Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Questions and discussions about gender, gender roles and identity.
oliver-kittycat
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Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

Hi there!!!

So: It's been a little over two years since I first came out as a trans guy to my parents.
I am, to be perfectly honest, pissed that they aren't accepting it already.
My mother's sibling (idk what a gender neutral version of aunt/uncle), and their husband, are very queer and very supportive of me. I recently went to a LARP with them and my cousin and god, everyone there called me he/him and Oliver and it felt so nice and I miss it. I'm back home now, and it feels so blatantly wrong that I'm still being referred to by she/her and Penny. it SUCKS and i want it to be over already.
I've talked to a therapist, there's a service where I live that does 8 sessions of free therapy for young people, and she said that I seem confident in my identity. We tried to convince my mom (my dad has a Thing about not going to therapy) that I am, indeed, a trans guy. It's changed nothing. I learnt maybe a little more about my parents' reasoning, but other than that, we haven't had any development at all in actual acceptance.

See, my parents aren't transphobic exactly. I think they just don't want me to be trans. My mother's sibling said that it really doesn't make sense to them that my parents went with the "do not encourage" strategy, because, quote, I've always been stubborn. And I agree. It honestly makes no sense.

So, I've kind of resolved to just... say "I am trans, and I will be coming out to everyone else, with or without your support. Get with the program." But I haven't found a good time, not to mention I'm supposed to have an appointment with GOSHH (a LGBTQ+ sexual health organization, mainly, but they do counselling as well) where I guess I'm supposed to do more Gender Introspection. I don't know. I just want to get this over with and start living as me, and fuck everyone who says otherwise.

What I'm asking is, could you all help me figure out how to say "I'm trans" for good? It may not stick, but at least I'll have tried.
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Sam W
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by Sam W »

Hi oliver-kittycat,

So, the tricky thing here is that it sounds like you have been saying "I'm trans" to your parents, at multiple times and in multiple ways, and they're still choosing not to hear or accept that information. That's incredibly crummy and unsupportive of them, and it makes me think that this is less about you finding one more way of saying it and more about you finding what else you can do to be out and live in the way that affirms you. That being said, we can certainly help you brainstorm one final attempt at saying all this to them if that would be helpful to you!

I hear you expressing that desire to start living as you really are, and experience what you did when out with your extended family all the time (I'm so glad, by the way, that you have supportive adults in your life). What would living that way involve for you? Are there things around coming out, or gender expression, or stuff related to all that that you want to do but can't?
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

Hi Sam!!

Yeah, I guess that's true. But often our chats about this stuff end up with them asking me *why* I'm trans, and me trying to explain why, even though I can't. I feel like I've been caving too easily to them, because I do tend to try and avoid conflict, so I feel like if I tell them, "No, I'm done, this is it. I'm not explaining why, it's just happening, and you have to deal with it", it might work. Hopefully.

It'd involve people I live with calling me my actual name and pronouns. Maybe a little down the line, I'd come out to the rest of my extended family, and then the people in my musical theatre group. And it might be unlikely, given that my mom has previously expressed that she really doesn't want me wearing a binder, but I feel like maybe TransTape would be an option? I have pretty big boobs, so I can't really hide them under a hoodie or anything, plus I wouldn't really want to - I love wearing clothes I feel are fashionable. I'd just like to be able to wear them without my chest being a big neon sign saying "GIRL".
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by Sam W »

Do you feel like you could turn that question of how you know back on them a bit and ask why that matters? Or, maybe, if you're trying to assert that this isn't up for debate, saying, "I know this may not be easy to understand, but that's not what I'm asking for. What I need is for you to accept it." Do you feel like they'd listen to that at all? Or are you getting the sense that you almost have to be harsh for them to listen and take you seriously?

Are there any people you'd feel comfortable coming out to sooner rather than later? And do you feel like your parents not affirming your identity is getting in the way of that somehow? I also wonder, has your mom's sibling made any attempt to talk to her on your behalf (if you're even interested in that)? Sometimes adults just will not listen to something until another adult says it.

As far as trans tape goes, it's certainly an option! Do you have any money of your own saved up to get some and try it out? Too, have you looked into any programs that help folks get gender affirming gear for free or very cheap?
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

I think the second one might be about right to use. Not sure if they'd listen to it, though I don't really think being harsh would help much, I'm just kind of angry.

I do live with my uncle and my aunt, as well as my immediate family, and I think if I told them they'd support me. But if I had a situation where half the people I live with are calling me Oliver, and the other half are *not* doing that, I feel like it could create a lot of conflict.
I think my mom's sibling has tried to talk to her, but I don't know what they said, or if it affected anything. And yeah, that was part of the reason I wanted to talk to a therapist in the first place - I thought maybe if an adult told them, they'd listen, but my mom said it felt like that was the reason and it didn't work.

Unfortunately all the money I have is physical coins and notes, so I can't order anything online without my parents' permission. And I've looked into a few, but honestly I'd prefer trans tape to a binder, and it doesn't seem readily available with that kind of program (plus my parents would probably be confused if *any* packages came for me, because the only kind I usually get is stuff they order me or stuff sent from family). Possibly I could ask my mom's sibling to order me some trans tape and send it with something else? Idk.
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Sam W
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by Sam W »

With the tape, I would definitely ask your mom's sibling if they can make the order on your behalf and you'll pay them back (that also cuts out the issue of you explaining a package). You could also look into getting KT tape, since it's usually available at drugstores and thus you'd be able to just buy it yourself.

With your parents, it does sound like you're at that point where saying "I don't need you to understand it perfectly, I just need you to accept it" is about all you can do, because you've been trying so many other things to get them to accept and act on what you're telling them. I think it'd also be helpful to decide how you're going to proceed if your say that and nothing changes (and, for that matter, if they finally come to their senses and accept what you tell them) just so you feel prepared for the outcomes.

When you think about conflict arising if some people in the house are gendering you correctly and using the right name and your parents aren't, what do you suspect that conflict would look like?
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

Hmmm, yeah, that might be a good idea. I would like to have my parents' approval, but we'll see where it goes.

Yeah, I think I'll tell them that, hopefully it'll open up more of a conversation about What I Want To Do Next rather than Why Do I Want To Do This. I think if nothing changes, I might end up just coming out to the rest of my family etc. on my own, which would be scary, but yknow.... better than the alternative of being deadnamed and misgendered constantly. I did have the thought of saying to my parents "look, I'm going to come out, with or without you. I'd love for you to be there for me, but at this point, I want to just do it already." Don't know how that would go down but I really want to do it.

I think the most likely outcome is there'd be two "sides". No one would get violent or anything, I just think there'd be a lot of disagreements. I have a little brother who's generally resistant to change/not super good with conflict, so I think he would be *very* stressed if that happened, and I'd like to avoid that if possible... but it might also push my parents to give in and start referring to me correctly. I'm not sure.
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Sam W
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by Sam W »

I think you're well within your rights to frame your coming out to your parents in that way of "I'm doing this, I'd love for you to support me, but I need to do this regardless," especially since it sounds like that, while it might create tension, it won't put you any danger (if I'm wrong on that, by all means correct me). But I think the more that you can frame it for them of this not being up for negotiation, the more chance there might be of them finally understanding this isn't something they can somehow debate you out of.

Can I ask how old your brother is? And are you out to him already?
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

Yeah, I can say for certain it won't put me in danger. And I think you're right that I should frame it as a thing that's happening regardless.

He's 12, going on 13, but he's a lot more... childish?? than I was at that age (not quite the right word, but yknow. I think it's just because he has an older sibling lol). And yeah, I have *told* him, but apparently he went to my parents around when it first came up and they told him to just carry on she/hering me until further notice.
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DesertSonny
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by DesertSonny »

Your parents sound like they are being pointlessly difficult, much sympathy! This column by Captain Awkward about the derail that is "but I don't understaaaaand" might be cathartic/helpful. Link here: https://captainawkward.com/2022/01/18/1 ... ou-mother/

I was in a similar position when I came out, my brother is about 4 years younger than me chronologically and at the time much more little-kid than I was even at the same age, maybe it's a little sibling thing? Regardless, similar dynamic.

What worked for me was taking him out for ice cream (I assume a similarly neutral location like the park or whatever would also work) to sit him down and explain extremely, maybe overkill-level clearly. I planned it out beforehand and wrote out what I wanted to cover.

Here's my talking points, as much as I can reconstruct them from many years ago:

1. I am a boy which means brother, son, etc not a girl, sister, daughter etc

2. I will tell/have told Mom, Dad, etc this so you don't need to keep it secret or anything. If they ask you about it, tell them to talk to me directly.

3. If you have questions please ask me, I will happily explain and I'd prefer to talk about it directly than you try to figure it out by asking Mom or similar.

4. I love you and this changes nothing about our relationship

In your case it might help to add explicitly that your parents might contradict this, but you are the final word on your own name/gender/identity so he can and should ignore them when they use your old name or she pronouns.
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

Hi DesertSonny!! That article's very interesting and I might try some of that out.

Yeah, I don't know, I think he's aware of what's happening - like he understands that I'm trans - it's just he tends to defer to our parents on this stuff, which I don't blame him for. I don't really think he'll take my "side" on this one until they do, too. Thanks very much though!!
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by Sam W »

Hi Oliver-kittycat,

I just wanted to jump in and ask if you think there's any use in making a direct ask of your brother to, at the very least, call you the right name and pronouns, even if he's only up for doing it when it's you two alone talking with each other? As much as your parents aren't acting like it, asking someone to refer to you differently is a very small ask, and (in theory) one that isn't really taking a side in some bigger debate so much as a common courtesy (after all, if I introduce myself with "I'm Sam" and someone insisted on calling me Sue even when corrected, we'd treat that as pretty rude, which is a framing that might work better for him).
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

I don't know, I'm not sure he'll do it until he has our parents' "permission"?? He's still pretty dependent on them for most things, including direction about what he's allowed to do, so yeah.

I think I'm gonna tell my parents soon, my grandparents are staying over right now so I'll wait til they've left and then ask my mom if I can talk to her and my dad. Hopefully things will go well!!
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by Sam W »

I hope it does as well! If you end up needing to brainstorm more parts of what you want to say how you want to frame things for them, you're always welcome to do so here.
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

So uhh it didn't really work?

Over the summer, I went to a three week summer camp and my parents talked with me beforehand about how I was gonna present myself. It was good because we were like, being honest with each other, but it seems like they think I'm nonbinary? They said it might be good for me to present as they/them while there, because people might find that easier to understand given how I dress (for example, there's this top i wore a lot which shows off my cleavage) and I started off doing that, but the camp was SO queer i just started using they/he.
In fact (this might have just been because I got moved, at my request, to a boys' RA group) but it seemed like me being nonbinary confused them more than me just being, like, a feminine trans guy. Side note, all the guys there were really lovely, even though most of them were cishet. Some of them were a bit confused but went along with it.
But, point is, it seems like my presentation and understanding of gender as a fluid thing seems to have indicated to my parents that I'm nonbinary, rather than a trans guy. My mom did say recently we need to talk about gender stuff again soon, but I'm not sure what to say. I really just want to come out to everyone but they're still adamant they don't want me to put them in situations which make *them* have to refer to me by chosen name/pronouns. So uhhh yeah
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by Heather »

I'm so sorry. This sounds really frustrating.

I wonder if you feel like you can tell your parents that no one else can actually tell you what they think your gender identity without mostly basing that in their own ideas and projections. Figuring out our gender identity -- even just day to day and moment to moment -- is very personal and is really about what's inside us, and how we feel, things no one else can tell us.

Can you tell them that you appreciate their efforts to help, but that this is really not helpful? Heck, if you can be even more direct, you might try gently telling them that it's actually pretty presumptuous. You could even ask them how they might feel if people were trying to tell them what their gender ID was rather than asking and listening to their own sense of that.
I really just want to come out to everyone but they're still adamant they don't want me to put them in situations which make *them* have to refer to me by chosen name/pronouns.
I'm really sorry to hear this. How do you feel about a firm but gentle statement that this is actually something that's pretty painful and hard, whereas using someone's wanted pronouns is really easy and painless?
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oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

Woof, a whole year? Man. Okay, well, hi! I'm back!

A while ago now I had a conversation with my mom at a restaurant. We'd organized a time to go and talk about The Whole Gender Thing. I expressed to her that I didn't know how to explain my internal experience of gender to her and my dad, and that it felt kind of hopeless trying to get them to understand - that I'd been waiting so long it felt like it'd never happen.

The next night they sat me down and told me that they were going to start referring to me by my name and pronouns.
It was overwhelming. Everything came crashing down. And it wasn't the way I'd wanted it, not at all. They seemed so torn up. My dad - he's always quite honest and a little blunt - told me he'd lost sleep over all this, that he wouldn't sleep that night. They told me they didn't want me to be trans because they were scared for me; they said it would make my life so much harder. I was sobbing my eyes out. I felt awful. I wanted them to be *happy* for me, even though I knew how unlikely it was. I didn't want it to be this way.
So, I told them we'd put it on hold.

I have no idea how long it's been since then, but it may have been November or so. I know it was winter, so about six months.
I'm at that camp again. I go by Ollie and he/him here; a week or so after I leave the camp I'm going to the LARP with my cousin again. It's a little surreal. I just, I don't know. I want to be me.
It's weird, because I don't know that I really get dysphoria. I just kind of decided to be trans, and it makes me happy, so I've kept going. Sure, sometimes I'd like to hide my breasts in some way, but I don't *hate* them, I don't hate my body, I just dislike the way it makes me be perceived. (Especially because at this camp I have a quite flamboyant gay male friend who dresses femininely, wears makeup to discos, etc. I just wish I could be that.)
I don't know. I'm maybe halfway through the camp, and being here has just got me thinking. But I don't know how to bring it up with my parents again. And I'm scared, too. I know being trans will make my life harder. I know I'll face transphobia on top of misogyny. But I can't imagine living my life as a woman. It feels like a lie.
I'm choking up a little bit writing this, to be honest.

Yeah, just, any advice or comfort would be appreciated.
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CaitlinEve
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by CaitlinEve »

Hi oliver-kittycat, welcome back!

Let me start out by saying that even if you don't have what you consider to be traditional dysphoria, that doesn't make you less 'valid'. Your gender identity is your own, and you shouldn't feel the need to compare and contrast it to other people's processes. For what it's worth Ollie, I think that what you've said (particularly that living life as a woman would feel like a lie) shows that this isn't really something you just decided randomly one day to try out for funsies, and is instead something deeper that's worth exploring.

Does being Ollie feel right to you? How have you felt these past few days at camp using he/him pronouns? You're right that transitioning may introduce you to new things you haven't faced before like transphobia; but it may also open you up to a whole new world and life you couldn't even imagine from where you are right now. I'll be honest that your post sounds a lot like my experience, in a few ways. I can definitely relate to how you spoke of the dislike of how you are perceived not necessarily meaning a dislike of your body. So there's at least one person (there's definitely many, many more though) who has gone through what you're going through right now and you're not alone, if that brings any comfort.

I'm sorry to hear that your experience discussing this with your parents didn't go as you wanted it to. I think they are worried for you and what you may have to face, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't transition. Ultimately the choice is yours. Try to think; if you could've been born whoever/whatever you wanted to be; who/what would that be?

Please let us know if you need any specific resources, or even just more support!
oliver-kittycat
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by oliver-kittycat »

Hi CaitlinEve, thank you for your reply!

Being Ollie definitely feels right. I feel the most "me" with that name and he/him pronouns. Everyone calling me those just- feels right!
I've been called "sir" and "he" by people who don't know me before, even though I don't bind. I always get so happy. If that was my everyday life, it'd be really nice.
I'm really glad to hear you can relate, I think it helps.

Yeah, my dad did say something about how I shouldn't live my life not doing things because they'll upset my parents. And it does suck to feel like i've upset them. I care about them deeply, of course I don't want to upset them, but I also don't want that to be at the cost of my own happiness. I do want to transition, and maybe I'll talk to them about it soon? It's just that like, I'm going to a LARP a week after I get back from camp, and then in August I'm going to France for two weeks. I don't know when to talk about it
If I could've been born as whatever I wanted, I think maybe i'd just have my body except flat-chested. Maximize aerodynamics lmao
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Re: Trying to convince my parents I'm trans

Unread post by HannahP »

Hi Oliver-Kittycat!

I've read through your posts — what a long and stressful process this has been for you! I can see how much you care about your family and their feelings, while also wanting to stay true to yourself. That is such a difficult thing to navigate and you are being so thoughtful about it.

I relate to the feeling of wanting the people I love to feel the same way about my life that I do. It sounds like your last conversation with your parents was really disappointing, even though they agreed to call you by your name and pronouns, because you were hoping that they would see the excitement and joy you feel about your identity. That sounds so painful!

I know it doesn't feel good right now, but I think it's a really positive thing that your dad said that you shouldn't make decisions about your life based on whether or not they'll upset him and your mom. You say your dad is blunt and honest, so it sounds like you can really believe that he means this! Learning to stick to your boundaries and be true to yourself even when it upsets people you love can be challenging, but it is such an important skill. We have some great articles about boundaries and conflict that I think could be helpful for getting more comfortable with that idea, like this one: Be Your Own Superhero: Learning How and When to Stand Up for Ourselves. We also have a resource about coming out as trans that could help, too: Trans Summer School: Let's Bust Out of This Closet!.

Moving forward, it could be that the best way to communicate with your parents that your identity is something good and healthy for you is to *show* them, rather than try to tell them. What I mean is, are there any changes (even small ones) that you could make for yourself that will help you live the life and be the self that you want to be? For example, using the KT tape that you talked with Sam about last year, or asking a different friend or family member to use your name and pronouns. If you can make small changes in your life that don't rely on your parents' participation, that might give them a chance to see that these things make you feel happy and whole and that it's not something they have to be scared about.

I understand that you still want to talk with your parents and that there may be aspects of your transition that you need their help and/or support in order to pursue. It sounds like planning and scheduling this conversation is stressing you out a bit! Keep in mind that there's no rush: you can decide to have this conversation whenever feels comfortable for you. Deciding when is the right time might involve thinking about what your biggest priority is: Is the conversation really weighing on your mind the longer you wait and it's important to you to get to it as soon as possible? Or would you rather wait a bit so that you can pick a time when you're not so busy?

Let us know if you'd like help brainstorming changes you could make or anything else you need!
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