Difficulty moving past break-up anger

[Bonthrop]

Hi all,

I'm here again for some rad, objective Scarleteen advice! I posted on the old boards (http://www.scarleteen.com/forum/ultimat ... 12109.html) nearly a year ago seeking help with a difficult relationship. I left him, after about seven years of on-off-ness, in April of last year and it was a very good decision.

Despite my life improving by miles since, I've recently found myself tangled in obsessive angry thoughts about the break-up/relationship. With hindsight, I've been able to see how much of the relationship was unhealthy. I have supportive friends and partners and a great psychologist, but I can't break myself out of this rage loop currently -- and I know it's because he never understood or truly apologised for his part in the relationship's disintegration. My shrink suggests that aspects of the relationship were emotionally abusive/manipulative; I'm still figuring out how I feel about that.

I'm wary of listing everything (I don't want to bore you guys!), but looking back this partner had a lot of unresolved mental health issues he refused to seek help for. His depression and anxiety resulted in fun quirks like never opening mail, never paying bills, never cleaning, never dealing with fleas and never going to the doctor. (See the old thread for details!) Any attempt at compromise resulted in arguments where it'd seem like I was the unreasonable one -- by the end he loved to call me a nag or tell me I sounded like his mother. He also frequently accused me of possessiveness and of hating all his friends -- specifically, I didn't like the friends with whom he cheated on our relationship agreements with. He gaslit me A LOT and frequently "forgot" whole conversations. Typing this out, he sounds like a jerk, right? But Mr Sweetness always covers his actions in a thick, saccharine layer of never meaning to hurt anybody and just being naive (in his 40s) -- and any "cheating" would take forms so mild that he'd manage to convince me I was just overreacting. He's also the kind of guy who posts about lots of feminist issues on fb but then follows around and befriends younger girls. I don't think he's ever dated anyone over 25.

Edit: He also would go through phases of withdrawing affection and never contacting me, and then being really needy and over-affectionate. He talked over me CONSTANTLY and when I brought it up with him, would tell me he didn't know he was doing it and just talked excitedly when he felt safe. Did I want him to feel unsafe?? Also, and finally, HE WAS A CONDOM WHINGER, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

Maybe I should make a post under this to rant about specific anecdotes, then I can vent and you guys can skip!

Over the course of my poly life, I've put a lot of energy and effort into non-violent communication and have definitely become a person who goes away to calm down, makes a plan and talks it out. I have an extraordinarily secure primary relationship with extraordinary communication. With the partner I left, I put hours of effort into conversations using all the "I" language I could muster, etc., and they'd ALWAYS end in me apologising for upsetting him and causing a fuss. Occasionally he'd freak out so much he'd talk in the third person or tell me I'd made him feel unsafe by stating my boundaries. The problems would never resolve; he'd shut me down by telling me what a bad boyfriend he was until I caved; we'd have the same conversations over and over; and he'd forget we'd had any of them anyway!

My psychologist makes the valid point that this relationship was necessary in its context, in that we can see what drew me to him originally and what got me trapped. And I've come out the other side VERY sure of my boundaries and VERY sure I won't date anyone who isn't up to my standards again. (Okay, okay; I've made a few mistakes since -- but brief ones I nipped in the bud, right away! I swear!) But in the meantime, I'm ANGRRRYYYYYYYY. SO ANGRY. Partly because I know that if he never understood the issues in the whole time we dated, HE NEVER WILL. And partly because WHY WAS I SO DUMBBB??

So there you go. I'd welcome any advice for processing this stuff, understanding why I spent so many years loving someone like this, moving past the anger, and/or putting this ex in the bin.

[Heather]

Can I ask how it felt to just write all of this out here? Does doing that, all by itself, offer you what feels like a good outlet for your anger, and helps you let go of any of it?

(To be clear: when I talk about letting go of anger, that isn't about anyone needing to to be a good person or any of that. Rather, I'm talking about letting go of feelings that you find don't feel good to you or you feel are not serving you well.)

[Bonthrop]

Heather! My internet hero.

It makes me full of righteous fire-y rage and then usually wind up sobbing. But, given that I've been doing these things a lot (raging, ranting, crying), I'm wondering when it will get better.

[Heather]

What a sweet thing to say!

So, when you write it all out like this, you find it makes you feel MORE angry and upset, not less?

Can I also ask how long you've felt stuck in this particular headspace for?

[Bonthrop]

I guess it's a cycle. There's a bit of release in writing it all out, and there's definitely release in crying, but it's not sustained release.

Well, I guess I've been ruminating on all these things since the break-up last April. But I had a fun new relationship (with lots of new relationship energy!) around that time who is now overseas, so having them away has given me more time in the last five months or so to really get stuck into this headspace. My friends will tell you I've been stressed and whinging about this relationship since its origins in 2007.

[Heather]

Okay.

Let's imagine you get your ideal per what you think would help you come to peace with all this and really feel very resolved: what do you think you would need for that to happen? Again, let's not worry about realities right this second: let's start with open ideal scenarios.

[Bonthrop]

OPTIONAL RANTY RANT POST
(Please don't feel obligated to read this; it's just some specific events that I keep coming back to in my head!)

For years and years, I've had severe problems with period pain and interstitial cystitis. These problems both mysteriously vanished (or, in reality, became about 90% more manageable) when I left him (let's call him X) and his disgusting house.

We had a lot of grief about condoms, because he was convinced he could control when he'd ejaculate and for a couple of years I tolerated that. Eventually I wised up, and he got it in his head that when I'd tell him to "please put a condom on" it was because I wanted him to come right away and finish the sex asap. He got repeatedly sookie about this. He also pressured me to remove all my pubic hair and insisted that my live-in partner must be lying about not minding what I do with my hair.

When I was raped six years ago, X was the first to spring to the rescue. He was so angry he offered to kill the attacker (a mutual friend) or have him kneecapped. Like, he actually researched all these things and bought stuff like duct tape. This scared the crap outta me and, looking back, made it a lot worse. More recently, he ran into that attacker at a friend's party and punched him. When news got back to me, I went into shock -- but X (on the phone) kept insisting HE was fine and that he didn't need to come around or talk it out with me. Looking back, both instances were all about X and not about me and my agency at all. He also managed to read himself into a significant poem I had published about my assault.

Here's a classic! There was a girl (let's call her Y) who he befriended who invited herself to his and slept over, which was fine within the terms of our open relationship. (Anything more than that, and he'd need to contact to chat it over.) She masturbated in his bed and told him "I could make you if I wanted". He told me about this and thought it was amusing. When I told him it was a violation of our terms and that Y (why indeed!) couldn't possibly have any respect for me, he added her to his list of "friends of his I must hate because I'm a grump". Sure, there was a list of friends; most of them with similar stories to this, or who were generally unkind or dishonest people. I liked his kind, honest friends. I have no time for liars.

One of those friends in particular (Y2) was horrendously unkind to me and his housemates, and was cheating on her fiance with X, which I found deplorable. Around last Xmas, X came around to admit to me he'd had lunch with Y2 and that she'd apologised for any hurt she'd caused. He said he'd told her she had "nothing to apologise for" and explained to me that that was so since he hadn't witnessed her behaviour towards me. This is an example of his gaslighting. He didn't see it; it can't have happened. (He did see it, btw, and we talked it over many times.) He claimed he'd forgotten.

His house has a major flea infestation and I'm a spoonie with chronic illness. The flea bites caused me lots of irritation and upset, and then the cycles of flea bombs would make me sick. He outright refused to get professionals in. (I've since learnt about Comfortis and dealt with my own cat's flea outbreak within about three days.)

At the very end of the relationship, when (in accordance with the terms of my relationships) I'd begun seeing someone knew, X decided I'd violated the terms with the new partner and made me explain myself and apologise before I left the break-up conversation, which I did just to end it, because he wouldn't believe me that he'd just changed his own rules again.

The other night I read over an email I'd sent him on November 2013 and I impressed my present-self with how rational a message it was -- it concerned the fact that our conversations went in circles and that he'd shut them down by saying "I'm a bad boyfriend". It also addressed him talking over me, and the fleas. I remember we met after he'd read this to talk it over -- went went to a neutral zone: a cafe/bar -- and he actually seemed to dissociate. He spoke like a little boy, spoke in the third person, told me I'd made him feel unsafe and he wasn't sure if he could ever feel safe with me again -- and basically the conversation went nowhere and scared the crap out of me.

[Bonthrop]

Okay.

Let's imagine you get your ideal per what you think would help you come to peace with all this and really feel very resolved: what do you think you would need for that to happen? Again, let's not worry about realities right this second: let's start with open ideal scenarios.

Sure.

My ideal would be for him to listen to everything I have to say, accept criticism and understand it 100%, apologise sincerely, and go far away from me to become a better person.

My second-most ideal, if he'll never understand, would be to kick him in the shin and scream very loudly in his face like a banshee.

My only other idea is to put all of this into writing and perform some kind of self-guided cleansing ritual where I set it all on fire and bury it and put it symbolically to rest.

[Heather]

Have you ever tried writing a letter as if you were him, with him saying all of the things you would want him to? Sometimes something like that can stand in as the next-best thing.

In your next-best scenario, have you tried, or are you open to trying, the non-assault version of that, like by writing him a letter where you say all you would want a banshee scream to express?

I think one big thing to remember here that may also help is that the main reason you won't get that, in reality, from someone like him is that he's not that person. In other words, if he was that kind of person, he'd have none of this to take responsibility for, because he probably would not have done any of it in the first place.

You also ask, at the top here, why you "were so dumb." That is certainly something we can talk about and probably make some headway with. If you want to, I'd start by asking you to talk a bit about why you think any of this is about your being stupid (assuming that is what you mean by "dumb") at all? I'm pretty sure, from some supportive posts you made to others on the old board, that you don't think of other survivors as stupid, so why would you be?

[Bonthrop]

First up, I should revise my language -- 'dumb' is an ableist term I'm trying to drop. Sorry!

That's a good idea -- writing a letter as him to myself. I'm certainly open to trying that. I'm down for solo roleplaying, haha.

Well, I could write him an actual letter, but he has an actual phobia about opening mail. The same sometimes applies to his email. And there's a part of me that worries I'd send him into a spiral of depression or suicidal ideation, which I don't want to feel responsible for. (I know I wouldn't be responsible, really.) But you're right, if he were likely to get it now, he would've gotten it before or wouldn't have done those things at all. So it might be pointless trying to contact him.

I feel think by feeling foolish I mean I wish I could go back and tell my younger, more naive self everything I know now. I wish I hadn't been charmed by him and hadn't enabled it all/compromised/lived under such stress for so long. I know that's not fair on myself.

[Heather]

It's so not fair to you. We can't know things before we know them, after all, or somehow have perspective from life experiences we have not actually had. We can't be the us-of-now anytime before right now.

So, one anger that is really totally in your control to learn to let go of -- and perhaps the place where it's most vital you do -- is with anger with yourself. It usually gets us way further in this kind of healing when we are gentle with and forgiving of our past selves, rather than harsh on them. And anger with ourselves tends to often be some of the hottest, cruelest anger we have, so letting it go usually at least means decreasing how much of that anger we're holding unto, and the awful way we feel, radically.

I'd say you also have some more cues there per looking at even what you're saying above, that you feel you can't express yourself because this person will become depressed or kill themselves. They already suffer from depression: it isn't about you, nor can you make it be there with your words about how you have been hurt and harmed. And almost exclusively, people who mistreat others or are abusive do not kill themselves, because the fact of the matter is that they are very invested in avoiding harm to themselves, often way more so -- and to the point they harm others -- than anyone else. But again, even were that to happen, it wouldn't likely be about you or you stating you have been harmed. Plus, this kind of thinking -- that you have to protect someone who has been abusive to you, or keep them from your truth because you fear what effect it would have on them, usually based in the things they used to control and manipulate you with most -- is really part and parcel of having been controlled or abused. Whether you write and send a letter or not, I'd see if you can't look clearly some more at that for yourself, recognize it for what it really is, and work through what is probably yet another source of self-loathing or anger at yourself more than anything else.

[Bonthrop]

That's really helpful, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk it over with me. (I know how busy you guys are!)

I can talk to my psychologist further, too, about how to forgive myself.

Re: the final paragraph, would you say the relationship was abusive, based on what we've talked about here? I hope that's not a silly question. I think something contributing to my stress about this is coming to terms with the concept that actually he wasn't a trustworthy or compassionate person after so many years of feeling in love with him.

[Heather]

It sounds to me, from this post and others, like it was emotionally abusive and controlling, yes.

But that's really something I find people do best with when they come to that themselves, if they do. So, it might be worth just looking at some pieces on abuse (and doing what you can to evaluate the relationship with that information as if you were evaluating someone else's relationship can be useful) for yourself, even if you have before.

For instance, here -- Blinders Off: Getting a Good Look at Abuse and Assault -- you will see a basic definition of emotional abuse (AKA battering), with bolding from me for your benefit:

Emotional and/or verbal abuse: Behaviors which are used to emotionally control, dominate, manipulate or intimidate a person. Emotional abuse is: threats, name-calling, belittling, criticizing, or using words or actions in an attempt to make another person feel stupid, small, crazy, ashamed or worthless. Other aspects of emotional abuse can include: isolating a person by keeping them from friends or family, dismissing limits and boundaries, intentionally withholding general approval or support, constantly laying false blame on a partner, attempting to control someone’s appearance or their physical freedom through threats or belittling, profound possessiveness or a pattern of harming someone then begging their forgiveness or shifting the blame for abuse onto them. Emotional abuse is often thought to be the most benign form of abuse, however, it has the capacity to harm just as deeply as any other type of abuse, and for many people who have suffered a range of different abuses, emotional abuse can carry the deepest scars, especially when it has occurred during childhood or adolescence. As well, emotional and verbal abuse often escalate to other forms of abuse over time.

I'd also add to this that an older person seeking out much-younger partners and then setting up the relationship so the much-younger person is the one LESS in need of care (he's mentally ill, so while he doesn't have to help himself, *you* have to arrange every part of your life and interactions with him around this) and the one who needs to act more like an adult is something we often see in controlling relationships like this. Suffice it to say, manipulation was also probably involved from the get-go, since I highly doubt you or anyone else would be rushing in to be with a dude way older than you who not only is a jerk, but also doesn't even have his own basic shit together like you do.

Mental illness isn't something someone can control, however, it is something someone, especially someone his age, and someone capable enough to pursue and have intimate relationships, can get help with and take care of themselves with. And it is something that if and when someone is too mentally ill to do that, they can take responsibility around, which includes nixing intimate relationships or putting them on hold while they first care for themselves and become capable of healthy intimacy with others. Plenty of mentally ill people manage all of that. Some don't because they simply can't, but I don't suspect that was or is the case for this person. You can go on and on about feminism in social media, you can pursue young women and get them to come home with you and then control them, you can get yourself to a doctor or take a medication.

Perhaps more to the point, it sounds clearly to me like he knew he was bad news and was to you. He just didn't seem to care, most likely because you were good news for him.

[Bonthrop]

Ah, man. Yep. Lots to think over and reassess and take with me to my next psych appt.

I think I had trouble categorising it as abuse since he never, you know, called me names or yelled at me or hit me or anything. I've spent a lot of the last few days googling, and have found a few other resources that resonate too, like ticking off most of the things on this list: https://www.psychopathfree.com/content. ... -Red-Flags

I'm sitting here and a sweet 80s film montage of other memories consistent with this are flashing back into my head: things he did in bed without explicit consent, things other girls told me about him, him making excuses for a mutual friend who stalked and abused another mutual friend...

I'll consider whether to confront him, too, though I suspect it'd be pointless. It'd probably be better to block him.

Okay. The next bits of the plan are to talk to my psych and also get Warsan Shire's line "I belong deeply to myself" tattooed somewhere on my person.

[Heather]

So, so often, our ideas about what are and are not abuse aren't based in anything sound or, worst of all, are based more in abusers excuses and rationalizations than anything else. "But I didn't hit her," is nothing more than a line from the abuser's classic handbook, and yet, you see how much that filtered down into how so many people conceptualize abuse. And that really sucks, because, of course, it makes it much, much harder for people to see that abuse is happening before it gets so bad, people's lives are in danger.

Really, I think the best way to consider this is to just stay with the most basic definition of abuse or assault, which is someone harming or hurting someone with intent. HOW someone does that varies, and people can do that in any of the ways we do anything. And by all means, people who stick to emotional abuse and control make a sickly-smart choice, because they are the ones most likely to get away with abuse and control over and over again. People who harm others that way usually know full well how effective it is both per the impact it has and how damn easy it is to get away with it AND easily convince the person being abused it isn't happening.

I'd also add that it really can be hard for people to accept that we have been abused. Despite what some people say to the contrary, it is safe to say that almost no one on earth wants to be a victim and wants to have been victimized. It busts up our self-esteem not just during, but after, makes us feel like we can't trust ourselves or others, and just knowing we have been victimized, really knowing it, just plain stinks. But it's made all the harder if and when we make that more about how we suck or were foolish than about the fact that something happened to us because someone chose to treat us that way, willingly and using wantedly. Someone else chose to control us or keep us locked in and hurting because, as messed up as it is, that made THEM feel good, or at least better, and they chose, again knowingly, to be in a relationship of two people where they really only cared about one of them: themselves.

Having been in abuse or control says much, much more about the person abusing or controlling than it will ever, ever say about the person who someone else has abused or controlled. Really, all being abused or controlled ultimately says about us is that we happened to have the crummy luck of being within reach of, and vulnerable to, as we always are, someone who wanted to treat people that way, and we were just people they had the opportunity to abuse or control at a given time, something that can be true of anyone at all.

[Bonthrop]

Indeed. Just like my understanding of sexual assault, really; took a long time to accept that mine counted and that I had, in that case, been victimised. And it's always, always the attacker or abuser's choices, and never the survivor's fault.

Looks like I'll have some work to do. I think this has been really helpful, though. Thank you. I feel more of a sense of relief after this chat than after cycles of rant-rage-cry. I'll keep working at it.

[Heather]

Glad to be of help. You know where to find us if you want to talk more about this or anything else.

[Bonthrop]

Thank you. (I'm sure I could rant all day... But somehow it's 4.30am where I am!)

I think it is/will be easier for me to let go of some of the anger if I can acknowledge to myself that it was a system he structured to keep me there and to keep an unhealthy relationship rolling, regardless of whether it was intentional. That makes it easier, I think, to come to terms with a lack of resolution if the answer to why he never understood was not because he was confused but because he was an abuser. Hopefully these things will help, anyway.

I'll sleep on it and see how I'm feeling.

[Heather]

No one is this confused and yet still manages to live to be 40 without a full-time caretaker. Seriously. Unless he is suffering from truly serious psychosis, this isn't about him being confused or not understanding this isn't how you treat someone.

I agree, I do think that approach will help. Even if you just go with that and then re-read all you have posted here, it's pretty hard to miss the intentionality on his part throughout. Same goes with your own feelings of anger. I have no doubt that if you truly thought someone was simply this lost and confused that a) you wouldn't have stayed in an intimate relationship with them, because you would have recognized that simply is not something someone like that was at all capable of, and b) you'd not likely be this angry. We don't usually get angry like this with someone for just being clueless, confused or ignorant. We get angry like this when we know -- even if we aren't ready to totally accept -- that there was an intention to hurt us and to keep hurting us.

Plus, we don't have to actually understand someone to be respectful of their limits and treat them with care. A person can totally not understand why they need to do that, and yet STILL DO THAT. And people who abuse, especially older adults who do, usually aren't in a situation where they simply do not understand what is abusive and what is healthy. They know, they want what they want, and they know you can't get emotional control over someone else in a healthy relationship and honest interactions, which is why they manipulate instead.

(Though again, him getting this long in the tooth and having no clue about any of this, is about as likely as pigs flying overhead.)

[Bonthrop]

Thanks so much for your thoughts and time the other day. It was good having my live-in boyfriend read over this, and talking to my ldr boyf too, and having them affirm what you had to say. For my live-in, with whom my relationship with this ex ran concurrently for several years, this all struck some chords. He always felt the relationship was unhealthy (and supported me through trying to maintain it and eventually ending it), but had never known the red flags well enough to call this stuff out for what it is. Plus, he too was taken in by the eternal puppy-dog-eyes ploy, even if he and the ex weren't really friends.

This is all useful and productive etc. etc., but at the moment I'm just feeling really sad. LDR boyf suggested writing down what ex made me feel and reaffirming my identify/refuting what he made me feel about myself. Gonna try that.

[Heather]

Glad to have been of help. Also really glad to hear you getting so much support from your current partners!

[Bonthrop]

Did I ever mention, Heather, that one of his ways of dealing with the fleas in his house — since an effective way to kill them is to drown them — was to eat them.

Eat fleas. He eats fleas. He eats fleas. Let that sink in for a little while. I dated a guy who put fleas in his mouth. I dated Renfield. Eats fleas.

EATS. FLEAS.