can't finger myself. vaginismus?

[Lyle Lanley]

i am once again talking about this problem.

ever since i started masturbating i've only ever used external stimuli. my attempts at fingering were never successful,
yesterday i tried again with my middle finger after i felt aroused and wet enough. with some pressure and initial discomfort, i could only fit a little more than the first phalange in.
my hymen/vaginal corona is quite tight and thick, and i think there may be some sort of extra tissue around it. it's a very small hole. i'm really scared of rupturing my hymen, bleeding and feeling pain. if i'm afraid of these being the consequences with a finger, imagine how it'd be with someone else's hand or genitals (i know sex is not just penetration, but foreplays that involve it and PiV sex is something i'd like to try)

P.S. i've also used very small tampons and i have a thread about it here. tldr: it was easy getting them in but painful and nearly traumatising when it was time to pull them out.

P.P.S. i'm scared i may have a condition or something. could it be vaginismus or similar? the excess tissue i felt when trying to finger myself also concerned me.

[Sam W]

Hi Lyle Lanley,

Have you been able to talk with a healthcare provider about this and have an exam done? They'd be able to help you work put if there's an underlying cause, like Vaginismus, and give you some context for what you're feeling when you do insert a finger.

[Lyle Lanley]

no i have not, besides i'm not sure if the gynecologists in my country can do those sorts of exams yet for someone who is still a "virgin". and i'm too ashamed to tell my parents about what's going on, as i can't go to a gyno autonomously

[Sam W]

Got it. So, someone can have a visit with an OB-GYN even if they're not sexually active. There's nothing in the exam they can't do unless someone has done a certain sexual activity; and I did check, I'm not finding any indication that your age would prevent you from having that care in your country.

If you're not sure how to bring this to your parents, maybe frame it as being about issues with tampons? That way you don't have to mention masturbation, but you're still noticing pain or discomfort that you'd like someone to take a look at.

[Lyle Lanley]

i've told my mum about the issue. i told her about trying to finger myself and she said that she can't tell if it's normal or not as she never fingered herself when she was still a virgin.

when i told her about the tampons she said it might be wrong insertion and/or inexperience of the first few times.

one of the things i'm also worried about is when my hymen rips and i'm scared of bleeding and having pain. my mum also just told me that the first few times are always painful (and so you must lose your virginity to someone you have a deep emotional connection to, yada yada)

that being said, with self penetration already being difficult , and me having FOMO about not having lost my virginity yet, i'm really not feeling well about it.

[Sam W]

With those concerns about the hymen (actually called the vaginal corona), it might help to know that it's not a body part that rips or tears; it's a flexible membrane. That's part of why the first time we have partnered vaginal intercourse isn't "supposed" to hurt--it CAN hurt, due to thinks like tension, not having enough lube, or other things due to inexperience--but it hurting isn't an inevitability brought about by the vaginal corona. You can read more about all that here: My Corona: The Anatomy Formerly Known as the Hymen & the Myths That Surround It

Do you think you could go back to your mom and explain that it's seeming more and more clear that the pain might not just be about inexperience with tampons, and that you'd like to have an appointment with an OB-GYN just to make sure there's nothing else going on?

I do also want to add that, with that fear of missing out, it might help to know that not only is there not one, single timeline that everyone will follow in terms of partnered sex, but that you're not even as "behind" as you might feel you are. From the data we have, plenty of people have not been sexually active by the time they're 17.

[Lyle Lanley]

hello, i started reading the article, but it says

Some people feel no pain at all, while others, with a thicker vaginal corona, have reported some pains. There may be minor ruptures in the mucous folds that hurt, and sometimes there may be a little bleeding.

and that is what i'm afraid of. you say that it does not tear, but from what it seems i do have a thicker corona and i'm really scared it'll bleed and hurt because if it was already painful with a tampon, i can't imagine what will happen when i'll have sex.

and yes, i really do want to go to a gynecologist (i found that what i can't do yet is internal exams with a speculum and internal palpation, external inspection is possible) but as you guys said i'll frame it as an issue with tampons. i may wait for my next period, perhaps try tampons again (or do it in summer as my mum sees no purpose in using internal absorbents outside of summer) and then say that. i'm planning it so because i'm anxious and want to preserve my mental wellbeing, i don't know how she could react.

but in case i don't do all that, is it possible to get some help on what i can use as proof that i should get examined?

(besides i do know there are many people who haven't started sexual activity yet at 17, but i just feel left behind in a way, and this has been bothering me for a while)

[Willa]

Hi Lyle Lanley,

Could you frame this issue to your mother that you would like to see if anything is wrong now so that you can know if tampons are a comfortable option by the time summer comes around? You can also say that you are feeling nervous something else is happening and would like the reassurance of a medical visit. As for proof, we are unable to diagnose you through this format but you could possibly use the source linked to you previously as a jumping-off place for the conversation with your mother. Does that all make sense?

[Lyle Lanley]

hi, i have an update.

i inspected myself with the mirror and found that there's a piece of flesh blocking the entrance, and that there seems to be two or three holes instead of one. i don't mean the urethra, i mean that this piece of flesh has two or three openings, of which in the bigger one i can insert just a bit less than half a finger.
that is what i described to my mum and i think we'll book a gyno appt soon.
in the meantime, what is it that could be wrong with me? septate or cribriform hymen does not seem to be it since that is the hymen and this is like if my vagina were protruding.

[Willa]

Hi Lyle Lanley,

That sounds like a good idea to book a gynecology appointment. Unfortunately in this forum, it is difficult for me to understand the anatomy you are describing to me (as well as we do not/can not diagnose in this online setting), so it would be best to take this issue to the medical expert. We will be more than happy to discuss how this appointment went or the next steps if that is something you are interested in then.

[Heather]

Lyle, what you are describing to me does sound just like a septate hymen, and I'm betting that's what it is: that's hymenal tissue wearing away in such a way that more than one opening formed and is widening. That's one of several typical variations with hymens, and you'll find it in the link Sam shared with you a bit upthread.

[Lyle Lanley]

thank you so much for the replies willa and heather.
my main hypothesis for it is indeed a septate hymen, but i can't know for certain until i see a gyno, i'll ask my mother to and from the way we talked about it this morning i can tell she is not against it

[Sam W]

I'm glad Willa and Heather we're able to help you out! And I hope the conversation with your mom goes well.

[Lyle Lanley]

hi Sam w, you have also been a big help to me. opening this thread has gradually made me less ashamed of this issue and talking about it.
the other day i showed that to my mum with a mirror (we do have the kind of relationship where if there's something wrong or confusing with my vulva i can tell or even show her despite being slightly embarrassed)
she said that it was normal and that the vagina can have some weird shapes. personally, i'd say what i saw was that my vaginal opening looked like a rose, which was mentioned in the article about the vaginal corona.
and the other "holes" i saw were not actual holes, only one was big enough to be my vaginal opening.
i also looked for images of vulva and vagina on Wikimedia commons, so i could see real, normal human anatomy, and some vaginas had similar stuff as mine yet they were not labeled as having deformations. (if the scarleteam could indicate some other sources where i can see non-sexualised pictures of genitalia, that would be nice)

then again, i'll properly know what's going on when i go to the gynecologist.

[Lyle Lanley]

PS: also last night i got aroused enough and could fit a bit more than the first phalange of my middle finger, i even attempted to put another finger in. it hurt but i felt that it was stretching.
at a point it was physically painful but mentally reassuring, in a way? is all of this normal?

[Latha]

Hi Lyle Lanley,

While some discomfort is to be expected, you shouldn't push yourself to continue if you're feeling pain. Just to clarify, did you feel reassured because you were concerned you couldn't insert your fingers at all?

some vaginas had similar stuff as mine yet they were not labeled as having deformations

Yes, that is because your vulva isn't deformed. Of course, it is one thing to know that intellectually, it is another to really believe it. Looking at pictures of vulvas is a great way to internalize this message. Here are some links:

• https://www.scarleteen.com/ask/external ... ustrations

• https://www.thisisavulva.com/vulvaphotos

• https://vulvarium.com/gallery-and-stories/

• https://samhilatalanta.com/thevulvagallery

[Lyle Lanley]

yes, i stopped when i felt pain, i only took what i was comfortable with.
and yes, i was reassured because i previously thought nothing at all could be inserted, and it also felt sort of nice at some point?

and thank you for the resources!!