is a longtime friend, but this is a book I'd think was amazing regardless, and she is also a survivor, so like the work of many of us who are survivors, I'd say that informs a lot of this so can be a good survivor fit)
• The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk, MD
• Life, Reinvented: A Guide to Healing from Sexual Trauma for Survivors and Loved Ones by Erin Carpenter
• Breathe: Finding Freedom to Thrive in Relationships After Childhood Sexual Abuse by Nicole Braddock Bromley (not sure about your timeline with abuse, so this may or may not be a good fit for you)

Online:
• http://www.scarleteen.com/article/relat ... mate_again
• http://mic.com/articles/128257/here-s-w ... .OoIQkQQPO
• http://cuvictimassistance.com/issues/se ... al-assault
• http://www.pandys.org/articles/reclaimingsexuality.html
• http://thoughtcatalog.com/kirsten-stric ... with-ptsd/

[AvocadoLime]

Thanks for all those resources. I've ordered a few of those books but they're not here yet and I'll be seeing this guy again soon and I'm completely baffled as to what to say to him.

I don't know how to say that I am attracted to him, or that I might be, or that I want to kiss him except that I'm absolutely terrified to do so and because I'm so terrified of kissing him, I'm not sure if I should.

I know you probably think this fear means I'm not really attracted to him, but I feel like for the past 5 or 6 years the more I've been attracted to somebody the more I've wanted to get the heck away from them because I'm so afraid of being gross or something. Logically I get that it's not gross to want to kiss somebody, but I don't know how to logic my feelings.

What I'd really like are some ideas on how to articulate all this to this guy, and also ideas on how to figure out ways to explore what I want with as little risk to myself as possible. For example, is it fair to him if we do kiss or hug or something and then I need a few days without contact to calm myself down?

I don't feel comfortable asking my friends for idea on what to say to him.

[AvocadoLime]

Or, how do I work through this thing where the more attracted I am to somebody the more I force myself to hate them? It's only getting worse as the years go by and I don't want to be like this.

[Heather]

Alas, that sounds to me like the kind of question for a therapist, as it is likely based in your life history and working through that over time.