How to deal with transphobia from unexpected places?

[oneboikyle]

Hi
So, I have a friend (who is also a housemate), who is in the care of a gender identity clinic, but dislikes identifying as trans* (which is obviously fine). However, as a trans* person who has learned to be proud of my identity, and who finds the trans* community as a whole a very useful, supportive thing, I'm finding her comments about trans* people in general being rubbish really hard to deal with.

This friend has passed as cis female from childhood (outside of family) and continues to do so, despite having a typically masculine name. She never went through a testosterone puberty, and this is probably down to an intersex condition (her suspicions, I'm not sure if they've been confirmed medically). That said, she does have some experiences which are similar to a lot of trans* people - having to come out to family, a birth certificate that says the wrong gender on it, stuff like that. She often complains that she dislikes trans* women because they complain too much, and often says that trans* women all get jealous of her and that's why she doesn't like being friends with them (but, she says, being friends with trans* guys doesn't bother her). She also often makes comments about how being trans* is rubbish, despite (more often) saying things like "I'm not really trans though, I'm practically cis". She also doesn't seem to take on board when I say something is upsetting to me (like sharing childhood photos in which she looks like any other young girl) and only stops after I remind her, every time.

The thing is, all of these comments and stereotypes and behaviours, if they were coming from someone who was 100% cis, with no gender-related issues at all, I would call them out as transphobic straight away, but it doesn't feel as simple as that in this situation. I don't want to discredit her experiences, but at the same time, I can't deal with these comments much more. A significant number of my friends, and as rep, people I am expected to represent at university, are trans* women, and even more would fall under a general trans* category, and regularly hearing negative things about them hurts, even if I'm personally given "exemption" from the negativity.

I've tried asking her before what she would say if someone who was cis started saying all these things, but she didn't seem to get the point because she said "I'd just say I'm sorry they felt that way" and brushed off the question. I really, really need help with how to deal with this, because I'm supposed to be getting a new house with her and some other people next academic year, and I'm not sure I can if it means another year of being told how trans* people are the worst.

[AvocadoLime]

That sounds really hard and not fun to deal with. In my experience people can take a long time to unlearn/deal with/process internalized transphobia/homophobia/biphobia/etc. It sounds like your friend may have a lot of internalized something going on with her. But you're right, if she doesn't identify as trans, then that's her call. However, no matter how she identifies, saying that 'x group of people are all rubbish' isn't ok behavior. Have you been able to talk to her and say 'Hey _________, you're my friend and I care about you but when you say all trans people are rubbish that really hurts me because I'm trans and a lot of my friends are trans too. Will you please stop saying that around me?' I'd not bring up her own identity at all, because it sounds like what's bothering you is the nasty comments and assumptions rather than how she labels herself. If she denies that she's doing anything mean, or says 'Well *you're* ok and not like those other trans people.' I think it's very fair for you to say that you can't live with her next year, because you need to be around people who don't trash your other friends. And by the way, I do think it is possible for trans people to be transphobic. Just like I think it's possible for queer people to be queerphobic. In the US there have been several politicians that were very vocal about being anti-gay, who were later ousted as being not straight themselves. It doesn't matter who somebody is, it's still not ok for them to say mean things about entire groups of people.

As for the photo thing, do you mean that it upsets you when she shows you pictures of her and she passes as a cis girl?

[oneboikyle]

That sounds a reasonable way of talking about it, thanks. I'm just worried about being dismissive, but yeah, it kinda needs dealing with.

With the photos, kind of, yeah. It's not so much the fact that she looks cis in them that bothers me, as such, because that's her deal and not really any affect on my life. It's more that I don't really have any photos of when I'm younger that I can comfortably share, because I just, don't see me in them, and it really bothers me when other people (pretty much everyone, not just her) show me theirs because it just reminds me and reinforces the fact that I can't reciprocate. It just seems that, while most of my trans* friends instinctively get that it can be a touchy subject and most of my cis friends accept that even if they don't understand it personally, we have very different experiences and they make an effort to accommodate my discomfort, she falls in the middle of that - not getting it personally, but also not really getting that our experiences were incredibly different and so what she's comfortable with, I'm really not. I dunno, to be honest, it's less of an issue than the negative comments, it's just a bit of a drain constantly reminding her that it bothers me.

[Heather]

Internalized -isms are so pervasive, and they are a big deal. They impact everyone, including the person with them. It doesn't sound to me like you have to worry about being dismissive here, to me, because it sounds like you're actually giving this the weight it deserves and taking it very seriously.

Btw, as a side note to the second part of your reply, an acquaintance of mine, a trans women in her fifties now, did this thing where she made paper puppets of herself both before and after her transition, and basically was creative with them in terms of making an adapting them so they both looked ways she felt good about and did see herself in. Not sure if you're the crafty type, but if you are, doing something like that for yourself may be a nice thing.

Too, though, it really sounds like you just need to set some limits with this person. It's okay to ask someone to chill out with things they say or do that upset you, and to ask them if they could try and at least meet you halfway. And if you're living together, that's just part and parcel of everyone making a shared living space safe and comfortable for everyone in it. I also suspect some of this should be pretty easy if she's willing to make a little effort. After all, it's not like anyone dissing others all the times tends to find that results in them feeling so great, so when people start to shift that, they usually will find they -- all by themselves -- feel a lot less miserable pretty darn fast. (I imagine the irony of her saying transgender women complain too much has not been lost on you.)

Of course, if she's not willing to even give that a shot, or can't wrap her brain around what you need with this, then yes, sounds like this isn't someone to move in with or even keep in a lot of touch with.

[groudon17]

is it her that brings up trans topics? others? yourself? if it's her that brings it up, i feel as though her words are unnecessary and rude. if it's not her that brings it up, it's possible that she might want to shy away from a trans spotlight/trans topics. when you say she does not identify as trans, does she live outside her close circle as stealth? after being on HRT and moving on with some legal changes, i have shied away a lot from trans topics and lived stealth, and the few people i talk about it to are my close friends, boyfriend, mother and doctors. i get a little agitated when people try to insert me into trans topics because of this, especially in front of other people, since i live as stealth and don't want people to know.

though she doesn't have a right to be rude about it, if it's others often bringing up the topic, she may be getting frustrated by being thrust into the conversation. if that's the case, you could try to talk to her about it (or talk to her anyway) to express that those words are hurting your feelings, or if she's bringing it up, maybe to avoid negative trans conversations around you?