How much is too much?

[Holmesgirl]

I am a 25 year old female who has never had intercourse. I have been taught to save intercourse for marriage due to my Christian upbringing, and intend to stick with that. However, my boyfriend and I explore other expressions of sexuality like making out, and I play with his nipples. Normally I have a boundary against anything involving the genitals. Last night we were both really turned on, and while we were spooned, I let him grind on my butt until he came. I feel guilty about it because I crossed a boundary. Did we have sex, and did I do something wrong? Im going to tell him I'm not comfortable doing that anymore for the time being, but I hope it doesn't make him feel guilty too. I know sexuality isn't bad or shameful, I just believe in saving it for marriage. But there is definitely some internalized shame from the way I grew up. As far as my upbringing, the lines are murky. Any type of penetrative intercourse is supposed to be saved for marriage, but other things are a gray area. The general advice is "don't start the car if you don't intend to go anywhere" because one thing leads to another and you could end up pregnant. So I have a hard time deciding what's okay for us to do and what's not. I want more sexual experiences with him but I feel guilty if it's "too much." help.

[Heather]

Hey there, Holmesgirl. I'm sorry that you had to wait overnight for help with this, feeling like you were. Thanks for your patience, and I hope you're doing okay this morning.

I think one of the trickiest parts of all this is that defining sex gets very complicated once some kinds of religion are involved, because the way some religions define sex and the way sex tends to go in actual life tend to be very divergent. For example, defining sex as something centered around reproduction, as some religions and belief systems (including yours, from the sounds of it) tend to do is very divorced from the realities of most peoples sexual lives, which are very rarely centered around that. Even people who subscribe to those belief systems rarely only engage in sex, of any kind, for the purposes of reproduction, for instance, within marriage, or do so without using any kind of family planning. Of course, even the idea that intercourse is for marriage and everything else is murky is murky, because to the best of my knowledge, and I've studied this stuff a lot, it's really not said what kinds of sex are for marriage and what kinds aren't anywhere clearly. (It probably doesn't help that the people who wrote religious doctrines were hardly ever average joes like the rest of us.)

So. In reality, expressing our sexualities together is having sex in real-life, outside religion reality, and that can include anything from making out to erotic massage to dry humping to genital intercourse to...who knows. Truly, there are so many ways to be sexual (AKA, to "have sex") it boggles the mind. Is any or all of that what the Bible means when it talks about who lies with who? Who freaking knows. Seriously, who knows: no one can say because it literally is not at all clear, not in the original text, not in any accurate translation. Everything else is very subjective interpretation. But also in reality where our limits and boundaries are with this -- what we like and don't, want to do and don't, and for what reasons, are also highly variable. Wherever you want to draw lines? You get to do that, for any reason, including for no reason other than that it's what feels right for you at the time.

You know what you did together was sexual: it felt sexual for both of you, it sounds like, and it was about sexual feelings and desires. I don't think you did anything wrong. But I also honor how you feel about it, for whatever reason that is, even if that was for no reason at all. It sounds like you don't feel good about it right now, and -- for now, at least -- it isn't something you want to do again. It sounds to me like, at the very least, you have some feelings you need to process and some things you need to think and talk through, with him, maybe with someone else like me or others, to try and work out what's right for you, and you need some time, space and permission to do that. It sounds like you also need to figure out how to talk about how to communicate doing something together that crosses your boundaries -- I assume he asked for your consent with this, but if he didn't, then there's another sphere of this we should likely talk about, you should figure out how you feel about, and you should talk about together. I hope you can give space for all of that to yourself.

How does all of that feel as a place to start?

[Holmesgirl]

It's true that the Bible does not define or describe specific sex acts and what's okay and what's not, that I know of. Some churches I've attended said even kissing outside of marriage is sin. I disagree with that. Some said anything done for sexual pleasure, including making out or massage, are fornication. I'm not sure on that, since as you said the Bible doesn't give specifics. But I am comfortable with making out and want to continue doing that. Thank you for the reminder that I have permission to define my boundaries how I am comfortable. In some ways I'm still figuring that out.

He usually asks for consent verbally. In this case it was more of implicit consent because when he started grinding, I pressed up against him, encouraging him to continue. I don't feel like he made me do it or anything. I do prefer verbal consent though, because it helps me be more mindful of my decisions.

Taking some time to process sounds like a great idea. I did tell my boyfriend that I wasn't comfortable with that right now, and he said that's okay and that my boundaries are important to him.

I had a good old fashioned freak-out this morning though. This brought up other worries about sex. Between my upbringing and my anxiety disorder and my aversion to penetration and the fact that I identify as Grey asexual, I am not sure if I'll ever be able to have vaginal sex. I throw up when I even try to insert a tampon. I'm afraid that this is gonna be a problem in our relationship and either he'll leave over it or I'll feel pressured to have sex. He said he's not leaving and he hasn't tried to get me to have sex so far, but I'm still concerned.

[Heather]

I'm really glad to hear you have so much clarity about what you want and need right now. I know you're managing a lot of big, scary feelings, but I hope you can give yourself some serious credit for being able to have that kind of clarity in the midst of them, because that's not easy to do. I'm also really glad to hear that it sounds like you and your boyfriend are doing okay, and that he's hearing you when it comes to your needs with this.

In terms of this last bit here, is this something you want to talk about now? I ask because it just sounds like something that's projected pretty far into the future, and something that carries a lot of anxiety with it, when you already seem to have an awful lot on your plate already. I'm happy to talk about it if you want, I just also want to be sure to be an advocate for you taking good care of yourself in all of this.

[Holmesgirl]

Thank you for the support and encouragement. I do want to talk about it some. My concerns are pretty far in the future, because intercourse is only on the table if we get married, and right now we're not even engaged yet. He respects my beliefs about waiting and my boundaries. But he said the fear or aversion I have towards penetrative sex doesn't seem healthy and he thinks I should see a therapist about it. Do you agree? I don't think there's anything wrong with me if I don't want to have sex. But when I want and choose to do something, and then afterwards feel really bad about it, that's not enjoyable at all, and I don't want it to affect us negatively. Not being able to use a tampon or get a pap is also inconvenient. Do you think those are things I should get therapy about? I don't want to talk to a therapist that is going to disrespect my beliefs about waiting, or that denies asexuality exists (whether it applies to me or not, it is as valid as any other sexuality but often goes unrecognized or misunderstood). That may be something I get to in therapy eventually, but there are other more immediate topics concerning my anxiety, family, etc that I feel need to be addressed sooner.

[Heather]

Okay.

So, I don't think that there's a normal when it comes to wanting to have the kind of sex where something goes inside the vagina or not wanting it. I don't see any reason that that would be something we could or should consider any more normal or abnormal than we do wanting or not wanting sex with something in one's anus, something in one's throat, or something in between one's toes. These are all preferences. There is no one sexual normal with what we want or don't, like or don't.

The only reason any of us may think of sex with vaginal entry as "normal" or a default essential is because we learned that a) reproduction is essential and normal and vaginal sex is a requirement of that (even though it isn't), and b) we understand that for heterosexual people to be considered normal by the standards of heterosexuality, vaginal sex is also required. But the thing is, those are constructs, and they're also products of patriarchal culture. People don't have to have that kind of sex to reproduce, and people also don't have to reproduce period, if they don't want to (or can't: it's not like people who can't aren't okay and valuable as people, too, after all). People also can be heterosexual and not want or engage in vaginal sex. There's a lot to unpack with the way heterosexuality was constructed under patriarchy, but ultimately, all heterosexuality is about is about feeling most of your attraction to people of a different gender than you. That has nothing to do with what kind of sex people decide to have with each other.

Know what I mean? I know that's all a lot, but there's a lot all wrapped up in this stuff, thousands of years of history's worth.

I won't lie: I'm not thrilled that it sounds like your boyfriend is pathologizing the whole of this when you seem very clear to me that there are parts of this that do not feel problematic to you. But I think that's something we can circle back to, and also maybe something where it's just a matter of him doing some unpacking of his own beliefs about all this some.

In terms of the parts of this that are creating trouble for you -- the bad feelings, the barriers it's creating for you when it comes to something like healthcare and paps -- for sure, it makes sense to want to explore what you might be able to do when it comes to those things. A therapist could be the right person to start with, if you want, and I agree, by all means, you need someone who is affirming of your identity and your values. I'd be happy to help you come up with some screening questions around those things if you like.

Where do you want to take this from here?