Difficulty with Masturbation

[IthilienDude]

I don't know if this is a no-go topic or not, but I'm going to risk it.

For people who have been following my threads, this probably won't come as any surprise, but I have significant difficulty with exploring myself, but the issue is quite specific (forgive me).

I can't get any pleasure (or climax) out of masturbation unless I'm imagining myself being raped or assaulted, or worse, remembering and reliving the experience of being assaulted by my ex-boyfriend. The less enjoyable and uncomfortable the mental scenario, the more likely I am to get enjoyment out of it. If I imagine nice, consensual, caring, communicative, and loving scenarios it's an instant turn off. Like, absolutely instant turn off.

I don't quite understand why this is the issue. I feel really ashamed of fantasising about people I know/people I am attracted to while masturbating, also: that's an instant turn off.

I don't really quite know how to fix it, and - as mentioned in prior threads - professional help in this matter is almost impossible to source in this country.

[Sam W]

Hi ithiliendude,

I want to let you know that you're not the first survivor I've spoken to whose experienced this. It does seem to be one possible result of having gone through abuse (we could speculate about why that it, but since I don't have reliable data on the reasons, I'm going to steer clear of guessing).

I'm wondering if a baby step approach would work. What happens if you add in a small conversation about the beginning of the fantasy where you and fantasy partner agree that you're going to act out this scenario? In other words, changing the story just slightly to make it consensual.

[IthilienDude]

Sam W,

I've always had issues with masturbation, even before being assaulted. When I was a teenager I didn't explore myself for years because I believed it was shameful and dirty, and each time I masturbated I would cry and feel like the worst human being in the world. It was only in my early 20s that I kinda got over it all: I had a good woman friend (we were both bi, there was chemistry out the wazoo, but then she ended up getting engaged to my brother and it was a clusterf*!k) who was quite sexually expressive and decided she was going to 'de-prude' me by taking me to sex shops. It was a good liberating experience!

But now, since my abuses as a 20-something, it's all gone south again (no pun intended). I can perceive sex as something wholesome or good that happens between two people who care for each other: in my mind, it's inextricably linked to a power dynamic and struggle for dominance. It's become something I see myself as the passive party in, without exception. I can't imagine being active or experimenting or doing anything to expand sexually because in my mind I'm afraid of making a mistake and my partner ridiculing me to death.

In my fantasies, I'm always the quietly compliant subject of a slightly older aggressor, and I'm always a teenager. The teenager is aware of her sexuality and wants to explore it, but finds herself in situations where she's not 100% comfortable but is going with it anyway; like the stereotypical schoolgirl exploitation scenario. Any attempt to communicate with the man in the fantasy breaks the illusion completely and then I find myself feeling very stupid.

I find the only way I can work around this is by talking out loud, but I have to do some serious prep to reassure myself that I don't sound stupid.

You gotta love repressive upbringings and abusive romantic experiences. Real character building stuff right there.

[Heather]

Ah, sarcasm: feels like home.

I'm curious (if you don't mind indulging me): do the same things -- the same scenarios coming up for you included -- occur when you're doing things to intentionally pleasure yourself that are NOT genital, or perhaps what you'd think of as sexual?

In other words, with ways of going about self-pleasure that are more sensual (about sensory experiences, which may or may not be sexual), more whole-body or both -- like say, just rolling your hands over your whole body in ways that feel physically good, or doing something physical to feel good, like laying on a warn beach (In Ireland, you ask? Where? I know, not the best example) or stretching out a cooking process for your enjoyment and sensory pleasure, do the same associations occur?

Too, have you ever just gone with these fantasy scenarios and let them play out, really just going all-in in your head, rather than trying to push them away? I ask because sometimes, even though it's obviously yucky and uncomfortable in some ways, this kind of fantasy and letting it play itself out can actually be healing for survivors and get you through to the other side. The prevailing theory with that is that while yes, the fantasy isn't about consensual sex, the fact that it is YOUR fantasy, paired with YOUR chosen sexual activities still makes it very radically different, in that it is all something in your control, not up to someone else. That can make it one step towards taking back your sexual power and control on the whole, if you follow.

I wonder if it might help, when you try and change the script in these fantasies, and then have a reaction to how you feel about that that's about you being stupid, if you can't write down a couple good self-talk lines or scripts for yourself to try and change that response so that you do NOT feel stupid. What's NOT stupid about you trying to flip that script? (Everything, really.) What's NOT surprising about how calling out nonconsent and trying to talk about it with someone -- real or imagined -- who isn't on board makes the whole situation not "sexy" or sexually charged anymore? (Nothing.)

Lastly, you probably already know that lot of people get turned on by charged power bits when it comes to sex and sexuality. That's okay: it's a very pervasive structure -- on top/on bottom or active/passive -- in our world, so it taking up a lot of sexual real estate for a lot of people is hardly a shocker. And people can go ahead and be sexual with that and have that be part of their sex lives but ALSO have it all be consensual, negotiated and in no way abusive. So, it may be that -- and who knows if this is or isn't about the abuse you experienced, as it might be but it also might not be -- this is just part of your own sexuality and something you like that's gotten jumbled up with the experiences you have had that are NOT consensual, negotiated or wanted. If you want to talk about how to seek out or have sexual relationships or interactions that involve safe and healthy power exchange, we can certainly do that.

(I get, btw, that that can feel loaded and a bit "Oh man, what if I'm turned on by dynamics that may be because of, or in some way resemble aspects of my abuse?" I don't personally get it around this particular dynamic, the powerplay stuff, but it has personally come up for me in my life with another aspect of my own sexuality and sexual life, so know I, like, get-it, get-it, not just get-it-because-it-is-my-job get it.)

[IthilienDude]

Heather,

I don't have the same associations with activities that I find sensually stimulating, like nice warm baths and eating nice cakes (both of which I do often, and sometimes in conjunction) because those are solitary activites: they don't involve a second person, usually. Processes that are partnered introduce a new level of complexity, and in my mind anything sexual is automatically partnered.

As in, have I ever let an abuse fantasy play out completely? In a sense yes, and that's what concerns me. They're my go to if I want to get the job done, as it were, because they're guaranteed to get results. But I fear that this says a lot about my overall attitude to sexual activities. But usually I imagine that I'm outside myself, watching it happen as a third party. I find it way too weird to imagine it actually happening to me first-person.

I wonder if it might help, when you try and change the script in these fantasies, and then have a reaction to how you feel about that that's about you being stupid, if you can't write down a couple good self-talk lines or scripts for yourself to try and change that response so that you do NOT feel stupid. What's NOT stupid about you trying to flip that script? (Everything, really.) What's NOT surprising about how calling out nonconsent and trying to talk about it with someone -- real or imagined -- who isn't on board makes the whole situation not "sexy" or sexually charged anymore? (Nothing.)

I don't quite understand what this means. Could you simplify it for me, please?

I used to get excitement out of powerplay, sure. I had a boyfriend when I was younger and it worked fairly well because it was all flippant and terribly fun: we'd been friends for years beforehand so that helped (and we're still good friends today), but somehow along the way that all got confused and now it terrifies me. My last boyfriend took powerplay to the extreme: he made to dominate him in really obscene ways that I found absolutely disgusting, but I didn't feel that I could say no or explain how uncomfortable it was because I felt that -- because he was a virgin -- I had to be 'good' to him by doing whatever he wanted. He would never let me play out my own fantasies, only his. Now, the concept reviles me.

All I want now is mutual respectful and fully communicative sexual activity, but unfortunately that doesn't translate into fantasy.

[Heather]

OMG, bath + cake sounds AMAZING. <puts on bucket list>

But I fear that this says a lot about my overall attitude to sexual activities. But usually I imagine that I'm outside myself, watching it happen as a third party. I find it way too weird to imagine it actually happening to me first-person.

I'd see what you can do to try and let go of some of those judgments. Like I said, one thing it may "say" is that your brain and sexuality are trying to work through your trauma and take steps through it to come out on the other side per reclaiming your sexuality. After all, again, in those fantasies, YOU do have all the power and control in actuality, because they are YOUR fantasies, not something someone else is doing to you. And that's pretty radically different than being abused or assaulted, you know?

When I talked about changing the script per how you respond to yourself -- you say you feel stupid -- I mean seeing what you can do to interrupt that feeling and judgement with self-talk that counters it. It's not stupid, after all, to do creative exercises (in a lot of ways, that's some of what any kind of fantasy, sexual fantasy included, is) where you try and interrupt or change something nonconsensual or call it out. Nothing stupid there! Does that make any more sense?

If not, like so:
1) You have that fantasy where someone else is taking all the power or doing things against your will, and in your head, you interrupt it.
2) Then the magic of being turned on stops, and you feel stupid.
3) Then you answer that feeling with positive statements -- said aloud or just thought -- like "It's not stupid to interrupt nonconsent, even when it's happening in my head," or "It's okay to stop feeling turned on at any time, including by interrupting nonconsent" or simply, "I'm not stupid, I'm wise."

I wonder if it might be helpful to remind yourself that fantasy, by design, isn't reality. I'm hearing what sounds like a fear that what you want in reality isn't going to be something you can have, or trust yourself to seek out, because of your fantasies that aren't reflective of that wanted reality.

But, here's an example (one that clearly identifies me as a Class A Weirdo, but I suppose that's not news to anyone here who knows me at all anyway, so): I have always really liked speculative fiction, particularly post-apocalyptic narratives and stories. Odd as it sounds, they actually comfort me: there's just something about seeing what happens when the reset button on a world is pushed, even if the results are scary and not wonderful. When I feel stressed, I read or watch things in which the world as we know it is destroyed or damaged and I feel better.

But that's about fantasy. In reality, I'm the kind of person with the kind of belief system who wants to have that avoided at all costs and even does what I can to try to keep that from happening. In reality, were those things to happen, I would not be all "WHOOHOO! The world is over!" In reality, I'm never going to become a doomsday prepper or the kind of person waiting for the rapture. And engaging in that kind of fantasy that doesn't reflect my reality isn't something that changes my reality, what I want in reality, and what I seek out in reality. You follow?

The generally typical line of thought from sex therapists, btw, when it comes to people having sexual fantasies that disturb or distress them is that trying to push them out or getting all judgy about them only makes them stickier and more pervasive, rather than being helpful. Instead, just accepting them as they are and letting them turn you on if they do is what's generally advised. Again, you can have that kind of fantasy -- be it alone or in your head when with a partner -- and still only seek out and create sexual interactions and relationships that are respectful and consensual. And you can also seek out ways of putting some aspects of those fantasies into your realities with partners if you like, but in ways that are -- and stay, and if not, you vamoose -- healthy, consensual and fully negotiated, where anyone involved may play at the fantasy of unequal power, but that's not the reality, because in reality, for example, any sexual submission or passivity that's happening is something that has been discussed and fully negotiated ahead of time, each time, and agreements are kept throughout, so no one is ACTUALLY passive.

This:

My last boyfriend took powerplay to the extreme: he made to dominate him in really obscene ways that I found absolutely disgusting, but I didn't feel that I could say no or explain how uncomfortable it was because I felt that -- because he was a virgin -- I had to be 'good' to him by doing whatever he wanted. He would never let me play out my own fantasies, only his. Now, the concept reviles me.

..is NOT an example of mutually wanted, negotiated and actively consented powerplay in sex, for instance. It's anything but, and doesn't resemble sexually healthy and consensual powerplay/BDSM in the slightest. In healthy ways of bringing powerplay into sex, no one is "making" anyone do anything, everyone feels able and is able to speak up for themselves as any time AND is always heard and responded to accordingly, and no one is ever the sole decider of what happens.

I'm not sure how much of that you do or don't want to talk about now, though, so I'll let that lie unless you tell me you want to dig into that stuff more.

[IthilienDude]

Heather,

I know the bath thing is a fairly flippant topic, but I have however found introducing a time every week where I just turn off my phone, lie in nice bath with aromatherapy bubbles with candles, and watch a movie on my tablet has done wonders for my mental health. It's like a little oasis of calm in an otherwise extremely anxious world.

I do try my best to let go of judgments, but sometimes in doing so I discover new judgments that I never knew I had. Having to undo years and years of judgment around sexuality is a slow process, and in my limited experience it gets way worse before it gets better: you have to stare the ugly stuff square in the face before you can be reconciled with it.

Being sexually empowered is something I have absolutely zero experience of, and as such can't recognise. I don't know what it's like to be confident in my behaviour, or openly communicative. Any of my past relationships that resembled something healthy were long ago and long forgotten.

I also have difficulty separating sexual reality from sexual fantasy because I believe that people always know what I'm thinking. Being brought up in a GODKNOWSALLYOURTHOUGHTS household made it very difficult to not judge my own mind. (Even though God and I have sorted that out, the lingering internal parent still judges).

Those little steps in changing the script, as you put it, would probably be helpful but would take a lot of practise! Which requires patience, which is a virtue I sincerely lack.

Taking your list into consideration, it does remind me of a few self-comforting exercises I've been trying recently. I've been experimenting with talking to myself as if I were talking to a loved one or partner (encouraging myself, comforting myself, bitching with myself about idiots at work) and sometimes actually physically comforting myself with hugs and things. It sounds utterly pathetic, but my life is devoid of meaningful emotional or affectionate exchange with other humans, so I have to rely on myself. But it's been surprisingly helpful; I've never really thought of bringing that into my sexual dealings with myself.

(I totally get your finding comfort in post-apocalyptic fiction. I also find it comforting. I also find crime dramas and documentaries oddly calming too, and anything dark or macabre.)

I understand that concept of accepting the disturbing and distressing fantasies. For years when I was suicidally depressed the therapists actually used to get me to explain to them in vivid detail how I self-harmed, what my ritual was, and if I were to kill myself how would I do it. Nothing was out of bounds, and it was actually truly helpful. In the end, it stopped me from self-injuring (although to this day I still have this habit of pulling out my hair and my eyelashes and sometimes I don't even know I'm doing it, but at least I'm not setting bits of myself on fire or bleeding myself.)

I suppose a huge amount of these issues stem from my overall implanted belief that sex is something to be ashamed of, something to be kept behind closed doors, and never spoken of. Not being able to accept myself as a sexual being has had disastrous effects on my ability to adult.

[With regards to my ex: he was brought up in a Baptist household, had never had a sexual partner until I met him (he was 21, I was 24), and most of his sex ed had come from Reddit forums and online pornography. Once I started helping him explore his sexuality, a lot of really dark, dark stuff came out. He had completely divorced his head from his body, and didn't respond in any way to physical stimulation: he wasn't sensual, and didn't understand my need to be stimulated sensually. All of his turn-ons were intellectualised concepts, and cold as hell.

He had a humiliation fetish: he loved the concept of being bullied, but in a really childish way. He liked the fantasy of him being a slightly younger child being humiliated by a slightly older girl. That stuff was fine, I got that, but it evolved.

Eventually he could only get satisfaction out of having his face sat on and being suffocated, and sometimes the concept of being crushed. He also got really excited by body odour, trapped wind (he would be instantly turned on if I broke wind around him, and sometimes asked me to do it on his face/parts of his body), and the smell of used tampons and sanitary towels. He used to ask for my soiled underwear to keep.

As a result, the idea of being involved sexually with anyone else ever again as long as I live freaks the ever-living hell out of me.]

[Redskies]

Hi Ithiliendude,

I'm not surprised you'd feel freaked out at the thought of being sexual with someone when you have those experiences as a reference point and example. I'd say it's actually a pretty healthy response to feel scared and freaked out at the possibility of doing something sexual you don't want to do, or being expected or required to do a thing because the other person wants it, without regard for what you want.

There's nothing inherently wrong with an interest in humiliation or the other specifics; what's never okay, of course, is to assume or expect another person to just fulfill any sexual fantasies and to not pay any attention to what that person wants or doesn't want. That's just plain selfish in any kind of human interaction, but it's especially busted and exploitative in sexual interactions.

Because the kinds of things he was into are usually strongly associated with taboo or shameful kinds of sexuality (and it's likely that's not a coincidence with his very repressed background, but that's not for us to untangle), I can imagine that it was and is especially challenging for you, against your own backdrop of cultural attitudes and feelings about sexuality being shameful or dirty. It seems that the things he picked were really primed to set off those old feelings and associations for you. That may also not have been a coincidence: if someone's meaning - either consciously or subconsciously - to be exploitative, they can be eerily good at picking out and using our tenderest and most vulnerable spots.

You said

Having to undo years and years of judgment around sexuality is a slow process, and in my limited experience it gets way worse before it gets better: you have to stare the ugly stuff square in the face before you can be reconciled with it.

- yes, that summarises an important part of the healing process really, really well. I hope that describing some of what your ex did has helped you with that, helped you know that you can look this squarely in the face when you need to, and helped you begin to put aside some of the feelings of shame about sexuality that you have. There's nothing wrong or shameful about having been involved in, or coerced into, any of the things you described; his behaviour was wrong.

It's also okay if your brain feels a little scrambled with power relations and what you do/don't want or find a turn-on - obviously it's not okay for you feeling it, but I mean in a value-judgement sense. Sometimes exploitative sexual experiences can do some hijacking like that for a while, especially if we don't have a lot of positive experiences or previous cultural attitudes to contradict it. It can certainly feel very confusing or unpleasant, but it's not a thing in itself to feel bad about. With time and processing, when the difficult stuff takes up less space and shouts in your ear less, it's possible to take back more space to figure out what kind of a sexuality might be yours and how you might want to live it.

[IthilienDude]

Redskies,

Oh I understand there's nothing wrong with the many unusual ways that people express their sexualities. When I'm not a nervous wreck, I also like some fairly peculiar things. But as you say, it's the context that makes them enjoyable.

I have a habit of going for abusive and exploitative men. As I touched on in a previous post, one of my exes assaulted me in public and then afterwards claimed it was my idea and it was wrong and bad to have done it. I also had an ex who -- when I initiated sex -- used to accuse me of only wanting him for sex, and would withhold as a control mechanism.

At first, I genuinely had no issue with helping him explore his "taboo" fetishes: I wanted to help him learn more about himself, and did my best to make our relationship as safe a place as possible for him to try new things. But soon, my willingness to facilitate became an expectation, and if I said no he'd spiral off into this "Oh my God, I'm such an awful person, why do you even put up with me?!" rant, that I just couldn't deal with. If I tried to explain to him how to do the things I liked, he'd give up halfway through crying about how unworthy and stupid he was. Eventually, I just gave in and did everything to keep him happy because I just couldn't be dealing with it.

I just feel like for me, given my upbringing, that things to do with sex are inherently partnered, and exploring sexuality just with myself feels like I've failed in getting someone else to do the sex-things with me because I'm ugly/unworthy/forever-alone. I sometimes feel that masturbation and things like that are a last resort for satisfaction when you're too pathetic to get a partner with whom you can have meaningful connexion.

Now, I know in my logical mind, that that isn't true at all and that it's a normal and healthy part of any person's sexuality, but it means that I find I give up before I try, or I get it over and done with as quickly as possible.

I just seem incapable of having any kind of constructive, safe, or at least non-dysfunctional sexual experiences. I think I am so willing to please because I don't date much and live a life of such abject loneliness that when I get a 'somebody' I hold onto them with a deathgrip.

God I wish I were normal.

[Heather]

If there was a hug button on the keyboard, I'd be holding my finger down on it. I'm so sorry that you feel how you do right now, so sorry about the impact of the kind of perfect storm of all this, and so sorry you've been through what you have.

I'm wondering how you feel about the timing of all of this. Does it feel like now is your right time and place to try and create a sexual and/or romantic life, alone or with someone else? Or does it feel like you're still so shellshocked and hurt by all of what's led you to this point that perhaps it's just NOT the right time to focus on this part of your life, and might be better to gain some strength and energy first from other areas of your life that are less loaded and full of trauma, and might also give you some pieces with some of this -- like greater assertiveness, for instance, or increased self-esteem -- before tackling this part?

[IthilienDude]

Thank you, I appreciate the hugs! I don't get many hugs so I'm always grateful of one

For years I went to therapy sessions that were all kind of general and vague, and as such weren't very helpful. Recently I had an initial consultation with the Rape Crisis -- where they told me the waiting list was a year long -- where I explained to the counselor that I wanting to start dealing with specific issues to untangle them, and this was one that I had been avoiding since forever.

I've always had a strong sexual energy: I discovered that I had parts that tingled when I was very young, and masturbated to orgasm for the first time when I was about 7 or 8. Of course, I didn't know it was an orgasm, but I knew that I couldn't talk to my mother about it because she had told me not to "touch my girly bits, because it makes them sore". I knew that sexuality was a big part of me from very early on (I am quite a sensual person: I love eating, soft fabrics, massages, hot baths, sleeping in cuddly beds, dancing, movement of all kinds, and pretty much any joy in life that's experienced by the body), but it was so clothed in shame in my household that I could never explore it. I realise as an adult that this experience has had a significantly damaging effect on me, and it's only dawned on my in the last 6 months the depth of the trauma.

I never felt ready to deal with these issues in the past, but I feel now that my subconscious has brought this to my conscious' attention because she wants it sorted: I think she feels that it's getting in between me and having the life I want, which includes my aspirations for family and partnership.

But the big problems can't of course be tackled without starting with the small things, and I don't think I can sort out my issues with partnered sex without sorting out the issues I have with my solitary sexual behaviour.

[Heather]

Okay! I just wanted to check in with that to make sure that the timing here felt right for you. It's hard enough to start tackling some of our most challenging things when the time does feel right: it tends to feel debilitating and much more overwhelming when it doesn't.

I agree, it really sounds like starting out with your own self, and your own sexual life with yourself, is the best way to go here.

I'm about to head out for a rare few days off -- what are "days off?" I hardly know, and it's my own damn fault! -- but whether this is something you pick up with me or someone else here, I think it seems like a good time to check in with you about how you think we can best help you here, and what you really want from us. I don't want to get into a habit of throwing a lot of theories and ideas at you without feeling like I have a very strong sense of what you're looking for and what you actually want. Goodness knows the last thing you need is another person being or feeling like an invader in your sexuality.

[IthilienDude]

Heather,

Days off are a precious resource: make the most of it!

Thanks for your response! I think for me it's just helpful to have somewhere that I can hop ideas off people to help clarify my own thoughts, and that's why I find this forum helpful. It's good to have an environment where these topics aren't taboo, which is hard to find at home. It's been great the last few days on here!

[Redskies]

IthilienDude, I'm also offering a giant internet hug your way. I'm so sorry these various people put you through what they did and left you with these massively hard feelings. Although I'm so glad that Scarleteen has been able to be here for you and help!

I wanted to say something about the part where you said you "seem incapable of having any kind of constructive, safe, or at least non-dysfunctional sexual experiences". I certainly get feeling that way at this point, I so do, and I'm also not underestimating the impact of your childhood experiences. I do want to observe, though, that in what you described about interactions with those crappy men, I'm hearing plenty of places where you were trying very hard to have safe and functional experiences, and they were the ones who were creating and driving the screwed-up stuff. I'm hearing those experiences not so much as you being "incapable" of creating and living something functional, but them pushing dysfunction on you and not allowing you to be safe and functional.

People who've been abused before, or who have a very unsafe or dysfunctional background around sexuality, can sometimes repeatedly wind up with exploitative or abusive people, yes. That can be about accidentally (less often, deliberately and consciously) picking someone who behaves or relates in a familiar (eg, unhealthy) way, or about subconsciously seeking someone who treats us in a poor way that matches our own low self-esteem. There's another part to it, though: exploitative people seem to have radar for people who they might be able to exploit, and they deliberately pick and pursue their targets. What happens, as a whole, is less us being broken and messing up, and more them going out of their way to make things worse. After all, further abuse doesn't happen simply because it's familiar to us: it takes someone else to want to and decide to behave in abusive ways. We can't cause or create that just by being our own - if injured - self.

Pretty consistently, the ways those men behaved to you seems very targeted towards humiliation and shame, which of course were your vulnerable spots. I'm so sorry - the ways they behaved are damn shameful. I'm very conscious of not overstepping into your personal space here, but if it helps you to know, an ex of mine also assaulted me publicly. I think it's a little more common as a tactic than it might at first seem, because yes, that's certainly going to push the assaulted person's control and shame and self-doubt and self-blame buttons. Explicit shame, blame and gas-lighting too? - that's pretty vile behaviour.

Again, putting some thoughts out there: it seems to me that you're doing very well indeed in feeling able to talk about some of these experiences from such a shame-y background. Of course, no pressure to do anything or move at any particular speed - whatever feels manageable and right for you is the right speed! Just wanted you to know that where I'm sitting, you're pretty darn impressive.

[IthilienDude]

Redskies,

Yeah it's been pretty difficult, but I'm grateful for the resource that you guys offer!

I suppose when you put it in those terms, I realise that maybe I give myself too much of a hard time over my input into relationships. My emotional baseline is "it's my fault!" pretty much consistently, so I'm really, really, really easy to gaslight. I'm an emotional manipulator's dream! I come to them primed for abuse.

The problem for me is I find it very difficult to discern when things go from functional to dysfunction because the transition can be so subtle, and I also question my own perception. A little part of me is like "I think things are going pear shaped", but then another part of me will go "Well that's just because you're a cynic who thinks everything's screwed anyway", so I doubt my instinct and brush it off as pessimism.

Hmm, I agree with that whole concept for unconsciously seeking new abusers. As I get older, I reflect more and more on my choice of guys. I know there's an adage that's as old as the hills that women 'date their fathers' and men 'date their mothers', but in some regards its true: I date men who are unpredictable, emotionally distant, have a point to prove, and controlling, which is what my father is like.

But the other side of that -- expoliters seeking people to exploit -- never really occurred to me until recently, literally within the last few weeks. It was my choir leader who mentioned it when I told her about my experiences of assault and abuse. When she explained how abusers will do anything to lull you into a false sense of security and then turn nasty, something inside me started screaming out in vindicated rage: it was like everything made sense all of a sudden, and that I actually hadn't been mad all along.

I'm sorry that you had that experience with that ex. I read a statistic that -- here in Ireland anyway -- one in four women is assaulted by a romantic partner, or suffers domestic violence, and it terrifies me that it's such an issue here, and that there are so few resources here to support these women.

Thank you very much: it's taken me a long time to push myself out of my comfort zone with regards to talking about my experiences, hopes, and fears. My friend -- who I mentioned before: the one who brought me round the sex shops -- was the person who kinda prompted it all, for which I'm grateful, even if we're not friends anymore (we ended up having a bit of a thing, she then got engaged to my brother, and that ended horribly, and she and I don't talk anymore. But it was nice while it lasted!)

[Redskies]

You've talked about not being allowed your own boundaries as a child/young person, and how the people around you acted like it would be a very wrong thing for you to have and enforce your own boundaries. That kind of conditioning can be very hard to break, and it's not surprising that you'd carry the lessons you learned there forward into your life and (romantic) relationships. You basically learned to push down and ignore your own instincts because that's what they taught and showed you to do. if your instincts have been suggesting to you that something wasn't right before it turned out to be indeed definitely not right, the good news is that they're all still there and in working order, and working to help and protect you. The thing to figure out, of course, is how to honour and act on those feelings and instincts, and that you do indeed have the right to do so.

Your choir leader sounds absolutely golden! What was it that made you think she might be a safe person to share what you did with her, and a good or appropriate person to talk to about these things? You obviously made a very good selection there, and it probably has some useful information about what you look for in a safe, healthy person, and what it feels like to move forward with them as opposed to someone unsafe or unhealthy.

You've also said you're a very sensual person. Are there experiences in your life where you notice and act on things that feel good and don't feel good for you, that isn't stressful or loaded for you? For example, perhaps in your taekwondo experience, you might have experienced feeling good and strong sometimes, and at others have felt that you were tired or at the limit of your abilities and some moves were no longer the safest right then?

[IthilienDude]

Redskies,

Yes, those experiences did have a profound effect on me growing up, and continue to do so. But the issue I now have as an adult is not knowing what is 'gut instinct' and what is 'over-thinking'. Anxiety has a habit of messing with your mind.

I'll take and example. When I was in the early stages of courtship with my last boyfriend, my brain was at war with itself over the inevitable question of 'does he like me/doesn't he like me', and I would often mistake my anxious confidence lacking thoughts for gut instincts about his level of interest. My brain would be going 'he hasn't messaged you in this many days/he's only hugged you and not done anything else/he hasn't made any definite moves/oh, he's just being friendly and you're reading into it too much', while my gut was going 'but when I'm with him, the chemistry is there/we have good fun together and enjoy each other's company', and too often I would get those mixed up and think the doubting thoughts were instinct, and the positive thoughts were me trying to fool myself.

This plays merry havoc with my ability to date effectively because I'm always second guessing people, and then I'm not able to talk to anyone about it because nobody wants to hear it. I get so full of doubt, and so anxious, and there's no-one to have a nice objective chat with to put it into perspective. Dating culture here is so enveloped in shame that nobody even gets enjoyment out of having girly chats about early stages of dating without feeling the need to catastrophise it and talk about all the ways it could go really wrong or how one could be kidding themselves. (Yes: we're a cynical bunch of people who are incapable of talking about feelings, us Irish). I've ended many relationships before they've even started by not being able to play the game properly and confidently.

This is why I usually defer all decisions to the other party, and leave myself wide open for exploitation, because I just don't feel I can trust my own thoughts and feelings. I don't know if that will ever go away.

In regards to your taekwondo question, there isn't a single thing I do in life that's not loaded with some kind of shame or self-judgment. There have been times where I've not gone to training because I'm like "What's the point? Who cares? I'll never be able to do it. Nobody wants me there", and there are times where I've not gone to choir because of those doubts too. Even things I used to do for fun -- like drawing, baking, playing musical instruments, reading, making short films, writing, etc. -- I'm unable to do because I'm paralysed by self-doubt and fear of judgment. I'm afraid that when I do anything there's a panel of people waiting for me to finish so they can hold up the score cards. This fear pervades EVERYTHING I DO. Because of this, my days are repeating cycles of get up five minutes before having to leave for work, go to work, go to any evening activities such as training or rehearsals, go back to where I live and either a) zone out in front of the TV, or b) go to bed, no matter what time of day it is.

As a child, you could be guaranteed that you'd find my upside down in a bush or a puddle somewhere, or picking up little crawling things, or drawing pictures of dinosaurs. I did most of these things even into my teen years, where my creativity just expanded and expanded. I'd spend hours in my room writing epic movie scripts, designing vast fantasy worlds and inventing languages and cultures to populate these alternate universes, and occupy myself with editing bits of video and sound that I'd recorded with my little camera. I was always creating, and experiencing the world through all my senses; at the time, I felt like I had about 200 senses.

Art school destroyed that joy (good old institutional bullying from staff), and then escalating family dysfunction, depression, parental alcoholism, eating disorders, and deliberate self harm took over my life. Even though I don't harm myself anymore, those other things are a continuing problem (with the addition of my brother's addiction to cannabis). I'm at a point in my life where going an entire day without thinking about suicide is a real achievement, let alone doing something that brings me joy of any kind. Right now, I'm basically surviving, even though as a 25 year old I should really be getting on with life.

So if something as simple as drawing a picture for the sake of enjoyment is an insurmountable task for me on most days, the thought of engaging in sexual self-pleasure is mostly out of the question, especially if I'm attempting to make it a nice experience. I feel I have to make it a shameful experience to able to justify it as an action, and if that's not mental I don't know what is.

[IthilienDude]

(I'm not 100% sure that actually answered your question: it was more of a ramble =3)

[Stephanie]

IthilienDude: I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to also jump into this discussion. First and foremost, I'd like to also add to the chain of hugs that is growing. You have a strength you don't even realize you possess, and I hope in time you realize how amazing your fight really is.

I see that you've gone for help with working through the experiences your previous partners put you through. I'm sorry you were met with a waiting list, but know that's huge to go and seek out help. It just goes to show the fight you possess.

Reading how you have such anxiety and fears to work through with things you enjoy (and I'm sorry if I missed or misremember your posts) have you ever thought of looking into counseling to help you work through those anxieties and negative feelings? It's possible you'll find if you can start seeing things you do (if not all a greater deal of them) as positive and meaningful, you'll then be more equipped to see yourself physically as a healthy person with valid sexual feelings that can be explored in a healthy way. And I want to reconfirmed what Heather and Redskies have said, it has not been anything wrong with you rather with the people you were with and their unfair and inappropriate treatments. Nobody should force another to feel like they have to agree to anything, it's not how healthy relationships should work.

One of the biggest parts of being able to work on your healthier sexual self, comes in learning to be comfortable and happy with yourself as a person first. Knowing you can validate that you're worthy, that you deserve to be happy and feel good- and you DO deserve that and you ARE worthy, but it can't come from someone else it has to be something you know, feel and believe. Even if that means working on those positive comments with everything you do. Looking at a picture you draw and saying "wow, I did this. It's perfect- and it's all mine." Or when you take a bath, "I am an amazing person, and I deserve to pamper myself for that"

[Sunshine]

Another virtual hug from me!

Seriously, you sound like an amazing, strong, intelligent, reflective person and you deserve none of the shit that has happened to you.

I second Stephanie's advice on giving yourself positive feedback. Just in case you are like me and find it difficult to be really enthusiastic about yourself and your achievements, you could start out with baby steps like "I am okay" rather than "I am amazing", and work your way up from there gradually.

[IthilienDude]

Stephanie, and Sunshine,

Thank you both for your responses! It's always very nice to come online and see a reply waiting for me, plus I'm liking having somewhere where there are hugs waiting for me, too ^_^

The problem with our health system is that most mental health services -- whether specific or general -- are very difficult to find, or very expensive. I could go to a counsellor if I wanted to help me sort out all my stuff, but here an hour with a counsellor can cost up to €90 ($100), and they have waiting lists left-right-and-centre. There are a few NGO counselling services, but again some of them have waiting lists of up to 18 months. All of the work I have done has been via self-help, or crisis intervention from the national health service after I was hospitalised from self-injury.

I understand that all this 'I'm grand, sure' stuff has to come from within, but I rely so heavily on the esteem of others to justify my existence. There's a part of me that's afraid of becoming self-sufficient: I feel like in doing that, I'm surrendering to assuming a life of solitude; I'm admitting that I'll never get the love and support I need from someone else, and I'm having to resort to doing it myself. I know that's not true, but it feels like failure. Having a someone has for years been such a solid part of my identity -- my life goals, as it were -- that I feel like I'll have to change my whole personality and everything I want out of life, and that I won't be me anymore.

[Stephanie]

A lot of this is going to have to come on baby steps. If you look at the whole picture, then yes- it will certainly seem like you're leaving yourself behind and becoming someone else. That's not something anyone wants, for you or themselves.

A hard part in this is going to be through understanding how to be okay with you first, before you can be okay with anyone else. And that's not failure; it's empowerment. When you learn that you don't need someone else to be happy, then you learn how to be okay with who you are as a person. It helps and feels good to be validated by others, but we all also have to learn to validate ourselves. you have to now how worthwhile you are, and how special the things you can do are- and have to learn to work in being able to notice that about yourself. It makes you stronger as an individual, happier on a holistic scale. So let's try in baby steps- can you pick one thing you want to do today that you can compliment yourself on? Take for instance drawing a picture. You draw one picture then really look at it and tell yourself how wonderful it really is. Even if it's just "hey, this is better than I thought I could do" or "I'm okay with this drawing." If you can do that know a day, you can eventually do it twice a day. Then you're not becoming someone new, you're transforming into a happier you.

[Heather]

Just a quickie from me about finding counseling: have you, by any chance, contacted any of the rape crisis centres in Ireland? I'm not sure where you are, otherwise I'd have gone ahead and found what's closest to you and provided contact information here. But if you use a search engine and put in "rape crisis counseling" and then your city, you should be able to find the centre nearest to you.

I ask because a lot of what you're finding you are suffering with impacts of is sexual and interpersonal abuse, and you may be able to get counseling that way that's not only at no cost to you, but is also coming from people with specific training in giving support and help to survivors from a strong place of advocacy. Double bonus, big time.

[IthilienDude]

Stephanie,

I'm slowly doing things to make myself feel better, but it's slow work. Like, yesterday I decided to do one small thing -- I decided to assert myself in a relationship where I feel disrespected -- and afterwards I was so depressed I felt like throwing myself off the bridge (although, it's worth pointing out that I was premenstrual, and I always feel suicidally depressed after the tiniest things in the week before my period: I'm hopefully getting that checked out by the doctor soon). Part of my mind got furious and dejected when I decided to take a stand against someone, even in a tiny way: it wasn't even confrontational. It's because of these internal backlashes I don't feel like changing things.

I realised this conversation has strayed very far from the original topic, but I suppose all these things are related to each other. Looking inwards is something I really don't want to do, because it's Hell in there. I've become an adult I really don't like very much, and can't be bothered to look after or nurture in any way; at this point I feel like I'm just counting the days until I'm dead and gone. I was so sure of myself when I was a teenager -- I knew what I liked, what I wanted, who I was -- but between 18 and 25 I got lost somehow. For the last 7 years nothing has been stable enough to build a foundation on: changing social circles, growing family dysfunction, illness, job instability, etc., have really got between me and focusing on bettering myself.

This masturbation issue is just symptomatic of my whole spiritual malaise, but it does concern me. Like all things. My inability to hold onto partners, or attract anyone's interest, or attract only abusive nutters, on top of my inability to take care of myself is simply adding insult to injury at this point, and it was frustrating me, and continue to do so.

I find that when I'm faced with periods of uncertainty, I try to cling onto things and try and control everything; put all my ducks in a row, as it were. When my life is uneasy, I try to impose superficial changes: change the way I walk to work, wear different clothes, go on more dates, go on more nights out etc., and in a way manufacture what feels like change, but sometimes get frustrated my how slow the change is and try and speed it up, thus forcing things. This forcing of things makes them break, and then I'm back at square one. I'm not patient, by any stretch of the imagination! =P

Heather,

I did, and most of them have 12 month waiting lists. I did, however, visit my GP today to tell him that I'm suffering with all these issues. He wrote me a referral to the psychiatric out patient ward in my city, so I should hear from them in a few weeks. In the meantime, he gave me the number of the crisis nurse in the city hospital if I feel like I need help urgently.

[Heather]

And maybe go ahead and get on one of those waiting lists? After all, in 12 months, there you'll be, with the option to have that kind of counseling for free. If you have something else by then, you can just say no. On the other hand, that wait stays at 12 months forever if you don't get on the list.

P.S. I'd like to just say a wee bit about the idea that you're "attracting" abusive people, as if this was mostly about you. By all means, any of us can sometimes learn to do a bit better at screening, but I assure you, abusive people are usually just opportunistic, and what they're looking for is the opportunity to abuse. But that's not about anyone they do abuse attracting them, or it somehow being on you that they seek out that opportunity with you, as they probably already have with others, and if not, will with others.

I just hate to hear you taking any of this on like you having been abused is about some deficit or flaw on your part, rather than about you simply having had the misfortune of being someone -- as so many of us have been, myself included -- who happened to intersect with someone(s) abusive and wound up involved with them without seeing it -- as again, so often people won't -- coming or recognizing it for a while.