Scarleteen

My parents, have recently informed me that I've been seeing too much of a particular male friend and they are worried that it may lead to my finding myself in a sexual situation with him, perhaps where he might cajole me into having sex with him.

Okay . . . anyone have a time machine? 'Cause not only have I known him since we met in the third grade . . . not "the past six months or so" as Mrs. and Mr. Oblivious believe . . . but we've had a sexual relationship for three years now.

A nice one, built on open communication, trust, and respect.

I don't want to blow things up with my parents, to point out that I've already proven that I can be proactive and he's already proven that he has my best interests close to his heart.

PS: Calling them Mrs. and Mr. Oblivious isn't mean, They really seem to be totally oblivious to just about everything that is going on in my life.

Hi Ren-eh, and welcome to the boards!

Before we advise on how to proceed with your parents here: did your parents give you a sense of why they’re concerned about this friend?

Hi KierC,

Thanks for responding to my question.

I realize how fortunate I am that *this* is what is worrying me, how to maintain a nice cordial relationship with my parents . . . not where to live or worse.

I come from a big blended family, a full brother two years older, two half-brothers five years older and a half-sister eight years older. My brother just graduated from high school and will be leaving soon . . . and my parents discovered that they had a daughter . . ..

Okay, that is melodramatic and not entirely accurate. I've benefited greatly from benign neglect since I was in Kindergarten.

My parents have just been really busy fighting off their ex-es attempts to gain custody (one is a bi-polar drama queen who self-destructs whenever there is an insufficient amount of external chaos, and the other a self-righteous Jesus-freak who decided that since God-Jr. cured him of alcoholism he would be gracious and "forgive" his ex-wife for divorcing him and committing adultery with her second husband . . . [removed violent language-Sam]) . . . middle school drama . . . high school drama . . . college applications . . . my sister (we weren't raised as "halfs") switching college majors weekly, dropping out, getting married, having two babies (at 22 and 24 after marrying at 21 so nothing too scandalous).

Sometimes I honestly think they believe that I am eight years old. Part of that is my fault. I learned early-on to blend into the background so I could do my own thing.

I don't think it has anything to do with him except he has a whY chromosome. They say that "kids are growing up too fast now-a-days" . . . while . . . I'm not joking . . . signing me up for a sex-ed class this summer (at least they opted me out of the abstinence-only "health" class the high school gave this spring).

The don't have a clue, and I don't want to be mean . . . or worse create a situation where I will have to choose . . . 'cause I won't choose them.

Renee

KierC,

I didn't want to seem opposed to sex-ed . . . just introducing the topic at 15 or 16 . . . you know, three or four years after the onset of puberty . . ..

Renee

Hi Renee,

So, the fact that your parents both actively signed you up for an actual sex ed class, and that they were willing to voice their concerns about this friend to you, suggests to me that there might be a way to talk to them about all this that doesn't explode the relationship.

Is your partner someone they know well, or at least are familiar with as a friend? And do they seem worried about you dating, period, or is it specifically that they're concerned about sex and the associated risks?

Too, beyond this conversation, it sounds like your relationship with your parents might be going through a big shift anyway with you maybe getting more of their attention than you'd been getting previously. That can cause a LOT of whiplash moments, especially if you feel they basically ignored you before and now they want to play a more active role in your life. But it also offers you a chance to build a different kind of relationship with them if you want to.

I will also say that, even if it doesn't extend to things like not having food or other basic needs met, neglect is still a really crummy thing to experience. Not that it can't have some upsides, such as learning to be independent or having more freedom than other kids do; but in an ideal world, you're gaining that independence with a safety net that it sounds like wasn't all that present for you.

Hi Sam,

I get why you deleted part of what I wrote . . . it was sarcasm (my second language), and I just meant to say that while my mom's ex was and is a first class a-hole, he's a verbal not a physical menace.

The sad fact is that if my parents were offered $1 million dollars to give the first and last names of three of my friends they'd come away penniless. I wouldn't bet $1 they'd do any better if the question was expanded to "name three people in the same grade as your daughter".

I don't think that they are generally anti-sex, just stuck in 1954, and for them LGBT . . . is a brand of German model trains.

When my sister was giving them fits once she got to college . . . got into her first choice . . . hated it . . . just showed up at home half-way through her first semester . . . flunked . . . registered at the local CC . . . only finished one semester with a 2.5 GPA (after 3.75-ish in HS) 'cause Mom literally drove her there every morning . . . got into a small local college . . . yada, yada . . . her second child a few months ago the concern was that she inherited her mom's mental issues, not that she was sexually active.

If I had to guess, I'd say that, firstly, they think "kids today are too-sexual-too-early" . . . and secondly they think that I am half-as-old as I actually am.

Oh, yeah, total whiplash. The first big showdown was that, for the first time ever, they wanted input into my course selections for next year . . . which was embarrassing (for them) since they thought I should take several classes that I'd already passed . . . and forgotten the whole "guitar - drum debacle" in 7th grade. (I'd taken private guitar lessons while in E-school . . . 'cause my brother was already there and it was cheaper to pay for a lesson than a babysitter. But the middle school did not offer guitar. The M-band teacher thought I had a really a good sense of timing, so I was given the center snare . . . the slot LITERALLY everyone else wanted.)

My partner's mother already knows about our relationship, and is supportive. I just wish I could find a way to make my parents fall out somewhere on the "supportive to not actively opposed" continuum. I'm not opposed to having a "larger" relationship with my parents . . . unless it metaphorically involves returning servicemen telling Rosie the Riveter "thanks for your service and now you can go back home."

Renee

Hi Ren_eh,

It sounds like the combination of your parents having not been involved (experiencing neglect, and the overall crummy feeling that your parents don’t know your friends’ names) mixed with their sudden investment in your choices has been really jarring to experience. As Sam said, this can definitely cause that whiplash feeling, and it can also be an opportunity to rebuild or have a different relationship with them.

Do you feel like your parents would be receptive to hearing you talk about some of these things? I hear you that they’re a bit stuck in the past on LGBTQ+ issues, and the whole “kids are growing up too fast these days” thing… but if their opting out of abstinence-only education and instead enrolling you in an actual sex ed course is any indication, they *might* be open to hearing alternative viewpoints. Too, we can help you, if you’d like, figure out what that first conversation might look like, and what some easier things to bring up first may be. How does that sound?

Hi KierC,

Thanks,

Yeah, I would very much like to figure out how to have a relationship with them . . . an actual relationship as opposed to them supplying me with a nice warm, dry, house; decent food; a (bizarrely highly ranked) school district; good doctors; and asking me questions while ignoring the answers as they move on to the next item on the agenda.

Sometimes I feel a little guilty thinking that. Because I know others who have less while I want more. (I don't mean more "stuff".)

I think that my parents are "open minded" . . . but they think "that stuff" only happens in the city. If they knew anything more about my partner than his first name, they might be surprised to find out that his mother is Anders als die Andern. They'd also be surprised to learn that I love Weimar film.

I'm stymied because the best arguments that I can think of to promote my point of view contain massive amounts of "new-to-them-data" . . . stuff likely they would have picked up on if they paid attention and if I had been willing to share. (Because I can't really talk about a partner if they haven't even noticed that I've spent a lot of time with him . . .. And I mean for the last few years.)

We haven't rushed anything, we've talked about everything, we do the research, we make plans together. Statistically, the chances of us being together when we are 80 are small. But unless one of us really changes, I don't see why we won't be.

I feel like I'm doing calculus and my parents want to describe what the "X" key on a pocket calculator does.

Renee

Hi Renee,

I’m really sorry to hear that you feel like your parents don’t really know you and aren’t even trying to get to know and understand you better. While there probably isn’t one fast simple way to somehow create an amazing relationship with them, because that would require their willingness to work on that as much as yours, starting with one open conversation could be a good starting point.

As for how the conversation should look like, first you can think of one specific thing you would like to talk about with them to prevent the new info overload you mentioned being worried about. This can be telling them about your partner, about having a sexual relationship, about how you feel like they don’t really know what’s going on in your life or something else entirely. If you don’t feel comfortable telling them about your partner right away you can start with something less daunting just to establish the "I need to talk about something with you" situation and hopefully next time it will be easier for both you and them.

Once you know what you want to share with them you can tell one or both of your parents that you have something you want to talk about with them and ask them if they can give you their undivided attention for some specific amount of time. Since it sounds like they tend not to actively listen to what you are telling them I’d start the conversation only when you feel like they will really listen to you at the moment.
If you are telling them about your partner for example, it could help to start by asking them what they already know/think about your relationship with him. That’s because parents can sometimes pick up way more (or way less) that we think and you might learn that they already noticed something and just didn’t know how to bring it up or that they don’t know anything and will need a more thorough explanation. Also, when it comes to sharing big/surprising info, a lot of people tend to respond better to it when it’s delivered in smaller bits with questions between them to make sure they are grasping what you are trying to tell them.(A short example: "You know X, right?" "You also mentioned noticing we spend a lot of time together, right?" "We do and we really like doing that and our relationship has changed in the past few years..." etc.)

You know your parents the best including how to effectively talk with them so feel free to pick anything from these tips that sounds useful to you. Does that sounds like something you would like to try?

Hi Andy,

Yes, I think setting an "appointment" to have a short conversation that they listen to would be a good idea. And obviously breaking into "bite-sized-chunks" is a good idea.

I was thinking about leading off with the fact that I have a partner ("boyfriend" would be their term . . . otherwise they may think that I've joined a law-firm ) . . . and . . . oh . . . he's the guy that I've been doing all these social things with (leaving fact that we have a sexual relationship for a later conversation . . . so I don't fry their brains).

I also think that I should be prepared for any questions about "sexual situations" or "where it's going" and I'm waffling 'cause I don't want to say too much too fast but I'm not going to lie . . .
I've never lied to them . . . although it's really easy to just not tell them things . . . 'cause they won't notice the elephant I've stashed in the backyard . . . or her pal, the rhinoceros, either.

Renee

Hi Ren_eh!

This sounds like a good plan. I do think it would be useful to have an answer prepared if they start asking about your sex life. A non-commital answer like "We've been taking it slow." might be enough if they don't push for more details. If they do, you don't have to lie. You could reassure them upfront that you both have gone about this safely, and that he hasn't pushed you into anything you don't want. You could also ask for what you want from them directly (for example, their respect and understanding).

Hi Latha,

I'm not ashamed of anything that I or we have done . . . if I were I wouldn't have done it in the first place. And I am every bit as interested in having a sexual relationship with him as he was and is with me . . . biologically he is just slightly older than I am. So, since I am female, emotionally and socially he is just slightly behind me.

I don't actually believe that . . . we both raise one another up. It's just more generalized B.S.. The same as the idea that he would be "pushing" me into "sexual situations" 'cause he is a guy.

I won't lie to them, but I do feel that I have to go slowly. Going too fast might lead to a cognitive breakdown (for them) because I don't think that they really have any idea how much of my life they missed out on while they were "busy" doing other things. I'm guessing that is why they are acting like I am eight. But, just as I won't lie to them, I won't feed their fantasy either.

Renee

Hi Renee,

It's true, there are these common stereotypes and narratives that don't actually describe your relationship with your partner at all. Hopefully, your parents will be able to look past these ideas and see your relationship as it is.

Since you've had such a large gap in comunication with your parents for so long, you might consider asking them to meet with a family therapist. A counselor might give you some support as your relationship with your parents changes.

Hi Latha,

If I were being unkind I would say that my parents don't need a counselor, they need an 'active listening' class, or perhaps a physicist to explain that 'general relativity' does not mean that time stood still for other people while they were busy doing something else.

Unfortunately, they seem to have glommed onto Berkeley's argument that physical reality does not exist independently of the mind that perceives it. So in their minds I'm eight . . . maybe ten.

But I'm not unkind.

My older sister is in her early 20s. She is married, and just had her second child. She lives in town and invited me to move into her guest room to help out for the summer. We'll see what sort of a response that evokes.

Renee

Hi Ren_eh,

You know, a decent family therapist could actually help your parents with that thing you're describing, because part of doing family therapy is looking at the dynamics between everyone involved and going "hmm, okay, this element of the dynamic is off." So they'd very likely notice that your parents aren't seeing you or hearing you in the way you need them to (and a haven't been for some time).

Ideally, that would lead to them coaching your parents on how to adjust to actually, you know, parenting you a bit more while ALSO helping all three of you navigate this recent transition to you being much more the focus of their attention. Too, a family therapist usually talks to each individual on their own from time to time, so you'd also be getting a space to be really, really candid about how this has all been for you. So, if you want to try giving that a shot, we can talk about how to find that resource and how to broach the topic with your parents.

How do you feel about your sister's offer? Does that sound like something you'd like to do?

Hi Sam,

I was not trying to suggest that a good therapist would be able to help. But kidnapping my parents and transporting them to that therapist's office is very likely a felony in Illinois (this is, of course, a joke). They simply aren't listening to me. They say things like, "we know what we are doing, we've raised five kids, four of whom went to college, and two of whom have degrees" . . . yada . . . yada.

Our discussion about the schedule for my upcoming semester was both indicative of the problem and quite illuminating. They had ZERO idea what classes I'd already taken . . . or which track I was in . . . and advised that I not take classes from teachers whom I had already received As from. (Because my older brother, a very extroverted class clown, did not get along with them.)

I could find a therapist. But I am at a loss for how I could possibly convince these two "experts" on child rearing that they should talk to one.

I accepted my sister's offer. My parents couldn't really say no . . . that would have the effect of denying two of their grand children. At one point in my discussion with my mom I paused for effect and then acted as if an idea had just occurred to me . . ..

I very politely told her that I did not want to "deprive her" of the "opportunity" to go over to her oldest daughter's house "every morning" and that if she wanted to do it . . . or split the time . . . I would be willing to decline or only partially accept.

She did not bite.

Renee

Hi there, Renee

I think it can be really alienating when people who are supposed to know and love you don't see you for who you are at all. Just in case you need to hear this, it is okay to feel angry and frustrated with your parents for how they've been treating you. Sarcasm and jokes are well and good, but it isn't unkind to express that you've been hurt. As Sam said, neglect really is a crummy experience.

Regarding that conversation with your parents about your schedule: were you able to tell them that you've already taken classes with those teachers and that you've gotten good grades (congratulations, by the way!)? How did that conversation go?

Let's consider a hypothetical situation for a moment. What would happen if you just laid everything out for them? Stated the problem plainly, even if you can't get into all the details: There is a large gap in communication and understanding between you and your parents that they are not seeing. You want to see a family therapist together to work through this, and it is very important for your relationship going forward that they take you seriously. Do you think this would work?

Sam asked about how you feel about your sister's offer, but you've only said that you accepted it, and that your parents could not say no. I don't mean to push, but I'm curious- how do you feel about staying with your sister?

And speaking of your siblings, have you ever spoken to any of them about your relationship with your parents? Would you feel comfortable doing so? If they understand you, they could help you speak to your parents.

Hi Latha,

We are all formed by the experiences that we've "survived" so I can somewhat understand my parents' reluctance to bend or modify their behavior. They both had turmoil in previous marriages with spouses whom I and all of my siblings could see as being immature and emotionally and socially aggressive. People who tried to play the system and one another against my parents to gain what they wanted.

I have always had a good relationship with my siblings. The three oldest -- who are out from under Mom and Dad's wings (the brother who just graduated high school is staying out of it since he is going to need their support for college) -- have all had conversations with our parents supporting me.

My siblings are all who they are, and they are handling the situation in their way, not in my way. Meaning that I think that a lot of what is being said, while true, is putting our parents on their back feet and eliciting a defensive response.

All of my siblings did things at my age, or at an age older than I am, that required my parents to intervene. But unlike my oldest sister, whom my parents will say "made the most mistakes", my loyalties were not split and I had four examples to watch closely and learn from. One thing that all of this is doing is making our relationship a lot stronger.

At first, I thought it was quite unfair that I was forced to choose between not having a social life this summer, or working a "job" to pay for my own room and board so that I could see my friends and especially my boyfriend when I was "off duty". But actually doing it, I can take my niece (she doesn't have me caring for the baby) out to the park, or around the neighborhood, with my friends so it's not like I'm in the kitchen flipping burgers at a drive-in.

I also get to see my boyfriend around a toddler and will be able to see if he (or I for that matter) . . . might . . .. Might . . . be interested in making one after we both graduate from college.

My parents have apparently mistaken the fact that I was quietly in the background, learning from my siblings experience to mean that I haven't progressed to the point in my life where I would really mess things up. They think that I am functionally younger than I am. I know the opposite is true. Because while they say that we all learn from experience and the only way to get experience is to make mistakes, I know that I've avoided 1,000 mistakes because I had a up close and personal view of them making mistakes that I might have made had I not known what to look for in the same situation.

I don't look for the "easy teachers" who oversee a circus, I choose the serious ones who get their students into honors and AP classes and then write them great letters of recommendation. If I graduate on time (graduating early is a viable option too) I'll have a year of college credits in my pocket . . . credits that cost me or my parents 10% of what they would have normally cost.

Right now, I'm thinking that maybe I should just spend the Summer here. That will prove that I can do all the things that my parents haven't noticed that I'm capable of. Maybe the sting of having four of their kids disagree with them will abate and we can have a serious conversation about how things will change . . . if . . .. If I move back in the Fall.

Renee

I do think you have a very clear-eyed picture in some ways of what's likely happening with your parents, and of the fact that when you're the youngest sibling, you do have the ability to observe what older siblings do and see how things play out for them, including how your parents react to them. And it does sound like staying with your sister this summer will offer you a sort of trial run of how things are living outside of your parents home, which can be useful decision making going forward.

You know, on the topic of mistakes, do you have a sense of what you'd do if you did make a mistake, or otherwise land in a situation where ideally an adult would bail you out? I ask because, as you pointed out, we all make mistakes, even when we're careful. And something that makes those mistakes easier to bounce back from is having supports.

Hi Sam,

"Bad things" can happen to people through absolutely no fault of their own. We can all suffer from so-called "Acts of God", criminal behavior, other people's carelessness, random accidents, disease, terrorism, shortages, and the affirmative acts of police or other officials who believe that they are above the law.

While my definition of what is and is not within an individuals ability to control may not be exactly the same as my parents' definition, my observations lead me to conclude that were they to believe that I was suffering through no fault of my own they would completely support me in what ever way they could.

And I believe that as individuals we can significantly decrease the odds of "bad things" happening if we are responsible. Paying attention to weather forecasts, heeding the advice of the CDC-P, being situationally aware and avoiding high crime or inherently dangerous areas and behaviors, intelligently managing ones assets and income, and fighting for one's rights in a courtroom rather than on the street. (This is not an exclusive list.)

I've seen my parents hesitate . . .. Do everything they could to support my older siblings' basic needs . . . but not "wave a magic wand" to make a problem that their child could . . . but naturally did not want to . . . "go away".

I can accept that. It's better than being 35 and asking "Mommy" what to do because you just got laid off and have a car payment due in four days.

And as I have intimated, my parents have a hard time putting themselves in anyone else's shoes. My oldest sister probably never really wanted to go to college. She certainly didn't have any idea what to do when she got there. So she partied, and changed majors, and got low scores, and complained about the curriculum . . . and the professors, and changed schools, and skipped a semester, and met a guy she meshed with, and dropped out and started a family.

But to her, creating the family she didn't have or wasn't able to enjoy growing up because her bi-polar, self-medicating mother kept going through rehab so she could repeatedly legally challenge her mentally, emotionally, and financially stable father's custody meant so much more than a degree or even a diploma.

I'm different . . . probably luckier . . . I won't repeat her mistakes or the mistakes of my older brothers, the "worst" of which has had a difficult time going from being the guy whose name is on little plaques in our high school's hallway, gym, and pool, to choosing a college based on a scholarship, to being a JV starter and Varsity utility player, to getting a "real" job with a degree he chose because it did not interfere with his unrealized dreams.

Myself and my siblings are very close and we do act to support one another.

I think back to some of those corny old movies where a drill sergeant is hard on everyone so that they hate him and build cohesion through hating him. I don't think that my parents ever set out to be "hard-asses" who made five kids, three of whom aren't biologically related to one another, a "cohesive group". It's just sort of a "happy by-product" of them being so busy.

And I don't think any of us hate them. Personally, I just wish they'd actually listen to me.

Renee

Hi Renee,

You're right. Bad things can happen to people through no fault of their own, but there are things we can do to minimize those chances and mitigate any negative effects. I'm glad you feel confident in your parents support, at least in some situations.

And I don't think any of us hate them. Personally, I just wish they'd actually listen to me.

This is completely justified on your part.

I'm wondering, how can we best help you now? Do you have a good sense of what your next steps will be?

Hi Latha,

I think that my best course of action is to stay with my sister for the remainder of the Summer and see if the fact that I am capable of moving out and thriving clues my parents into the reality of the situation.

I won't go back to being a "dependent" hanging on their ill-informed decisions that are based on others and statistical averages. I have made a series of good decisions to get to the place that I am at. I have friends, a social existence, and TWO equally viable plans for my future. Either I graduate "on time" in two years with a year of college credits, or I will rearrange my schedule to graduate a year early without ever going back to their house.

I do appreciate the fact that you are here and offering to help. Just having an educated independent third-party to bounce ideas off of is of great service. But while I don't doubt that my parents love me and want the best (as they see it) for me, they won't listen to me. They won't listen to others either. Maybe when faced with the reality . . . that I'd rather couch surf than be a serf . . . they will become "enlightened" . . ..

But, I would not advise you to bet on that.

Renee

I'm so glad you have the support of your older sister, Renee. I think it's great that you can stay with her so you can have some autonomy and independence, whether it influences your parents behaviour or not.