I have this fetish that's dangerous and can't get rid of

[Knr]

I have this fetish of becoming fat and I don't know how to stop it.

I'm only a little above the correct weight and my nutritionist has confirmed what going beyond would cause and thus I need to be thinner (common knowledge redundancy apart I guess).

I'm taking therapy and only casually mentioned "well I have no other option but to loose do I?", and then the psychiatrist just answered "yes, if you want to be in good conditions". Didn't go any further.

And so here I am, aware that what I want is running into a concrete wall, and that I must stay away from the body I want to have for my own sake. I hate to be shrinking and becoming less of myself so to speak but reality is reality. So the best thing I could do is end with this unsatisfied part of me but I don't know how. I'd rather live longer even if I don't feel any passion or excitment for my physique. I don't think the psychiatrist I mentioned can sort of make me change my mind to stop longing for diseases, so just in case I have the most minimal chance I want to try and see if there are people that managed to do it.

If you could answer, I would be very thankful.

[Heather]

Hi there, knr.

Personally, I would be wary of a nutritionist in 2022 that didn't acknowledge there is no such thing as one right weight, shape or size, or that was telling you you needed to be thinner. We simply have so much data by now than we did even just a decade ago. The way it sounds like this person is talking to you suggests to me they either haven't kept current with their education, or they are purposefully holding on to old ideas we know now are really broken, and can do people harm.

I'm not sure what you mean here by calling the desire to be fat a fetish. Fetishes are when someone needs a thing -- generally an object, not a person or a way of being in a body -- in order to experience sexual desire or arousal, very specifically. This obviously isn't that. I hear you saying you want your body to be a way that it currently isn't, and that you feel you would be more satisfied with a bigger body than you currently have. Do I have that right?

[Knr]

Hi there, knr.

Personally, I would be wary of a nutritionist in 2022 that didn't acknowledge there is no such thing as one right weight, shape or size, or that was telling you you needed to be thinner. We simply have so much data by now than we did even just a decade ago. The way it sounds like this person is talking to you suggests to me they either haven't kept current with their education, or they are purposefully holding on to old ideas we know now are really broken, and can do people harm.

I'm not sure what you mean here by calling the desire to be fat a fetish. Fetishes are when someone needs a thing -- generally an object, not a person or a way of being in a body -- in order to experience sexual desire or arousal, very specifically. This obviously isn't that. I hear you saying you want your body to be a way that it currently isn't, and that you feel you would be more satisfied with a bigger body than you currently have. Do I have that right?

This nutritionist didn't just use weight, it was fat percentage, muscle and total weight. When I went there was this scale to measure your tissues using electric waves or something like that.

Essentially what I was told was that body fat percentage has to be inside this and that limit, because if not then blah blah blah. You know the rest.

Indeed I'm not satisfied with my body and as I loose weight I only think more about it. I'm just looking for a way to not care anymore, to stop reacting to it and leave this thought in the past. I just called it fetish because it seemed to me but I admit to ignore the accurate usage.

[Heather]

Right: all of those things, that whole way of seeing things, stands counter to data we have about fat and health in 2022. And if you have also been telling this person that your body doesn't feel right to you at the size they are saying it should be, they should absolutely not be telling you you have to keep it smaller to be healthy. Again, not only does that stand counter to current science, it also can be really dangerous for people with eating disorders.

But you know, a nutritionist can't actually tell you what FEELS right for your body, period. No one actually can do that but you. And if you want some expert support around that, a therapist or support group where anyone you are talking to is more current and body accepting in their framework would be the way to go.

This sounds to me like it's more of a body image issue than anything else, unless this is only or mostly about sex and sexuality for you. Do you have the ability/agency to just let your body be, rather than trying to lose weight, and give yourself time -- as in, months, years -- to get a sense of how IT wants to be, including how you want to eat and move it, and then see how you feel?

[Knr]

Right: all of those things, that whole way of seeing things, stands counter to data we have about fat and health in 2022.

But how can I get proof? I see these people and I know they are professional from all their titles, all their recognition from others like them, etc. From a while I've been under the impression that I'm in a sort of loophole of not knowing who to trust. Like, if it isn't this, then what?

Do you have the ability/agency to just let your body be, rather than trying to lose weight, and give yourself time -- as in, months, years -- to get a sense of how IT wants to be, including how you want to eat and move it, and then see how you feel?

I wish I could, but I'm honestly terrified that something could happen to me. Irreversible, even... Hence I'm here (and still all that would be after waiting until I'm independent). I don't know exactly if you were refering to the nutritionist (who just gives information and I have no reason to say anything) or the psychiatrist (who I've only told I had to loose weight and nothing else). This latter is just reaffirming it, but the worst part is what I have said, has everything necessary to validate credibility. As much as I long for believing people I don't know for example her over the internet saying what I'd want to hear, I see no objective foundation to believe it. Especially it's discouraging when at times it seems to be in favor of pushing an ideology first and foremost rather than medical science.

Until I'm convinced I could do it with little to no risk, I'm not going to. The most rock solid sources I have state I can't, and everyday I can't help but think how I would give anything to see them proven wrong.

[Carly]

Hey Knr -- The folks here at Scarleteen do some tag-teaming when we're answering posts. I felt that some of the stuff posed in your most recent post is better suited for Heather to speak to - is it ok if I ask some questions I had from your posts so far in the meantime?

Can you explain a little more about your inclination to call how you're feeling about gaining weight a fetish? I know Heather explained more about that term before and how it might not be applicable here. In what ways, if any, does your weight or how you feel about your weight when you think about sex?

I also wanted to ask about you saying that you feel quite literally less of yourself as you lose weight. Can you explain how that feels both literally and mentally?

[Knr]

Can you explain a little more about your inclination to call how you're feeling about gaining weight a fetish?

Probably I chose the word without thought considering the image I had of some of them as being harmful. As Heather explained, it's a different category. I didn't know the correct use.

In what ways, if any, does your weight or how you feel about your weight when you think about sex?

If I understood correctly, I can only picture myself in a higher weight now wheb thinking about it. The idea of me at a lower or even current weight at it would come off as an inferior, bland, unsatisfying experience. If it makes any sense and with no offense intended, as a metaphor it seems to me closer to cuddling with a broomstick (current/lower) rather than a pillow (higher). I'm just left thinking "it could have been way more", "this is not what excites me about it". "I'm puzzled how anyone would like this".

I also wanted to ask about you saying that you feel quite literally less of yourself as you lose weight. Can you explain how that feels both literally and mentally?

In and of itself I wrote that already as a feeling. The metaphor kinda applies here. I feel my body becoming more like the broomstick. Closer to a dry, tasteless, boring skeleton. A cold machine with sharp angles and flat surfaces. It's parts becoming subdued. A feeling of scarcity. All of this that feels detached of myself, like my brain or something was in another, worse body I don't want. I don't know if this abstract representations of "how it feels" are what the question aimed for so if I need to be more specific let me now.

[Heather]

Hey there. I'm sick today, so I'm afraid I only have a limited bit of energy, but I wanted to leave you some links to get you started on more current information and science about bodies, size, and weight. Any of these can lead you into a very rich rabbit hole if you want to explore further:

• Writer Aubrey Gordon: this piece feels like a good place to start for you -- https://elemental.medium.com/the-bizarr ... 8dc2aa33bb -- as does this one -- https://medium.com/elemental-by-medium/ ... c7131eb20c. You can also look up her book, "What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat," and if you are a podcast listener, you can check out her podcast with Michael Hobbes, Maintenance Phase: https://www.instagram.com/maintenancephase/?hl=en
• Sabrina Strings: her book, “Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia” is amazing. This piece is a good smaller start: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -obesity2/ Here's a LifeKit episode that features her: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1067210075
• Sondra Solovay: "The Fat Studies Reader" is a book she co-edited, and here's a good piece relevant to some of what we've started talking about here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/01/21/ob ... index.html
• Harriet Brown: Her book, "Body of Truth" is one place to read her, or you can start with this excellent piece by her at The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... se/388300/

There really are so, so many newer resources out there, and they have been doing this work for decades now, so if you aren't finding sources like these, it might be a matter of what language you are using or where you are (or aren't) looking. Hope these starting places prove fruitful for you.

[Knr]

Thank you, I will absolutely read them in depth when I have time.
Hope you get better soon, but if it's not much to ask right now, what is the point you are trying to make?
"That I don't have to run away?"
I would like to believe, but honestly I don't know who or what to trust anymore. It's like 2 voices having a loud argument and talking over each other to the degree nothing can be taken out clean and stops making sense... Although luckily never saw my parents truly have a heated discussion like that, it's just how I imagine it would come off as.
I'm afraid both that I'll miss on this that lacks but I want so much (and can actually be safe) just based on fear, and I'm also afraid I go after it and it turns out to be detrimental and harmful for health.
I just want out one way or the other. All this uncertainty is taking a toll in my life.

[Heather]

Hey there.

So, I hear you expressing a lot of discomfort in this post with what sounds like someone who has told you your body needs to be smaller than actually feels right to you. What I am sharing is the start of some information to make clear that there often isn't a sound scientific or medical basis in telling people they need to be smaller for their health. I also intended to affirm your own feelings and wants about your own body.

You asked for sources, which is why I shared some.

I don't have a personal agenda here, nor am I in any kind of argument with anyone. I'm also not sure I'm fully understanding what you're looking for here from us, so perhaps if what I have offered doesn't feel like it, you can just try and give us a better idea of how you think we can best help you out?

[Knr]

Hey there.

So, I hear you expressing a lot of discomfort in this post with what sounds like someone who has told you your body needs to be smaller than actually feels right to you. What I am sharing is the start of some information to make clear that there often isn't a sound scientific or medical basis in telling people they need to be smaller for their health. I also intended to affirm your own feelings and wants about your own body.

You asked for sources, which is why I shared some.

I don't have a personal agenda here, nor am I in any kind of argument with anyone. I'm also not sure I'm fully understanding what you're looking for here from us, so perhaps if what I have offered doesn't feel like it, you can just try and give us a better idea of how you think we can best help you out?

Well originally I had started asking if someone had gotten rid of this or managed to somehow change his/her mind on purpose to become like the majority (repulsed by this). As resignation. I thought the chances were minimal but I couldn't think of a space that seemed more safe / professional to write and was where I believed I would get actual useful information.

The problem aren't the sources, not at all, you've done a fantastic helpful job. The problem is that I never expected to be told and attempted to show that on the opposite I had a chance. Thinking I could be free to achieve it seems so grandious in scale... Like if they told you that you'll become president. I always had the image of people who argue against the whole ideology of being thin or face the consequences as out of reach, distant or purposefully evasive (as if knowing they wouldn't be able to debate or defend their point faced directly).

To put it shortly "it's like too goodd to be true" and perhaps I have trouble processing that maybe, just maybe it could be real and valid after only having gotten the impression of it in the past that it simply was a marketing strategy or something (and there I still meant the figures putting out the theme to be exposed, sorry if it seemed I meant you because I never meant it for a non-profit support site).

I just have this annoying tendency to second guess almost everything. To name one, for example I see nearly (if not) all the sources focus on women or more specifically black women. I'm only attracted to fat women as well (which I'm still dealing with but it would be more organized to leave it for another ocasion I imagine, unless actually necessary I don't know) and the psychiatrist I mentioned had said I can be with one who is healthy because women's body work differently. But being fat for men = unhealthy. My subconscious or something then goes like "where is the trick?", "isn't it convinient this is what you wanted to hear?", "are these new sources too good indeed and don't apply to you, a male?" And I bet if I knew then my brain would come up with a new one.

[Sam W]

Hi Knr,

I very much get what you mean with that reaction of "this is too good to be true." Part of that is that our cultural narratives around weight are SO insidious and ingrained in us from such a young age that a lot of reactions, including from our own brains, to data that counters those messages can provoke a really strong reaction. If you're already prone to second guessing things, I can see how it would be easy to get caught up in the idea that this feels too good to be true.

I think steering yourself towards Maintenance Phase and Aubrey and Michael's other work on weight and health (like this piece: https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/art ... -is-wrong/)might be the best step right now. Not only do their writings often apply to all genders, but they are rigorous in terms of research and thorough in their deconstructions of ideas and junk science, which may help silence some of those second guesses you're experiencing.

I also want to address those feelings on gender and weight. First of all, your psychiatrist is just plain wrong; people of any gender can be fat without it being a health issue. Second of all, I wonder if it might help to find some examples of men's bodies that very obviously contradict the idea that fat=unhealthy (that seems like one of the main ideas to focus on breaking down for you). Have you ever looked into that sort of thing?

[Knr]

I wonder if it might help to find some examples of men's bodies that very obviously contradict the idea that fat=unhealthy (that seems like one of the main ideas to focus on breaking down for you). Have you ever looked into that sort of thing?

Hello there, if you mean a concrete case to exemplify it then I have a friend who is 400lb according to him directly, and his readings are all normal. He also claims his grandmother at 80 years old is likewise very large without complications, and talked to me about the type of material you have made the effort to gather.

I believe him but yet again my brain
as a separate entity of aome sorts goes asking: for how long until something happens to both of them, which readings are they not getting that show they're in trouble and that there must obviously be as much sources to disprove all of this ones.

The psychiatrist has given me prescriptions for what I suppose is brain activity (regardless of topic) so it may not be working.

I don't know what to do, perhaps stale until I no longer have to see thisnperson while getting my medication, but at risk of repeating myself- no idea how or if I'm going to be at peace with this.

[Michaela]

Hi Knr,

I'm not quite sure if I'm understanding you correctly. But, what I think I'm hearing from your last post is that one of the main things you are dealing with are fatphobic comments from your psychiatrist. However, you have to keep seeing them at the moment because they are prescribing you medication.

There are a couple of ways we could move forward from here. We could talk more about your personal thoughts around body image or discuss some of those resources that were given earlier. We could also talk through ways of changing healthcare providers if your current psychiatrist is making these comments to you. Or talk about how to navigate healthcare provider relationships. Do any of those sound like things you would like to chat about or is there a different specific direction you would like to take the conversation?

[Knr]

Do any of those sound like things you would like to chat about or is there a different specific direction you would like to take the conversation?

I don't think it will be necessary, I had an appointment and the psychiatrist for some reason kind of agreed with pretty much everything I brought up from the sources I got right here... So it comes down to simply a misunderstanding. The one that does seem overly superficial/assuming of old science or even fatphobic is maybe the nutritionist I mentioned but I don't have any plans to meet again.

[Nicole]

Hi Knr,
I hope it's okay that I'm jumping in here. I am glad that everything is moving forward with your psychiatrist and you have taken the initiative to not meet with the nutritionist again. Please let us know if we can assist you in any other way, take care!