My most recent ex: Was I Acephobic or just incompatible?

[BuddyBoi21]

Okay so buckle in because everything that I will vent about here is very long and kinda messy. Also thank you to the staff here who's been seeing me post about my relationships for the last few years.

Okay so if I'm being "nice and logical" to myself about how my most recent relationship ended it would be that my ex and I had different wants/needs that inherently contradicted the other person's wants/needs and just led to an inevitable end of our relationship. If I'm struggling, I feel like it's my fault solely because I have bipolar disorder and was self medicating and not in therapy during our relationship and I was acephobic. "In my defense" with not having therapy or proper meds, I'm a black queer person and dropped my last therapist because they were extremely invalidating to my trauma and anger surrounding issues around race and one of my parents. With the last psychartrist I had before my most recent one I was also heavily invalidated on a situation involving racism and was even put on a med as a response because of my "anger issues". Note: I and everyone mentioned are 21+. I would use a legal substance when I got off work, would never drive under the influence and was just all around a silly dork or at worse just really anxious when I wasn't sober. The medication that I was on previously virtually stopped working which is (part of) why I had turned to self medicating.

Anyway so I was in a queer platonic relationship that was polyamorous. I had strong romantic feelings for a romance-favorable aromantic asexual person. She was in a relationship that (to my knowledge) wasn't categorized as a queer platonic realtionship with my (then) metamour another allosexual alloromantic person. Throughout the relationships she was trying her best to figure out her ace identitites and manage dating me and my meta. So uhhh there was a quite a bit of miscommunication that left a very rocky foundation for the queer platonic relationship between myself and her. She was doing her best to explain her experience with being aromantic and what that looked like between the two relationships when we initially started dating. She also did her best to reassure me that while the love (or whather you wanna call it because it feels very arbitrary and confusing now) she experienced between myself and my meta were different that they were both still the same level of importance.

Big problem was the wording she chose initially didn't get internalized correctly in my brain. In the beginning to describe her feelings towards me, she would say things like "I love you like my best friend" and "I wanna kiss you like my best friend" while also describing that the feelings she experienced with my meta were using the "It's all greek to me" analogy where it seems (to what I did my best to understand) she was saying she could spend hours with him without needing a social recharge along with various other things that society would say is synonymous with romantic relationships. There was also a boundary that really felt painful for me. She and my meta would engage in forms of intimacy (like kissing and sex) that weren't allowed in our relationship for the first two months. We still cuddled and hugged and went on dates but we didn't kiss or have sex. At the time I thought the boundary existed because she didn't want to make him uncomfortable but it turns out she was trying to sort through some trauma and didn't want to feel guilty after doing any of these other things with me.

When I thought my meta was the reason why I just felt like shit. She would still tell me that she wanted to kiss me and I would always internally reel, "then why don't you???" but I never said anything because consent and I never want anyone to feel obligated to do anything with me. It just hurt a lot though. I was angry and frustrated with either my meta or myself. I felt upset with myself because I hated that in my own mind I felt things like hand holding and cuddling were just as important as kissing and sex and that this was how I set apart my platonic relationships from my romantic ones. I also felt angry at myself that I felt so upset when I saw them kiss and experienced excessive anger/jealousy. It also made it exceedingly difficult to reassure me that I was just as important as my meta on top of everything else. I even remember how she didn't feel comfortable calling me her boyfriend and preferred "squash" and I got the term "squish-iversary". It's cute and nice but with my meta being called "boyfriend"/"future husband" and receiving terms like "anniversary" it again added on to feeling like I was secondary and that made it exceedingly difficult to being seen as his equal. On some of the worst days in my head I felt like I was "third-wheeling in my own relationship" (a gross monogamous lens on a polyamorous relationship I know). I did my best to accept things as they were (basically suffered quietly) and it eventually came out that no one was doing all too well with how things were going (I have no idea what was going on in their relationship but apparently my meta wasn't entirely well either).

Eventually things got worked out but I still struggled to feel secure within our relationship. There were things that I had to learn to cope with (as best as I could) that I knew I would never have (either at all or at "first"). I knew they could have a kid that's biologically tied to both of them, they would be moving in together being surrounded by my meta's family and being nesting partners first, in regards to sex they could "fluid-swap" and my body being both trans and vaguely tied a bit more to masculinity felt extra shitty about that one.

I still felt very much "second rate" for quite a bit.

Things basically suffered further once our relationship went long distance and she moved in with my meta. For the remainder of our relationship I was (and still am) severely depressed. I missed her being physically with me. A lot of our dates (if we had any) basically became pseudo-therapy sessions. Scheduling quality time was difficult because I worked nights and she ran errands during the day. It also became even more difficult when it turned out my ex was a part of a system. I didn't mind spending time with one of the other headmates but I stopped deliberately planning dates because I knew one or both of us would end up to busy or too overwhelmed by mental health to fully engage with one another or even attend the date at all and would ultimately end up cancelling.

She broke things off and I wasn't gonna "fight her" on it. Hell, I even agreed on the things she mentioned when she asked me about what I wanted for my life if things were ideal (like if I had money and my brain wasn't getting kicked around by bipolar disorder).

In the message she ultimately told me she was unhappy, didn't see any signs of things improving quickly enough and didn't feel comfortable with me building my life around her and felt she couldn't properly support me in the ways I needed.

This was at the beginning of this month. The relationship barely lasted 4 months and I feel like trash. And I just sit and think about all of my behaviors. I feel like a lot of the things I wanted in this relationship and how I felt/acted, especially in the beginning, were all inherently acephobic. It also felt jarring that toward the end (like the last month) of this relationship she did start calling me her boyfriend because she felt more comfortable with it and she even asked something along the lines of "Would it still be wrong or weird of me to say I love you?" before I quickly hung up on our breakup call. I wasn't angry at all. Just a big emotional ow and the minute I hung up the phone I started sobbing profusely. I feel like I couldn't even allow myself to enjoy being called her boyfriend or hearing I love you at times because I felt like this went against what she felt comfortable with (comparing to the beginning of our relationship) and her experience as an aroace person.

I also question whether or not I'm actually polyamorous (regardless of choice or orientation) or have deep-seated trust issues. I don't want to try and figure that out in the context of a relationship of any kind because as I've given myself the chance to think about it in small bursts (and try not to feel like complete garbage) I feel like the "problem" in all of my "failed" relationships is me. Sure if I've felt my needs were satisfied I could comfortably and confidently pursue other relationships it felt like but I couldn't actually do that or act on these sexual desires because that would be cheating (since I was in monogamous relationships at the time kf having these thoughts).

When I look over everything, a big part of me wishes this most recent relationship didn't happen because I feel like I caused a lot of unnecessary pain to this person. I've known this person for years and I have a lot of anxiety in regards to how the concept of a friendship (or lack thereof) could look between us after all of this. On one hand yes, I wanna be close friends still but on another I know for a fact there are things I have done in this relationship that she's still upset for and I feel undeserving of a place in this person's life.

If you've managed to read all of this, thank you for reading I hope all of this made sense. If anyone has any comments or thoughts on what I've shared then please feel free to respond.

[Sam W]

Hi BuddyBoi21,

I have to head out soon, and I want your post to get a thoughtful response. But I wanted to let you know this had been seen and that I'm going to leave a note in our staff channel about it so it doesn't get buried.

[BuddyBoi21]

Thank you Sam!
Also I apologize about lacking the appropriate tags/CWs for this post. I hope you and the rest of the staff are well and I'll do my best to appropriately tag future replies. Thanks again <3

[Sofi]

Hi BuddyBoi, nice to hear from you.
I want to start by addressing your comments about why you dropped your last therapist. NO therapist, psychiatrist, or any mental health (or, any kind of health) professional should ignore or even worse invalidate your experiences with racism and issues regarding race in general. That is unacceptable and I don't blame you for dropping them, you deserve better than that. It might be good to "vet" therapists from the beginning (to see how they respond to certain topics around race), I know as a POC I do that because it's important to me that they are understanding and supportive of ALL my experiences. Is this something you think you could do from now on?

Now, as far as you blaming yourself for how the relationship went down, I invite you to find a balance between taking accountability but not placing blame on yourself for a situation that involved more than one person. It's always okay for you to have boundaries, needs and wants. While it's important to recognize when we're being (for example/in this case) acephobic, I wouldn't say that's what's going on here, based on the information I have. You're allowed to place importance on kissing and sex without that being inherently acephobic, and it sounds more like there was a disconnect between you two beyond just physical needs.

I do agree with you that a relationship isn't really the right space to work through trust issues, and I applaud you for recognizing and admitting that. Whether you're actually polyamorous or not is an important question for you to figure out, but not as important as figuring out what you want in a relationship, how to trust your partner, what your boundaries are, and of course, some self love. Then you can see if you're ready for a poly relationship or if it's not what you want, which is okay too! And while jealousy is normal and we all experience it, there's a way it can be healthy, but it sounds like there was definitely some unhealthy jealousy in that relationship which isn't a good sign that you're fully comfortable with the dynamic. You have every right to seek a relationship that fits you and makes you feel comfortable, safe, and loved - whatever that means to YOU.

Lastly, I know you know this, but I have to say it because I care (and as someone with bipolar disorder too)- medication is super important as part of treatment, but even more importantly, please do NOT self medicate, even if it's tempting. It can be detrimental to your mental health and take you so many steps back. I'd be glad to help you find a better psychiatrist, because I want you to be able to get the proper medication so you can get to a better space. <3

[Mo]

Hi BuddyBoi,

I'm sorry that the end of this relationship has been so stressful for you. Sofi touches on this above, but I wanted to highlight one part of your post in particular. You say "I feel like a lot of the things I wanted in this relationship and how I felt/acted, especially in the beginning, were all inherently acephobic."

The picture I'm getting, from what you've written here, is that physical intimacy is important to you in a relationship, and that you were sad or upset that it wasn't part of your relationship with your ex. It sounds like it was also frustrating or upsetting to know your ex was having sex with another partner and not with you, and that you didn't always feel like you/your relationship were a priority. These are very understandable things to feel sad about! It isn't acephobic to be someone who wants and enjoys sex, or to want a sexual component to a relationship. Sometimes people who have very different wants and desires around sex can find ways to make a relationship work despite this mismatch, but at other times it's enough of a conflict point to make sustaining a relationship hard.

It sounds like there were a lot of moments in which your ex used language to describe your relationship and what she wanted from it that was confusing or uncomfortable. I don't know if those feelings were ever something you addressed directly with her, but I do think there's plenty of room in a relationship to ask a clarifying question without that indicating pressure or a disrespect for consent. When she said she wanted to kiss you, it would have been just fine to respond with something like "I'd like to kiss you too, can we do that now?" or "you said before that you didn't want kissing to be part of our relationship, but I'd love to discuss it if something's changed on your end."

As someone who struggles to initiate tough conversations or bring up problems in a relationship, I can understand the impulse to "suffer quietly," as you put it, through a situation that isn't working for me, but in the long term I just don't think this can lead to good outcomes. If a relationship or relationship structure is leaving you feeling like you aren't a priority or otherwise bad about the whole situation, then I think it's vital that you bring it up when you can.

Ultimately, to me it sounds like what you wanted and needed to feel prioritized and cared for in a relationship didn't line up with what she was willing or able to provide. That doesn't mean that what either of you wanted was wrong. Even if you need to take some space from each other for a bit, I hope you can continue to be friends in the long term if that's what you both want.

[BuddyBoi21]

Hey Sofi,

So on the topic of vetting, I'm going to try and see if I can weed people out ahead of time so I can avoid doing that if I can help it. In general, I'm extremely low on energy/spoons to have to directly poke and prod the folks I'm seeking care from. Although I'm aware it's not guaranteed I try to ask for recs from black/brown POC and am doing my best to research and seek care from only black practitioners (again if I can help it). I have heard an interesting phrase in the past few years, "Not all skin folk are kin folk" so I am aware that just because a person may be black (or POC) themselves doesn't mean they will understand my needs.

On the topic of the acephpbia, I agree. The problem is, I find it difficult to sort through currently because there are aspects of the dynamic that I think back to that just seem off. Whatever exactly is going on is feeding negatively from one thing into another. I felt upset with myself that the way my ex expressed her feelings towards me wasn't fulfilling my needs (as well as not being able to be kissed or have sex for a certain period of time). This made her upset and feel insecure as an ace person and within our relationship. That who she was and what she had to offer wasn't "good enough" for me. She'd directly ask me if it was okay that she couldn't love me back in the same way I loved her and I said yes but also admitted that there was an uncontrollable pain that I felt in knowing that. I couldn't figure out what the emotion was exactly or why it was there. Logically, I knew everything was fine and she still cared about me so then why the hell was I still feeling some form of empty longing/pain??? There was also another time where she asked me if the next day she decided she never wanted to kiss me or my meta ever again would I be okay with it. I answered honestly and said no (as in like no, it wouldn't be great, it would hurt a lot) but I'd figure out another way to get my needs met (i.e. finding another partner who would kiss me). It's things like this "Is this good enough for you?", "Am I good enough for you?", etc that make me question whether or not I'm being realistic in what I want and/or need from a partner in a romantic relationship and whether or not what I wanted/needed with this person was disrespectful in relation to their identity.

Fun thing I'm realizing. I seem to carry on through life perfectly fine until I enter a romantic relationship. I look back at my past and I do a great job at being single. I can mentally avoid some of the heavier problems that effect my life on a deeper level pretty damn well until I enter a romantic relationship. I manage to keep people at an arm's length but have never been able to manage such a thing with a romantic partner. With the unhealthy jealousy, again I don't know. I don't have much of a reference point to go off of and honestly with how little my ex and my former meta seemed to show jealousy I felt like I wasn't supposed to be polyamorous or I was doing it terribly wrong.

I do appreciate it. I did eventually find a new psych. He's nice and my new meds are okay (I think?). I'm not really sure if they're working right or if I'm just validly feeling like garbage because there are so many things going on in the world and in my personal life on top of my mental health. Honestly the sad part is I wasn't exactly self-medicating on purpose. I decided to undo a lot of stigma in regards to the substance I chose and gave it a try in hopes it would help me feel less out of place at parties and when trying to date. And again, the sad part on top of it all is the medication I was on previously had virtually stopped working on its own. I'll do my best to avoid self-medicating in the future if I can help it.

[BuddyBoi21]

Hey Mo,

On your first point, I definitely remember you or one of the other staff members mentioning this before. Again, I feel (at least instinctually) frustrated with myself that I can't seem to be okay with less sex and/or (less of) other forms of physical affection. Sure I'm not too happy about it but it has made not only but now two of my exes feel like they aren't worth much more than sex. I feel like the things I want (and/or need) inherently hurt the people I care about and it's part of why I find it difficult to accept or prioritize these things about myself.

Yes, I'll admit when she was doing her best to describe her experience as an ace person I was confused as all hell. Then when we threw in the differences between the feelings between myself and my former meta it became not only more confusing but also painful. I honestly felt like if anyone else who had no context or understanding of anything and tried to understand her description they'd look at me and call me a secondary partner it seems.

I get what you're saying here about consent and checking in but from what I remember I believe it was a hard no on lip kisses and sex until further notice. And even if it weren't, with her preexisting trauma and already feeling insecure as an ace person it quite frankly felt like a can of worms I didn't want to think about opening even if I had wanted to consider it.

I guess so. I also hope that we can continue our friendship at some point...

[Sam W]

Hi BuddyBoi,

You know, from your description it sounds like part of what may be contributing to those feelings of guilt is that the language used in conversations with your ex was a lot of "would I still be good enough" or "would you still love me if..." framing. That language is already very loaded, doubly so when it comes to things like sex. Were you still with that person, I'd encourage you two to switch to frameworks like, "would we still be a good fit if.." or "would this relationship still give us both what we need if..." And using some of that framing might also help you as you sort out what happened in that relationship and what things, if any, you need to take accountability for.

Can I ask if both exes you mention were ace? Or both at least had a lower "sex drive" than you did? And when they expressed that they were feeling like they weren't worth much more than sex, what was the context of that conversation? What had been the dynamics around you (and they, for that matter) expressing desire for sex? What about for physical closeness?

I think it shows a lot of self-awareness to spot that jealousy is causing problems for you. It may very well be that, even if it's a relationship structure you really want, being poly just isn't on the table for you right now, but could be if you do some work on your own around jealousy and how to cope with it. Or, it may be that as you reflect more, you realize poly relationships just aren't a framework that fits your needs and preferences.

[BuddyBoi21]

Hi Sam,

Honestly I feel like the "Would we still be a good fit" would come with an obvious answer as much as it hurts. I wanted it to work out so badly but even if it my ex had looked at me and said "Tell me why we should still be together" I don't think I'd have much of a leg to stand on.

As far as I'm aware, the ex before my most recent one was not ace. I think (ironically enough) my most recent ex had a higher sex drive than the one before her. If I remember correctly my ex before this one it would be that I would try to initiate sex, they wouldn't be interested, it happened so frequently that I eventually stopped trying or the we would start to have sex and then have to stop at some point and a vast majority of the time I would masturbate afterward to get myself off. They felt bad that I wasn't getting off during sex or that we had so little sex and I did my best (basically making a poor comparison between them and my ex prior) to say that sex wasn't THAT important to me. So on top of their preexisting trauma from their previous ex I will admit that I added on to it.
With my most recent ex, she also had preexisting trauma from her previous relationship in which her ex seemed to make sex the primary form in which she'd actually receive attention. I had to reassure my ex that even though we weren't having sex that she was still considered an important partner to me or something along the lines of that. I enjoyed the physical closeness like cuddling and cheek kisses but I hated myself for feeling as though I needed more. I hate myself for wanting more.

I'll be quite frank that judging from my track record that a romantic relationship of any structure isn't for me right now. I can't seem to be happy with a singular person and the one time I was in a polayam dynamic, I was still unhappy. This is kinda what I mean when I say I am the problem. The worst part of my jealousy is that it's not like I could rationalize it away most times. I would uncontrollably feel like shit most times and not even know what to do about it. If I knew they had sex I would have to physically leave the shared living space. If I saw them kiss I'd have to figure out how to hide how I felt like garbage or try not to look at them directly. I would be extremely anxious about them accidentally having a kid and my ex would speak so excitedly about it at times while I was reeling about how to cope with my already shitshow mental health and jealousy on top of a kid that (by technicality) wouldn't even be mine. I feel like trash right now but I'm deeply aware that she made the right choice by dumping me and really now I'm trying to figure out how I can avoid making the same mistakes if I dare to even think about dating another person or how to make sure I never date anyone. I know it sounds extreme but I don't feel like I'm remotely stable enough for anyone to be involved with me in this way. Maybe someday I'll be fine but I struggle to feel like that change will come anytime soon.

[Siân]

Hi BuddyBoi,

I remember some of the conversations we had when you were dating your previous ex, and how hard you were trying to support them and be a caring partner whilst struggling with the fact that your needs weren't met. I'm hearing a lot of similar things here, along with new complexities from it being a whole new person, with a different identity and life history, in a different dynamic. I really hear how much you're beating yourself up, now and before, for wanting sex and physical intimacy but these are such deeply normal, deeply human wants to have! You get to want those things.

What if you gave yourself permission to want sex in your relationships? What if you gave yourself permission to have built into your desires in future relationships "sex is A shared priority" (not THE priority, but definitely one of them)? What if you gave yourself permission to say, even to yourself, "sex is an important part of relationships for me"?

We all have wants and needs in relationships, and it's okay if sex is one of them - in the same way that it's okay if sex isn't one of them. Looking for relationships with people for whom the sexual connection is also important is not being pushy, or reducing partners to just one thing, or a demand to always have at least X amount of sex. It's simply a recognition that this is one thing you can share and you'd like to be with someone who wants to work with you to create space for it. You've shown that you know how to respect people's boundaries, like in the conversation above about your recent exes kissing boundary, so I don't think you're about to go on a lust-fuelled rampage here. I think you can be kinder to yourself.

I hear you on the fact that you're working through a lot of things right now and aren't ready to jump straight into another relationship - I'm certainly not recommending that you do! - but perhaps one of the things this jealousy is trying to tell you is that there are things you need in a relationship that you weren't getting?

Doing the work of putting yourself back together is a great priority to have right now. I'm glad that you have a new psych and that your new meds are okay for now. Just so I have this straight - do you go to one person for meds and a separate one for talking therapy (when you have a therapist)? If so, and if I'm understanding you right, you have a vacancy for a talking therapist still, right? I want to reiterate Sofi's offer to help you find a therapist that isn't dismissive or gaslighting when talking about race and racism - would that be useful?

[BuddyBoi21]

Hey Siân,

This a very fair assessment of what's going on. However, I get really anxious and worried about enjoying physical intimacy "too much". I much rather roll with whatever my partner is comfortable with (as much as I comfortably can) because I'm scared of wanting more and hurting my partner because of it. From what I can (at least try) to remember, I used to be very physically affectionate at one point in my life. It seemed to bother some and with others it seemed I couldn't get the affection I needed to feel satiated so I just got used to the lack of affection. I also have a lot of anxiety about initiating physical affection in a lot of cases. (Something I was extremely envious of with my former meta.) I want to cuddle and hold hands but I also know once I get to a certain point (and I'm in the mood for it) the desire for sex will show up. I feel gross about it or fearful because of my own past trauma and because it looks like I was in another situation where one person's trauma was feeding into the the other's.

TLDR: I understand this is a human desire and need but I feel like I should just learn to get by without it. Not the healthiest but yeeeaaaahhhh here we are.

I want to give myself this permission (I think?) but I still seem to hold quite a bit of sexual shame and I'm also now coming to terms with the fact that I hold a lot of sexual trauma myself. I want to allow myself enjoyment of sex but again the concept of enjoying it "too much" really scares me. Sure I won't go on some rampage but I know that the enjoyment, both the amount and even sometimes the mere existence of it makes me feel uneasy. I know the fear of losing something that makes me happy or something along those lines is an issue for me. I also feel bad/guilty in situations where I have been told no on physical intimacy (sex or not) and feel disappointed. I should be able to live without sex, kisses or even hugs right? I've tried to reflect on why these things are such a big deal to me that I would go as far to feel disappointed/sad/etc.

As for jealousy, I don't really know sometimes. Sometimes it felt completely irrational. Especially in comparision to my former meta's seeming indifference to easily comforted jealousy and my ex's indifference to compersion. Everyone else seemed to be more put together and okay than I was. I felt very out of place and they seemed to be made for each other. It's why I even went as far to second guess myself and say that I'm probably not polyamorous and may truly struggle with trusting others within monogamy.

Like I said I won't be seeking anyone and am going to try and actively avoid romantic relationships (or anything) for a long while. With jealousy, maybe? I struggle to understand emotions and how they work via being autistic and being raised to devalue my own emotions as a kid. Add a mood disorder and it becomes even more frustrating. All in all, probably but I don't know exactly because people in both polyamory and monogamy have so many takes on jealousy and view it as a "negative" emotion that it can become confusing very quickly.

I'll be honest I wouldn't call what's happening right now trying to put myself back together. I do appreciate the support but it currently feels like I'm just trying to keep from feeling worse. I'm stagnant and it sucks. I'm aware I could stand to be kinder to myself but at best I'm just trying to see if I can manage neutrality. And yeah at best I have meds that are technically "working" and my psych is a chill dude but I'm still not in therapy. If you have the capacity then yes, I'm open to extra help at finding some therapy with someone who's informed on my trauma and background. I really appreciate the replies and support. I'm doing my best to at the very least not kick myself over being in a very similar situation to that of my last ex. Again thank you and thanks to the rest of the staff <3

[Sofi]

Hi there,
I think it's important to make a distinction between what's important and what's necessary to you. You said you should be able to live without sex and kisses, but that's different than *wanting* those things. It's also understandable why you're hesitant when it comes to sex and we aren't here to push you in any direction. All we are saying is that you shouldn't feel guilty for wanting sex or other physical affection, and that it's okay for that to be something you need in a relationship. Your situation had the added jealousy aspect to it, since your meta was receiving more of this physical affection than you were and that caused jealousy, which is normal. I agree that jealousy is viewed as this negative thing which isn't always the case, as I mentioned in my post it can be unhealthy but it can also exist as a natural emotion and not go *there*. Our job is to manage it and not let it affect our partners (although it's always okay to talk about it with them, you don't have to hold it in, of course). Do you want to talk about breaking down this perception of jealousy being a negative emotion?

Are you currently/were you previously finding therapists through a certain website, or through an insurance page, or directly going to a specific facility? I can recommend some websites that help you filter through therapists and make it easier to find one that's compatible with your needs and you can weed out those who don't seem to be, but if you're using insurance then you have to see if they take your insurance; if you'd rather go through your insurance to find providers in network, I can give you some suggestions on weeding people out too.

[BuddyBoi21]

Hi Sofi,

In regards to wanting these things that's fair enough. However, my ex did talk about how if you desired something intensely that it would be equivalent to a need. It's why it feels a little bit confusing when talking about something that (what it sounds like to me) is important to me versus what's actually necessary. At that point I tend to get overwhelmed and try not to worry about it unless it seems to be effecting me to the point where it's actually hurtng the other person/relationship as a whole.

Well jealousy being viewed negatively in monogamy is usually viewed as "You're insecure and you need to work on something so you trust your partner more". In polyamory that insecurity aspect seems to have more emphasis because it's typically agreed upon to be open and know everything that's going on with your partner and their other partners. In my case, my partner liked/strongly preferred that dynamic and when I saw other dynamics like "don't ask, don't tell" it looked like they were frowned upon by the general polyam community and I could tell my partner didn't like that dynamic anyway (she also outright said it lol). I felt even more guilty and tried to figure out why I could openly and comfortably hear about her sex life when she was just my friend but felt awful/extremely jealous hearing about it when she was considered my partner. This is exactly what led to me feeling like I was doing polyamory wrong. And although she seemed to reassure me on the topic I also still felt guilty about not being prepared to take care of an accidental kid as well at a moments notice. Again, it felt good to be reassured but I wish I didn't have so many mental issues (lack of proper meds and therapy) on top of struggling with jealousy and feeling like an equal deep down so that way I could support her and that child.

With therapy, I'm currently using sites that have lists pulling up only POC providers and then I can sort from there. I can see if they take insurance or not, are black or not, and many other filters. My main thing currently is finding a practitioner I like in my state and actually having the money (insurance or not) in order to see them. I promise I'm working on it, I'm just kinda getting screwed over because there are a lot of financial factors making it difficult for me right now :/

[Emily N]

Hi BuddyBoi21,

I think it’s okay to label your desire to incorporate physical intimacy into your relationships however you want to - if it feels restrictive to call sex or physical intimacy a “need”, then it’s okay to use whatever language feels most applicable to you. The most important thing is that it’s okay for it to be something that is a priority for you in a fulfilling relationship.

It’s interesting to hear you say that for the polyamorous community, there is more perceived emphasis on viewing jealousy as a result of insecurity. (If I'm understanding you right?) I agree that it is important to keep communication open in any relationship, but especially in polyamorous relationships, as built up feelings of jealousy or resentment could undermine other positive emotions. But each relationship is unique and specific, and you don’t have to build a communication framework based on the perceived expectations of the polyamorous community. It might not work best for you to be 100% open about everything that happens between a partner and your meta - you can still create boundaries about how much / what type of information you share without blocking off important communication.

I hear you, it is really difficult to find a therapist who is accepting new clients and accepts your insurance andddd who you connect well with! It sounds like you are already taking steps to find a therapist who you have a higher likelihood of connecting with, that’s amazing. Maybe someone has already mentioned this here, but if you find a few therapists who you are interested in, setting up first appointments with multiple as a “trial run” could be a good idea.

[BuddyBoi21]

Hi Emily N,

I appreciate this. I'm not sure if "restrictive" is the word I'd use to describe that feeling but it sure does feel anxiety-inducing lol.

Yep, you understood correctly! At least that's as far as I'm aware. Once I started talking to other polyamorous/non-monogamous folks jealousy seemed to be a lot more normal than I realized. Again though, it seems my ex wanted the 100% open dynamic whereas I didn't really think about what I wanted at all. I just thought there were specific ways to do things and since she had what she wanted sorted out I didn't put much thought into what I did or didn't want. I just wanted her, I wanted her to be happy and I wanted to be happy. There wasn't much else put into it besides those things in my head. I've started to learn more now that there are other dynamics and other ways to do things while obviously still having the required communication.

I've heard of people doing this. Again, main issue is money right now. There are one or two that I come across who do manage to have free first time appointments that's typically shorter than their full services. Still the ones that I have picked in the past unfortunately turn out to be based out of my state or they require that appointment to be in-person before being seen online or something else.

Hopefully, the next therapist I see is good enough so I can at least get by.

[Sam W]

Hi Buddyboi,

I'm crossing my fingers on your behalf that the next therapist is good as well! I also want to say that I think it's awesome that you've been actively learning and seeking out information about different relationship dynamics; that's a great way of making things at least a little easier for your future self when it comes to dating.

[BuddyBoi21]

Thank you Sam W!

Also a sidenote: Alright so I think I'm kinda getting somewhere with why I felt my feelings were acephobic initially just by existing (but still feel a little bit antsy that they are). When I try and research what a queerplatonic relationship is, it's categorized as a non-romantic relationship. Although I value friendships/platonic relationships, I felt strong romantic love for this person. I was treating the relationship like a romantic one when it's quite possible it wasn't at all?? But my ex was romance-favorable and didn't seem to mind my romantic feelings for her. I straight up told her I loved her and she was okay with it.

However in my head (if I had thought about it more and maybe if different language was used) I would quite possibly feel very differently if it were more explicitly understood as a non-romantic relationship. If I'm being completely honest with myself it would've been placed as a secondary relationship or something much more casual, especially on top of not having my needs met within that relationship. For me personally, this would mean little to no desire to have children with this person (to name at least one thing). When feeling insecure, my ex had told me she feared she was basically a bridge to a relationship where I'd be happier/having all of my needs met. I told her it wasn't true. And I meant that, I didn't see her as a crossroad or stand in until I "found someone who could make me happier" at least I hoped not. (I have anxiety and can't tell the future but as far as I was aware that's not how I saw her despite not being completely satisfied).

And this is what I'm trying to ask myself. Is it fair (to my ex/in general) that I would prioritize a romantic relationship with an alloromantic/allosexual person over a queerplatonic relationship (operating under the assumption it's 100% not romantic)?
Is there anything I could do about not having this romantic loneliness fulfilled when the person still cares about me, they just can't romantically love me/love me in the way that I love them?

From what I can tell about myself I think without those romantic feelings, I have little to no interest in long term commitments that involve the "relationship escalator" (i.e. kids, marriage unless it's for tax benefits, etc). It's not like I'll see the person I'm (casually) involved with as an object, I just won't be nearly as invested in THAT specific way with that particular person. I'll still support them and show concern, etc but honestly I think things like jealousy or other emotions associated with romantic relationships would no longer apply alongside desires for kids or white-picket fences. They'd still be important to me like all of my other close friends but that's where I think the problem would lie.

It felt so unfair to her that while she still cared about me and she couldn't reciprocate my love in the same way that it still wasn't enough for me (I still felt uncontrollably "romantic loneliness"). I still felt hurt and it continued to add on to her feeling broken. This is why I feel a lot of guilt around what I wanted/needed. It felt very contradictory to her identity and a lot of time seemed to add on to the insecurity she felt in her new identity.

Now some of my ideas about the "relationship escalator" are altered a bit because of my mental health impacting my ability to actually do these things (like I'm not sure I want kids anymore because of my bipolar disorder) but this is the general idea. I hope this makes more sense about my initial question on this post! And I know it seems long winded but I'm trying to figure out if it would be a good idea for me to date another aro/ace person in the future (if I ever start dating again) or if things are just inherently incompatible because the wants/needs would contradict each other inherently (like no one is at fault it just wouldn't work out in the long run). Again, I hope this all makes sense. Thank you everyone <3

[Sam W]

You know, with that comment from your ex about being a "bridge" I think it helps to remember that, unless we stay with a partner until we or they die, all of our romantic relationships are bridges to each other. That doesn't make the bridges bad things, it's just kind of how relationships (and time) work. The issue that could arise is treating a partner as place where you're hanging out until something better comes along, but it sounds like you weren't doing that.

When we're thinking about our dating lives, I don't think it's unfair to prioritize ones where romantic and sexual connections are present over something queerplatonic or otherwise without those elements. That doesn't even mean you're devaluing those platonic relationships; it just means the people you'd have them with are in the category of close friends rather than partners. Too, seeking out relationships is always going to involve some degree excluding people based on our preferences; that doesn't make those people inferior or us bad, it just means not every person out there, including people we like, is someone who can meet the needs we have for partners (or is someone we can meet the needs of).

All that being said, it sounds like aro/ace people as a group are unlikely to offer what you're looking for in a relationship (and, in some ways, you may not be able to offer them what they need). Of course, every person is different and there could be aro/ace folks who'd be a good fit for you as partners. But I think you'd be setting yourself up for more success if you focused your dating attentions on people who share your desire for sex and romance.

[BuddyBoi21]

Hey Sam W,

I guess that makes sense.

This is also understandable and just feels rough. I already have a hard time with finding possible romantic partners and then finding folks who reciprocate my feelings, etc. So falling back into the "almost relationship" pattern isn't going to feel fun for me but I'll deal if it's for the best (when I decide to start dating again).

I get what you're saying here. It still feels very off in some way since my ex was romance-favorable and could still receive sensory based pleasure from sex meaning that while she was aroace she could still fulfill at least some of my needs. But judging by how I felt during the relationship and how things played out, it's probably for the best I don't get involved with any other ace folks.

Thanks for the response!