Scarleteen

Okay so ignore that.

I can’t go to therapy this week. But I promise I will when i get insurance. I also decided I’m going to get on medication. I’m sorry.

Sky,

I’m not entirely sure why you’re apologizing, but you certainly don’t have to apologize for not being able to get into therapy this week. I’m sorry to hear you’re dealing with medical stuff that has you out of work as well, I know firsthand how much that sucks. Do you feel like it has an effect on your mood/general outlook? If so, is there anything that helps?

Also, what makes you say that you’d like to get on medication? Have you been on it before, and if so, how did it feel helpful or unhelpful?

I’m curious about this feeling of not identifying with the person who first wrote in. I’m glad that you plan to discuss it in therapy (when you’re able to make it in); that’s the type of thing that would probably be best to be in communication with a mental health professional about, to help develop coping skills and an action plan to keep you safe.

Yes unfortunately it causes a different outlook. I’ve been staying positive at the fact that there’s gonna possibly be surgery or the fact that I’m thankful I still have my arms and legs!

As for medication, I have been on it before! I was on it starting in first grade for my ocd and I have ticks, the pills helped the many I had back then that i couldn’t control because I was just a kid and I didn’t know what or understand what having a slight case of Tourette’s was. As I got older we experimented with them to get me the right stuff and some were bad, one pill was the reason I went to the behavioral health hospital because they didn’t know I was bipolar and it doesn’t react with that well so I went into EXTREME mania and was forced in.

Everyone seems to want me on medication, I wanna make people happy. Also, going on meds makes me feel weak because I should be able to handle it on my own. But that’s not the way is actually is. It’s exhausting to have to battle myself every single day. It’s actually being loving to give my body and brain help by accepting medications. I always thought everyone had suicidal thoughts all day and that everyone was depressed and the older I got I realize that 90% of the people around me have never experienced a suicidal thought.

That is so nice to hear because I don’t want people I love to experience that. But I also hate hearing that because it just means my brain really is chemically imbalanced. I don’t care about myself that much, but people care about me and I deserve it to them for me to be happy. Not just mentally but I deserve to be able to have a clearer head to figure out my gender and my sexuality and what is the issues I have etc. I can’t do it alone anymore and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.

I don’t know why I just wrote all that but it felt nice because I’ve actually never said that out loud or written it before. I deserve love and help no matter what I think or say to myself.

You all helped me realize this. I’m sorry I came back again. I never realized I had an issue until everything started to be lined up like this. My moods change pretty rapidly and I just got used to it I didn’t ever realize it was happening. But this start message is really reaaaaalllyyyy bothering me. I don’t know why I didn’t care about myself enough. I literally could have gotten killed. I don’t even wanna have sex that much honestly. I just feel like I should (with cis men) because society makes me think that.

Hi sky,

It's good to hear that you've done some work trying to unpack the stigma that many of us end up carrying around when it comes to mental illness and things like taking medication. I will say that going on medication, or changing the ones you currently use, should be a decision between you and your mental healthcare provider(s). What everyone else wants is far less important than what you want or are comfortable with pursuing and what your provider recommends as an intervention. Your feelings around medication and your reasons for wanting to pursue it are definitely another thing to cover at your next therapy session.

How did Heather pull up my chat history? Can I do that too? I kinda have no idea what I said, I would like to reread it if possible to see how and why they were “Very concerned for my state of mind”

I’m sorry, again, I know I don’t need to apologize but I am anyways because it makes me feel slightly better. If I just stopped coming on here I wouldn’t have this issue. But it helps me, you all help. I feel like Mo, Al and Heather slightlyy understand what I actually mean when I say things. I very rarely feel understood. But the 3 of you make me feel understood. All I’ve ever wanted was to feel understood.

I won’t ask for anymore help on this thread. I’ll try to not come back. (I’m not trying to be manipulative or fawn or anything)

Hey there, Sky. I'm just flying through the boards today quickly, but I wanted to be sure and answer this for you. I hope you're getting by okay.

When you are actively in chat, there's a button on the screen that lets you save or print a transcript. After the fact, you can't access those chats anymore, but we still can. If you like, I can have one of us email you your transcripts to the email address you registered with here. Let us know, and we'll hop on it, if so.

In general, though, my concern is that in those chats, you seemed a bit dissociative or manic at times, and you also seemed to be trying to get out staff to support you in engaging in what we would consider to be clear sexual self-harm (like seeking sex with men to try and "fix" your orientation, which looks to me like a softer version -- for lack of better words -- or what is generally called "corrective rape").

Um, yeah, if you all don’t mind. I’m trying to like grow i guess is the terming? And I can’t without processing my mistakes. If that makes sense.

I didn’t even realize I was dissociating, which i think would explain why I don’t remember it. Thanks for that observation

I am getting by okay, honestly, I appreciate you for that.

Sure thing. I'll compile them for you and email them now. By all means, I think looking at them is a good idea, particularly if you're finding you don't remember things. <3

Yeah that was rough. I’m really not the brightest. I need to just stop everything I’m doing.

Thank you.

I’m gay. Well, pansexual. I say pansexual due to the fact that I would be with anyone besides cis men. I heard that being pan is bi phobic, I don’t think it is but I wanna be respectful of people’s feelings so I kinda don’t know what to say.

But yeah, I admit it. I’m really into girls. That’s okay. I need to accept it or I’m just going to be miserable forever and drive you all and everyone around me crazy. I kept trying to play off straight but my good friend told me that I’m the only person who doesn’t know I’m gay.

I break my own heart by pretending. I deserve to be happy, I think I do. I don’t know how to like get out there with this, it’s really scary, the world.

But I kinda have a question, we’ve talked a lot about consent previous conversations. One time, I told a guy I wanted to kiss him and so he kissed me and it was the first time I had ever like made out, I don’t even know that it was, he was like sucking my face and touching me and I got really into it, like I was already super wet from everything he was doing previously.

I ended up like literally shoving my tongue down his throat and then freaking out because I didn’t like that feeling. He kept trying to kiss me more he told me it was good and I told him I wasn’t comfortable with anymore. Was that like not okay? Was I bad for not asking him is that was okay? I don’t know why I did it, it literally just happened. But next time, do I stop and like ask if it’s okay to use tongue? Is tongue just a given when you agree to kiss someone?

Sorry but, I’m curious, I’ve been since that happened like 2 years ago. I’ve kinda really been afraid to kiss since then because I didn’t like it with him the kissing that intensely. I don’t know does this make sense? I’m sorry I have another question

I just had an experience with a girl. I found her on tinder and we talked for like 20 minutes. I asked for her Snapchat and we talked about stuff, she’s very experienced. I told her I was going crazy because I wanted to taste her. We started to talk dirty and I was like I’m feeling really aroused.

I started to masturbate with her help and she sent me pictures and I sent her pictures. After, I thanked her a lot and like we talked, normal and I told her I’m non-binary and she got really mad. She said she couldn’t be with me or date me because I’m not a female. She identifies as female and she dates females.

I told her I could try and change for her but I just can’t do that. I explained what it meant to me and she is just not accepting it. I feel numb? It’s literally in my tinder I’m non-binary. I feel like I shared something like intimate to be thrown away for my gender???? I told her so many things that I don’t regret and I don’t regret sending the pictures. I just am really really upset. Is it my fault? Like should I have disclosed it before hand? Why is this hurting me so bad?

I'm really sorry that you had that experience, Sky. That just sucks. It sucks to have someone get angry and (virtually in this case, but still) walk out on you right after intimacy, and it sucks even more when it's about identity. It extra sucks in your case because you are so, so very vulnerable and shaky right now.

I don't think that what this person said to you and how they treated you was your fault: this is their responsibility, including that if they only want to be sexual with -- even just online -- or date only a certain kind of person, the onus is on them to ask questions of people to determine that, not on the other people. You're not a mind reader, you can't know what someone wants or doesn't if they don't tell you. And being nonbinary isn't a contagious disease: it's not something anyone has to tell people first like it is.

That said, I do think -- and I have said something like this previously -- you might not be in the right headspace and heartspace (for lack of a better word) for intimacy like this -- for dating or being sexual with -- with people. Being even in established relationships, where we have built trust, where we really know each other, is hard enough to manage and have work for everyone involved when someone has been having really big identity and mental health crises.

In around just the last six weeks alone, based only on your posts here, you have come in feeling very opposed to even being queer in any way or liking women or girls, often to the point of asking about engaging in sexual self-harm to try and "fix" your orientation. You have suffered sexual harassment online and at work. Your whole gender identity has not only changed, but it's been a pretty radical change: you came in here very strongly attached to a pretty binary feminine identity. You've been suicidal, even. And all of that isn't even the whole of it.

I understand that you feel very lonely, and I',m so sorry that you do. But personally, I would advise that you don't date in any way just yet. I also think any kind of sex with relative strangers -- like even a virtual hookup through Tinder -- is not a good move for you right now. I simply think you are too vulnerable and ungrounded right now in a lot of ways.

I would instead suggest you work on your relationship with yourself: with how you feel about yourself, with growing your self-acceptance and getting more stable and reliable in it, with being with yourself by yourself and feeling good in that, with getting really solid in who you are so that you can be more resilient when and if -- as it so often will around a million things when dating -- shit like this happens. It's also much harder to see shitty people or situations coming when we are in a state of emotional desperation: when you don't feel so desperately hungry or lonely (and pro-tip: other people don't usually solve that way of feeling, that's more stuff we usually have to tend to for ourselves), you'll be more likely to be presented with people and opportunities that are more likely to go well and be healthy for everyone.

If you *are* going to seek out new relationships, I'd suggest, as I have in the past, that you try and instead seek out some platonic friends who also are either themselves queer community for you, or, if not, who at least are earnestly supportive of your orientation and your gender identity -- including the fact that at least one of those things has been in a pretty big state of flux, so it's hard to say where you'll ultimately land with it. Were you ever able to look into those local resources I gave you? Why not, if you're going to reach out to new people right now, not consider one of those community groups or spaces, for instance, and reach out seeking friends, not people to be sexual with?

Lastly, if I remember right, I think you have a therapy appointment tomorrow. I'd suggest you bring some of this to your therapist, if possible, particularly if you are very reactive when you read my suggesting you work on your relationship to yourself instead of seeking out dating/sexual relationships. IMHO, I think if you read that and feel angry or hopeless or like that's would be terrible for you and is the last thing you want? I think it's probably a clue that that's exactly why you need to do what I'm suggesting or, at least, talk to someone like your therapist about why you feel that way about that suggestion.

Heather, how are you so good with words?! Thank you so much for understanding me. I’ve tried talking about this to people and they are just like mad at me for doing it. I just was looking for something and she replied. I made the moves and then she ended up just being totally okay with it. The part that sucks the most is I thought I’ve been masturbating and coming for this past month and I’ve never came before last night. I came and then came more and more and it took me like awhile to get there but I got there.

I feel stupid for letting someone do that. And I don’t know how but she knew all of the things I think I’m into. She knew what to say and how to say it. I told her she controls me and I completely submiss to her and she was like damn right I control you and it was literally everything I’ve ever wanted. And it was better because I gave myself the pleasure, like the act itself. I didn’t even know my body was capable of that.

Something happened though. Before any of that happened she said she recently moved back in with her dad but she would get us a hotel room to hookup in. I accepted the offer because I’ve never felt attraction like that before ever, it was instant sexual chemistry. I told her that I am not okay with penetration at this point of time. She said that’s okay but there’s not much else to do. I asked what she would do if I was with her at that moment and she said that she would do this and this and this and then put in a finger and see if I was okay with it. I was in the moment so I just went along with it but after I was like, I said I didn’t want that.

It makes me feel now that I have to be okay with penetration. It’s just always something that scared me, especially when this girl said she has a strap on and that gives better penetration. I know that wasn’t really an experience but, it was to me. I kinda counted it as like sex because that’s what it felt like. It was about 15 minutes of us just talking dirty and I made her wet and then like I told her I needed to go finish because I couldn’t do both at once lol.

When I was talking to her I was like I feel it I just can’t actually cum and she said that I need penetration. So I did it to myself and it didn’t fell like anything special. I just had a finger in me and I didn’t understand why, but I did it because she said it would probably work. It didn’t, I just came because of my clit and thinking about what we were talking about.

I really really really liked the experience. Like it was a GOOD time until she found out. She said she feels weird because she got a guy off. I told her that I was feeling femme at the time and that me being genderqueer doesn’t really change that much. But then awhile later she told me she would get me off again if I was feeling femme. I said okay and that I would do it for her too if she wanted and she told me she would think about me the next time she masturbated.

I don’t know, all of it seems weird. Why did I like it so much. Why did it have to be a girl that did it to me. I’m definitely gay. I need to be okay with penetration. I need to do penetration. I need these experiences because no one will want me without them. And I know I’m not ready but I still want to feel wanted. I do feel lonely and in that time last night I didn’t. It felt like everything was going right in my world. I don’t even know what to do with my finger when it’s in there?

I feel stupid. I’m sorry that it happened and I need help with it.

Also to add. I respect you and the whole I shouldn’t be doing anything. I don’t think I should either. But I just was really horny. I had gotten myself off like 3 times yesterday and I wanted more and I couldn’t do it myself. That’s why I did it. I know it was stupid. I just really liked it and I want her to do that more and I want to give her more. I want to have full on sex with her but I can’t because I’m confused with my gender.

I just need something I can’t give myself. And I thought she would be the person who would be my fun and exploring thing and it just wasn’t that. I’ll stop seeking. It’s just hard when I feel so alone and have an itch I can’t scratch myself. I don’t know why everything turns against me in the universe.

I just wanted to add this because I’m not fully processing everything I’m sad, but I wanted you to know that I respect and hear what you said. I didn’t mean to brush it off it it seemed so. I appreciate you, like a lot. Your words make me feel whole sometimes and like that’s what I need right now

Also, not to even state the fact I feel like a slut! I don’t use that word for people but it’s a word, and that’s exactly what I am, or was.

Hey sky,

We've already discussed about how you don't need to feel obligated to do anything with other people. It sounds like this experience was useful in helping you see some things that you enjoyed, but that it's also causing you some stress regarding what you want/who you want/your gender. I'm going to second Heather's suggestion that you hold off a bit with dating/sex with other people and take time to explore what feels right to you, on your own. Pushing yourself to have sex when it provokes anxiety isn't a good recipe for your well-being (even when part of you really wants it right now). Part of this time could be spent examining what you want when you are and aren't horny (sometimes they can be different), what your experience of your gender feels like, etc.

Also, like you said, you aren't fully processing things right now - that makes sense, because there's a lot going on. Slowing things down would give you time to process, to figure out what you really want without jumping into experiences that partially make you uncomfortable, etc. Sex should never make you uncomfortable, and if it does it would be best to stop/pause and check in with yourself about what you need.

I also want to encourage you to read through your chat history, and revisit your old thread. There are over 100 posts there from Scarleteen staff offering advice, articles, and other resources that are still very applicable to you. Taking another look now that you're in a different place could be really useful.

I know we keep circling back to this, but when will you see your therapist next? We simply aren't equipped to handle OCD and bipolar, and it seems like those aspects of you are really intertwined in your experience of your sexuality (as they would be with anyone! They're part of the complete you). You mentioned your aunt would help you pay for therapy; is that still an option?

I can’t even tell you how much I hurt over her. Over me being gay. No one understands. I’m trying so hard to be strong and not come here and not ask for support. I’m so sorry

Hey there, sky. I've felt pretty strongly the last bunch of posts you made didn't really work with the kinds of limits we've set, so I'm not approving them just now. I did read them, however.

I still strongly feel that with everything you have posted here in the last month, you really need the kind of help and support that a quality mental healthcare provider can give you in the kind of setting (read: fully private, one-on-one) that care also involves. I don't think we are a good space for a lot of your needs for a lot of reasons. I was disappointed to read that you weren't keeping the appointment you had for the 19th, and I very much hope you will reconsider.

That said, it's not true that no one understands that it can be painful to have your heart broken -- yep, even when a dating relationship only lasted a couple days or was just a couple sexual interactions -- nor that no one understand that it can be painful to be gay or otherwise queer in this world. Lucky for all of us (except for the part where we've had to live it, of course), because otherwise we would feel and be so much more isolated, lots of us have experienced this.

This is part of why I keep trying very hard to encourage you to put your energy into finding some platonic queer community, and why I would still strongly suggest you go back to those links I gave you to the LGBTQ community resources -- which are many! -- where you live. Honestly, if I know one thing that saves all of us vulnerable, heartbroken queers it's our friends who know exactly how that feels: queer community is literally lifesaving. You're going to keep feeling all alone if you keep making choices that are pretty much guaranteed to keep you there and keep avoiding trying the things that can take you out of isolation in supportive, stable, and healthy ways.

It's something we can obviously give you in part, here, but it's not the same as friends, in-person and online alike. So, on top of finding and committing to working with someone who can really help you -- and those same resources can help you find queer and GNC-friendly mental healthcare, too! -- I really think that putting your energy into things more likely to benefit you than to create more conflict and crisis, and that also are safer and healthier places for you being as vulnerable as you presently are, is the way to go. You're asking for help here, and these are the things I have strongly felt, right from the start, and feel still, are the things most likely to help you best.

Sorry that disappointed you, it disappointed a lot of others too, I’m good at that. Also, what I meant was that no one in my personal life understands the situation, out of the say about 10 people I connect with on a regular basis, 2 are queer. That’s what I meant by that, my bad for the mis wording!

I don’t want to get into a part of the community because I’m not the community. I’m not queer. I’ve been saying to myself for 15 years that I’m not actually attracted to the same sex. It’ll seep in soon.

I understood what you meant (we've talked about your lack of queer friends, which is one reason why we keep talking about finding some).

But just FYI, before anything else, I feel gaslit when someone words something like you have up there. You're telling us you're gay and asking for help, but then in the next post you are literally typing that you're not. I get that -- I think I get it, anyway -- you're saying you are but you are in denial, but I'd prefer you said it that way if you're going to talk about it (eg: "I don't feel like I'm entitled to queer community because I'm still in denial about being queer."). Telling us one thing then saying the opposite minutes later when we try and help you is just a pretty serious head trip, especially for any of us who have been abused or manipulated. Know what I mean?

So, if I have this right, you're in denial you're queer, so you can't seek out queer community. But it's interesting to me that that isn't stopping you from trying to seek out a queer relationship or queer sex, things that are a lot less right for you and where you're at right now. If your mind will only let you accept your queerness to do things that are destructive, but NOT the things that can be CONstructive, then that's absolutely something to both really take stock of yourself, and then get some qualified help with.

But this sounds like we're at an impasse, again: you don't want to do the things we are all saying we feel are the things that will help, but you keep asking us for help. So, we keep suggesting those things, and around and around we go. Something has to give here, whether that's you taking a positive risk and trying something we suggest, or that's you, recognizing that you don't want to do what we offer, so not continuing to ask. Otherwise, all we are ever going to do is go around in circles that mostly just seem like they are one more thing that probably keeps you from doing what would actually be helpful, healthy and constructive.

Well everything got shot down, I’m depressed again. And this isn’t the depression talking when I say that I don’t think I’ll ever be okay. I just don’t think it’ll ever happen. I really need therapy and medication again. The medication I was on previously didn’t work out the best for me because I think I have bipolar and I was treated mostly for depression and ptsd.

It’s funny because I was hospitalized once for a week and they took me off everything I was on and treated me pretty aggressively for bipolar and then I went and saw a new psychiatrist awhile after because I was told too by my therapist at the time to just check and get refills and then she fucking changed them all and said it was the wrong diagnosis because I have severe depression and not bipolar????

Whatever. I know me and my body and I want medication that will help but also can’t be used to overdose because I get that thought a lot. So yeah, it’s a difficult route. But therapy is where I need to start. I lost mine so I am opening myself up to the help you’ve offered to help me find one whose supportive of my sexuality. I can’t do it alone, you all can’t help, no one can help me except a professional. It’s time for me to stop being stupid and accept the help in looking since I don’t want to take the plunge by myself.

I’m sorry for everything

Hey there, Sky.

We're about to close up shop in our direct services from late tonight until the 3rd of next month. I've seen the posts you've made, but I've left most of them in moderation for now for a few reasons, including that we can't get into anything deep right now because the boards are going to be read-only for everyone in just a few hours.

But I do hope that during that time, you'll take good care of yourself, and that during that time, you'll at least consider taking some positive risks by doing things like looking more into your local LGBTQ+ resources, and also looking into finding a queer and GNC-friendly therapist (or a new therapist, period, since it's very clear this last one you had been seeing is just not one that's been working out for you in a host of ways), both of which I strongly feel could make a world of difference for you.

Those queer resources in your area would be the best places to get a referral for that from, but another option is via a few different online directories. This article -- https://www.them.us/story/how-to-find-a-queer-therapist -- at them. does a great job walking you through that way and others to find an affirming therapist.

Take care, and we'll see you on the other side of that break.