Scarleteen

Hey this is my first post on here (but I've been reading as a guest user for a while), and while I have read the FAQs and that stuff I may make some "oopsies" so if anything's off just LMK. Onto the actual question/topic:
Basically, I am a 17 year old very out lesbian (got outed at school and just kinda went along with it) and I am out to my parents, on social media, at school and the like. Most of my friends are queer in some way (sorry if that word seems wrong to use!), and I try to surround myself with queer positivity, like music artists, books and shows. I have a younger friend, aged 15, who I have been close with for about a year, who seems to be struggling a lot with her sexuality. She has a lot of internalised homophobia, and is aware of this but seems unwilling to actually work on it, instead saying it's normal in her culture. It feels like I'm constantly trying to like help her and remind her that I'm here for her, but she doesn't seem to hear any of it, and instead will say things like "I don't want to be a lesbian it's so gross" to me knowing that I am a lesbian, and will make fun of other queer people. She is not a bad person at all, she can be very thoughtful and caring, and she's one of the first actual friends I've had (I grew up undiagnosed autistic until I was 14), but I am not sure how to cope with it. I try and set boundaries, but it is a fairly new concept for me, and they never seem to stick - people cross them and I accidentally allow them. We have another friend, who's 16, that I met through her who also goes to our school, who is kinda shitty to me - she used to frequently call me slurs that I wasn't comfortable with even when I asked her to stop, made fun of my weight often, would agree to plans that I was paying for like a performance and then cancel last minute for no reason, and would make up rumours about me doing inappropriate things with female teachers because I get really high grades and I love learning at school. My younger friend, the 15 year old one, has refused to even say anything to the other one, instead just saying she's "just autistic" and that it is a joke.

This is starting to really hurt me, and I am trying to help the younger friend as much as I can but I do recognise there's some point where it has to stop. The problem is - I am her main support system, as she isn't close with her family and comes from a very religious (not a bad thing, but they are homophobic and justify it using religion) family, and I am one of 2 queer friends she has, but the other is never online to help her. I want to help her, but I am wondering what's the point that I stop, and what do I do instead for her? She has a therapist, but seems unwilling to work on this - it's none of my business, but she frequently tells me things that go on in her therapy which makes me somewhat uncomfortable, and I just need it to stop but also remain friends with her.

I never used to struggle with internalised homophobia (that's the closest word I can find for what I am feeling), but recently (as in within the last year from about 2023 - 2024) it has been popping up. I am sorta young and rather awkward in my mannerisms, and the only lesbian at my school which I faced bullying and rude comments about, and it has kind of like started to happen, in that I feel really ashamed and wrong (like gross in a way, even though I know lesbianism isnt super gross idk) about my sexuality, and worry about how it affects people arround me. I consume a lot of queer media, which I have seen recommended on Scarleteen, and spend a lot of time alone in my own company, but I am unsure of how to feel comfortable with myself.

I am also kind of known as someone that is sexually knowledgeable, as in I have had lesbian sex (it wasn't necessarily consensual, but it happened IG) and have some level of sex ed just through research, which makes the young friend feel like she can come to me for sexual knowledge. She will sometimes ask me stuff about men, which I feel bad because I really can't answer that or help her just because I know nothing of men, and she keeps trying to start conversations about masturbation, which I am aware isn't like wrong, but still makes me uncomfortable because we have an age difference of about 2 and 3/4 years and I don't want to like hurt her in any way, but I want her to feel comfortable in her sexuality as well. She sometimes is persistent about it, and I really dislike talking about my personal sexual experiences with people I know - something about it makes me uncomfortable, but she just doesn't seem to want to stop. What do I do, while keeping my own boundaries but helping her in that area??

Sorry about the long post and the complex-ish questions.

Hi GarfieldIsCool,

I'm glad you felt comfortable posting on the boards after being around Scarleteen for awhile!

With this situation with your younger friend, as cliche as it may sound I think we're very much at the point of "put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others." What I mean by that is that, at a certain point, in order to be there for others, we have to take care of ourselves, or we're going to end up at a point where we can't care for ourselves or anyone else. That's extra true in an instance like this, where the person you're trying to support is doing things that make that a bit more challenging. More to the point, we each have a right to go through the world without feeling like our boundaries are being constantly disregarded, even if the people doing the disregarding need support in their own right.

Since you're still at a point where you're learning to set and hold boundaries in general, can you tell me a bit about how your attempts to set boundaries with her have gone in the past? What did you do, and how did she respond?

With the friend who is 16, is she still targeting you with that kind of bullying? Were I talking to your younger friend, I'd remind her that someone being autistic isn't the same as choosing to be cruel to someone else, nor is being neurodivergent something that makes you incapable of hearing a friend when they say "hey, that's a really crummy way to treat me, please stop."

I'm sorry to hear that the bullying at school has been persistent enough that it's causing you to internalize the negative stuff people are saying. You mention that a lot of the shame and worry is tied to, "worry about how it affects people around me." Can you tell me a little more about that? Too, if you want to talk about what happened with the person on IG, that's something we can also offer support around.

Hi Sam,
Thank you so much for your reply + your advice.

I do see what you are saying with the oxygen mask metaphor, though I do worry about her. I may take a step back, and encourage her to talk to others or take what I say and do with it what she wants - as in let her hear me even if she doesn't like HEAR me you know? Still feels really bad to do, as in I want to support her, but I think I'll just chill it off for myself a bit.

In response to your questions about boundaries/experiences in the past: With being out as gay, I have people say stupid shit, and one of these things was accusing me of being a "pedophile" and taking advantage of my younger friend. I feel as if I have to be super careful in my interactions with her, because I know I am not a pedophile but want to make sure others can see that too. She kinda enjoyed the rumours, i don't know if thats the right word, but she found them really funny and would repeatedly call me like "noncey" (UK slang for a pedo) and then laugh when I would kind of get upset. I am kind of seen as a person who will just be chill with a lot, and I think that is part of the problem, but when I did try she agreed, and managed for about a week and then started up again. I tried to set them again, but she just kind of said it was just a joke, and made me feel stupid. Like I have also set boundaries because she told her highly homophobic parents that I was queer, which made me feel kind of unsafe. She has limited social skills because she grew up very isolated and alone, and I do get that, but when I tried to kind of say "Dude that's not cool and while I get they're your parents, they still can be weird to me about it", she just kind of said oops and then said it wasn't as big a deal as I was making it. Like the other 16 year old friend, who was making up rumours about my sexuality, also told her parents I'm gay, but I became more of a joke in their family and they started encouraging her to say I did stuff with this specific female teacher who everyone knew I was close to (it was mainly because I faced sexual harrassment from a boy at school and she advocated with me with admin and was the person I reported it to, this was separate from the other non consesual stuff though), and it just seems that I am a bit of a joke to people.

With the 16 year old one, I kind of have dropped her. She's still close with the younger friend, but I had a big falling out with her after she made shitty transphobic comments about one of my role models Dylan Mulvaney. When it was about me, I felt less ok dropping her especially because no one really seemed to care, but seeing her say shit about another person made me realise how not OK it is. She still is there but less so in 1-1 interactions, and my young friend knows I despise this girl, even if she doesn't get why.

With worrying how it affects those around me, I mentioned earlier about the rumour about me and the younger friend's like relationship, and while she is seen as kind of untouchable from a combo of RBF and being kind of a young savant, I still worry how it affected her, and what could've happened if her parents found it (which may have been unsafe for her). People who are friends with me seem to often face shit because I am gay and it's assumed that they must be too, even if this may not be the case in other instances, and I also just want all my friends to be safe but know that being associated with me makes it hard.

With the sexual assault (that's what it was), it wasn't on IG, that was me saying it happened "I guess" - I have a tendency to use loads of slang which looks weird, apologies. I do have like support for it, I never got to legally report it - I was scared of dealing with police, even if that seems unreasonable IDK. It was between two girls, and I did get groomed for 2 years (She knew me since I was 11 and she was about 14 I think, and it happened when she was 17 and I 13), and barely anyone knows about it because it feels wrong to talk about - I don't want to like feed into queer stereotypes about pedos and shit, and she fully got away with it and did it to others too but I think I was her last. I didn't tell anyone until a few weeks later, and it was a weird situation which would have been complicated to like address or do anything about. It was about 3 years ago, and it does still affect my view of like sex and all that stuff, even if I try not to show it, but I am trying to like put it behind me.

- Garfield (Weird online name but I freakin love Garfield sooo)

Hi Garfield, (It is a great name!)

Given everything you've said about your environment so far, I'm not surprised you've started feeling shame around your sexuality. You shouldn't have to deal with any of this! It sucks that your friend are at risk of being treated poorly just because they are associated with you. Try to remember that none of that is your fault. You haven't done anything wrong, and you can't control the actions of homophobic people.

I don't think your fear of dealing with the police was unreasonable. I don't like to discourage reporting, but we can acknowledge that filing a case and dealing with the police is difficult at the best of times. And that is before we consider your environment and the biases the police might have about gay people.

I understand your reservations about taking a step back from supporting your younger friend (YF)- you value your relationship with her, and it sounds like you want to be a good role model. Here is the thing, I think it might actually help her if you held good boundaries with her. Learning to set and respect boundaries is an essential social skill that she will need throughout life. She also needs to internalize the fact that her words and actions can hurt people, so she has to be careful.

Captain Awkward has good advice about boundaries that I think might be helpful here: Boundaries work best when direct, specific requests are backed up by consistent actions (consequences) when and if those limits are not respected.’ The consequence can just be leaving the conversation if she continues to say or do hurtful things after you've asked her to stop, but it has to exist, and you need to use it every time she pushes your limits. If you want, you could also plan ahead to give yourself a reason to leave uncomfortable situations with YF or the 16-year-old you mentioned.

Let me touch on something from your first post: You don’t have to discuss your personal sexual experiences to create an environment where YF can feel comfortable with her sexuality. Think about it- sex educators don’t spend a lot of time talking about their sex lives. Sometimes personal anecdotes can be useful, but they certainly are not necessary. If YF asks you questions that you want to answer, try to give her general information.

How does this sound?

Hi Latha!
Thank you so much for your advice.

With my YF, she is away on holiday right now so luckily I have had a bit of a 'respite' to just think about my ideas for boundaries and what makes me comfortable, so once she is back I will try to really apply those boundaries. YF isn't the one saying the mean things, it was another friend, who has since kind of been dropped (we had a massive falling out because she was transphobic and called me a sensitive snowflake, which was... distasteful to say the least).

Usually in uncomfortable situations, I just say that I need the bathroom or feel ill so I can get out, but I feel like that does kind of not show how it makes me feel. I may just stick to that for now though as it's easiest.

In terms of your last paragraph, she will ask me really specific sexual questions about my own experiences, so i try to be vague without like seeming standoffish, but I may just give her resources (like this site) and call it a day.

TYSM!!

Hi GarfieldIsCool,

I think answering all of YF's questions about sex with redirections to places like us is an excellent idea! Too, to echo something Latha said, I'm someone who talks about sex for a living, and my willingness to discuss my personal sex life with people is fairly low (and is non-existent for anyone who's shown they can't be trusted with sensitive information).

As for ending situations where a boundary has been crossed, leaving for the bathroom is a good option, especially if what you need in that moment is just to be out of the interaction. I'd say that in moments where you do want to name that you're leaving the interaction because of a crossed boundary, that's a time for a pretty direct statement and an indication that you're not going to argue with her about this, you're just going to leave. I think some of the advice in these two columns from Captain Awkward have some useful language and approaches for this: https://captainawkward.com/2013/01/02/4 ... this-blog/ , https://captainawkward.com/2016/11/12/9 ... ry-advice/

Can I ask what your friend group is like outside of this person? Do you generally feel supported and respected by them? And are there other queer or trans folks in that group?

Hi Sam W,
So basically there are only 4 of us total in the "friend group", which is YF, the 16 year old (who has kinda basically become not my friend, as she is shitty), and then 1 more who is also a lesbian. The other lesbian goes to a different school, though since we finished secondary school we're all off to different sixth forms anyway. I don't feel like I am really respected, and I do prefer to spend a lot of time alone - I have always had trouble making friends (I'm autistic and people just find me unsettling), and I have a lot of my own hobbies, though I am really lonely - I've never been in a relationship, and no one seems to really like me except the person that assaulted me, and even then it wasn't that she actually liked me LOL.
I don't really have much of a support system or anyone, I sorta manage on my own with an occasional therapy sessions.
- Garfield

Hi GarfieldIsCool,

I'm sorry to hear you don't have much of a support system; that can really make it so much harder to deal with things like harassment at school. Too, if you've had a lot of crummy experiences not feeling respected by friends or feeling like trying to make friends only caused people to react poorly to you, I totally get how that could lead you to feeling like it's best to keep to your own company.

I do think that it might be worth it to try and form a few connections with other queer people, so that you feel a bit less isolated and alone, and as a counterpoint to the fact that your school isn't really a safe or welcoming environment. Do you want to talk a bit about how that process might look? Too, if you're moving on to another school next year, would it help to have some resources on what your rights are as a student, including as a queer student, so that if people harass you, you have a sense of what you could ask the school to do to intervene?

Hi Sam,
Sorry for my late reply (have been ill so am sleeping it off).
TBH I've always been a bit of a loner even when I was young, I think it was too much reading and a lack of proper social skills that started it LOL!
I don't really know how to like find queer people. I do live in London, but most of the events and groups seem to be 18+ and there's not much near me tbh.
I would like the resources for like rights as a queer student, would maybe be best if they applied to the UK (sorry if this is an unnecessary ask), but am hopeful for the next school. It is a posh private school in a very posh area of London, but it seemed nice when I visited and sixth form is a more chill environment so I have that at least.
Also TYSM for all your advice so far and your unjudgemental responses, I really appreciate the work you do.
- Garfield

No worries, I hope you're feeling better! And thank you for the kind words!

I hear you on being a kid who had an easier time with books than people, that was me too. With queer spaces in the area, it looks like there are a few options you could start. The London LGBT Center seems to be a big hub, though the location might not be the easiest depending on where in the city you are. I actually find it's helpful to follow LGBT centers near me on Instagram; that's often an easier way of keeping up on what they're doing, including if there are events you really want to go to or things happening closer to you. Too, even if you can't make it to that center, someone there could probably help you figure out what groups and spaces ARE accessible to you, since they likely have resources that act as a directory of services in the London area.

You could also try something that's a remote group if that's more your speed: https://www.lgbthero.org.uk/Pages/Category/hangouts. Too, speaking of remote, you're also IN a queer space and community by participating on the boards here!

As for the student rights component, I'd use Stonewall UK as a starting place: https://www.stonewall.org.uk/schools-colleges. And I'm with you; I really hope that going forward your new school is a much more safe and welcoming environment for you!