Scarleteen

Hello! I just recently entered a triad with two partners. Honestly, I'm very happy with our relationship so far as we have great chemistry and communication. However, I have been feeling insecure about my capabilities to perform during sex as well as my adequacy as a sexual partner. These insecurities don't really have to do with them but more so me and my own past experiences, but I want to talk about it with an objective third party first before I talk to them about it so I'm clear on what I'm feeling, what I want, and the solution to this.

At first, I wasn't satisfied with our sex because I couldn't orgasm, in part because it takes a lot for me to orgasm since I am on antidepressants and because the only way I can orgasm is through clit stimulation or nipple stimulation which I wasn't getting a lot of that when we first started having sex. I told them shortly after what was going on, how I was feeling, and what I needed from them during sex to get me to orgasm and they listened to me, validated me, and gave me what I needed the next time we had sex. I think it resolved nicely and now we're having really good sex where everyone feels satisfied. However, the way we are having sex is bringing up a lot of insecurities for me.

I have tried many, many times in many different ways to achieve orgasm solely through vaginal intercourse, but it's never worked for me and I discovered the reason why some years ago: I'm intersex. My clit is more enlarged than usual and I don't have as much "stimulation" from the inside because most of it is on the outside so therefore it hasn't really been possible for me to orgasm that way. For a while it made me feel broken, like something was wrong with my body, because I had partners who had a heavy focus on intercourse, but then I met my ex and our sex consisted entirely of outercourse because she too had the same problem and it made me feel validated in my sex and secure. Now, however, I am faced again with this insecurity because my partners are very intercourse heavy and focused.

One of my partners, who is a cis woman, (let's call her Jill) can orgasm solely through vaginal intercourse. In fact, she doesn't need any other stimulation at all to achieve orgasm. So to satisfy her needs either I or my other partner (let's call them Lake) need to perform intercourse on her either through a toy, fingers, or Lake's penis to get her to orgasm. We never focus on anything else but that, not her nipples, not her clit, just penetration. Lake also cums through penetration so naturally what happens is that they first both make me orgasm through nipple and clit stimulation, then they perform intercourse in front of me, leaving me completely out... It honestly feels extremely isolating and I feel detached from them, like I'm a spectator or a side piece rather than a participant or a partner. And that's pretty much how we always have sex now and I'm not really happy with it. Not only do I feel excluded, but it also brings up the insecurity of mine that I'm broken because I can't cum through intercourse and that I am not a fit sexual partner because I don't have a penis to make her cum with (which also brings up some dysphoria as a trans person) and it's a pretty horrible feeling. I can engage with them sexually in other ways (like sucking on Jill's nipples or stimulating Lake's anus) but I feel like it doesn't do much for them and so I'm quite literally just a side piece.

In addition, I worry that my partners may also have an unhealthy relationship with sex because they are survivors of sexual violence and may associate sex with their worth. The reason I say this is because of some comments they've made about sex. For example, Lake once said that they feel like they "owe" their partners sex even when they don't want to engage in it with their partner. I told them that they don't owe anyone anything even when they "promise" to have sex with someone because sex isn't something you owe, it's something you enjoy. Jill also concerns me because she says the only way she can really enjoy sex and feel horny is when she's either drunk or high which I don't think is healthy. In fact yesterday, we were making out on the bed and she looks at me and says "I don't feel horny I'm sorry." And I said "I don't need sex. I'm enjoying my time with you. This doesn't have to lead to anything and it's completely fine." She then apologizes again and says "Sorry I'm broken for not being horny." And I said "You're not broken at all. You have a right to not feel horny. In fact, it's normal for you not to feel that way sometimes. We don't need to have sex." Lake and I start cooking dinner and Jill starts to smoke weed, then goes to the bedroom, dresses in lingerie, and comes out saying she now wants sex. Although she looked beautiful in that outfit and I was extremely turned on by her, it just didn't feel right. It felt almost forced. So when I was having sex with her I felt like it was more of a performance than it was a genuine encounter because I feel like she forced herself to get horny with weed to "appease me" when I didn't need to be appeased at all. In fact, I was meeting later with my other partner who I was going to have sex with so I REALLY didn't need to have it with her. But no matter how many times I said it, it was like she felt like she needed to give it to me. And although I like having sex with them, I feel like our relationship is HEAVILY reliant on sex and it makes it feel disingenuous, like they're giving me sex because they feel like they "owe me" rather than because they GENUINELY want to have sex with me.

So I feel two things: insecure because I feel like I don't fit in with their sex and worried because I feel like they're having sex with me not because they want to but because they feel they need to. Both of those things don't feel good and I want to talk to them to come up with a resolution for this, but I also want to first detangle everything myself first before I approach them about it. Any advice?

Hey Mixxes -- there's a lot we can talk about here so I'm going to start small. Can you talk more about the conversation you had before with them about the issues you felt were resolved? How was it resolved the next time, and has that remained consistent? I'm asking because you said you were satisfied and then went into explaining why you aren't. I'm wondering if the dynamic is they have vaginal intercourse and then turn their attention to you after - is that accurate?

Of course. So it took me a bit to realize I wasn’t satisfied because I guess I’m just used to not orgasming now? And when I did I told them about how I was feeling. I told them that I had a lot of difficulty orgasming, that I wanted to orgasm, and that I needed clit and nipple stimulation to get there. I also told them that I felt insecure about me having difficulty orgasming and that I felt bad asking for extra support. They were very supportive and affirming with everything I had to say. They told me that they understood why I was feeling the way I was feeling and said they really didn’t mind focusing their attention on the things that get me to orgasm on me. So now the dynamic we have is that they both first get me to orgasm, they have intercourse and finish up with each other. I thought I was satisfied with that dynamic, but I’m now realizing I’m not because I feel left out of the equation in their orgasms.

I can understand that! It sounds like maybe you don't feel like a part of things as much when your partners are having intercourse. Maybe you can talk about the way that you could be involved in that, or if there are things other than intercourse that you could all do together. I do think it might be worth taking a look at the experience of sex with them as a whole, and not just in that moment of orgasm; sometimes people think of orgasm as the entire point or most important part of sex, but the rest of the experience is important too! If you feel like you're missing out on something in that moment of orgasm, it might be helpful to consider if that feels like you're missing out on a vulnerable moment, additional emotional intimacy, etc. and see if there's a way you can feel a part of those things during some other part of sex.

Im not quite sure how I can when they’re both very intercourse centered and geared. They say they don’t need intercourse, but that’s usually the go to sex act for them and is what their sex is centered around, which leaves me out of the equation most of the time.

Hi Mixxes, I hope it's okay that I'm stepping in here. Do you think that it would benefit your relationship if you brought up some of Mo's advice to them? I know that you expressed your concerns to them, but I can see how it is irritating to orgasm first and then just sit on the side and wait for them to finish. Maybe you can discuss ways that they can incorporate you in their penetration? I don't necessarily mean that you have to be penetrated, as you have mentioned that it does not make you feel good, but rather become involved in other ways. This could be through forms of physical touch, such as petting, stroking, massage, etc. It might help to try asking them if they would be interested in this. I do not have much experience with triad relationships, so please let me know if anything resonates with you.

Also, as for your partners' feelings of needing to provide sex rather than wanting to have sex, I think you have a pretty good understanding where this comes from, since you said that they associate pleasuring others with their worth due to past sexual trauma. I know you said that you want to approach them about this, but this may be a very sensitive subject for them, so it will be important to be careful when navigating the conversation. I do want to assure you that it is good that you truly care about them and have concerns about their relationship with sex. We can go into this more if you want, but I know it might help to answer one question at a time.

So it’s not that I don’t like having intercourse at all, it’s that it doesn’t really sexually stimulate me very much and I can’t orgasm from it. However, if my partner wants to have it with me, I enjoy it because they’re enjoying it if that makes sense and that’s what sexually stimulates me: the fact that my partner is getting pleasure out of it.

I actually talked to them about my concerns and insecurities about intercourse and as I suspected they took it very well. Jill in particular was very supportive and understanding. She empathized a lot with me and asked a lot of questions to help her understand where I was coming from and learn more about my body. I felt very affirmed. Lake also took it well, but I feel like they weren’t really empathizing with me. Like when I told them I felt broken, they would say “but you’re not broken. You shouldn’t feel broken.” And when I said I felt illegal because sodomy laws basically made it illegal to have sex in the ways that I truly enjoyed they said “it doesn’t matter. Who care if your sex is illegal. You should still do it.” I felt like they didn’t really try to sit in my shoes and inquire about my feelings. I told them that and they then shifted the way they were talking to me and tried to empathize more but I feel like they still don’t really get it. We’re also going to have a conversation as a throuple when we’re all able to meet again to discuss this.

And I would like some pointers on how to bring up the topic of their sexual trauma. I took them to a survivor organization to get free trauma informed therapy, but they still haven’t received it. Jill will be calling soon and enrolling, but Lake says they’re too lazy to get therapy and that really concerns me, especially because they don’t even know what they feel most of the time. And I think they’re coping with things in an unhealthy way (ie. numbing themself, distracting themself, pretending everything is okay when it’s not). I’m afraid that Lake won’t get the help the need.

Hi Mixxes, thank you for clarifying! I am glad that Jill was supportive and understanding of your concerns. As for Lake's response, maybe they could get some insight into your perspective from Jill? Sometimes people will truly never grasp your emotions, but Jill seemed to have really empathized with you, so maybe she can bring some of that perspective to Lake. I'm glad your feelings are at least being affirmed by Jill! Also, please keep us posted on the conversation that you will have as a throuple if you feel comfortable. We are happy to help if you need any more assistance moving forward!

Now, on bringing up the subject of their sexual trauma. You did the right thing by taking them to get specialized therapy, since they are proctored by professionals in the subject. It seems like Jill is on a good path! I understand your worries about Lake. It is important to recognize that everyone recovers from trauma differently. While their coping mechanisms may seem unhealthy, sometimes healing is just not always linear. Could you go into a little more detail about how Lake displays their methods of coping? Is there anything specifically concerning that they have been doing lately? You mentioned a lot about Jill's unhealthy relationship with sex, so it would help if you shared some more about Lake's actions, if you are comfortable of course!

Lastly, we have some pretty good articles on supporting people in your life who have experienced trauma, especially from different perspectives. I will link them below so feel free to check them out if you are interested. I know one of them speaks specifically on supporting a friend (rather than a partner) that has experienced trauma, but it does bring up some good points.

• Blinders Off: Getting a Good Look at Abuse and Assault

• How to Care for Friends Who've Experienced Trauma

• No Grey Area: A Journey Identifying and Healing from Sexual Assault

• Navigating sex and sexuality after a long history of abuse and assault

Lake seems to be coping with their past trauma better than Jill, but I'm afraid it's because they're not confronting what happened. They seem to have moved past it but I don't think they have because it shows up in the way they feel like they owe sex. It seems like they feel they owe partners sex because their ex made them feel like that was the ultimate way of showing love, even though sex isn't the only thing and shouldn't be the only way. And they were shamed for not having sex with them and their ex would get angry and make them feel unsafe if they didn't give in. So when they don't feel like having sex but promised me or Jill to have it, they sort of force themselves to have it anyway. Like one time they had a severe headache and couldn't physically have sex to which I said it was completely alright and that we could do other things like cuddle or just listen to music instead. But they tried to get rid of the headache to be able to have sex with me because they felt like they owed me it since they told me they would have sex with me that night. But it really wasn't necessary. It's similar to Jill's coping mechanism I feel, except Jill uses drugs and alcohol to do it. I tell them both I do not need to have sex with either of them to be happy in the relationship, but I feel like they don't believe it themselves because of their past and what they're used to. I think it may also be because I am a very sexually open person who hosts and attends sex parties, engages in group sex, and talks openly about my sexual ventures so maybe they feel like inadequate partners for me? Although Lake is pretty sexually open like me, but just doesn't have as much experience and Jill seems to be open, but I'm not sure if it's because she feels like she needs to in order to be my partner? I'm just not quite sure how to help them not feel that way and how I can support them.

In addition, the other day Lake and I had a foursome with a couple I knew and it was really good. The couple was very nice and respectful. They were very accepting of our trans identities and made us feel safe. But when we told Jill about it, she kind of broke down and felt upset because she felt excluded. We did invite her but she wasn't available and lived too far away. She also isn't as into group sex as we are. So now she feels excluded in the triad because she doesn't have group sex with other people with us and it makes her feel insecure. She also feels insecure because my relationship with Lake is moving a little faster than my relationship with her, but I told her she doesn't have to go faster just because Lake and I have already reached the point in our relationship where we love each other. I just feel like she compares my relationship with Lake a little too much and is scared Lake will leave her for me. She has mentioned being scared of Lake leaving her. It makes me feel a little like maybe she's just dating me to not lose Lake? That's something I'm a little worried about, too. I just feel like I don't really know what feelings from Jill are genuine or are part of her insecurities if that makes sense.

Hi Mixxes,

It sounds like you're already doing a lot to make it clear to your partners that you don't have those same warped expectations around "owing" sex that they encountered in the past. In some ways, that's really the main thing you can do; you can create a safe relationship and make your respect for their consent and needs clear, but unlearning those thought patterns and survival mechanisms will be things they have to do for themselves. I think for now, keeping up that clear communication and checking in with them about if/how you can support them is the way to go.

As far as those worries about Jill, and her worries about being excluded, when was the last time the three of you had a concerted conversation or check-in about how you're each feeling about the relationship? Does it seem like it might be time for another one?

So we had a conversation as a throuple but it feels like it’s going nowhere. Jill constantly feels excluded, constantly feels alone, constantly feel alone and I just don’t know what to do about it anymore because I’m trying my best, and so is lake, to include her. I’ve planned dates with her, Lake is making more of an effort to call her, we’re trying our best but it almost feels like nothing we do is enough. We’ve been having a lot of arguments as a triad and most of the time it’s because Jill feels excluded. Jill lives an hour away from Lake and I. Lake and I live super close. But what usually ends up happening is that I see Lake either on Wednesday or Thursday or both days, and Lake goes to see Jill from Friday to Tuesday and I drop in to see them on Saturday or Sunday. Jill literally spends more time with Lake than I do, but feels like I spend more time with them because we’re close to each other. But I’m busy and I have other things going on besides Lake. And not only that, but I feel Jill doesn’t make the effort to see me and spend time with me without Lake, but she never complains about that. It almost feels like she only cares about Lake. And then when we’re all together, I almost feel like it’s a competition between her and I rather than a partnership. I understand that her and Lake have been together for almost two years, but it feels like I’m irrelevant because her main concern is often Lake and her spending time with them. It almost feels like she thinks I’m in the way of that and it makes me want to just disappear.

I talked to her alone about this and she says that she’s working on it, but that she’s had a lot of bad experiences with her previous triads and that I need to be patient with her. And then Lake feels guilty when we hang out alone so when they see her, they tend to give her more attention than they do me, which I don’t mind, but it makes me feel like I’m a side piece in the relationship rather than a partner. It almost feels like Jill and Lake are the main relationship and I’m a secondary. But Jill says that she feels like the secondary to me and Lake’s relationship, which to me makes no sense. Lake also feels guilty when they hang out alone with Jill because they feel like I’m upset about it, when I’m not and I’ve never expressed that I am. In fact, we once went out together to an event, but I had a date with another partner in the event so I stayed with my date and they did their own thing. They paid for a caricature painting together and when Lake saw me again, they said they wanted to paint me in with them because they felt guilty I wasn’t in the picture, but I didn’t mind that I wasn’t because I was on my own date. It didn’t make any sense to me at all. And then they felt unappreciated because I didn’t want that, I just wanted them to enjoy their time together and not worry about me. And now because of that, I feel like every time Lake and I hang out together, Lake is feeling guilty about Jill and feels like they need to include Jill in everything and I just don’t understand it.

I don’t understand why I can’t have a relationship with Lake, Jill has a relationship with Lake, and I have a relationship with Jill without everyone feeling guilty and excluded. I just don’t get it. And it makes me feel so frustrated because often times I’m accused of things I don’t even think or feel. I just don’t know what to do at this point.

Hi Mixxes,

That all sounds pretty exhausting and frustrating for the three of you, although it sounds like you in particular are feeling like they keep projecting thoughts onto you that are very different from how you actually feel.

Do you have a sense of whether non-monogamy is something Jill actively wants or pursues? Or does it seem from your conversations with her that it's more been something she goes along with for whatever reason? I ask because some of what you're describing sounds like Jill being in an non-monogamous situation when she's not certain she wants to be. Too, does it feel like your time with Lake is increasingly taken over by them worrying about Jill? Or is it more that you're picking up on them feeling guilty?

Honestly, it sounds like Ashley is a monogamous person. She even said herself that she sounds like a monogamous person too. The funny thing is she has another partner, Charles, and they’ve been together for 8 years but she says she’s lost passion for him. She still loves him, but they feel more like roommates than partners. And with me it’s kinda like she’s not really that into me and only wants to be with me for Lake. I think she might also be on the ace spectrum but won’t admit it because she feels like she has to “keep up” with Lake and I’s sex drive so she does substances to get her there. I think she’s having a hard time coming to terms with who she is and is comparing herself to me because she feels like I give Lake everything they need and I will take Lake away from her, when that was never my intention.

And honestly, it does feel like Lake and I’s time is cut by them worrying about Jill or feel guilty about something with Jill and constantly thinking about Jill. It almost feels like we can’t do anything together without them thinking about what Jill will think.

Hi Mixxes,

I think it might be time to have a conversation about this with Jill. I think contemplating the possibilities without taking initiative to speak to her can lead to stress for yourself and everyone else involved in the relationship. I would ask her about what you’ve been observing and see what she says. After that, definitely let us know if anything she said struck a chord or worried you. We are here to help.

With this, I think you should also open up about your dynamic with Lake so Jill understands that there is nothing to worry about. She seems quite attached to Lake and I do not want this to cause her to have distrust in you. Distrust can easily lead to more issues in a relationship. However, I know you have some difficulty with your relationship with Lake because of Jill and I can understand why it is frustrating. I would recommend to bring this up to Lake separately, as we aren’t sure how Jill would take it. Communication is my greatest advice here. I would start off by approaching Jill and Lake separately on their own issues, and then sitting down together and figuring this all out once you get everyone’s perspective. I know it can be difficult to keep all these thoughts in and think too much into what goes on in your partners’ heads. It might just be time to get your questions answered so you can have some peace in your relationship. Please let me know if that helps. Take care!

I decided to break up with Jill because our conversations were going nowhere and my friends helped me realize that she was behaving in a manipulative and controlling manner with me and I could not tolerate it. I also realized that I wasn’t myself with her at all and I felt like I was constantly walking on eggshells with her, so I decided to end it. Lake is still with her, which concerns me because she is showing signs of unhealthy, toxic behavior like having unrealistic expectations that she demands and gets mad at if we don’t fulfill, invalidating my perceptions of the situation, gaslighting me, creating constant chaos and arguments, and using emotional blackmail. It’s all the signs of emotional abuse. However, I cannot control Lake nor make them realize what’s happening. They have to themself. So I am now just dating Lake and Lake is dating Jill.

I am a little worried that Lake will break up with me because Jill will guilt them and emotionally force them to, but that’s out of my control. All I can do is foster a healthy relationship and environment for Lake and support them when they need support. I’m not expecting them to realize what’s happening, but I think through time and with therapy (which they are attending and we plan on attending together) it might start clicking for them. I’m just not going to force it, just be there and enjoy our relationship separate from Jill.

Hi Mixxes, I am glad that you listened to the people in your life about your relationship with Jill. Sometimes an outsider's viewpoint can really help put things into perspective for you. I am really sorry that your experience with approaching Jill led to nowhere. This was clearly causing you a lot of stress and in the end, you should put your peace of mind first. Have you approached Lake about Jill's behavior? I know you mentioned that you can't control Lake, but maybe try sharing some of the warning signs that you have encountered with Jill. I know you care a lot about Lake so I don't think it would hurt if you just gave them a heads up about your experiences and concerns.

Also, I can absolutely understand your worries about Jill forcing Lake to break up with you. It really is out of your control, but I do want to emphasize that if Lake ends up leaving you because of Jill's doing, then that is their loss. If they really wanted to be with you, they would not take the opinions of Jill over their interest in you. Although, I am glad that you still care for Lake and want to be a positive force in their life. I think you are doing everything right here, especially with therapy! Please let us know how that goes, if you feel comfortable of course! Please take care.

We’ve run into yet another dilemma. Lake now wants me to apologize to Jill but I have nothing to apologize for. Lake said that it’s because they feel that an apology will get Jill to stop being in pain and will solve the problem of Jill’s suffering because they know Jill needs one. And my other partner, who is metas with Jill, asked Jill if she needed an apology and Jill said no. She just wanted closure. So I’m confused now as to who is saying they want an apology or not. Not only that but Lake is acting distant from me because they’re “devoting all their energy to Jill cause they need it” and they have “no energy left to give me”. And they say they don’t want to have serious conversations cause they’re tired of having serious conversations and weren’t “built for them”, but this is something we really need to talk about because I feel like Lake is portraying me as a villain who hurt Jill tremendously, wants me to apologize for something I don’t need to apologize for, and is treating me like a secondary partner rather than an equal. And it’s also confusing because Lake says they have high anxiety because of Jill’s feelings, but then says they don’t have any serious conversations. It just doesn’t make sense. I’m very confused by this treatment and don’t understand why they’re saying and doing these things. And my meta says Jill never said anything that Lake is telling me Jill said so now I’m confused about who’s lying or not. Things are not adding up.

Hi Mixxes,

From the sound of it, your relationship with Lake may also be heading towards an end. Them saying things like they have no energy left for you and that they're "not built for serious conversations" seems to be them telling you where their priorities lie in terms of their relationships and that they're not open to trying to work out the kinks in the relationship between you two. Too, if you're feeling like a secondary partner, that's not a great sign, you know?

As far as an apology or "closure" goes, if it was important to you to do those things we could talk about how to have that conversation with Jill. But it sounds like that's all coming from outside sources, and ultimately you don't owe Jill some final conversation about what happened.

So we took a small break so that they could collect their feelings and think clearly. When we came back to talk they apologized for their behavior and for trying to get me to apologize to Jill when I didn’t want to. They said that they were just very stressed because every time they hung out with Jill now Jill was super depressed and constantly triggered, which then stressed Lake out and led to them feeling guilty whenever they had a good time with me or were happy with me. So to counter their guilt they tried to prioritize Jill to make her happy and try to help her get over her depression and tried to get me to apologize to Jill cause they believed that would cure Jill of her depression and get her back to “normal” again. But they acknowledged that they couldn’t do anything about Jill’s feelings and had to just let it be.
However, Lake seems to still be very stressed about Jill. It doesn’t seem like their relationship is healthy and I feel sometimes like Lake takes it out on me. Whenever they’re feeling extremely stressed and tired (which is often with Jill) they start getting agitated and saying things that don’t make sense and do not have to do with anything in our relationship. For example, me and Lake are often late to things because we both have ADHD and tend to get very distracted. When I was with Jill, Jill would get extremely upset with us, rescind affection, and then lash out whenever we came late to an event. Now Lake is dealing with it on her own with Jill and whenever they’re tired and stressed they start telling me that I have to be early to things because it’s not right that I’m late and it enables their late behavior which then affects her relationship with Jill. However, it’s completely fine in our relationship and we’ve never had a problem with it with each other so it made no sense why Lake was talking to me about that when it wasn’t an issue in our relationship, but in Jill and Lake’s. And I told them that Jill shouldn’t be trying to change Lake nor should Lake be trying to change me on Jill’s behalf. Jill could set boundaries with Lake but to change Lake and guilt them seems unhealthy to me. And it’s even more unhealthy that Lake is then trying to get me to change because of Jill.
What’s even more concerning and confusing is that Lake says she has absolutely no arguments or discussions with Jill and that their relationship is perfect, but I can literally see how much stress they’re constantly in being in that relationship and it makes no sense why Lake would say it’s perfect and stable when it’s not. But then they pick arguments with me and say that they wish I was more like Jill and didn’t argue with them. But Jill does argue with them. I’ve seen it many times. Lake is just not making sense right now.

Hi there Mixxes, sorry to hear you’re having some stressful interactions with Lake right now.
It sounds like he isn’t coping very well with things at the moment, and sometimes that can lead to people not making a lot of sense when they’re under stress, and sometimes the threat of a relationship ending can lead to people behaving in ways that aren’t the best for them or those around them to try and avoid that/because the feelings they have about that trigger them.

What you can do for yourself right now I think is reflect on to what bandwidth you have to interact with Lake - generally and on this topic. This can look like deciding how many invitations to hang out you undertake a week, or how frequently you text, and also boundaries around topics of conversation eg. “I think it’s best we don’t talk about your relationship with Jill so how about we do [activity you enjoy]/talk about what’s going on with [topic]”, it can also look like “I’m going to have to head off/offline if you keep criticising me in this way”, “I’m not comfortable talking about the details of your relationship with Jill but I would like to support you by [insert something you’d be comfortable with if anything]”.
If Lake pushes these, then you’d need to decide what you will do in that case. Does that sound doable for you? Do you have any thoughts on what you’d like?