Scarleteen

I guess to see how beautiful S is for a second first-time, through the perspective of someone who has even less of a chance with him than I do, is devastating. And coming from the boy who told me he loves me "more than he will ever anyone else" and 'will follow me into the dark'. How am I supposed to make sense of this? How am I not supposed to cry for the beauty that I see and that people are capable of seeing in one another?

Through N's eyes I can see the beauty I saw in S for the first time again, without all the icy crust and scars from pain, fear, and cynicism. I can see the real S, not the one who's perfect and an authority figure, but the painfully vulnerable brown boy N is allowed to see precisely because N doesn't idolize S like I do, because his want is distant and just an observation. To see S in this way again is like seeing the sky once you get out of the city after having lived amidst smog for ten years. God. How can I help people? How can I be a force for good in the world?
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N is the boy who saved me.

Last year, after one of S's biggest concerts, I was standing in the foyer trying not to cry as I went up to congratulate him afterwards. I was scared; I didn't know if I was supposed to, how my gesture of affection could possibly happen as I was so nervous and afraid of S. Meanwhile, S was looking disoriented, almost lonely, as if he didn't know how to deal with the crush of people around him who all admired him but couldn't know what it was like to be him. I gave him a hug. It was awkward, but I was so glad I did.

Afterwards, my mom stayed and talked to his mom for a while longer, about how hard it's been on him to have such a busy concert schedule and whatnot. My mom told me later that S's mom had pulled her aside and said, "I love your daughter. She is so supportive, and she means so much to S. It's good to have her in the orchestra and in our second family."

Wow. I finally get what "Love is an action, not a feeling" means.

To repair my relationship with S, I need to be strong. I realize now that it was a misstep to look for emotional support from him—of course he won't give more than he typically does, he's unable to, that's not who he is. While it's a good and reasonable thing to look for in a romantic relationship, S needs someone to take initiative for him—the fact that he doesn't "complete me" or meet all my expectations doesn't mean I should dump him. My reaction was valid but not wise. Really, what I need to do is reach out to him to love him. I need to ask him what his worries, dreams, cares are, and offer that support to him. That's what love is. It's not all about finding the right person or receiving.

Same goes for N. It doesn't matter whether I'm in a romantic relationship with him, "just friends", or even more casually friends. What matters is that I offer him compassion and companionship, that I am a good listener.

I am growing up, I think.

You know, I don't really know what to say to all of this, because it sounds like you have worked it all out for yourself! (And also to just give you a hat tip on some astounding emotional maturity you clearly possess: you're pretty amazing, you know.)

If you haven't read it already, I think you would really appreciate "all about love" by bell hooks. I think so much of it echoes where you're going here in this last post and would feel very supportive of your general state of mind.

Hey Faust, I hope you don't mind me giving some input here, too. I wanted to touch on something you said.

I realize now that it was a misstep to look for emotional support from him—of course he won't give more than he typically does, he's unable to, that's not who he is. While it's a good and reasonable thing to look for in a romantic relationship, S needs someone to take initiative for him

It takes a lot of maturity and self-awareness to recognise when you've been looking for a kind of support from someone that they have already demonstrated they're unable to provide. But I also want you to know that this doesn't mean you have to change your needs. You're allowed to need someone who is really emotionally supportive. It's important to recognise that that's a need you have in any romantic relationship, and therefore anyone who isn't able to provide that is not going to be able to meet your needs and thus isn't suited to a romantic relationship with you. Figuring out these kinds of needs is a really big part of learning what you want a future romantic relationship to look like for you to be happy and fulfilled in it. Heck, it's also important to recognise these needs in other relationships too -- perhaps your needs for emotional support in friendships differ, for example. It seems that you are doing a lot of self reflection and discovery, and I commend you for that.

Thanks Onionpie.
I understand that I don't need to change my needs—of course I can't change my needs. Needs can only repressed, not changed, and that makes everyone unhappy. I was referring to the fact that my relationship with S will continue to exist in some form, since we're in the same tight-knit community and I also value it enough to keep some part of it. I just need to change my relationship with him.

On a less happy note

I just realized it tonight, and this is going to sound crazy after everything I've written. Now I understand truly what "victim-blaming" is. It sounds like I'm obsessive and I blame all my problems on other people. It sounds like I think everyone is out to get me.

I realized that N has been manipulating me this whole time. He came into my life at a time when I was very needy—B died earlier that year, I was experiencing doubts about my relationship with S—and gave me everything that I wanted. in fact, since he's so smart, he's able to be the perfect partner for me and give me everything I could ever want or need, because he really understands how people work. But then the thing is, he pressures me to commit to him and him alone, which damages my relationship with S, which then makes me dependent on him further because I'm even less willing to trust S, and S is not only one of my other best friends but one of the leaders of my usual group of friends. And so then I'm isolated and dependent on N for attention. Which he's excellent at giving to me. Then N asks me if I love him, and I have to say no. At first I convinced myself, "Yes, N's so good for me, I ought to give him a chance, it'll get my mind off of S." Eventually, though, I realized that this was making me feel more trapped and unhappy rather than better and freer, and so I "broke up" with N. I've been getting more and more honest with N, and now I realize why I never had any feelings towards him at all, other than a bland sense of security: My relationship with him was almost entirely motivated from need and a desire for security, not actual appreciation for him as a person. He drew me in from the beginning by teaching me about how people work, sharing his knowledge, and this has really been the only thing that appeals to me about him as a person—his intelligence. But even this was a trick, because he knows that intelligence is the trait or form of power I value having above all others, and that my self-image depends upon feeling and thinking I'm intelligent. Sooooooo.

This explains quite a bit. I'm not devastated in the least—I never loved N. I don't mean that in the sense that I never tried to give him love; I did try. I tried for several months while I dated him. I mean that our relationship was never based off of actual feelings of empathy for the other person, of identification of the self in the other, in genuine liking for each other. I didn't have real emotional closeness with him; he was just a kind of constant presence. I'm not devastated, but I am very, very upset.

The whole thing regarding how I became *so* upset with S makes sense now. Before I just thought I was crazy and needy, and for some immature reason couldn't get over him. Now I realize that of course I really wanted S; I was in effect being taken from a real emotionally intimate relationship, being asked to sacrifice it, for the name of security. It makes sense now that I haven't been able to accept my romantic relationship with S as being over for so many months, because in retrospect, while S wasn't a perfect partner for me, it was real, and it may have even been worth continuing further. I was just presented something "better" and guilt tripped for not choosing what was "the obviously good choice" before I was able to really consider what to do about S, much less get over any disappointment that our relationship wasn't what I hoped.

I thought I was crazy. I thought I was crazy. I was made to act in a way that was crazy, and if I told anyone, except maybe save my mom, they surely would think Faust was just being melodramatic.

I was made to act towards S and in my relationship towards S in a way that looks desperate and immature.

I don't think that N entirely intended to hurt me, or that what he did was abuse in that sense. I think it was abusive, though, in that he essentially coerced me into doing things that benefit him.

I'm so angry.

Am I crazy? Is it possible that I could just be reading this wrong?

I must claim my responsibility now: This whole problem which is the subject of this thread was caused by my inability to accept that I could not possess S. With that, ladies, gentlemen, and all-other gendered and non-gendered folks, I take leave of this sad sad comedy.

*I must say, after having written my rant, I make it sound as if N is solely responsible for my feelings regarding S. Of course that's not true, there was a problem with S to start with.

I'm just so angry. I feel so free for the first time, realizing that I don't need N, I don't have to love N, I don't have to "do anything" in my relationship with S, I'm not selfish or defective for being confused and still liking S, and I don't want to possess S. I don't want to possess anyone ever again.

This is a lot to be processing and feeling, and of course, the whole situation is so layered and complicated, which doubles down on how much this is to take in and try and make sense of, as well as cope with.

How can we best help and support you with this?

Hey, I'm back.

First of all, thank you for letting me vomit words and anger and anxieties on this website in Dec.-Jan. I appreciate your support, all of you, but special thanks to Heather for her unparalleled understanding and compassion. I do not know what I would have done without this website.

News: Things are going much, much better now. My mental health now is better than it has been in years. I'm in the midst of college auditions (flying across the country tomorrow for my last major audition), and I'm learning so much. I know not only know what I want to do in college, I know what I want to do in my career, and I even have a pretty clear vision of what the next six or so years will look like career-wise! Finally, I can really invest myself in music and learning again.
I talked to N today, for the first time in a week. We still talk occasionally, but I unequivocally make it clear to him that I do not want a romantic relationship with him or at this time.
I feel much better about my role in my community—that is, my orchestra. I've been practicing and studying a lot lately, so I feel I'm able to be a good section leader and that I'm doing my best. I even have fun sometimes! (Gasp! could that possibly be what music's about?)
As for S, we auditioned for one of the same schools as each other, so I saw him then. I'm focusing on learning to trust myself again and not worry too much about what's right or wrong, safe or bad. I literally had an obsession about him for a long time; lately, I've been finding that it goes away when I don't try to block out all obsessive thoughts or try too hard to be "good" and "normal". When I'm not trying to act normal, somehow, everything comes back to me. Projects, auditions, learning music and physics and microeconomics and math and writing application essays all become more exciting, and ideas start to have life.

I reread the "Intimacy: The Whys, Hows, How-Nots, and So-Nots" article, and it almost makes me tear up. It's the most validating thing anyone could exchange with another person.
I only have 2 full months left here, in my orchestra, and I'm regretting having counted. It does no good to count. I just have to leave myself a little emotionally open, trust that everything will be okay, and that I am loved and valued.

I guess it feels good to finally be able to accept my relationship with S as it is—to not be frustrated by the ever-looming possibility of losing it.

In reality, I can't lose it, because 96% of is in the past, and I will always have had those experiences. I will always have gotten to hear him play Bartók, spent countless hours in sectionals with him, and shared those red-letter-days of auditions, competitions, triumphs, tears, arguments with mothers, disappointments, failures, funerals, recitals, and transcendences.

Enough of this. Every word I say is a rationalization, not the communication of actual feelings to people I don't know who work for a non-profit. What feels good, Doktor Faust? What is it?

What is it, anyway?
You asked me that yesterday about a piece of music we were playing, with wide and sincere bullshit-eyes, as if we could ever touch philosophical stars like they were paper cutouts instead of septillions of cubic kilometers of fire. We laughed out loud in rehearsal, which we shouldn't have done, as we're supposed to be good professionals.

I will never be able to guarantee that everything's okay by my words. I can only be. I cannot control anything, nor do I choose anything.

No, what feels good is knowing that it matters that I love him, and that that's allowed, and is not to be damned for the fact that it's ending or at least changing this May, or that it was never guaranteed. There is no prize for being in a relationship the longest.
No, now, what feels good, exactly, is being allowed to love him fully, without good reason, because he is my friend, and that is how I feel. How I feel is good enough.

I'm not supposed to post my rambles here, but I did...

Oh Faust, that's not how it works.

Why, every morning, when I wake up, does the dilemma with S in all its gruesome terribleness pop into my head? And why do I spend so many hours of every day fighting it off?

I feel like things are never going to get better. Maybe they will when I move across the country and leave all these people and these old issues. But I just want to be good, and I just want to know how to stop.

Even when I go back and picture my real-life relationship with S right now, I feel like everything's fine and I'm okay and I can trust him and I don't need anything more than I have. But then all my months of agonizing and fear creep back out of the recesses of my mind, and all of a sudden my chest hurts so badly I can hardly breathe, and I think I'm dying or completely insane. I'm afraid of those moments. Perhaps the way to get rid of them is to remind myself how bad my imaginary version of our relationship is, to abstain from it. I don't know. I just don't want to be bad.

I guess what I mean is, "How do I not think about him/think about my anger and possessiveness, and lapse back into a very unhealthy relationship?"

I wish I could make myself stop.

It's weird, because if I think of him, S, the actual person, I have no resentment: He's just himself, existing. But for some reason it's not just that. There's also this unplaceable, unpredictable terror.

I think I'm not okay with having things be not okay.

Being okay with things not being totally okay is a pretty healthy way to start seeing change and the beginning of self-care.

As per your feelings about S... I think one of my biggest lessons in relationships/life has been that I can't think my way out of an emotion. Getting myself to do self-care... not as a way of solving my feelings or achieving a goal... has helped me just focus on the feelings and feeling better over time in general, rather than solving whatever problems i thought were causing a bad feeling.

By the way your 'rambles' seem a perfectly good way to process your thoughts... I'm not sure you are looking for any specific questions to be answered but sometimes just writing things down can be a way of processing them. I don't know if you keep a diary outside of here?

Also you've got something of a flair for writing in general! I think that can actually be difficult when we find ourselves conflating your story telling with our actual emotions, it can for some people become difficult to tell them apart... So I wonder if you've done much fictional creative writing? It seems like something which could be helpful... and probably result in some awesome art too!

Hey hey hey!
I figured out what my whole issue is!
It's basically that I've been trying to figure things out... this dates way back from the first moment anything came up in our relationship, back when I was worried he was ignoring me and I spent a ludicrously long time thinking up how I would talk to him about it.
In other words, I can't control things by my will. How it really works: What I will affects my emotions... which affects my actions, which affects other people's actions.
The above is a classic example of me over-thinking and expecting it to do something (i.e. make me happy, therefore making our relationship better.)
That my over-thinking gives me a panicky feeling comes from the first instant I really felt horrible—a horrible want, that is—in regards to my relationship with S. I didn't want to feel that anxiety/lust, so I tried to 'sort it out' with more thinking, and I started suppressing my anxiety so I "wouldn't ruin the relationship further". I became afraid of everything I thought, lest it "harm my feelings" and further destroy our relationship.

I say "I didn't want to feel that anxiety/lust". The first time I felt that burning in my stomach, it was so horrible, so devastating, and moreover, everything I had known with S and about S beforehand was so lovely—the perfect story of friendship evolving into a romantic relationship. I felt like someone was throwing black paint all over the Mona Lisa, and with my hand.

Now, out of habit, whenever I write on this website, I still feel the same panic. My comfort is that I now know that I need not have fear, for the panic doesn't really do anything. S still is here for me, and has been the entire time—as much as he, under his conditions, could, and as much as I would respond. The only sad thing is that we only have two months left together. But there's nothing I can do about that...

Anyway I'm happy because now I finally understand
forget understanding. Damn understanding!

I can have compassion for little sixteen-year-old Faust, who simply was afraid and didn't know what to do.

Yeah, I guess it's that whatever I'm doing to try to change/fulfill my emotions, it's not going to work. All I can do is just feel, and also go about my life.

Yes!

As a veteran overthinker, I get the impression you get it! The upside of this is that it gives you lots of insight and creativity.

So one day, your thinky-brain might save lives... just need to utilise the other tools you have and look after the rest of you too.

Also if you say you panic when you write here do you think you need a Scarleteen Break, or is there anything we can do to help with that?

Hi Jacob,
Thanks again for your support. This website has been invaluable to me. I cannot stress that enough. A few months ago I was nearly suicidal.
I've figured out what "the panic" is, it's residual guilt... It's thinking about how I feel about S (the whole ugly story) instead of literally him as a person. I've been talking to him again lately, and it's the best thing ever. I'm so glad that we've reconciled before graduation, I'm so glad that I have these last two months, and most of all, I finally feel normal again. I don't feel like I have to "watch what I think", nor do I feel terribly guilty. I can't even say it, it's like I'm alive again.


As for N... I still stand by my old point that he has manipulated me. That alone, of course, is not the source of all my problems, but it makes far too much sense. It makes more sense to my gut than "you're supposed to like him because your mom does and look he'll never leave you", when in fact N never shows any emotion towards me other than "I need you! Don't leave me!" No wonder...

Unfortunately, I may have gotten trapped into spending a break tomorrow with N. Even if I avoid it, then it'll still make me feel uncomfortable around S because I'll feel guilty for avoiding N.

I've only texted him once per week for about the last month, and it's felt like a relief.

Being around N doesn't even make me feel good. It makes me feel anxious.
S on the other hand... I love talking to him. I love just spending time with him; it's so comforting. It's exciting, it feels like there's actual motion, direction, like it might go somewhere. It's hopeful.
It's something that's been hard for me to quantify, because N is friendlier and more committed than S; he's smart, it's easy, it's guaranteed, he's better looking according to societal standards, my mom is convinced that N needs company more than S does. I don't think that's true though. In fact, I know it's not. N has few close friends, it's true, but he has many, many acquaintances and casual friends. S has few of either. N is very good at getting, winning, keeping friends; S is terribly shy.

I feel like the biggest red flag is that N sometimes physically touches me even though I've asked him not to.

Well, there you go... I'm not going to let him or him-via-my mom guilt trip me anymore.

You're really not obligated to spend time with N, no matter how he or your mom feel about that. It really doesn't matter HOW great he is, or how great or deserving anyone else thinks he is - that doesn't create any sort of obligation, on your part, to be his friend or hang out with him. No one is entitled to your attention just because they want it.

And the fact that he has touched you after you've asked him not to is, as you say, not good at all; no wonder you feel anxious around him. If it helps to have another voice say this: you don't need to feel bad or guilty about canceling plans with him, or declining to make new ones. You get to have agency over who you choose to spend time and form relationships with.

Nice to see you again Faust! I'm glad you are finding things for you are getting clearer and easier to understand.

Also I am doing some finger-clicking and head-shaking to second what Mo has said. That.

I'm beginning undergrad in September.
I've had a fairly good summer, and have learned a lot. Professionally, I'm doing okay.
I had sex with N two weeks ago, have been really busy since then so haven't thought a lot about it. Not thinking has been nice.
I don't know what love is.
Actually, my accusations of manipulation on N's part are unfounded and absurd. He's needy, sure. But I chose a lot of this stuff myself.
It has been two years since S and I dated for six months, and since then I have been obsessed.
I'm just very depressed. I don't know why, I don't want to take medication, and I am just trying to work hard.