Bottom Dysphoria Weirdness

[kokoPeg]

Hi, hello. I recently made a post on this earlier, but I think it was poorly written by me and I wanted to give it another try and explain myself.

Some background on myself, I’m a 18 year old trans-girl with (I wouldn’t say severe, but quite a bit of) Bottom Dysphoria. And I have only tired to masturbate once or twice both having bad experiences with it (not doing it right and being forced to do it once to get some of it frozen)

So with that out of the way, I would like to explain my situation and see if anyone would have any advise on what I should do. So, rather recently I am trying to explore my body with trying a different method with muffing and I don’t think I am doing it right because I experience very little pleasure out of it. So, last night, I tried to do it the traditional way and it was going well, until I experienced this weird flash of disgust for myself and almost this shame for betraying what I have originally said about having bottom dysphoria.

Does anyone have advice on what I should do?

[Elise]

Hi kokoPeg, welcome to Scarleteen. I had a look at both of your posts, and have approved this one as you mentioned that you prefer the way that you have expressed yourself here, so that there is one thread for this conversation.

I'm sorry to hear that you have been feeling some distress whilst trying to find pleasure by masturbating. Also it sounds like perhaps you were forced to donate some sperm at a point in your life? Did you want to donate it and it was a necessity of that, or did someone make you? The latter is coercive and really not okay. I'm really sorry if you had to go though that. If you would like to talk about it here we are here to listen.

With your question about methods of masturbation, it is a very common experience for many people to need take time and experiment with what can feel good for them. So whilst it can be frustrating at the time for it to not work right away, know that you are very much not alone here. Also, there is no wrong way to masturbate. Although easier said then done, you don't need to feel like you are "betraying" your experiences of dysphoria by engaging with your body in any kind of way. That said, it is also totally okay to not want to engage with masturbation in a particular way to help avoid triggering any dysphoria.

You may find this article from the daily dot's Trans/Sex column a useful read, as it touches on the points you have raised: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/trans-sex-masturbation/

Also, it may help to have some more information about how your brain is a really important part of our sexual response cycle: when we're stressed, or putting pressure on ourselves to reach orgasm, or feeling like we 'should' masturbate but not really want to, these are all things that are counteractive to experiencing pleasure for masturbation as our brain instead focuses on the stress we are feeling. Therefore it might be useful to instead explore pleasure more from a curiosity mindset, this could be a really gentle way to begin to explore pleasure for yourself (eg. what kind of sensations and activities do you enjoy generally, how do certain kinds of touch make you feel rather than trying to make them trigger a sexual response). Could that sound good for you? It's also totally fine to focus on other kinds of activities or take a break from trying masturbation for as long as you need, too.

Here are a couple of articles that go into more depth about this that you might find useful. If you feel comfortable sharing any thoughts or curiosities that arise for you reading them, we'd be really happy to discuss them with you here.

• Why Does Masturbation Feel Weird?
• I Feel Good: Pleasure and Fulfillment

[kokoPeg]

Also it sounds like perhaps you were forced to donate some sperm at a point in your life? Did you want to donate it and it was a necessity of that, or did someone make you?

Yea, I was sort of forced to. It was a situation where if I finished and did it, I would get access to hormones. Which at the time and I probably still don’t have the words to say ‘no.’ But that was the past.

The other problem that this brings is I can sometimes feel rather sad when talking about sex in general because of that experience, but maybe I am making a big deal out of something that isn’t.

[Sofi]

I just want to say I'm so sorry you went through that and like Elise said, that is not okay. I'm glad it was in the past and you're not in that situation right now, but that doesn't make it NOT a big deal. It is perfectly valid for you to still have unresolved feelings about that. Please don't think you're making a big deal out of something small because anything that feels important to you IS important, and that experience definitely was not right, so it's understandable you have conflicting feelings around sex now. Have you considered talking to a mental health professional about it so you can work through these feelings? We would be glad to help you find someone who is trans-friendly.

[kokoPeg]

Have you considered talking to a mental health professional about it so you can work through these feelings? We would be glad to help you find someone who is trans-friendly.

Well, I actually talked with my past therapist (who has now retired) about it and they had a quite similar reaction, but we really didn’t talk about it after that. I have a new therapist now, so should I ask them their thoughts on the matter too? Just nervous I’ll bring it up again and it will be forgotten two or three sessions after.

[Sofi]

Yep, I do recommend you bring it up, this is something that is normal but does need to be unpacked and worked through with a professional. I'm glad you are seeing someone new; talking about these topics in therapy is important as long as you feel safe in that environment.

[kokoPeg]

Hi, I’m back again. Sorry to bring another thing to the table. I haven’t seen my therapist (next session is next Tuesday) yet.

However, I think I just want to say something. I suck at this (masturbating). I really am the worse at doing this. I try so hard to feel something (and I am not really sure what to feel) and it usually just ends with me either falling asleep or crying. So I don’t really know what to do at this point. Maybe stop completely? Sorry if I am being too dramatic, I just don’t know what to do. I think I am just a little frustrated and dysphoric.

[Urna]

Hello kokoPeg, please don't apologize for bringing something else in, that's what we're here for!

I'm really sorry that you're experiencing so much distress around masturbation. It sucks, truly. And I think you're right--stopping for the time being sounds like the best thing to do. You're not being too dramatic, either, these frustrations are more common than we're made to believe, and your dysphoria worsens the frustration, I'm sure. Have you considered seeking physical pleasure/activity that isn't sexual? Say, sport, or massages, or exercise?

[kokoPeg]

Have you considered seeking physical pleasure/activity that isn't sexual? Say, sport, or massages, or exercise?

I haven’t because I am really busy with school and such. I do occasionally work out when I have the time. I am a little curious how this will help? (Sorry if that sounded mean or anything, wasn’t my intention.

[Emily N]

Hi kokoPeg,

I’m sorry that masturbation is so difficult right now. Because it’s something that is supposed to be so pleasurable, it’s extra confusing when it causes pain and frustration. Like Urna said, it’s okay to take a step back from masturbation if it doesn’t feel good to you right now.

Luckily, masturbation isn’t the only way we can get in touch with physical pleasure. If you decide to take time away from masturbating, you can still try seeking pleasure in other ways. This pleasure can also be sexual if you want - even if it doesn’t lead to orgasm, eating chocolate or giving/receiving a massage can feel sexual if you want. For me, stretching with music gives me space to have an emotional and physical “reset”. Basically, it can be anything that allows you to focus wholly on yourself! Does this idea sound interesting to you? It’s also okay if it doesn’t

[kokoPeg]

Alright, I think I could do similar to that. Thanks for the advice!

[kokoPeg]

Okay. I’m back. Also sorry if I should just make a whole new post out of this. I’m not sure where to post it.

Anyway, after taking a break and talking to my therapist, I just wanted to come back and say that I have masturbated twice in the past two days. And to be honest, I have had conflicting thoughts and feelings about it. Like the first time I did two days ago, it felt really great and I felt happy afterwards. However, the time I did it yesterday, it was almost the opposite. After I did it, I felt complete guilt and shame of feeling like a creep. So with that being said, what should I do? I am really confused…

[Urna]

Hey, good to have you back kokopeg! You don't have to make a whole new post, this is fine.

On the one hand, I'm glad that you've gotten back to masturbation, and that it was fun the first time. On the other, it's really unfortunate that it left you feeling so upset the second time. Before we go any further, though, would you mind elaborating a little on why it had you "feeling like a creep"?

Also--did you get a chance to try out the other routes to physical pleasure that Emily listed in her last reply to you, during your break? How was it, if you did?

[kokoPeg]

Yeah, sorry, for being unspecific.

I guess I felt and still feel like a creep because of multiple factors: I read this pretty hateful thread on trans-women that called us “vile, weak, disgusting, whiny, fake victim masturbators who should be ashamed of themselves,” and it has resonated with me after reading it; I had multiple people in other rooms at the house I did it in, both asleep, but still; and like I touched on earlier I am nervous that somehow it will make me “less trans” and “less woman.”

To touch on what Emily said earlier. I think I have? I have done some of the things she listed like eating dessert or exercising, but I guess I don’t really get any pleasure out of it. But, may be I am in the wrong mindset.

[kokoPeg]

Also just wanted to be clear and set some things straight. I also posted something (on a totally different topic board) about how my Mom caught maybe caught me masturbating. So, yea, about that… I was feeling really good about myself and overall I had a day filled with euphoria, so I decided to do that. Just wanted to say that so it wouldn’t be confusing, sorry if it still is.

[Sam W]

Hi kokopeg,

Thanks for those details, that's all really helpful! I'm so sorry you ran across such a hateful thread; if it helps to hear, every word of that description of trans women was utter trash and can go straight in the garbage. I know there are folks out there who like to claim trans women's sexuality is inherently gross or predatory, but that's not even remotely true. Not when trans women are sexual with others, and certainly not when trans women are being sexual with themselves.

On a more practical level, if you haven't seen this already, we have a piece on managing privacy and anxiety when trying to masturbate in a shared house: https://www.scarleteen.com/article/sexu ... rbating_at. Are there tips in there that look applicable to you?

With those other routes to physical pleasure, mindset can certainly play a big role; if you're already feeling low, it can be harder to connect with those positive sensations. Too, you can sometimes get stuck in the loop of "I'm doing this thing to feel good but it doesn't feel good so now I feel even worse and also frustrated with myself." Do you have much room in your life for moments where you can go, "hey, (insert fun/pleasurable thing here) sounds really good right now, I'm going to do that?" Sometimes it's easier to hone in on what will actually be pleasurable in the moment when you do that.

[kokoPeg]

"I'm doing this thing to feel good but it doesn't feel good so now I feel even worse and also frustrated with myself." Do you have much room in your life for moments where you can go, "hey, (insert fun/pleasurable thing here) sounds really good right now, I'm going to do that?"

I totally agree with your first statement, when I’m already feeling down, it can be really hard to pick myself back up. And I end up associating the feelings I had with the day with that activity.

I would like to think I have moments in life for me to say the next thing. However, when I say or think things like that, I always think I’m not doing what I’m supposed to do, like I am wasting time, if that makes sense. I also find myself asking in contradiction to that, saying “Do I really deserve to do that though?” And then my mind spirals into thoughts when I have been lazy or have done things I really regret, and usually out of some self justified punishment, I don’t because I know I don’t deserve it because of these thoughts.

And lastly, whenever I am doing things for myself such as self-care or things that give me pleasure. I always think it will get out of hand, and it will be the only thing I do. Like I’ll become addicted to it or something.

woulf, sorry if this seems like just self-pity, just wondering if I can do anything about these thoughts?

[Sam W]

Those are definitely fears I've heard people have, and sometimes had myself, around taking time for self care or for simply enjoying myself. There are a few different approaches to those thoughts, and you might find some or all of them helpful. One is to remind yourself that we're all deserving of care and pleasure, even if we don't always feel like we are or are told by others that we don't deserve those things. Or, you can re-frame it for yourself as less about deserving care and more about needing it; we all need those moments of just enjoying ourselves to balance out the slog that life can be sometimes. When we don't take those moments, we tend to end up burnt out and lacking the energy to do the other things we need or want to do.

As far as those fears about addiction, I find it helpful to remember that "addiction" can sometimes be a word tossed around to mean, "you're spending too much time doing something that isn't producing money or other benefits for someone else" or "you're enjoying yourself more often than I, random person, think you should be." Goodness knows we all have time periods where we get really into doing something because it makes us feel good, especially if it's something new (humans tend to like novelty). And sometimes we have to mindful of whether indulging in something we really like is getting in the way of other things that really need our attention. But ultimately, doing nice things for ourselves, even if we do them frequently, isn't something we can get addicted to. Does that all make sense?

[kokoPeg]

Yea, it does. Thank you. And I just want to say sorry for taking other’s time when they have a lot more pressing matters than this.

[Mo]

You aren't taking time away from other users, so please don't apologize! We're here to help you just as much as we're here to help anyone else who posts on the message boards.

[kokoPeg]

Okay, hello, I’m back and I have a question. So I think I have given dysphoria a run for it’s money because I don’t get dysphoric anymore when I touch myself. But now I have maybe a bigger problem.
So like, I still feel a lot of guilt and shame when I do it. And I have noticed that I only get a little boost in feeling good for maybe like an hour, after that it starts to go the other way and I get really depressed that I did it. And I tell myself “you need to stop.”

[Elise]

Hi there kokoPeg, and welcome back. I'm sorry to hear that whilst your dysphoria is alleviated (which is good to hear, in-and-of-itself, do you know what helped lead to this), that you are feeling a lot of shame at the moment. This is a theme that has come up a few times for you in this thread. A while back you mentioned potentially bringing this up with your new therapist (since your previous one retired). Did you end up trying that?

We have a few good articles about combating sexual shame on the main Scarleteen website - do any of the themes discussed resonate with you?

• The Sex Goddess Blues: Overcoming Sexual Shame
• Undoing Sexual Shame

[kokoPeg]

(which is good to hear, in-and-of-itself, do you know what helped lead to this)

Yea, I think so I have been talking to one of my nurses about it, and she really helped me think differently. I also get in a lot of positions that a person with a vagina would do to be penetrated. So yea, that’s helps.

[Sofi]

That's great to hear! I'm glad you have someone to talk to about it, and that you found something that works for you. Did you get a chance to read either of the articles Elise linked, and if so did you find any helpful info or anything you have questions about?

[kokoPeg]

Did you get a chance to read either of the articles Elise linked, and if so did you find any helpful info or anything you have questions about?

Yea, I did, I’ll have to read them again though. Because currently I have figured that (I think) where my sexual shame comes from (which this part is weird, sorry) my sadness and grief over not being able to bare a child. Not only do I think it makes me feel less than a woman, almost a gynecoid. I just feel this deep sadness for how I will never be able to truly connect and raise a child.

So currently I think it is best for me to take a deep and long break from masturbation. I think the connection of masturbating and giving birth for me comes from (and I’m sorry to bring this up again) the first ever time I masturbated was to donate sperm.

I feel like I owe everyone on this thread an apology. I’m really sorry for making you take time of your day for me. And all the weird/creepy things I have brought up. Sorry again.