Scarleteen

I genuinely just need to talk. Like I have to let all of this out. This is not one of those manic episodes I just have to get this out. I have no access to therapy as of now so please don’t suggest that. Anyways, I’m so freaking confused. Like I’m seriously so confused. I like girls, I think they are wonderful visually and I think they are amazing, I want to kiss girls and hold hands with girls and that is all. Now, boys, I don’t want to do anything with them, the thought of me having to kiss one again or even touch one just makes me not feel good but sometimes they are good looking.

I don’t want to have sex with anyone really. Yes I get horny and wanna have sex sometimes but thinking of the actual act of it isn’t something that I want at this time. I think of kissing boys and I feel sick, I think of kissing girls and it makes me so happy to think about. I’m having trouble with accepting I might be gay. My sister the other day called me the f slur idk if it’s a slur but you know the word I’m talking about I won’t type it. I’m thinking about how my aunt told my mom that my other sibling was gonna burn in hell for being gay. How someone in my family tried to get my sibling to go to conversion therapy. I think about how none of my family supports the marriage, I think about how they support trump and it just feels like hate against me. They have told me they won’t even come to my wedding if I get married to a woman.

I feel like I can’t be gay. I don’t want to be gay. So I just keep ignoring it. I’m back on dating sites and I’m straight and it’s awful, like I’m trying to talk to these men and i don’t like it so I’m like okay I’ll just pretend it’s a girl and if we ever meet to do whatever and we kiss or something I’ll pretend it’s a girl. But I tried that with my ex and it didn’t work I still cried every time we hung out together because I just didn’t like him. I think about kissing them and I’m like yeah I’ll pretend it’s a girl but then I’m like their lips won’t be as soft and they won’t smell like cute perfume.

I’m seriously having such a hard time with this. I tried to talk to one of my friends at work about this guy on the app last night because he said something stupid and it made me laugh and she walked away and said she’s not listening to it because I’m gay and she’s not going to listen to my situations with men. I understand I told her I was gay because I was but now I am straight and it’s so hurtful that she keeps saying it. I’m not gay. I want to find someone but I don’t know how when I like girls but straight girls don’t like girls in that form.

I’ve been crying multiple times a day over this all, like it’s killing me. I think about a penis and I am repulsed and I think about a vagina and I’m not repulsed but I’m scared. I know I will enjoy that experience but I don’t know how to even let myself get there and I don’t want to have that experience because then I’m acting on these feelings and I shouldn’t.

I’ve been doing so much research and they don’t offer conversion therapy here and i understand why and I know it’s bad but I need it and I can’t get it. I don’t know what to do anymore. It’s eating me alive. Since I was like 7 I’ve wanted to hold hands with girls and then I got older and I didn’t know that I wasn’t supposed to feel this I didn’t know I was different. Gosh I’m starting to cry writing this so I’m gonna stop. I’m sorry this was so long and I’m sorry if this comes off as mean, I don’t intend for it too

Hey there, Sky. I'm sorry that you're still struggling with this so much. I'm also sorry that you're within a family that is so unsupportive.

I want to say first that conversion therapy not only doesn't work at changing anyone's orientation, the one thing it IS effective at is creating trauma. I think we can both agree that's the last thing you need more of. Conversation therapy isn't available in some places because it has been banned due to a long history of doing grave harm.

You know, I wonder if right now, while we're pretty much in the midst of the worst time for anyone to be dating, you might be able to view this time while we're still in a pandemic as a time where you can put all of this down -- any pursuit of sex or dating with anyone, whatever their gender -- and instead focus on other parts of who you are and your life? Truly, my single friends of all orientations trying to date right now who have decades of experience with it and feel good about their orientation are all having the hardest time. I can't imagine trying to do it now with the ways you've been feeling.

I do also want to remind you that you do not have to have sex with ANYONE. You say you don't want to have sex with anyone, and that the idea of it makes you feel bad. So, why not just let yourself have what you want? Delete the dating sites, stop worrying about this, and just set this all aside, especially right now, while it's more difficult for everyone and also very unsafe?

Hey Heather,

Thank you. I honestly don’t think I can delete the apps. I need the validation from people which is a silly thing to say because no men ever tell me I’m pretty or anything. This past month a guy on the app got really angry with me because we only talked for not even an hour and I wouldn’t send him porn to watch and then I didn’t wanna send pictures. He sent me a video of him jacking off which I didn’t want or ask for but I pretended I enjoyed it. He just got so mad and told me I was lame because he asked for a picture of every body part, I said no each time and asked him to stop.

He didn’t stop and I eventually sent a picture of my butt but that was all I did and he was like nice ass but I wanna see your puss*, I hate that word so much and so I just blocked him after that. I don’t want to be the lame girl but I don’t want to be a girl like that. (Not that it’s bad I just don’t want to do that it makes me feel like crap about it like I know I would.)

I just constantly need someone to want me and I don’t know why. I talk to them because I want them to like me and I do almost everything to get them to like me.

I understand what you are saying but I don’t care who I am, I just want to be loved. That’s all I want. I know who I am and that’s person isn’t okay so that’s why I am doing all of this. I had such a bad panic attack last night because I read erotica with a girl in it and I really enjoyed it a lot but that was the last time I’m indulging in girl porn/erotica because I’m not gay.

Does any of this make sense? I’m trying to actually communicate with you and just not be all emotional like I was sometimes in the past when I didn’t know how to speak my feelings, I’m trying really hard to get better at it.

I think you're doing a great job.

I hear you saying you need to keep the apps to get validation, but I also hear you saying they have not actually done that for you. Instead it sounds like they're only adding new trauma for you and compounding existing sexual aversion (which tends to feel pretty awful, as you know). Honestly, it sounds to me like it's because an avenue of abuse and self-harm, particularly since you are leaving it open for men who you know you don't want to be sexual with.

I get that you want to feel loved. Of course you do. We all do. But it sounds like -- as we've talked about in the past -- you're thinking sex is the only avenue to get there. Not only is it not the only one, it's actually a particularly poor one, especially for someone like you, who doesn't WANT to be sexual. People wanting you sexually or liking you sexually, especially the ways you're going at it, seem very unlikely to lead to love or anything else that's honestly affirming for you.

What do you think about all that?

I do want to be sexual with them but over time, not so fast. I don’t think sex is love but I do know most men love sex so if they talk about it or something so do I. I do think that sex can amplify love which I know is true.

I don’t even understand sex, it’s so weird to me. Although thinking of no sex but kissing girls and just having their body next to mine makes me feel so warm and tingly. But I can’t kiss girls.

I'm not so sure I agree with that last sentence in your first paragraph. It's a matter of opinion, obviously, but I'm going to share mine in case it's useful to you.

I think sex can be one way to express love. It can also be a way to engage in and grow intimacy. But either of those things can only be the case when people are coming to them with those intentions and feelings. In other words, if we don't love someone or want to love them, sex won't make it happen. If we go about sex in a way where we stay as closed off emotionally as we ca, it won't create more intimacy.

Too, this idea that "men love sex," is also pretty problematic. Some men do, just like some women do: that's really not about gender, save that many men have been socialized in such a way to learn they are *supposed to* love sex, so they learn to say they do, often even before they know how they feel about it. But I think that if you have the idea that talking about sex with men over dating apps in the way you have will lead to love you have to know that's not going to happen. Look at that first example up there in the post you made: I think that's pretty indicative of how this tends to go. That's abuse and disrespect: that won't lead to love. At best, it'd lead to in-person abuse.

I feel like we always get into a tangle in these kinds of conversations because you will say very clearly you do not want sex or to be sexual, and if we affirm that for you and support you in it, then you will often react by saying, not exactly the opposite, but by refusing to honor that for yourself, and to kind of argue with us about why you shouldn't. Do you know what I mean?

I also understand, btw, that right now, the internalized homophobia you've been struggling so hard with is a barrier for you to think about being physically intimate in ways you want to be with the people you might actually want to be. I think it might be helpful to frame it like that: that you simply are still struggling very much with deeply internalized homophobia that won't let you really consider or feel able to do what you actually want.

Why did that make me cry. I feel like I’m going to throw up. Even if I was abused I don’t really care because at least I’m still straight. I didn’t say men love sex I said MOST men love sex. I didn’t mean for it to be a problematic take. I’m not trying to argue I don’t know what I’m trying to do. I don’t know why I’m even here talking about it. I’m sad.

Is it internalized homophobia? I’m not homophobic to other people, I mean I kinda hate seeing lesbians but that’s not because they are lesbians and I hate them or something. If I see girls holding hands together at work I have to leave because it just hurts. How can they do it, like why them. Why do they get that and I don’t. I thought this was going to be an easier conversation to have and it’s simply not easy at all

I'm sorry that this is making you upset. If you know anything I can do to make this conversation less upsetting for you, please let me know and I'll do my best.

But since we know from you, over many times since you first started posting here, that you do not want to be sexual with men, how about we set male sexuality as a topic aside for right now? It seems to upset you, and it also just doesn't seem relevant to you separate from a longstanding pattern of self-harm with it.

In terms of homophobia, yes, I think that it is. Someone who didn't think they were gay, but also didn't have internalized homophobia, wouldn't be upset by the idea they might be gay, separate, perhaps obviously, from worries about discrimination it makes sense for everyone to have in a world that remains, by and large, deeply homophobic, heterocentric and heterosexist. Someone who thought they might be gay and who wasn't homophobic also wouldn't be fighting not to be.

Internalized homophobia or biphobia can often play out like this, where someone is okay with other people being something besides straight, but not themselves. Same goes for feeling upset about seeing other queer people being queer. Given your feelings, I'm not surprised it upsets you: you've been struggling with this for a long time, and I'm sure seeing people who not only feel okay about being gay or queer but also have the kind of relationship you want is very upsetting. It can be really hard to see people in the kind of space we want to be in when we've been trying so hard to get there without feeling like we can progress. <3

Okay so say I am lesbian. I’m not saying I am. But hypothetically, I am. What do I do about it? I think it’s pretty clear that I’m straight, I keep saying it over and over. No one believes me

I'm afraid I just don't know how to engage with this particular response in a productive way. Since you've been posting here, you've identified a handful of different ways. You've also been very clear with us many times that you do NOT have feelings for men, and are, instead, repulsed by them.

No one here has ever not believed you, but instead, has supported you throughout. But it's tricky to do that with so much changing around and also when you seem to say things that are in direct contradiction to one another. Understand why I feel stucK?

I do understand I feel stuck too. I just don’t want to say it, like you and I both know that I am but I don’t want to say it because if I don’t it’s not real. If I don’t act on it, it’s not real. I’ve been thinking about getting a boyfriend now since we can’t meet but then cheat on him with a girl that no one knows about. Like her and I can have cyber things and a relationship but as far as everyone can see I have a boyfriend.

I know cheating is bad so I was thinking about maybe just telling them I’m poly that way they both know there’s someone else but I won’t tell them who.

Heather there’s nothing I want more then to hold hands with a girl that I have feelings for and then to come home after along day and know I can talk to her and know that one day we can kiss and one day do more makes me literally have butterflies. But then I’m like my tongue in a vagina is like an odd situation but I definitely want one in mine but only a girls. I look at men all day and feel nothing and I have a friend and whenever she glances in my direction I just, smile because she’s so beautiful. Girls are so beautiful and I’m not.

All the girls I talk to tell me I’m cute and all that stuff and we talk and we get closer and closer and then one day I just ghost them because yes no one knows I’m doing that but like I know I’m doing that. The fact that I can think of just kissing a girl and that brings me to a point where I get horny makes me feel so weird.

I don’t know if I am making any sense

Oh, sky. I am so, so sorry this is so hard on you and has you tied up in such knots. It is totally okay not to use terms for yourself you're not comfortable with and to take whatever time you need getting there. You don't have to say something that makes you feel scared or upset. There's no ticking clock here, no deadlines.

I'd like to try something on, because I feel like there's a lot of self-blame that's happening here that not only doesn't help you, but that I also think isn't appropriate. If you're not up for it, no problem.

But if you are, let's try this: let's say you're in a family and a community that is supportive of you WHATEVER your orientation. Like, where no one has any ideal one way or another, they just want you to be able to love and be loved, and they just want the people in your life to be good people who care about and value you. Let's play pretend right now that the world you live in -- your home, your extended family, your workplaces, our hideous current government -- all think it's just as fine to be queer and trans as it is to be straight and cis.

In that Utopia, what do you think you might want? Do you think you'd feel the same way you've been feeling? Would this all feel as scary?

I’m not sure I fully understand what you mean. I will answer as how I’m taking what you said, if it’s wrong tell me and I’ll try again (:

So, if things were different I would be a lesbian and I would have never kicked the girl I think I was maybe falling in love with with out of my life. I wanted to be with her so badly. I would 100% be all in for girls and I would even want to be with many girls at once (that’s just a fantasy but I really want to have an encounter with 2 girls and me). Oh my God, to be able to be in public and hold a girls hand or to even kiss her in public and not be scared that would be incredible.

And thank you, I appreciate you so much. I definitely am not okay so I won’t say I am but thank you for knowing me enough to know I’m not trying to hurt anyone or be mean. It’s so hard and I’m tied up in so many knots I can’t even think clearly

I know. It's okay.

You've got it.

Can you take a minute now, and see that you feel the way you do not because of anything being wrong with YOU, but because you are afraid due to intolerance of the people around you? That their intolerance is the problem, not you, not you or anyone else being gay or otherwise queer?

Yeah :/

That's really good. Do you think that maybe you can just sit with that for a bit and try and let it sink in? That you do not have to feel this way, and likely would not if you were being supported? That it makes sense you are because you're not?

Even better, maybe see if it's possible to try and at least consider that if you can change your environment so that you ARE mostly supported by the people and communities around you, the kind of life and love you hope for are very likely out there for you?

IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT, SKY.

(Just trying to float the internet version of an airplane banner to make it clear.)

I honestly think you just like broke through to me. This is the easiest I’ve been able to breathe in weeks. It still feels weird though. Like I’m actually saying to myself I’m a lesbian and I’m not crying and I’m not hyperventilating? To be honest I’ve been thinking that being sad would be better then being gay for the past month straight, I actually relapsed on self harm 2 weeks ago after 4 months clean because of this. I am okay now like I’m not actively hurting myself and I’m not thinking of plans or anything.

I actually feel kind of good right now. I’m thinking about my future and I’m smiling because I can actually have a girl one day can’t I

You can. Really.

I'm so glad you're feeling this way right now. What do you think you can do to extend this for the rest of the day? In other words, I'd love for you to be able to hold on to this for as long as you can, but I recognize your environment is such that it's probably going to be something that comes and goes. Is there any way you can stay in or get in a space where you can let yourself hold unto these feelings for a bit, and just let yourself feel them for a while?

Are you sure it’s okay? Like I’m not gross or weird? I’m crying again I don’t know what the hell is wrong with me lately

A little reminder -- not because I'm offended, so please don't worry about that -- that I've been queer my whole life. So, while I am, in fact, often both gross and weird (I mean, those things are just objectively true about me), the fact that I'm someone who can be and has been in love with, sexual with and involved intimately with women and with other people who are not men isn't one of the things that makes me gross and weird.

I also can't speak to how gross or weird you are, but I can say with certainty that being whatever orientation you are, including if it's lesbian, is not one of the things that makes you gross or weird either.

I wonder if one thing that might help is some more media of various kinds with lesbian visibility in it, and maybe not erotica, since that seems to cue more discomfort for you than I expect non-sexual media might. Do you feel like you have been taking in any of that: movies, music, books? If not, I'd be happy to give you some places to start.

I just told the guy I’m talking to that I am gay and he said how do I know I’ve never had sex. He’s right.

Gay media sure why not although I’ve gone through burning hoops to avoid lesbians on my tv

He's wrong. Fuck that guy, whoever he is (and by this, I mean dismiss him). He sounds like an ignorant jerk.

No one says that to straight people, to whom it would also be wrong to say. Orientation is about who we have feelings for, regardless of if we pursue those feelings or not. My goodness, for so much of history, so many queer people were never able to be sexual with who they wanted to because they would have been risking their lives. That doesn't mean they didn't know.

Per media, what's your poison? I know you like music, so I can suggest some queer/lesbian musicians to listen to, but movies, books?