Scarleteen

Hi, Scarleteen Forums,

So, I have heard about this online forum community when I was 14. So to start on with my story, my fetish started in high school when I was a sophomore and was waiting at a bus stop with my classmate from engineering class Justin. Nearby, I saw his sister Jasmine, a senior at the time, and wearing a solid green short sleeve polo, lime green skinny jeans from Hollister (Note: I was able to easily figure out Jasmine was wearing Hollister women's jeans by seeing the notable back pocket stitching patterns on the pockets called ”arcuates”. Here is what I am referring to. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/62/da/ac/62da ... db805d.jpg), and black high top Converse shoes. The combination, especially Jasmine's Converse shoes turned me on. Shortly after, I would get sexually aroused whenever I see a relatively attractive woman wear Converse shoes. I was glad yet confused to how to make sense of my newfound fetish.

I would secretly pursue my fetish in private by searching for pictures of young women and teen girls (I was 17 at the time I was doing this, so nothing illegal) wearing Converse shoes. Let me elaborate why I personally, find Converse shoes arousing and exotic on women. For me, Converse shoes evoke a casual, fun, youthful, and rebellious vibe that I enjoy seeing in a woman. I know there is this idea or stereotype that some women enjoy being into “bad boys”, and I think I might have a thing for women who are or at least appear to give off the “bad girl” vibe, and in my view, nothing gives off that rebellious bad girl vibe more than seeing a pretty chick wearing a pair of chucks. Furthermore, I would even get horny to the point where I would jerk off while lustfully looking at pictures of attractive women wearing Converse shoes on my smartphone's screen. Many years later when I was 23, I vented about my fetish for Converse shoes on this “Newbie Users” section of this supposedly well-known and sex-positive online forum called FetLife and only one person, a moderator I presume responded to my thread posting a meme about how men with shoe/feet fetishes tend to be uh hem... rather creepy to be around, and that most women in Westernized countries are not interested in assisting a man who is a stranger to them fulfill a foot fetish or shoe fetish fantasy.

Now, I want to make it clear that I completely respect the concept of affirmative consent and the importance of not coming across to potential partners as creepy or coercive. But that meme that the moderator from FetLife sent really made me feel insecure about my sexual desires. As a straight man, if I see an attractive young woman wearing Converse, I would never approach her in a creepy, discomforting, or unusual way in a public setting as that is socially unacceptable and is also a violation of the Golden Rule (Treat others as you would like them to treat oneself). Also, when it came to researching on masturbation, I found this online mental health youth ministry called [removed] that strongly discourages people from masturbating due to them claiming that it may be potentially addictive from activating the pleasure-reward centers of the brain (the dopaminergic mesolimbic and mesocortial pathways of the nervous system). That said, it is important to note that [removed] is a theologically conservative Protestant Christian (the Evangelical kind) ministry, so they may have a “biblical literalist” bias when it comes to sensitive cultural issues.

I don't want to get addicted to masturbation or sexual fantasies where it interferes with my work and personal lives. I would really appreciate insight about these questions.

1. From a sex-positive perspective, is it morally acceptable for me to have this particular shoe fetish?
2. Is it OK for me to enjoy my fetish (within moderation)?
3. Should I worry about my would be masturbation habit going out of hand due to pursuing my fetish?

Hi dazzlerazzle,

It wasn't great that a moderator on that other site decided that the way to respond to you was with a very unhelpful generalization! It sounds like you've been getting some conflicting and, frankly, inaccurate messages about sexual preferences and masturbation, so let's see if we can untangle some of those.

First, a word on terminology: a fetish refers specifically to an object that someone needs in order to feel sexual gratification. If they can feel it without it--even if they really, really, prefer that object be present--then it's sexual preference rather than a fetish.

All that being said, there's nothing inherently wrong with finding someone wearing a particular shoe to be arousing. What we do, and don't, find arousing is incredibly varied and personal. There's also nothing wrong with engaging with this interest, either during masturbation or with a consenting partner. After all, if you enjoy seeing a partner in those shoes, and they either enjoy or are happy to wear them because you like it, then there's no harm in that, you know?

As far as what you learned at that hotline, you can go ahead and toss all that information out, because it is garbage. It's just the latest iteration of an old phenomenon where people who are morally opposed to masturbation make up reasons why it's bad for your health to masturbate to try and scare people away from the most common human sexual behavior. Yes, masturbation activates a pleasure response. So does hugging, playing with your pet, eating a food you love, and a whole host of other activities we engage in; masturbation is no more addictive than any of them. I actually talk about that in more detail in this piece, if you're curious: I'm an abuse survivor, and I'm worried about sexual addiction.

Now, there can be instances where masturbation becomes a compulsion--a person is doing it without any real desire and more out of feeling that they have to--that can be an issue. And if someone is masturbating so much that they're routinely passing up on school, work, hanging out with friends, etc to masturbate, then that's an issue as well. But someone enjoying masturbation a lot, or doing it often? Not a cause for concern.

Sam W wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:27 am Hi dazzlerazzle,

It wasn't great that a moderator on that other site decided that the way to respond to you was with a very unhelpful generalization! It sounds like you've been getting some conflicting and, frankly, inaccurate messages about sexual preferences and masturbation, so let's see if we can untangle some of those.

First, a word on terminology: a fetish refers specifically to an object that someone needs in order to feel sexual gratification. If they can feel it without it--even if they really, really, prefer that object be present--then it's sexual preference rather than a fetish.

All that being said, there's nothing inherently wrong with finding someone wearing a particular shoe to be arousing. What we do, and don't, find arousing is incredibly varied and personal. There's also nothing wrong with engaging with this interest, either during masturbation or with a consenting partner. After all, if you enjoy seeing a partner in those shoes, and they either enjoy or are happy to wear them because you like it, then there's no harm in that, you know?

As far as what you learned at that hotline, you can go ahead and toss all that information out, because it is garbage. It's just the latest iteration of an old phenomenon where people who are morally opposed to masturbation make up reasons why it's bad for your health to masturbate to try and scare people away from the most common human sexual behavior. Yes, masturbation activates a pleasure response. So does hugging, playing with your pet, eating a food you love, and a whole host of other activities we engage in; masturbation is no more addictive than any of them. I actually talk about that in more detail in this piece, if you're curious: I'm an abuse survivor, and I'm worried about sexual addiction.

Now, there can be instances where masturbation becomes a compulsion--a person is doing it without any real desire and more out of feeling that they have to--that can be an issue. And if someone is masturbating so much that they're routinely passing up on school, work, hanging out with friends, etc. to masturbate, then that's an issue as well. But someone enjoying masturbation a lot, or doing it often? Not a cause for concern.

Thanks, Sam, I really appreciate your helpful response. I actually tried asking for advice and support from another well-known sex-positive online forum community called “r/sex” on Reddit.com https://new.reddit.com/r/sex, but unfortunately, I also encountered moderators there that were unhelpful and accused me of “secretly promoting anti-masturbation, sex-negative, and purity-culture propaganda disguised as a seemingly friendly post”. I understand that these online forums can be a heavy toll for moderators, since they are giving up their free time to help an online community without monetary compensation in most cases. In addition, the moderators of the subreddit “r/sex” may have to deal with online trolls, creeps, and people who have an ulterior agenda behind their messages. However, it is disheartening when these communities that are supposed to be helpful to new users gate-keep and erroneously accuse new users of “stirring the pot” or “being creepy” without sufficient evidence.

Anywho, I really like the idea of expressing my sexual feelings by having these fantasies of attractive “rebellious looking” women wearing Converse shoes. With regard to concerns of addiction to masturbation, to be honest I masturbate two to four times a month, and while I occasionally view porn that really turns me on, my masturbation and porn habits have never caused me to perform poorly in my school, work, social, and personal lives nor develop an unrealistic nor distorted view of women, sex, and intimate relationships, to the best of my knowledge. While I have heard and acknowledged online that there are some men and women who develop compulsive tendencies towards their sexuality, that has never been the case for my sexual life, despite my occasional masturbation and occasional porn viewing habits. I do know that hypersexuality and compulsive sexual tendencies are legitimate medical conditions that some people experience, again I reiterate my sexual habits were never that frequent nor extreme based off my observations and memory of my sexual thoughts, behaviors, and actions.

Sam, I bet as with many non-techies, you probably have heard at least ten times by now this technology buzzword called AI or artificial intelligence. Since you are probably heard this term ad infinitum, you don't need me to give a definition or example. However, I heard that AI chatbots or LLMs can be used to engage in role-play chats, even sexually suggestive or explicit chats (not all chatbots permit generating responses that are sexually explicit or even suggestive in nature, due to concerns from their developers) and was wondering if it is fine to use an AI chatbot or LLM that permits that kind of responses to help fulfill my shoe-fetish fantasy through text-based chat. While that moderator from FetLife was kinda hurtful, albeit unintentionally, their response does make some sense in regard to Westernized countries like America (where I am from). Most women in my country, even the most sex-positive, left-leaning, open-minded, LGBTQ+ affirming women, are probably not interested in assisting a man they do not know well to fulfill a “shoe fetish”. I know now that from the perspective of sex educators, sexologists, and sex therapists, my sexual interest does not meet the criteria of a “fetish” as it is used in sex education or sex therapy. I call it a “fetish” even though it may not be the right word is because I used to be, and many others in America are still illiterate when it comes to human sexuality education, and “fetish” is the first word that comes across the minds of most sex illiterate people who have this kinda of interest (assuming the person even has a basic idea of what a fetish is).

But my point is that it is much easier relegating the task of a kinky roleplay fantasy chat to an AI chatbot or LLM than it is to find a person who is willing to engage in that kind of chat and stay motivated to continue the chat. I tried finding women online through apps like Chatous, and Kik to do a kinky roleplay, but I almost always get horny men who expect a woman to share nude pictures (not that I am judging or shaming them if they are into doing that with consenting women). It's much easier to get a chatbot to do that, rather than finding a person willing to take the time, energy, and mental skill to do a roleplay chat.

I know that a person having a sexually suggestive or explicit roelplay chat with an AI chatbot or LLM has become a touchy topic (do a web search for “AI girlfriends” to see what I am talking about), because it introduced a philosophical issue of what value is there to the beauty of intimate relationships between two consenting humans when AI chatbots or LLMs can make the need of a human companionship redundant? Some argue that the rise of LLMs and AI systems may cause people to pursue less human relationships rather than more. Some even worry about the possibility in the not too distant future that humans might have intimate relationships with robots and AI systems as they would with another human normally. My interesting argument to make is that if someone is LGBTQ+ affirming, or has no moral qualms with same-sex intimate relationships, then I would wager that person should also have no issue with a mentally competent person having an intimate relationship with an AI-system or robot.

Again Sam, thank you for your kind-hearted and informed response, and I look forward to hopefully more responses to you.

Hey dazzlerazzle!

I have to say, I can see why the reddit mods were suspicious as the organisation you described is spreading misinformation. We would probably do similar if deletion was our only moderation tool here. Giving their name could be seen as a way to drive traffic toward them, something I also want us to avoid. I have removed their name from your original post for you.

On your latest post:

Whether it's okay to be intimate with a conscious machine is thankfully still a century away by now... We may have novel software which could aid with role-play, essentially helping you write your own smut, but the super weird stuff is a ways off.

In the meantime let's not make potentially insulting comparisons between roles of real people in our lives, or even the roles of hypothetical future robo-people with the entirely self-serving dynamics present in our fantasies or constructed and performed within sexual entertainment or sexual technologies.

If my diet of Sci-fi TV & literature over the past few years has taught me anything it's that public acceptance of newfangled relationships, of themselves, would be a much smaller challenge to overcome compared to the many many ways that human greed and exploitation would play out in those futures. The moral is almost always that we should treat eachother, beings we don't understand, and things whose value we cannot know, with respect and care, regardless.

Regarding respect, let's also avoid calling women "chicks" or whatnot!

Anyway, is there some part of this in particular which you are struggling with or are you currently just exploring how you feel about all of it?

Hi dazzlerazzle!

I have some thoughts on what you said about LLMs and AI (specifically around them potentially challenging the value of intimate relationships), and I thought I’d share them here in case you find them interesting:

I think something important to acknowledge about intimacy is that there are an enormous amount of ways to be intimate, that are and are not sexual (and everything in between). While an LLM or AI is able to provide erotic material for fantasy, it probably will never be able to do other aspects of intimacy, such as vulnerability, physical touch, and genuine affection. It also can’t do activism, make friends, cook food, take care of someone sick, or do any of the other myriad mutually beneficial things people in intimate relationships do.
Because of these constraints, I think human to human (I don’t use this term with the intent of excluding relationships with more then 2 people) intimacy will never be significantly affected by LLMs and AI, because (as much as I generally dislike this concept) it just isn’t efficient.
I think an additional thing to consider when thinking about sex and AI/LLMs is that (from my understanding of other’s experiences) a partner(s) pleasure can be very important to a person’s own pleasure. While an LLM/AI could simulate a partner’s pleasure, it can’t actually experience it, and I imagine that this would discourage a lot of people. Certainly not all, including people who significantly enjoy their partners pleasure but also enjoy the AI in itself, but I think a meaningful percentage of people.
I think it’s also important t

(I accidentally submitted the above post before finishing it, my post continues here.)

I think it’s also important to consider that AI and LLMs have biases and prejudices from their learning materials. While all people have biases and prejudices, a person can be consciously aware of them and work to reduce them and recognize their origins, whereas as an AI can only be improved by the improvement of training material — a process that is the subject to the biases and (likely at least partially money based) aims of the programmers and their company. This will inherently impact the safety and comfort of those who use the AI/LLM, and potentially mean that only those who sufficiently fit into the LLM/AIs idea of appropriate sexuality can enjoy it.

I hope you find this interesting, you brought up a very interesting question and I thought that I could add some ideas.

- AQ

PS: I think I should add that I don’t think all bad or problematic about LLMs/AI for sexuality: I think that could also be ways for people to explore sexuality, including fantasies that other people aren’t interested in, and I don’t want to dismiss that.