Mixed messages and depression

[Heather]

Hey Heather, thanks so much for all of these resources. It's really nice to be able to talk some of this stuff out as well, and I appreciate the time you've taken with me. I've relied on Scarleteen since I was a very young teen and I can honestly say you all have helped me get through some of the toughest times in my life.

I'm so, so glad we've been able to do that for you, and thanks so much for sharing that with me.

Was just thinking of you today and hoping you're hanging in there.

[Stuck11]

Hey Heather, I'm certainly trying. Today has been kind of hard. Just letting heartbreak wash over me (at least inasmuch as my brain will allow). In the last two days, I've returned from a work trip back home, where all of the relationship deterioration is happening. I keep getting hooked by tiny hopes that things will get better. Yesterday he said he wished we could stay living together as friends, then get a new place come September. (Consciously I know that that isn't a workable avenue, but it still made it seem like he wanted the connection). Today when I came home, he seemed in a decent mood and invited me out for drinks with some friends. Then he had a difficult phone conversation with his mom about borrowing some money to move out / get by.

He came to me afterward, said she'd been really harsh with him, and hadn't returned the sentiment when he said he loved her. That made me very sad, and emotionally I hurt for him. It made me feel like he still trusted me with the difficult stuff--things like mom not being loving or supportive. In trying to comfort him, I said something that didn't land right. He then went out for drinks without me and said he needed to do more things by himself. I understand that he's trying to re-build himself apart from me, but the revoked invitation hurt. It just felt hopeful for a second, I guess.

I realize how all of this sounds. I don't really recognize myself when I start operating in these painful grooves. I feel super alone, even though consciously I realize the feeling is mostly due to a toxic situation. I still have my friends at work, my family, and the bigger world. I'll be able to move forward eventually.

But sometimes I think about all of the hurts people endure when very young--how those hurts isolate us and must be overcome--and I wonder how many casualties that process claims. Relationships are somewhat trial-and-error, and ideally you make the journey and learn along the way...until you reach a reality that's truly fulfilling. I just can't stop wondering about the people who get stuck, or make an ill-fated detour, and never really learn to connect.

I'm probably being melodramatic because I'm getting sick (yay stress!). I'm just dreading the next few months, because repairing myself--and moving forward--requires me to define my partner in more concrete ways. That part of breakups always feels so dishonest. I start throwing around terms like "emotionally unavailable," "self-absorbed," etc, and lose sight of the person I loved. I want to be accountable for my part in the relationship's dissolution and carry that knowledge with me. But I sense that my brain's going to oversimplify everything and create a victim/perpetrator narrative around all this crap. I don't want to make him the enemy because he is, fundamentally, an incredible human being.

[Heather]

This doesn't sound melodramatic to me. I can also really relate to this, tbh, particularly the bits where when someone like this acts this way, it can be so easy to get swooped up in the all-about-themness of everything and lose yourself in it. Too, those terms you're using for him? They sound pretty accurate right now. I'm so sorry.

Can I ask you: when was the last time he asked about you? How you are, and what he can do to help make all of this easier on you? I hear, in your posts, what sounds like pretty much nothing but talking about and concern for himself. I see you identifying some of his talk about himself as evidence he still wants to be close to you, but I am not actually seeing you centered in any way, or even basically considered.

I also want to share something personal with you in the event it's useful to you and rings true. (If not, feel free to dump or dismiss!)

I have myself often gotten stuck in the trap of thinking that someone who doesn't usually share vulnerable things with others sharing them with me is a statement of how that person feels about me when it comes to things like love or trust. (In fact, I only recently got all the way out of an almost decade-long relationship with someone who "did" intimacy this way -- I don't know what else to call it, because I am not sure it really is intimacy at all, though I think it can masquerade as such, including to the person doing the sharing.)

I call it a trap, though, because especially when it's one-sided, I'm not sure that's necessarily what that kind of sharing is. In hindsight, having found myself in that spot far more than once, I always have to wonder if what that actually is is just that they know they can do that with me and not have to actually consider me; not have to take turns holding space for me in a bad spot; and maybe some of them even know that it's one way to keep me around without having to actually give me anything. After all, what really are we given when someone shares vulnerable things with us, but isn't actually supportive of us besides a burden we now share carrying, when they don't have to do the same? I mean, yes, he might still want to be connected to you. I can see very much how that benefits him: how does it benefit you? Connecting with you brings good things into his life: what does your connection with him bring you? I see you talking a lot about the painful scary spot he's in: does he recognize, at all, the same is very much true for you?

I also can really relate to how those bits of hope that someone might actually be connecting with us in a real way only to discover that they probably weren't and how very much they sting. Again, I'm so sorry. <3

[Stuck11]

Hey Heather, I've been thinking a lot about your question, re: When was the last time he asked about how I'm handling this, and how he could make it easier? I don't really remember... probably several months ago when we first broached the idea of a break. We had a couple of conversations about basic house rules, but he hasn't asked about my well-being much at all. He has occasionally acknowledged creating a "disgusting vibe" in my apartment, and said he regrets what he's put me through.

After we had a major conversation about him moving out ASAP, I said something to the effect of "I need to pull a blanket of safety over myself. I need to rebuild." He didn't really understand why that might be. I don't think he understands the emotional sway he has over me, and why I would feel threatened by that. We're just not on the same page as far as understanding.

I'm not sure whether I view occasional shares of personal information as a trap... But I do pick up on what you're pointing out: that reciprocated emotional support matters.

Right now, I will say that he's not adding much to my experience. He used to be better company--we'd cook together, go on walks, find parks to explore. He always had a sense of humor and would help me calm down if I was stressed. But yea, things have dropped off really sharply in the last 3 months.

Still, I find myself struggling to think of this break as permanent. I'm holding on to some hope that maybe he will get healthier. People tell me that he's unlikely to want to get back together once he's in a more connected phase of his life. (Because why would he want to revisit a bad period?) Do you think there's any reasonable chance that this ends up with us together and fulfilled? Or should I just go about it in a way that says, "I give up. I have to operate on the assumption that there's no future for us. It can't work" ?

I just can't wrap my head around it.

[Heather]

You know, I think that it probably doesn't serve you well to focus on whether or not this break will be permanent right now. That strikes me as something that is more likely to keep you stuck in the relationship patterns and ways of thinking that aren't really helping you out.

I don't think you need to come at this -- not yet, anyway -- in a way where you assume any kind of long-term outcome. I think you can handle this in the moment, and for only the near future, and not only is that all you'll really be able to predict or know much about in the first place, I also think it's the better way to go for you. Additionally, I suspect that you're going to go through a whole bunch of thoughts and feelings once you finally have some real space and time to focus on yourself -- and to be outside of this -- that will give you more information over time about what you actually want. For all you know, once you're more outside of this, and likely experience things like actually having an environment in which you can actually center yourself, and the ability to live outside these dynamics, *you* may *want* this to be permanent. Or not. Who knows, just yet. Either way, though, I'd wait to make decisions about that and to focus on it until you do have more of that experience and thus, more information about what you even want.

I'm so sorry that you've been so dismissed and disregarded in this. Deep depression can certainly make people suffering from it very self-absorbed, but this maybe feels to me more like someone already self-absorbed (and maybe even narcissistic?) then ALSO being even more so because of depression. I'm really glad you've been speaking up for yourself, though: I hope you can keep growing a stronger sense of yourself in this, especially since it seems like your partner...well, isn't being much of a partner and also clearly isn't seeing you in this much at all. That's not right, and you deserve much better than this.

[Stuck11]

Thanks again for your response and for all the time you've taken with me. I'll try to stop focusing so much on the long term and just try to get through this. I'll stop writing here soon, but there is one other thing that is driving me insane. I have this lingering feeling that I have been too demanding in the past, causing him to feel emotionally flooded and crappy. I know I've offloaded my moods onto him too much sometimes, and haven't taken appropriate responsibility for them. E.g. not taking space to calm down, exploding when he would shut down, just generally exacerbating negative communication cycles. When he first moved in with me, I was so freaked out and anxious that I over-focused on household chores that didn't get done, or the amount of time spent together (or lack of it). He was just trying to survive and I think the relationship felt like too much of drain.

Obviously we both played a role in the dissolution of things, and we're now on the quieter, more distant side of that. I feel like I'm behaving better now in some ways, but I wonder sometimes if I was the demanding/narcissistic one and now he's simply pulled back for the sake of his mental health. I just struggle with that knowledge of having been overbearing in trying to get any of my needs met. It's so confusing--can't tell if I'm the 'messer' or the 'messee' or what.

[Heather]

You don't have to stop writing here unless you want to, just FYI. We've had some users who we literally talked to every few days -- sometimes more! -- for YEARS. You get to use this service for as long or short a time as you want.

In terms of your concerns about yourself, I personally find that kind of question/concern really great for bringing to a therapist or some other counselor. That's the kind of thing you can work through with someone so you can really do a good evaluation of those worries, and, should any of them have merit, you can also get help working on them. Alternately, if none of them have merit, you can start working on what's got you feeling that way.

My feelings about what you've said though, are this: if there have been problems coming from both sides, I'd be looking for both people to be trying to address them and work through them. I find it unlikely the way he's behaving now is about what happened in the past, but the common thread in all those times seems to be that you're concerned about the relationship, you're asking for help with it, you're trying to take your own inventory to take responsibility for your own stuff, you're putting a lot of time and energy and heart into evaluating this, you're still expressing real concern for him and... you guessed it, he's not. When it comes to all those things and more, it just seems like the likely biggest problem you have here may well be that one of you is just much more invested in this than the other. And if that's the case, then no matter what you did or didn't do -- plus his nature and circumstances given -- we'd probably be here eventually.

But if you want to talk about any of those ways of behaving now or later, we can do that. I'd just suggest in the meantime you also check yourself right now for trying to find a way to make this your fault. <3

[Stuck11]

Hey Heather, I hope you're doing well. I've taken a lot of what you've said to heart, but I'm writing now because I'm feeling very alone and sort of despairing. My ex partner has finally signed a lease to move out July 1. That's definitely a good thing. But things seem to be deteriorating by the day--and it's hard for me to calm my whole attachment system down. He's been going out to bars a lot by himself lately, and often he comes back late in the evening. Sometimes he'll leave the house without saying anything, so I'll come out and just realize that he's disappeared. Sometimes I'll text to see if he's gone to the bar and he'll respond with, "Maybe. Why?" My whole gut/intuition is going haywire. I keep getting the strong feeling that he is seeing someone or not being fully honest with me. He has said he's not moving on or looking for anyone right now and just wants to spend time by himself (usually at the bar right down the street). I try to believe him; I realize that my body and brain are probably just over-activated. But regardless, it feels like he's avoiding me because I cause him pain or make him feel oppressed. He's also coping/grieving in this unhealthy way, which I've learned (over time) causes negative repercussions in my life. E.g. it now makes me anxious. I asked him to take it easy on the nights out until we're living separately, and he initially agreed to check in and at least not be so sketchy when he takes off. But since these bar nights are so regular now and make me so uncomfortable, I did make a stupid snooping attempt that he found out about. He's thrown around that I'm being controlling, like a warden. I know that the snooping was wrong and I regret it deeply.

I feel like a shitty partner and a bad person. And I think worry that he's going to remember me at my worst like this. I tried to explain later on that I was panicking because of the "in-your-face distance" he's created--that I can't escape. I tried to explain how much pain and discomfort I had been in, stuck in this living situation. He took it personally, started talking over me, said he'd done the best he could to move out. He interpreted it as me saying "You're not good enough." I'm so so heartbroken by all of the negative filters he puts my words through. He's just in such a defensive, lonely place.

I know we're both engaging unhealthily and I'm so sad about how far we've fallen. It sucks.

I've been doing a lot of research--perhaps stupidly--about attachment styles. I think we fall into an anxious-avoidant sort of cycle. Not sure if you think any of that stuff has merit but it seems to apply here. https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/avoida ... ma-0201184
^This describes him to a tee.

I'm trying to stay sane and distance myself but it is not working. I feel like, once he moves out, he's just going to put me in a box in his memory. Like I caused him to feel all these negative things about himself, his work, his life. Like my very being caused him to retreat over time. I'm pretty sure he blames our period of long distance for the loss of his job. Instead of owning the fact that he took on too many outside projects, showed up at noon, struggled to communicate with superiors...he always cites the fact that I wanted to connect with him on the phone or via Google video a couple times a week. (He always seemed so put upon, even though I am sure he loved me). He now indicates that his weekend visits to me once or twice a month were one of the major reasons for the job loss. He makes it sound like he regrets spending money on long-distance too sometimes, but when I point it out he says that's not what he meant.

I'm left feeling totally ashamed for trying to make the relationship work, for having an expectation of how often we would see each other while living in separate cities. I feel like I can't live with the negative marks he's painted me with, because I don't think I deserve them.

I'm sure he's going to try and be strictly platonic with me in a few weeks--and I can almost picture him re-explaining his reasons for breaking up--only this time with some "added perspective." He's going to make me feel like he lost himself because of my demands, that I neglected my own goals and don't have enough of a vision for my life, that I made him responsible for my emotions, that he loved me once but doesn't anymore. I hate that whole blaming/resentful vibe, and I can already sense him building such a narrative. I want to challenge it, but I know that he will likely never see the truth of what I am and how I have acted. It makes me want to explode.

I am so angry at the whole situation that my chest actually hurts. I am sick of being made into the enemy. It is exhausting. Maybe I'm being vain for even caring so much about how he sees me. My whole self-image has gotten twisted up, and I'm sure that his has too (perhaps for different reasons though). I wish he had moved out earlier so that things wouldn't have become as broken and horrible as they are now.

I am trying to stay calm for the last couple of days but it is hard. I offered to help with the move-out or the packing and now I sort of regret it. I mistakenly thought he'd be moving on Sunday. Now he's asking if I'll be able to take off work on Monday. Maybe I should just steer clear of our apartment altogether on the day of the move. Probably better for self-preservation. How the hell do things become so toxic between people who are fundamentally decent/good? Something feels really unjust about it.

[Siân]

Hi there,

I hope you dont mind me dropping in before Heather gets here. I've been following this thread and it sounds like you're dealing with a LOT right now. I'm so sorry that things feel extra hopeless in this moment and for the general lack of consideration this person is showing. For what it's worth, it's great that they've finally made that step to get themselves a place - I get that it hurts but it sounds like a really positive step for both of you.

I had a couple of broader thoughts to share, if they help.

First, and most importantly, you are not a shitty partner or a bad person. You've done your best in a hard situation. I hear you worrying a lot about how he is going to think of or describe you later but the thing is you don't have control of his narrative, and you probably can't change the stories he's going to tell himself about this chapter. Which only leaves you with the almost as hard option of letting go of how HE thinks and feels and focusing on YOU; your story, your healing, your connections to yourself and the world. I can tell you one thing for certain, all this blame he's putting on you for his choices is deeply unfair.

Now he's moving out though, what's next for you? Are you going to set some no contact time to save you burning up all your energy on him? Have you made some good plans for yourself? Maybe block out some time a week from now to spend on something positive for yourself once the move is done. What feels like it would be good? Perhaps time reclaiming your space through reorganising or decorating, time reconnecting to yourself by cooking/writing/watching your favourite film/dancing or time with friends where you know you get to go home to your own apartment in peace.

You're right that this is unjust, and you get to be upset. You mentioned up the thread that we're responsible for our own happiness, and that's true. Our partners aren't there to make us happy, but a poor relationship can definitely make us unhappy, and needing some time to heal is nothing to be ashamed of.

[Amanda F]

Hey Stuck11,

This all sounds really tough - I'm so sorry that there are a lot of hard feelings coming up around your partner moving out, and where you're both going from here. If you feel like one, *hug*.

I read the whole thread and I just want to say - I am really impressed by how you have advocated for yourself, how you have set boundaries, and how you have made decisions that you knew were best for you even in the face of your changing relationship. It can be really hard to end/change things, especially if there's the potential for them to improve. So, great job on all of those things.

I have been in situations where I had to set boundaries and/or ask my partner to make big changes because something wasn't working for me/us. Sometimes I felt bad, but I also had to remember that I was responsible for taking care of myself and my own mental health. This is not a punishment for your (ex?) partner; this is you taking good care of yourself. Although seeing them struggling can bring up feelings of distress, you still set a good boundary by asking them to move out, because it seems like that was the only way for things to improve.

Right now I know it feels really important to know "what will happen to us?", but if you can, try to give yourself a break from trying to decide that. You've just been through a really stressful month, and you and your partner are going to be navigating a new way of interacting now that you're living separately. It will probably take some time (a few weeks? a couple of months?) for you both to figure out what you want.

While you're figuring that out, maybe you could spend some time reconnecting with yourself, and just observing how you feel. What's it like now that your partner has moved out? What feelings are you experiencing? Is the stress/anxiety still there; is it different? You've been through a really tough time, and you deserve to rest and ease into this new phase.

I hope the move-out goes well and I send supportive thoughts!

[Stuck11]

Thanks to both of you for being there and offering some perspective. You're really kind to say that I've been good at setting boundaries. I feel kind of like a doormat I have been trying to plot out what I'll do after he eventually leaves--the anxiety has been such an intense presence for the last three months that I think I'll probably feel blank for a while. I've made some plans to visit a friend out of town this upcoming weekend, and I'm trying to identify things that feel cathartic. A lot of cleaning and yoga probably.

Unfortunately though, my partner has hit a snag with his move-out. He found a place, but the lease signing has been very delayed. Now a couple of things have cropped up which have made him think the whole arrangement could be a scam. I don't want to force him out into a risky situation. We'll see how things develop I guess. My guess is that it will be a while longer before he leaves....Most of his stuff is packed though. The helpless feeling continues. I'm trying to indicate to him that I'm on his side but that we need to work toward a solution together as fast as possible.

I'm taking an anxiety medication to help keep some of the more extreme feelings at bay. It's like trying to keep the lid on a boiling pot though. When I found out today that he may not be out of the apartment on July 1 as planned, I spiraled a little bit. It's unfortunate, because I could tell by the way we were communicating up until then, that there was relief and calm. We both thought we had a plan and some momentum. He even applied for a better-paying job in tech and had me read over the cover letter yesterday. Fingers crossed that this apartment stuff works itself out.

[Sam W]

Hi Stuck,

It's completely understandable that this setback would make your anxiety spike. As you said, you thought you had a plan and that things were progressing the way you needed them to. Now you've learned that a major source of anxiety is going to be hanging around for longer, and that can set off a lot of intense feelings. Are there other tools that you're combining with the medication to address you anxiety? That could be work with a counselor, as well as techniques and exercises that help you address stressors in your daily life (too, at a certain point a situation like this one is going to create some anxiety for you because it's stressful by its very nature. So part of getting through it might be accepting that fact and preparing to ride the stress out).

Cleaning, yoga, and visiting friends all sound like excellent plans for dealing with the shifts his moving out may create. With the deadline for moving out coming and going today, have you already set a new one? I ask because, while he may indeed be hitting snags in finding housing, there's also a chance he's looking for ways to keep you from actually making him leave. Sometimes, when you set a firm boundary with someone, they'll start doing what you needed them to all along (applying for jobs, looking for his own place) for awhile, then gradually slip back into the old patterns. Sometimes that's deliberate, other times it's accidental, but it can leave the person who set the boundary in a tight spot. On the one hand, all the stressful patterns and behaviors are still there, but on the other the person seems to be trying to improve so maybe you'll feel like a jerk if you hold the limit you set (spoiler: you are not a jerk for setting a boundary).

The reason I bring all that up is that it might help for you to figure out what the absolute limit is for you in terms of a timeline for him moving out. Is there a date by which, no matter what other snags he may hit, he needs to not be in your space anymore ? Or does even thinking about that kind of limit leave you feeling guilty or stressed?

[Heather]

Stuck: you’ve had a handful of responses, so I don’t want to overwhelm you with another biggie from me right now. But if you want it, holler: I certainly have a few things to echo here and a couple to add.

But also, in the event you need someone to just be mad at this guy, I have that to offer, too.

[Stuck11]

Hey Heather, thanks. I'm always open to hear what you have to say. You all have been a bulwark for me in a really difficult time. Luckily my partner did end up resolving his questions about the lease. No scam, he says. I'm helping him move some of his stuff out on the 4th of July and I think we might have dinner or something together before he goes. He repeatedly brings up the idea of me moving under the same roof when my lease ends, so that we'd be like roommates. I keep shunting that conversation down the road or try to avoid it altogether.

So it looks like it's finally wrapping up--at least this chapter. I'm scared of the emptiness that comes after, but I'm hoping my natural self pings back into existence before too long. Definitely have some internal repairs to make, both on my own and with a counselor. It's kind of amazing how much stuff about your life and your family and your inner dialogue gets more obvious in moments of transition/loss. I just hope I can handle it all... Seems like better days are ahead.

[Heather]

I'm really glad to hear that it seems to may be at the end of this stage of this saga. I totally get feeling the way you are about it, including the uncertainty, and I get how intimidating that can be. (I also totally hear you about all the emotional and historical dust loss and change can kick up: AND HOW.)

I hope that after this goes down you'll still hang around and keep talking. I strongly suspect that by all means, you'll experience some grief, because of course, this *is* a loss. But I also think some of the emptiness you might feel may be about how it can feel -- at first -- if and when you get into codependent patterns and then there's no one to be that way with. I do think if you can get to the other side of that, though, you might actually surprise yourself by finding you feel a LOT better: a lot more stable, a lot less precarious, much more able to offer yourself more for yourself, just to start with a few things. We're certainly glad to keep giving you support throughout. <3

[Amanda F]

Hi Stuck - I'm glad to hear your partner has a solid move-out date. Your boundary is in effect, and it worked the way you intended it to. I don't think you are a doormat at all!

Like Heather said, this is a good place to process some of those difficult emotions that are already popping up. I like the saying "You have made it through 100% of your hard days." : You've already been through some pretty tough stuff, but you've made it through them to this point. You can always look back if you're feeling low and think "I had a really tough time, but I got through it - and I'll get through this time/feeling too." And hopefully, it won't take long at all for some of those hard emotions to give way to some relief at being out of this difficult situation.

Wishing you well!

[Stuck11]

Hey Heather, I just wanted to talk a bit if you're able to. My ex/partner moved out on July 4th with my help. He seems to have found a good place that will meet all of his needs. It's about 35 minutes away from where I live, which is probably for the best. My apartment is now very empty, and I've had a few unsteady days. It's not been crippling, though very disorienting.

I'm experiencing a lot of shame and anxiety around something that I've already had trouble expressing outright. On the night of the move-out, me and my ex/partner went out to grab some dinner. Earlier in the week, we had sort of admitted to one another that we may just have different needs for intimacy, time together, preferred styles of relating, etc. We kind of looked at each other and said, "Probably not changeable... But who knows, right?"

Anyway, at dinner later that week, my partner basically suggested that "We should just hang out as two admittedly different people and see what happens. Though not if you're seeing anyone, because that would be weird I guess." I clarified, "So we'd be dating?" And he said, "Kind of? I don't know." The gist of it was that he wants to go back to the basic building blocks of a friendship/relationship, almost like starting over from scratch. He's basically said he won't be pursuing anyone else or doing anything "to threaten our friendship." The implicit message was that, if we are to continue as friends, I am not to see anybody else either. He then starting talking in terms of "we" again. Like, "We've always done things in a slightly unorthodox way, and in the end I think we'll be fine." Presumably as a couple.

Since he's moved out, I now feel somewhat haunted and trapped by this conversation. Obviously the dissolution of our previous relationship is still very new, and there are a lot of mixed emotions flying around. But I'm suddenly panicking. I feel like I can't separate from the relationship. I feel like I'm still in it...only a breadcrumbs, scary, uncertain version of it. I understand that he needs to rebuild himself, his mental health, and his career before he can seriously contemplate a 'real relationship' again.

This is where things get gross, and where I start feeling like an awful person. Right now, I have less than a 10% hope that our relationship will recover from all this.... at least in anything resembling the 'short term.' I think, for us to ever come back together more comfortably, we're going to have to grow separately for a while. And honestly, this whole situation has drained most of my faith. We've always had a somewhat shaky foundation--and I don't think either of us felt fully satisfied or comfortable. It was an insecure connection. I never felt like he paid enough attention to me, or was interested enough in all that I was about. At first, things were good and there was a lot of connection and support. But it's hard for me to even remember those days now, given all this recent darkness and negativity.

While I have NO intention of dating anyone else in the near future, I do have sexual curiosity about other people, and just general curiosity about what other relationships might be like. In fact, I actually can't imagine pinning all my sexual hopes on my ex/partner, given how our 'relationship' looks now and what little security I feel with him. Even if things were better between us, I still can't imagine being monogamous from now until forever. Of course, I don't know what it would be like if he were suddenly "Mr. Attentive," willing to explore my interests and really go the distance with emotionally. Maybe then I'd feel safer in the vulnerability that is monogamy. Who knows.

Overall, the sexual curiosity thing has been with me for a long time. Years even. I've always felt guilty and torn about it, unable to express it. I think my ex/partner has picked up on it--and doesn't necessarily judge me for it given that he's had more sexual experience. But I don't think he's amenable to some type of open relationship.

Since things started to fall apart, we haven't had sex regularly. So in probably December or January he just stopped pursuing me. My approaches were always met with rejection and he was never willing to be fully open about what was happening. I knew it was evidence of things collapsing; he seemed as though he'd already checked out. He says that, no, he was reacting to my having distanced myself emotionally. Chicken or the egg. Maybe we waited too long to try and fix it. (I suggested a counselor and we went twice before he refused).

I feel like I'm being dishonest with him on some level, but I'm not sure what is appropriate to disclose. Should I just sit with these thoughts for a while? Do I tell him about all of this sexual stuff? Am I giving him false hopes by continuing to hang out with him at this time? I've found it difficult to establish boundaries, in terms of needing space to think and heal.

(I will admit that I feel totally bipolar about our relationship--sometimes I still feel like I'm letting the closest person in my life walk away, that we're wrecking something rare and special. Sometimes this new reality feels utterly surreal and wrong).

I think I reacted very strongly to him declaring a break because, on some level, I am vain and I wanted to know why he pulled away from me. I felt like he had been dishonest with me for several months before, living under the same roof and never expressing his concerns productively. I felt abandoned and given up on, even though on some level I had done the same to him. I wish above EVERYTHING that there was a way to repair all of this, but I'm so doubtful. I was (and am) broken about the whole thing.

What confessions do I owe him, as someone who cares deeply but may have lost hope and will to continue the relationship? I don't know how I will feel down the road, or whether time will bring some flash of insight or clarity. I want to do what is best for us both, but I also don't want to kill the small chance of us being okay together again. How do I stay honest while not dragging him through the much of my confusion?

Should I let these thoughts shake out a bit more before I say anything? I keep envisioning him getting healthy, coming out of the depression, building up his life, and then being able to reconnect in a real way with me. I am having a really hard time letting go, given that this breakup was so infused with depression and other factors like job loss. It makes everything so much more confusing and open-ended. I really feel like my mind can't handle all the if's and wait-and-see's.

[Heather]

Hey there. I'm glad that he did at least follow through with the move. I know it's fresh, and of course you're going to have a whole range of feelings -- most of which will likely be sharpest while this this so new -- but I ultimately think this is a very good change for you that I think will be best for you. I also don't think there's anything gross about you or things you've said, or wants you have here, for the record. What you're saying actually sounds very healthy to me, and I think that when it feels right to you, it would probably be great for you to explore dating/sex with other people.

My gut feeling (which may or may not be accurate) is that he's asking for this because he wants to have his cake and eat it too, in a way. He wants to be able to have all the things and space for himself he wants but also wants to keep you on the hook in case it turns out he can't handle that or doesn't want that. If that's what he's doing, I certainly think you deserve better than to be a bit of a stand-in, you know?

Even if that's not what he's doing, I can get why you feel trapped. Even him asking you about this at the time he did actually feels quite like a trap to me, too: it's really not okay to ask someone something like this in the middle of such a huge and emotional change. It's manipulative and coercive, in my book. At best, it's extraordinarily self-absorbed, and that does seem to be on-brand for this guy. . I get why you feel like you can't separate from this: it doesn't sound like this person is willing to let you, and, of course, you have your own patterns in falling back into this and, I think again, in the codependence of this.

I think that above and beyond all else, it is important you actually set limits and boundaries with him: you have to figure out how to do that for yourself, period. And if it turns out he just won't let you, then obviously you have to start doing what you need to do to just get him out of your life, altogether, because that's not healthy for you (or anyone). I am also personally a big fan of honesty and having integrity when it comes to it, but truly, for you, I think that's secondary. You don't owe this guy jack at this point around all this, IMO, but I do think you owe yourself the self-respect and the chance to really start standing up for yourself and what you need and want, not just working with and around what he does.

So, the best advice I think I have to give you is to suggest that you just talk to him in whatever method of communication you feel strongest. I think you should tell him that you are not going top be making any kind of commitments to him right now, that it wasn't fair or considerate for him to ask you to given the situation, and that you're sorry you agreed to a thing you're turning around with but you are, and no, you will not be dating him right now or making exclusivity agreements. I also think that it would probably be best for you to not see each other for a month or so: so you can have a chance to start to learn to separate, and get a breather from building your everything around this guy (and his enabling of that).

I think all of this is what would be best for you, but too, if you're to have any kind of shot at some form of healthy relationship with this person, I think this sets a better foundation for that than staying in this pressured (IMO) agreement you don't want and being dishonest -- including letting him continue to believe a) the way he keeps behaving with you is acceptable and b) that you are dating or exclusive in any way. I also think if you're to have any chance at a healthy relationship of any kind together, you have to actually have time to mourn this loss and experience a life that doesn't revolve around him.

What do you think?

[Stuck11]

Hey Heather, thanks once again for this thoughtful response. I guess I'm afraid to do this even though I know it's right. I feel like he might interpret it as me wanting him gone from my life going forward...no matter how carefully I word the message. In part because he's ill and also in part because he's 'my way or the highway' right now. I'm scared to put up that boundary. While I realize this is not the type of dynamic that's healthy or sustainable, I guess I'm also trying to keep him in my life. It really sucks. Some days it feels like I would look forward to seeing him.

I think he actually wanted a 'clean break' at first, with no boundaries. Then he kind of waffled back and forth on that, because I think he became aware that I might choose to see other people and move on. But also, I think he misinterpreted me while we were living together. When he was going to bars a lot alone during that time, I became very anxious about the idea that he might be seeing or pursuing someone. I basically asked that he wait until after he moved out to do that sort of thing. He said that was never on his mind, and was actually impossible for him to fathom emotionally. But, seeing my insecurity around all that, I think he felt like he had to give me a guarantee of continued exclusivity during the "break" too. Maybe this will free him from some anxiety too.

I don't think he's lying about wanting to see anyone. But I do want us both to experience the 'free' headspace once again. Perhaps I should phrase it like, "I don't plan to pursue people in the near future and am focused on re-centering and healing. Regardless, I don't think we should be making commitments to one another simply so we can get in the habit of living separate lives and being open to our feelings." What do you think? I don't want him to think I'm wriggling to date others and forget about him. I don't want him to worry in an emotionally peaked period like this. I DO want to frame it as "We can't date or hang out right now" though. Too wishy washy?

[Heather]

I think that how you do this has a lot to do with how you think you CAN. If what you said above feels like the only way you can right now -- or the best way for you -- then I think that's the way to go. But I do also think that adding an ask for some time apart -- no dinners, no hanging out, no him using you (still) as his only pr primary emotional support -- is important for you. It's just hard for me to see, with the dynamics between you, how you're going to start to separate and break some of these patterns otherwise, you know?

In this conversation, I'd also encourage you to not engage with some responses he might have, like if he suggests this is about you trying to date others (which isn't even his business anymore, IMHO, remember, THIS is the person who's been totally checking out with you except when it comes to his own needs, after all, it's not the other way round), I'd just say something like, "That's not what's going on here, but that's also not a conversation I want to have right now."

If he suggests this is about you no longer wanting to center him in everything and think about him 24/7....well, hopefully this IS part of that, but that is a thing you need to do to take care of yourself no matter what. So a way not to engage with a response like that might just be, "I need to make myself my center, period, not you or other people." If this guy's love or attention is conditional in the respect that you HAVE to make him the center of everything, then I think we really should be talking about how you can get over this relationship and be done with this guy.

I also think it'd be worth it for you to just start thinking about how you can look forward to seeing someone who also is bad for you. In other words, even if someone really isn't good for us, we can still feel happy to see them or want to. I'm not sure that figuring out what to do here, in other words, should be about if you'd feel good about seeing him. I think a better center as you think about this would be to think about what actually is best for your well-being, what really benefits your life, what relationships do and don't ask you to have to reconsider or go without basic boundaries as a condition if the other person wanting to be around you. <3

[Stuck11]

I think that what you're saying is true---and I'm planning on taking your advice. Couple of things keep cropping up in my mind though. I ended up doing the 'no contact' thing once before after a previous ex asked for a break. The starkness of it kind of backfired in the short-term. We ended up missing each other and feeling that scarcity so much that we fell right back into each other's arms after a month. It ended up being a yo-yo relationship which ended. Maybe, because I was younger, I was too focused on the rejection and not enough on building my own happiness during the break. Either way, I'm kind of concerned about that happening again... I almost want to set a lighter boundary than 'no contact'. Or if I do go 'No Contact,' give him the opportunity to at least say bye, collect his stuff, etc. That way he's got a warning and won't go all haywire and 're-develop' feelings purely in response to the scarcity feeling. I don't want fake anything--I do want this to be a positive shift in the direction of my life.

For me though, you're right. It would be easier not to have to worry about him reaching out and casually checking in for a while. Just to have that be off the table.

Part of me is saying, however, that he won't actually reach out to me. That I'm making a big boundary declaration in the face of someone who won't end up pursuing contact anyway. At least not for a while. When I think about that, I feel sort of petty, like someone who is making a stand instead of just letting things disappear as they would naturally.

He's definitely not comfortable around me right now, and I'm likewise with him. Ugh.

[Heather]

I think the thing I see missing in that past experience you're talking about is anything that addresses that it's not passive to get back together: you say you "fell back," but of course, in reality, you both make choices and took actions. That wasn't passive, though I can understand it might have felt that way, like something outside of your control.

If you're into it -- regardless of what you decide to do about asking for a break or change in contact -- I'd be happy to talk/brainstorm with you about ways you can really take more charge and feel as in control as you actually are.

In terms of feeling like there's no need for a boundary about contact, can I ask who set up/made the dinner plans this last interaction happened with? Was that him or you who initiated that contact?

[Stuck11]

Hey Heather, in answer to your question, he suggested that we get dinner that night as a thank-you for me helping him move. We had been finished taking all of his boxes and things to the new place earlier that day and we were hungry. Since then, he hasn't really suggested that we hang out or anything. He's texted me with a few random things, but not every day.

I did mention that he had some mail come to the apartment, and he said he'd come pick it up... gave me his schedule etc. I think that might've been a bid, but I don't know. I told him that I could leave the mail outside at the box or hand it over--and that I'm still trying to figure out how to be. He said, "Yes, I understand. Keep me updated!" Then he sent me a goodnight message, told me to get some rest.

It's become pretty clear to me that he and I are in different places emotionally. I haven't initiated any contact in a couple of days, and it's all starting to hit me. I'm trying to take all the mixed messages and firm them up into the only conclusion I can: "This person is not able to really see me right now, regardless of the reason. He can't be a partner. I need to stop trying to sift through all the ambiguity and just take care of myself."

Deep down, it feels over. I spent a lot of time talking with my mom about everything and she couldn't figure out why he didn't leave the apartment earlier... and why he couldn't empathize with me in that uncomfortable situation.

For the last week, I've wobbled between shock, seething anger, and tears. It's a dead feeling.

I wouldn't mind brainstorming about how to feel more empowered. I've given myself two weeks to flop around and feel shell-like, then declare whatever boundaries or forward trajectory I should. I'm just going to work and coming home and watching movies. The next thing will probably be more exercise. I don't know.

One of my co-worker friends called me last night when I failed to show up at an after-work bar meetup. (I've been trying to avoid alcohol because I end up feeling sadder than when I started). He basically berated me for not showing up for my life in general, not realizing that things my choice. He kept urging me to get out there and "be around humans" and, presumably, have rebound sex with random people. I told him to be patient with me, and he asked if I was really okay. Though he was being kind of harsh after a few drinks, I took a lot of his message to heart and just felt like crap afterward. I guess I'm not ready for those kinds of conversations around sex and showing up.

This particular coworker always makes comments that are on the edge of being disrespectful to women, though. His approach made me miss my partner a lot--HE always saw women as real people, not objects to go through or have random sex with. That was one of the things I loved about him. The world is looking real harsh right now.

[Sam W]

Hi Stuck,

I wanted to chime in about a few things that jump out at me from your answer.

One is that you're making some really sound choices in terms of taking care of yourself, like steering clear of alcohol because you know it won't mix well with how you're feeling. That in and of itself is an example of you taking charge; you're making the decision that is best for you, even if it's not one that everyone understands.

Speaking of which, your co-worker acted like a total jerk. You don't check on a friend and then yell at them for not dealing with an incredibly difficult situation in the way you think is right. It sucks that you had to deal with the messages he was imparting on top of all the other intense feelings you're going through. If it helps to counteract some of those crappy feelings, remember that there's no one "right" way to respond to a major relationship ending. We each have to cope in the ways that work best for us. In your case, not only are you still mourning the loss of the relationship, you're also recovering from months of pouring a ton of energy into another person without getting any support in return. It makes a lot of sense that you'd pick "have some time where I don't have to worry about interacting with anyone but myself" over "go out and have to expend a lot of energy on interacting with others" (I do think spending time with friends and family will be good in the long run, but from our conversations here it's pretty clear you already know that).

Are those feelings you're having about the world looking harsh related to feeling like you lost the one guy who didn't fall into gross or sexist behaviors?

To get back to the idea of feeling empowered/in charge, exercise sounds like an excellent place to start! Getting into your body is a good way to feel your own power (in both a literal and metaphorical sense). In terms of other things to try, are there things you like to do, or people you like to spend time with, that make you feel like the best version of yourself when you do them? Or things that usually give you a sense of satisfaction and a job well done?

[Stuck11]

Hey Sam, thanks for your response. It actually makes me cry, because you hit upon something that's very real. I feel like I have lost someone who has an unusual respect for women, and who really sees them fully. He understands them as people and is curious about what they're thinking, what they care about, what they're about. Deep down, I still feel like my ex really saw me and loved how I worked and thought. He was inspired by me, I think. He wasn't predatory by any stretch. If anything, cautious, respectful and empathetic to a fault. (At least before everything went to hell after the job loss).

Granted, it never felt like he saw me fully enough. Just WAY more than most people do.

I guess there is a feeling of scarcity around connection. And yeah, a lot of pain around how men normally treat women in the world. I also feel like the culture we live in is becoming sicker and sicker, and I'm absorbing that.

In terms of feeling empowered, I do look forward to weekly yoga. I enjoy swimming because it's meditative and tiring. Those are the only things that really feel good right now, that I can think of. I get a sense of satisfaction when I finish chores, I guess. With people, though, I haven't been really enjoying any of my interactions deeply. They feel like work, and I feel like a puppet trying to keep up. I haven't really found a tribe here in Texas who I feel comfortable with, which is something I'll have to work on, clearly. I've moved a lot in my young adulthood, and I've only ever really felt at home and built a solid friend network in ONE of those places (naturally, the city where I met my ex). Saying goodbye to my partner, my last connection to that happier period in my life, has been really hard. It's definitely part of what's keeping me drawn to him now. I'm thinking in really nostalgic terms, but I know "you can't go home again."

I just can't believe how far I've strayed from the old me, and the things that used to make me even SOMEWHAT happy or fulfilled. I've always struggled with "the big empty" feeling, but this is probably the worst iteration of it I've ever experienced.