Demolition

[pk_Gar]

My Urge for Self Deconstruction

Me
I'm a 20 yr old who will and is living with one of my parents. I stay at home browsing the internet and since being alone in my thoughts I've had reflections. I do not have full autonomy to privately seek IRL counsel.

Summary question: How does one unlearn multiple biases (and phobias), some internalizations and how to actually be a kind human when it feels impossible?

TW: Multiple Phobia / Sexism discussion

Home Environment

I grew up in church settings since birth—non denominational/Lutheran etc. My mother had and continues to have an influence in my life with living under one parent. The bible is considered integral in her life and now since reconnecting with my father recently, he is a reader of the bible (but not as strictly religious) as well.

Parent Ideals and The Churches

Reflection on my mother and her church I remember being told I couldn't agree/endorse the lgbtq+, I recall at age 13-14. I remember overhearing that “these people” were confused and needed praying for. “Love the person hate the sin” was a common phrase.

Her opinions

When I was curious about lesbianism I browsed a private tab that she somehow found and gave me a short lecture on. She was hurt, she didn't want me to go to hell. “Are you…?” I immediately said no. I personally knew I wasn't. Much later, I went with her friend to church; I was sitting in the back row while they were trying to cast out the spirit of lesbianism in another girl. Another time a character from her favorite show turned out to be gay, it was something that was ruined for her and she still decided to like the show *despite* of that.
“I believe God would want you to have kids” (previously had a surprised reaction to wanting sterilization)
“You know you love God. You're a believer aren't you?” (When people ask if I'm religious)
“We don't do that.” (Took away my sex toys I bought legally)

His opinions

Since meeting my father I come to terms with his opinions too: I'm told I wasn't a modern woman, I wasn't the type outlined in the book “Men From Mars, Women From Venus”. I was “better” than my bloodline for not seeing a man is something I didn't need for my life to be good as a woman. My mother “needed” a man to guide her, men make traditions, women perpetuate them. Women can ruin generations of children, single mothers bogging down the black community. But that was just *those* women! Not all of them but enough to influence xyz!
“Cis and trans aren't real, they just have body dysmorphia”
“You can't change sex.”
“We are binary creatures.”

These were two different people but they both sounded like the same traditionalism of a different flavor. It sounds easy for cisgender heterosexuals to say all of this because they don't understand understand… (1)

My Ideals

To be honest neither did I…(2)
I don't want to believe that I absorbed any of this because why would I want to be seen as a bigoted enemy? Through reflection I know part of me wanted to step back to examine anyway:

What I know and Cannot Hide

As a cishet person, I have many privileges. I'm not innately different from the status norm; self identity won't be something that leads me out of closed minded views. I realize I generally don't understand or believe in anyone who isn't me, it's the fake love that makes me appear to seem nice just to keep the peace. I fear differences because it makes me feel more disconnected, I only truly understand unless it's happening to me. I feel like I'm being fake nice; It's all surface level, it makes me wonder how people are so nice naturally? I want to believe in what's true but deep down I don't, it feels scripted. How do I not invalidate them in my mind? I want to understand fully.

I don't hate anyone but I still feel closer to conservatism than reality. For example, subconsciously I feel like I've misgendered someone in my mind without even thinking like it was second nature even though consciously I've addressed them correctly before. Gender essentialism? Bioessentialism? I never heard of that until recently but somehow I already have the full mental programming that believes these things are true along with a few stereotypes.

More and more, I feel unable to leave my subconscious ingrainations. Yes I read lgbtq media (It made me uncomfortable to sit through reading and watching media related to that—unlike other girls I seriously struggle to read yaoi), met people from the community and slowly lurked in left leaning spaces but it feels like nothing has worked. As if I'm forcing myself to be a good person.
I distanced myself from those friends because I didn't want them to know the true me inside.
If I was born outside the manufactured perception in a progressive household maybe I'd have a chance, if I wasn't cishet maybe I'd have a chance to force my way out of archaism and miserable right-wingers.
Yes i dropped a series in middle school because a character had a same-sex relationship
I feel like the odd one out because I don't want to fully ingest what I'm used to but being around progressives I can't relate to.
I believe that when no one is challenged they never wake up. Sometimes I wonder what's the point of being woke (I use woke in this definition “Woke means being conscious of racial discrimination in society and other forms of oppression and injustice”. Origin from the black community—NOT the politicized version.) When I don't have the abilities to not be asleep, have strong enough empathy, or if it's not something I have the courage to stand up against it in my own environment or mind.

Honesty

I think these views don't look good (however my motivation shouldn't be selfish). I don't want to be seen as an evil cishet, I personally think people who aren't those identities simultaneously are “enlightened”. They are smarter than me. Normally in my environment you never heard that you aren't confined to a god or you have bodily control or you can categorize yourself as you even if it's not understandable to others. I became drawn to the environment outside that because of it even though my identity hasn't changed or I personally think I don't think it has. (It's hard whether to take myself seriously because is it real or do I just want to believe I'm different because I want an escape?) If you seen my faint bisexuality question it's hard to know for sure because idk if I'm inadvertently fetishizing so it's easier to say I'm just cishet.
Some days I feel less progressive than others, relapses etc.
Deep deep conditioning makes me question if I actually believe these things and why? To the point I can't tell the difference between what I absorbed vs believe. I don't think I have a sense of self put together yet.
No one told me to believe these things so is it from me? Why is it so easy to parrot the right? Why do I see the world as me vs them?
Logically I've learned things but emotionally, subconsciously, bodily I still see I haven't become a real ally or even changed as a person?

This isn't just sexuality. I keep thinking about my place in society from the things I hear about women. I'm good because I'm submissive and would serve a man? Why do men get to- etc. Etc. My insecurities as what I am and unable to be anything else made me feel misandric and hatred against myself. Why am I the weaker sex? Etc etc. Through my insecurities I believe I adopted heteropessimism (I hate that it's been co-opted to say that men aren't blank but that's not what I'm getting at) and thought of how confined yet comfortable it is to be within cisheteronormative roles. I haven't been able to reject this because then where would I be without it? However the framework is harmful. Being asleep requires no work at all. If I'm privileged then why... but I know it's a luxury to be ignorant for people like me.

This is what I've been sitting on since wanting to separate myself from the church at 17. I am 20 now, I assume the guise that nothing is bothering me to avoid telling people IRL I know about this.

Solutions?
If I surround myself maybe I'll sponge up things? Though actively choosing and participating is what I probably have to do. Like using my eyes, talking, listening, and moving. More than one thing all at once to try to realllllly get rid of entrenched idealogy. Something to reverse 10 yrs of this. Books, meeting people, it's just not enough. I want a new brain entirely. Unlearning is far away near impossible to me but I don't want to give up... but it's so hard not to feel discouraged when you SHOULD AUTOMATICALLY be a good person. This shouldn't be this hard.

[Sofi]

Hi, pk_Gar.
I'm so sorry you're struggling so much with all this - and I'm so sorry you grew up in an environment where you couldn't explore your identity because it was treated as immoral to be anything but straight. That kind of programming is really hard to get out from, so give yourself some grace and props for how far you've come!

I don't hate anyone but I still feel closer to conservatism than reality. For example, subconsciously I feel like I've misgendered someone in my mind without even thinking like it was second nature even though consciously I've addressed them correctly before. Gender essentialism? Bioessentialism? I never heard of that until recently but somehow I already have the full mental programming that believes these things are true along with a few stereotypes.

Here you mention you've subconsciously misgendered someone but consciously addressed them correctly. This shows you are trying, you are doing the work, and I don't believe we should beat ourselves up for subconscious beliefs that are deeply ingrained in us by society, our parents, our church, etc. It does NOT make you a bad person - you didn't choose as a kid to grow up around those beliefs, but you ARE choosing as an adult to change them, and that's what really matters.

I don't want to be seen as an evil cishet, I personally think people who aren't those identities simultaneously are “enlightened”. They are smarter than me.

As someone who is queer and has known and explored that since I was probably 8 years old (as well as holding multiple other marginalized identities), and has been around MANY queer folks, I can tell you, this is not true. We are not smarter, enlightened, or morally superior. We are just humans who were born into an identity we didn't choose, but we're just humans the same as you and everyone else. We make mistakes, we hold biases, and we can even be bigots. I won't name names, but there are groups of LGBTQ+ people who are anti-trans, hateful towards BIPOC, etc.

Deep deep conditioning makes me question if I actually believe these things and why? To the point I can't tell the difference between what I absorbed vs believe. I don't think I have a sense of self put together yet.

This is very common at your age, and nowadays we have unlimited access to the internet, which doesn't help. We are constantly hearing we should be this way, that way, the right way, the wrong way...it can be very confusing. It's not your fault you don't have a sense of self put together, and you're being self aware by acknowledging it. But I promise, at 20 no one has a sense of self yet. So again, please try to give yourself some grace here. <3

Unlearning is far away near impossible to me but I don't want to give up... but it's so hard not to feel discouraged when you SHOULD AUTOMATICALLY be a good person. This shouldn't be this hard.

I don't want to overwhelm you with too much, but I want to add one more thing. I want to challenge you to think outside the binary of "good" and "bad/evil". The truth is, when we see people are inherently good or bad, we don't leave any room for them to grow, evolve, or simply be humans who make mistakes. Morality is a complicated subject, so I won't go too deep into this, but I just want to invite you to see people as just human. We can do good things, we can do bad things (although, again, who and what determines "good" and "bad" is subjective and varies by culture). But the idea that you're either a good or a bad person is used to punish and condemn people, to make people feel guilty and ashamed, and often to control them. Just like not all queer people are "good" (using your framework of good=not bigoted or discriminatory), not all conservative people are "bad" (again, there's a lot of room for subjective interpretation here, which is kind of my point).

Does this make sense? I want to pause here and see how you feel so far.

[pk_Gar]

Yes I often get stuck in dichotomies. I'm intensely a binary thinker to my complete detriment. I think that very much ties into why I'd struggle to understand those who don't function on such binaries.

What I meant by smarter is, I never hear anyone break down gender or sexuality beyond just cishet in my circles. Because of diversity amongst the lgbt there's automatically going to be discussion and common knowledge about things beyond basic binary. They'd know about it off rip because if you're apart of the community and in community with others you WILL soak it up, I assume it isn’t hard to know if you're surrounded by other community members. I see my side of the world as very homogeneous and barely growing as a society unless you branch out and specialized. Church teaches you 2k old stuff, you go home to a spouse you hate or don't hate and you live life as either man or woman, do those roles and die. I learned about intersectionality from left spaces.
- And yes I see that gender/identity/sexuality doesn't make anyone exempt from bigotry. I was surprised because I'd expect that from ignorant people who are more on the right and less involved with the reality of other people existing

Maybe that's why I'm drawn outside of that but I'm not lgbtq myself so it feels strange to not "belong" to either home (wanting to reject my old one).

That's my two cents on the pause. Feel free to expand further I know this is a life long topic I will have to reckon with. I keep visiting these ideas since late teenagehood little by little I will admit progress but I know I'm starting far behind the starting line because I don't have IRL folks who might understand this liminal space.

I always think I'm being insincere and tense up when interacting with anyone who is different from the majority. I don't even have to blink and switch flips on of "oh no here's where I have to put myself on eggshells bc what if my toxicity spills out, my bckgrd doesn't even support/believe in xyz i can't let myself ruin this. This makes it harder to connect. What if I grow uninterested, am I fetishizing?" unbeknownst to this human who's just living life. I shut up and hide myself because of tact.

[mikky]

Hey Pk_Gar, I’m Mikky, we spoke over the text services a bit. I’ve been thinking about you and your learning journey a lot since we last chatted! I find your thoughtfulness and ambition to challenge internalized beliefs SO awesome.

Like Sofi said- being LGBTQ+ certainly doesn’t make people exempt from bigotry, or even necessarily knowledgeable about less binary thinking. Many folks, even in the community, have never felt the need to challenge their own biased thinking– whether that be transphobic, gender essentialist, ableist, or racist. One idea that might be helpful to think about is called intersectionality. You’ve possibly heard the term “intersectional feminism,” which has often been used a lot recently in the public sphere, but the term intersectionality originated in legal studies in a 1989 paper by Kimberle Crenshaw. She was trying to describe the way that in law, one was either defined as Black or a woman, but not necessarily a Black woman (treating these identities as mutually exclusive).
That binary thinking that we are one thing or another comes from some pretty deeply baked cultural, political, and legal structures that don’t cope well when we are somewhere in between, or overlapping, or many many things at once.

A visual I like is that our beliefs are sort of a Jenga tower. If we take out some of the foundational blocks that really support that structure out, we see some pretty major effects. But that effect doesn’t necessarily just happen because we are gay, or trans, or poor, or disabled, especially if our belief structure has been built on a strong foundation that punishes difference.

Something I’ve been wanting to ask you is what prompted you to start thinking about the beliefs you were raised with? What does and doesn’t sit well with you from what you learned growing up?

While you might feel behind, the initiative that you are taking to think about how you think is no small thing. Think about how many people go through life refusing to assess what they believe and why they believe it. And to loop back a bit to how LGBTQ+ folks understand ourselves and others– MANY of us learn this about ourselves later in life. Maybe we never knew it was a possibility. But in terms of feeling like you are missing out on some IRL connection, I totally understand. When we interact with folks in real life, it can also be a little less concentrated than it is in a space like this. I know your options are limited, but I wonder if there might be a book club or discussion group in your area that would introduce you to some new folks and ways of thinking. As I think I’ve said before, you don’t have to agree with every new idea. Disagreement and discourse are both major parts of figuring out what you think.

It would make sense that you would feel tense or nervous when interacting with folks you feel are different. I think letting go of some perfectionism might help. While it is true that there can be a culture where when folks make mistakes, they can be harshly judged (and that gets amplified online!) but there are so many people in the world that want to help others learn. In my life, many folks I love have changed their names many times. It takes quite a bit of conscious effort at first to change the pattern in my brain that associates a person with a name! But time and repetition helps, as well as knowing that mistakes are bound to happen.

You mention that you’re worried about “ruining” a connection. What would that look like? How would you speak to a friend or someone you care about if they were worried about isolating you or being toxic towards you?

Lastly, I am hearing in your writing that you want to feel the change in beliefs deeply, maybe as much as you feel what you were raised to believe- is that right? What would that look like?

[mikky]

Hey Pk_gar,
Just wanted to check in since it's been a month and I know you've been working through some very challenging questions! I hope you are lending yourself plenty of patience and time.

[pk_Gar]

Hello, apologies for the long gap in reply.

"Something I’ve been wanting to ask you is what prompted you to start thinking about the beliefs you were raised with? What does and doesn’t sit well with you from what you learned growing up?"

I started to consider it when I had a friend from the LGBTQ+ community and I heard in church I couldn't support that. Why? 'Love the person, hate the sin' sounds so fake, like I'm picking and choosing to like certain parts of person while "praying" for them? Why is love or personal identity considered wrong? These people didn't do anything to us, God, or anyone. I'm thinking over it now, and it's like why wouldn't God want people to be happy???

Later on from when I first felt odd, I started to drift and read a little about community outside of my bubble. I grew up in an environment where I doubt had a diverse amount of views. It's religious or God-adjacent and people who weren't straight or cisgender I only heard or rarely seen. To be honest, I STILL feel like I have that weird aversion for no logical reason. IT'S BOTHERING ME, I'm ashamed because why would we judge? People just want to live and survive. It's embarrassing that I still have that in my heart, and honestly I'm worried about making friends because if they need me to stand up for the right thing and be on their side I can't be a coward.

"How would you speak to a friend or someone you care about if they were worried about isolating you or being toxic towards you?"

I guess I'd be glad they're concerned, I'd want to know why. They don't have to agonize about it, just work on being a better person, ya know?

Not too long ago I came across a community that was heterosexual and non-conforming. I think I like that space because I can relate to their identity more even though I'm a conforming individual. It's more open minded and bridging gaps with LGBTQ and cishet. To me, it's what I've looking for ngl- a space that's not side-eyeing or silent about different walks of life. It's kinda a middle space between traditional cishet culture and LGBTQ+ culture, that liminal in-between space. Too bad it's only online, it's like a plethora of tumblr blogs. I wish I did identify with them, I wish! But I genuinely like the atmosphere better than what I want to unlearn: that unspoken "God will fix them", the fact that people around me wouldn't know what others are going through because our identity doesn't create friction, and that outspoken disagreement about other's lifestyle.

Hopefully that answers some questions. Feel free to check me on any I missed.

[Sofi]

Hi there pk_Gar, it's nice to hear from you again. No need to apologize for the long gap, this space is for you and you're welcome to use it however best suits you. <3

I want to touch on something you said: "To be honest, I STILL feel like I have that weird aversion for no logical reason. IT'S BOTHERING ME, I'm ashamed because why would we judge?"

While I agree it's not okay to judge people, especially for things like gender and sexuality, I also don't think shame is a helpful way to feel. Shame is a pretty pointless feeling in most cases and it is actually used by the same people you are referring to, to shame LGBTQ+ folks for the way they are born and the way they choose to live life. So feeling shame makes sense, since you grew up around it, but I just want to invite you to shed that shame and instead lean into learning more while giving yourself grace and patience. You feel an aversion because that's what you were taught since childhood and it's not easy to get rid of these beliefs overnight.

How are you feeling overall about the work you've been putting in? I'm glad to hear you've found that space, by the way, it sounds like a great place for the beginning of this journey for you.

[pk_Gar]

I might be redundant pardon me.

"How are you feeling overall about the work you've been putting in?"

I think I need to start over or have something stronger (I lurk and looked at online spaces that were GNC and LGBTQ+ friendly but I haven't joined anything - I have to look into that), I wanted to move away from my environment entirely hoping that would help but I can't change spaces at the moment (and something tells me that might not solve it anyways).


Sometimes I feel fine and other days the feeling gets worse. I don't understand it because logically I know it's wrong yet the feelings aren't following that logic. Does that make sense?

I don't know if it's right but sometimes I wish I grew up in environment that didn't see others' lifestyles as wrong. "If only my mother liked women, or if my father was less traditional..." it's strange to wish right? But I noticed people who grew up with parents who are in the community are way more accepting, it's literally second nature to them!

The space I found is a blog I follow, it's nice and I'm learning a bit but I feel like it's not enough. Should I read media since I'm not able to go to in person places? (What books would you recommend? I forgot to ask this last time on here about this particular topic.) I think I'll stick out like a sore thumb anyways because before I found that blog to read I never heard of any spaces that were cishet, openly supportive, and dealt with issues that happen in traditional conformist culture. I once thought LGBTQ+ and the cisgender + heterosexual identity were opposites, like there was some us vs them gap. It's helping me think but I don't know how I can fully shed the things that bother me inside and just chill. I wanted to watch a show but didn't get to it because of my own reactions. Sometimes I wonder if I was born with this mindset with how deep it's taken root or chose to be like this... discouraged on if I'll ever change. I don't know how people can actively choose to be this way, it's disappointing and illogical.

And yeah, shame doesn't help anyone but I know that it's not something that can wash away overnight....

Oh this question I had missed:
"I am hearing in your writing that you want to feel the change in beliefs deeply, maybe as much as you feel what you were raised to believe- is that right? What would that look like?"

I think I'll be able to actively support folks around me and throw away the previous rhetoric I've known. I think I notice that in my environment people hold unspoken rules, you can't be a certain way or else you'll get a different reaction. I know that if I decide to be less cowardly, I can decide to not care that what my mother or the church thinks. Honestly feel like I'd be free if I'm no longer having those beliefs. I could be more empathetic, read all types of media, and probably learn to be a good ally instead of a bystander. I know I can't speak from others' experiences because only they have the ability to advocate and give accurate information but I could wholeheartedly support them from the sidelines.
Maybe it's odd to say but people who can read all types of romance I feel jealous of because they aren't weighed down by their phobias or ingrained beliefs. That's where I want to be, and I know that the people I know might not be able to help me get there, especially the church. I remember going on a Christian retreat and there was some drama about a girl who confessed that she was bisexual. Why? Seriously, why would knowing that change anything? It's like this everywhere and I don't want to contribute it.

[Becky]

Hi pk_Gar!

I'm curious about what you mean by

I think I need to start over or have something stronger, I wanted to move away from my environment entirely hoping that would help but I can't change spaces at the moment (and something tells me that might not solve it anyways).

What would starting over look like for you?

Because it sounds like to me that you're doing really amazingly on your journey! Unlearning these kind of ingrained beliefs is incredibly hard. It's a lot of two steps forward, one step back.

Also, I can definitely recommend some LGBQT+ books for you! Would you enjoy something fictional or are you looking for educational/non-fiction options?

There's a really cool resource called The Queer Liberation Library which you can access on your phone via the Libby app. It's basically a digital library with a bunch of LGBTQ+ focused books! https://www.queerliberationlibrary.org/

[pk_Gar]

"What would starting over look like for you?"

I think being more intentional, reading media much more often. Does that help with exposure?
How do I get rid of knee jerk reactions that happen aside from knowing what's right and wrong? It's cognitive dissonance right?

Often I feel like an outsider approaching topics I'm learning. I'm assuming that's a good thing though right? Sometimes I wonder if I'm being negative though, focusing on things I can't relate to and how people of my identity intersection hurt others.

I think I'll start educational nonfiction!

[KierC]

Hey pk_Gar!

I hope it’s ok that I’m hopping in here. I’ve read through your post history here and I just wanted to say I’m struck and inspired by your journey you’re taking here to learn more about the LGBTQ+ community and your feelings toward others in your life, including some biases you hold.

I hear you that you want to be more intentional about the journey you’re taking by reading some media, and when I was reading your post earlier on I actually thought of some media you might like to look through! As a start, here’s the Queer Grace encyclopedia: https://queergrace.com/. I think it’s really helpful for folks who want to be a better ally and who want to shed some biases after growing up in a more conservative religious environment. It looks like the website also has community groups, which may be something you might like to check out!

To answer your question, I definitely think you’re right that consuming media can help expose you to new ideas and a more accepting mindset. Honestly, I think that knee-jerk reaction you’re describing is a symptom of holding the “right vs. wrong” framework too close to heart. When we accept nuance and complexity, it’s harder for that knee jerk “that’s right vs that’s wrong” reaction to set in. How does that land with you?

I see what you mean about feeling like an outsider when you’re learning about this stuff, and I also agree with you that you might be focusing a bit hard on the things that keep you separate or different from others. I wonder what it might look like for you to intentionally place aside that search for difference in favor or a search for meaning and understanding of the other. How does that sound to you?

On the topic of feeling bogged down by differences, I want to send you one of my favorite essays by Audre Lorde, The Transformation of Silence into Language and Action: https://caps.sfsu.edu/sites/default/fil ... Action.pdf

This piece has a lot of helpful language around navigating differences that I’ve used and kept with me throughout my life as a person in community with others. Audre Lorde says that it isn’t really differences that keep us apart, but silence about those differences. I’ve taken that as inspiration to become involved in more diverse discussions with people, so to me the answer to how to learn more here might be a mixture of media And new community. How does that sound to you?

[pk_Gar]

Thanks for the resources.

"How does that land with you?"
Yeah I have a mindset that makes it hard not to just reduce things to this or that. Like binary thinking? I'm trying to understand that it's more grey areas and that growth isn’t linear.

Sidebar: I felt like all or nothing/binary thinking the worst type of thinking to have because LGBTQ+ is meant to break the average assumption of black and white thinking of how people experience life right?

"How does that sound to you?"
It sounds good but I can't help but think that "Am I invading? I don't want to say the wrong things. What do I say if there will be a time I need to speak up? There's not much I could say?" But it's like how do I connect to others without erasing their experience? I'm constantly reminded about how much I can't relate, how much that need to change, how my privilege blinds me and how others complain about the majority of cishet society. It's like "why should I be here? Maybe I'm right to seperate myself from them because there's no one in my irl environment that's like them. They have their space and I have mine, it'll probably hurt them less if we're only surrounded by people who are like us...."

Earlier today I watched a video about how straight women tend to be homophobic (to bi men). I'm like, damn it, and I felt ashamed again because wow there's a lot of bad history and I'm the oppressor here! I took on that because of others with the same identity as mine. I think that issue also has to do with insecurity and fear. Unfortunately, I've found myself realizing that "I might not be enough compared to a man" and some internalized misogyny really feeds into biphobia. My self loathing can easily feed into zero-sum thinking which leads to more different types of phobias. Another example, I've looked over my journals recently and felt jealous of folks discovering and living out their femininity - the bad thoughts of: on certain women it was "boring" but on non-women and feminine men it was celebrated or desired more! I don't know if you watch content in the zeitgeist but I felt insecure when I came across a meme: "this feminine guy is actually a woman? I'm no longer interested".

I felt devastated over an imaginary scenario, being that fragile and insecure I heard was a common thing around people who have bigoted views. I'm still trying to teach myself that cisgender and straightness isn't the default and everything shouldn't be catered to that identity.

I couldn't even bring myself to watch a horror with queer themes, because why? This overwhelming feeling that pushed me away from even watching the first episode, I'm missing out on a good story and those women miss out on good men just because of how they believe... Sometimes I get jealous or guilty interacting with others who aren't bogged down by multiple phobias (how do I get rid of all these biases? There's a LOT, might as well say LGBTQphobic and anyone who is different, five laundry lists worth of stuff).

What does a community look like and having those discussions? Is it like frequent meetings or volunteering? I'm not an authority but rather a student. Do you know of any success stories? People who overcame their biases? Is it weird that I want to also see someone I relate to there? (I think it gives me hope to see cishet people being genuinely open minded because then it means I can change, not all cishet are like the ones I know. does that make sense? That's why I'm clinging to the tumblr blogs I followed despite not relating to them - it's a virago blog)

Oh and that article about silence, the last page about folks still learning things from people who aren't like them like Plato or Shakespeare, it helped me think about how to try to approach the topic that's different from me. Seeing how that difference is valuable, Plato is likely famous because he thought different from the average person. I want to appreciate difference without tying my own feelings to it, like sometimes I think I make it about me instead of what can I learn? I think it might be easiest to learn from reading because real life people aren't obligated to teach me. I also feel like yeah, there's only so much time in the world. I recently had a big medical event for a short moment. It made me realize these feelings around this were limiting but they also are really strong, strong enough to make me freeze when confronted. Although, I don't have the luxury to not do anything and wait for the feelings to go away. If I understood the article correctly.

[Sofi]

Sidebar: I felt like all or nothing/binary thinking the worst type of thinking to have because LGBTQ+ is meant to break the average assumption of black and white thinking of how people experience life right?

I want to gently correct something here that I think (and hope) will help you in this journey. Queer people aren't trying to do anything - not break assumptions, not be a novelty or a trend etc - we are just existing. I know you know that, but the wording here brings out some of the programming you received growing up: that LGBTQ+ was an agenda or a movement. The truth is, while there is a movement and we have celebrations like Pride, which started as a protest and still is for some, we are just regular people, who didn't choose to be born queer. We were just born, realized at some point we were queer, and are just existing that way.

The reason I think it's important for you to understand that wholly is because it will help get rid of the guilt around things like occasionally having black and white thinking (see: I'm queer and autistic, so I myself have very black and white thinking), because it has nothing to do with LGBTQ+ folks. It will also help deconstruct the idea that queer people are morally better or more knowledgable on social justice etc... because again, we're the same as you. There are conservative queer people just like there are liberal and progressive queer people. There are racist, transphobic, misogynistic, and xenophobic queer people, too (unfortunately). We are all different and aren't immune to society's programming of hurtful beliefs, or to black or white thinking.

"How does that sound to you?"
It sounds good but I can't help but think that "Am I invading? I don't want to say the wrong things. What do I say if there will be a time I need to speak up? There's not much I could say?" But it's like how do I connect to others without erasing their experience? I'm constantly reminded about how much I can't relate, how much that need to change, how my privilege blinds me and how others complain about the majority of cishet society. It's like "why should I be here? Maybe I'm right to seperate myself from them because there's no one in my irl environment that's like them. They have their space and I have mine, it'll probably hurt them less if we're only surrounded by people who are like us...."

To be honest, I understand these thoughts and why you're having them. But this is a part of your journey and the more you push it away and feel guilty over every little thing...the longer it will take for you to grow to be a good ally. Guilt and shame aren't very useful feelings here, and are still centering you, rather than the people you're trying to be an ally to. Not to say you aren't allowed to have feelings, of course you are, but that you shouldn't let them get in the way of things because then you'll overthink yourself out of real allyship. Which, btw, starts when you realize the people you want to be an ally to are just like you - they make mistakes too, and that's okay, we all do. Fear of making a mistake will keep you small, unable to step out of your comfort zone and be a good ally.

So instead of that, try reframing as "if I say the wrong things, I'll apologize properly and take accountability for any hurt caused", "how can I use the privilege I have to make things better?", "being surrounded by a monolith of people who all think and are the same isn't how you grow and learn" (by the way, queer people don't want to be around homophobic people who want to hurt us or take our rights away, for obvious reasons, but we don't mind being around cishet allies who have done the work to be a good ally. We have cishet people here as volunteers and we all love and respect each other. Being straight doesn't mean you need to stay away from queer people or feel guilt every time you're around us - again, that only makes it weird and awkward for us, because it's so clear you see us as different). Does that make sense? Let me know if you want to go into that more. <3

What does a community look like and having those discussions? Is it like frequent meetings or volunteering? I'm not an authority but rather a student. Do you know of any success stories? People who overcame their biases? Is it weird that I want to also see someone I relate to there?

This paragraph deserves attention but I don't want to make this reply too long and overwhelm you or lose important details, so how about I give a short answer to these questions, and you let me know which ones you want to expand on in our next reply?
-For starters, this. Here, Scarleteen. We are having these discussions daily with folks (feel free to browse the message boards and read some of them). The answer is longer, but this is one example.
-Volunteering is great. You can search local orgs and events near you and see who you can reach out to and offer your time to. As I said, we also have cishet volunteers here, and they are a valuable part of our team, so eventually you could even do work like this as well!
-We are all lifelong students. Some of us are given more authority than others at different times in different spaces, but we are still all students. Just an fyi so you don't let imposter syndrome get the best of you
-Yes, I know tons of success stories, and I'd even argue most if not all of us are one. Because even if we grew up with open minded parents, we learned these biases from the media, and/or places like school, church, etc. We all had to undo these (I didn't start this work until I was in my 20s, so you're not too late at all!)
-No, it makes sense you want someone you relate to in the spaces you're in. That's a very normal thing for us as humans to want, so don't get hung up on that. <3

I want to appreciate difference without tying my own feelings to it, like sometimes I think I make it about me instead of what can I learn? I think it might be easiest to learn from reading because real life people aren't obligated to teach me. I also feel like yeah, there's only so much time in the world.

YES! This is great. And while it's true queer people don't owe you emotional or mental labor, some of us do work like this because we want to help people like you, who have shown self awareness and are really trying. If you want more recommendations on things to read (aside from the many articles here on our site!), let me know, we can send you some

I know that was a lot, so please feel free to point out anything you want to go into further or get clarification on. And as a reminder, we are proud of you for doing this work that isn't always easy but is super important and worth it. <3

[pk_Gar]

"We are all different and aren't immune to society's programming of hurtful beliefs, or to black or white thinking."

How do you deal with programming that you don't even notice until someone points it out? For example, what just happened here with what I said?

"because it's so clear you see us as different"

Is there a good and bad side to this? Like it's important to acknowledge because it matters in certain conversations but not to be used as something divisive? But I see what you're saying, I feel the difference more if the topic of identity or sexuality comes up in what I read or see. I don't like or fully understand my reaction to that.

It's hard not to feel behind for not understanding. Is it normal to feel distance from others when trying to understand someone else (or is it this odd "what about me" that's uniquely a vice in itself)? I listened to someone explaining their experience and I was completely far away from that, I couldn't say anything supportive because well? I'm not like them so I was at a blank, like others who were could say more to them than I could. I get this apathetic guilt each time, even while engaging in this conversation.
"I'm unlike them, people like me are the bad guys for making others feel that way. I should be seperate myself from anyone I could potentially hurt while simultaneously being upset with folks like myself."

Why not be careful or want to avoid certain topics? I would want to be a good person before I'm ready to talk to other people just in case. It's easy to want to be alone because I'm emerging into this middle space of recognizing day to day things that doesn't sit right but not being enough to have fully undone the biases.

I say the "maybe I should stay away" because it's not really a space for me, like people should be able to have their community. Especially since there's plenty of spaces that aren't kind or friendly so with few spaces people have, why am I here??? Why not naturally meet in a gaming space or hobby space?

"let me know which ones you want to expand on in our next reply?"

I'd like expansion on the overcoming biases part.

"If you want more recommendations on things to read"

I suppose I'll take some BIPOC resources, I've falsely believed LGBTQ+ was largely non-POC or "rare" with POC because I mostly saw that culture being displayed by folks who don't look like myself/my family.

Sometimes if I come across fiction I get this "I don't see myself here, I feel isolated", it's weird and I assume that's a sign that I shouldn't be reading that and it's not for me. That feeling has kept me from becoming a fujoshi. They only read one type of media and I can't understand what drives them. There's a lot of discourse about women on that and that's part of my guilt. Feeding the "stay in my lane" mentality.

"Fear of making a mistake will keep you small, unable to step out of your comfort zone and be a good ally. "
Maybe I'm thinking too hard on this? I assume if I was in someone else's shoes I'd better understand it... (like you really feel it once you lived it and you have better knowledge from that stand point)
Moving out of comfort zone is a huge issue. I'll be honest with that, how do I reframe the self-doubt on being able to change? Does change of community really help someone who's practically got a hivemind brain of conservatism? I don't know if I need to cut ties with anyone or reformat my environment, does it do a lot?

I'm causally sitting in the same living space as my mother and she's had a sermon on saying homosexuality is bad. What do I do about the space around me or messages that are repeatedly enforced?

[maille]

Hi, there! I’ve just caught up on this thread and it seems as if you have gotten some helpful advice. I hope to add to it.

You are making great strides towards unlearning this sort of programming you are talking about. You can continue to do so by being receptive to feedback, as you are doing here, and challenging yourself and apologizing when you catch yourself, which it sounds like you have been doing.

It's a good thing to acknowledge the privilege our identities hold, so yes I see what you are getting at but I think what's being said here is that the goal is to not act in ways that continue 'othering'.

I understand the feeling of being behind in life and the reality is there will always be more to learn. I hope you find it comforting when I say you are not behind at all. There is no timeline for growth. The important part is that you are trying. I would really like to see you practice some self-compassion and patience because, unfortunately we can't flip a switch over night.

I see what you are saying about staying away, but to me, that seems like less of a tactic for understanding and more of one for self-preservation, so that you don't find yourself in situations where you accidentily have a thought rooted in beliefs you no longer want to hold. Instead, it might be helpful to integrate into welcoming spaces as an opportunity to affirm in your mind that these are just humans, doing as humans do, with no choice in their sexuality.

As far as overcoming biases, keep in mind it is very hard to control what we think. What we can control, however, is our actions. Steps like reading queer media, interacting with people different than you, and checking your biases, all things you have shown interest in by the way, are great ways to pave the path to open-mindedness.

Way to check false belief in regards to BIPOC! This is exactly what you want to be doing. I second Audre Lorde as an author, especially if you are curious about intersecting identities.

I feel as if we have given you quite a lot to think about, so I am going to leave it here, but keep up the great work and remember to be compassionate with yourself, just as you are trying to do with others.