Scarleteen

Hi all. This is a great website; I've lurked here from time-to-time for years now and it's been helpful in many ways.

So, some background: I'm a 21 year old heterosexual cis-male. I'm also a virgin in all senses of the word (I have never even kissed somebody before). I was raised in a reasonably sex positive environment, all things considered.

Anyway, like most heterosexual cis men, I find the idea of PiV to be very hot. It's the part of sex I want to experience more than any other. It just seems to be a very intimate, hot, and pleasurable act in unique ways (not saying it is "objectively" better, just in my head). I don't necessarily think PiV is The Sex and all other forms of sex are not, but I will admit that for me it does feel like, in my fantasies anyway, it's "more" than other forms of sex.

But I always have this voice in the back of my head shaming me about these feelings. Ever since I found out that most women can't have an orgasm from PiV, and for some it isn't even that physically pleasurable or a high priority, I've been feeling ashamed for my desires. Recently, I've been exposed to other arguments that have reawakened this shaming voice that talk about the increase risk for women in getting STI's in PiV, and also the fact that it has by far the highest pregnancy risk even with birth control (for obvious reasons), and a couple people I've read have suggested that this makes PiV unethical to engage in (I don't buy it, but the shaming voice is relentless). I've also discovered that some women find it painful, and feel pressured into doing it. I would never violate a woman's consent, nor pressure a woman into engaging in it (though I doubt, because of my desires, a longer term thing could develop if my partner didn't want PiV).

I don't know how to cope with this. I know PiV is riskier in various ways and men tend to get more pleasure out of it than women, but rationally I know that if my partner wants it, consents to it, and we use a condom, that I'm not doing anything shameful or unethical. Anyway, what can I do about these feelings?

Welcome to the boards! Sorry, however, you're here because of feeling this way.

I think we can perhaps get a start at unpacking and simplifying this by talking about PIV like we would any other sexual activity with a partner. When any given sexual activity is something everyone involved wants to do with each other and enjoys, in whatever way they enjoy it, it really is all good. And by all means, just like there are plenty of cis men who do not enjoy intercourse, or find it to be their fave thing ever, there are plenty of people with vaginas who do enjoy it (especially when something besides JUST intercourse is going on).

Of course, as on now, you yourself don't even know if it's something you like or will like with every partner, and however that turns out, it's okay. Wanting what you want, and enjoying what you enjoy is nothing to be ashamed of. Just because some people do NOT like it, lack the ability to do it, experience pain with it and it poses certain risks other things don't do not make this kind of sex any less okay than any other. Similarly, some ways of being active in the world pose more risks than others, don't work for some people are aren't what some people want, but that doesn't mean those ways are any less okay than others: if someone wants to go bungee jumping instead of taking a walk, it's all good. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Make sense?

Thanks. That's a helpful way of looking at it for me!

EDIT: Actually, though, I do have a further question. You perspective has helped me assuage my worries about the risk side, but the pleasure side (for women) is still nagging at me. If most women can't orgasm from PiV without another form of stimulation, why wouldn't they just want the other stimulation without PiV? Why would most women want to engage in PiV at all with me (especially given the added risks)?

Edit2: Maybe I'm just blowing this up and making it way more complicated and difficult seeming in my own head due to my inexperience?

I think one thing that might help you is to reframe your thinking around this so that you are no longer viewing orgasms as the ultimate goal of every sexual act.

No sexual activity is ever guaranteed to lead to orgasm (for anyone, not just women), and an orgasm is not necessary for sex to be enjoyable and pleasurable. It is possible to really enjoy a sexual activity that does not lead one to orgasms, or does not reliably do so, simply because orgasm is not all that we can potentially get out of sex. Maybe that activity feels really awesome, or provides you with an opportunity to be really intimate with your partner, or maybe your partner likes it a lot and you enjoy sharing in their good time with them, etc.

An orgasm is not the seal of approval that proves that sex was really awesome. It is possible to have seriously awesome sex without orgasms, and to have mediocre sex that leads to orgasm.

And even if the woman in question does want to orgasm, well

If most women can't orgasm from PiV without another form of stimulation, why wouldn't they just want the other stimulation without PiV?

If most people wouldn't eat chocolate sauce without ice cream, then why would people put chocolate sauce on ice cream?
It's totally possible to not like a thing by itself/in one situation, but really enjoy it with something else/in another situation.