Scarleteen

Michaela wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:53 am Hi emily233 and welcome to the boards-- we're happy you're here!

Jacob filled me in on what has been going on. I am so sorry that your parents have been treating you in ways that are humiliating for you and that they have continued this behavior despite your attempts to talk to them. You deserve respect too no matter your age or if you act out in ways your parents feel they want to punish.

Before we talk about ways to move forward, how have you tried to approach this conversation with them before?

Heather wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:13 pm Hi there, emily.

Often, when we grow up with people who abuse us, we learn to operate within the cycles and patterns of that abuse. We also -- understandably! -- are usually trying everything we can to placate those folks, or not disrupt whatever they want, because we know that doing so can lead to more abuse.

Do you feel like this is a conversation that even has the potential to go well for you, in any circumstance? For instance, have you ever had anything else where you have been able to tell them what they're doing isn't okay that resulted in a change of their behavior?

If not, and especially since it sounds like the only times it feels like you can bring it up is when they are already activated, I wonder if we might not want to explore some other options, like reaching out to an extended family member for help, or a teacher or counselor at school? I know it sucks to even think about telling others about something you feel ashamed about, but I do want to remind you here that these aren't your actions, you know? Any shame here isn't yours, but that of the people doing this to you. <3

Heather wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:12 pm Abuse isn't anything that makes you unhappy. Here's a piece on our site that explains what it is in long form: Blinders Off: Getting a Good Look at Abuse and Assault.

The tl;dr, if you don't have the spoons for the longer piece, is that abuse is when someone uses what power they have over someone else to control them in some way, and is also doing something that intentionally causes some kind of harm, be it physical, emotional or otherwise.

It does sound like you might be able to talk to them about this, but to have a productive conversation, it will need to be at a time when everyone has a cool head, so you're going to have to rock that boat some. Can you ask if they can set a time with you to have a talk about the spanking? We can brainstorm with you about how to have a conversation about it, if you like.

Mo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:26 pm Maybe if your mom asks what you want to talk about, you could say something like "I'd rather wait until you're both here so we can all have just one conversation together." Do you think she'd accept that without pushing for more information?

Sam W wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:53 am Hi emily233,

I think asking her today so there's not a big gap between the ask and your dad being home is a sound call!

When it comes to having the conversation, one thing it can help to remember is that while things we say can certainly influence other people's reactions, it's ultimately their choice in how they respond to your talking about this. You know your parents better than we do, so one starting place for brainstorming this conversation is: in the past, when you've had similar conversations that have gone well, did you use certain approaches or frame things a certain way that they seemed really receptive to?

I do want to address the comment you made a few replies ago about the article Heather shared. You're right that not everything that matches the definition of abuse is considered illegal. Spanking is a really good example of that, because in spite of us, and many, many, many other organizations, researchers, and people who work with youth explaining all the detriments of it and that it's abuse, it's hard to get it treated as such. That's for a lot of reasons, including the ways in which most cultures view young people's relationships to their parents. That sucks, and I wanted to acknowledge that you were picking up on a genuine issue when getting people to treat abuse by parents as, well, abuse.

Heather wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:19 pm Just to toss in a maybe-middle-ground to start with for this conversation, how about framing this as spanking at your age feeling like something that is not at all age-appropriate for you? After all, usually at this age, parents aren't toileting you anymore, and are allowing you more privacy when it comes to your body. Engaging with your bottom rolls you back to that, and it sounds like they mean to, saying it is "treating you like a child," and it just isn't appropriate to treat the body of a 13-year-old like it is a toddler's body. Doing so absolutely adds an element of humiliation (spanking generally is all about that period, but that's a larger issue and probably won't help you get far with them), and humiliating someone isn't really providing a consequence of your behaviour.

You might also give them some suggestions of ways they could address something like you did that were actually more appropriate and were not about humiliation: like paying them for any damage caused, cleaning up a made mess, or losing privileges of doing leisure things if and when you haven't made the contributions to your home you're responsible for or don't come home at the time you agreed to.

If something like that doesn't work, or they don't seem to get it, that might be a better time to go a little deeper and tell them that spanking is considered abuse by many people, and that's why it isn't even lawful in some states or nations.

What do you think?

Elise wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:58 am Hi there Emily, I’m sorry to hear that you’re dealing with this at the moment.

Yes, sometimes people choose consequences that are primarily made to shame/hurt the person doing the thing, however not all need be like this. The type that Heather are describing can be about acknowledging that you did something that needs to be put right and healed, and be connected to the thing that happened.

If you think this kind of line of discussion might work with your parents, as it did with some of their boundaries you discussed like going out and getting tutoring, you could suggest that you’d like to try consequences more connected to making things right and connected to the actual boundary broken/hurt caused, so that you can contribute to making it right and not doing it again. Using their own words can be useful in this kind of situation, so “rules” and then explaining “consequences” connected to them.

For some examples:
Say you broke someone’s kindle in anger (not that you might, but as an example) - this might look like apologising, saving up money to fix it or get them a new one/contribute to that new one, and not being able to access a similar device of your own until that was done or an agreed period of time, and perhaps committing to trying an activity that could help you redirect your anger response for a period of time. As opposed to the current strategy, this helps you fix the harm, and experience having a similar thing to the person who can’t use their device any more because it’s broken.

Does that sound like something your parents might be willing to listen to?