Scarleteen

Hi there

For some background: I’m currently 21. Seven years ago I came out as bisexual. I can’t actually remember my initial sexuality crisis. I remember that it occurred, but I can’t remember the details of what prompted it, the thought process, anything. I know I used to remember it, because I have blurry memories of relaying the whole story/process to others. However, I no longer have detailed memories.

When I initially came out as bi I had a little push back from my dad, who was concerned others wouldnt understand ‘bisexual’ as an identity and would be confused by it. Because of this, I told my gran who is very old that I am lesbian, which she was receptive to. Otherwise people in my life were accepting.

A year after my initial coming out, after reading the Lesbian Masterdoc and talking with a friend, I started questioning that label. My friend pointed out that though I identified as bi, I said that I never actually wanted to date men, never felt genuine attraction to real (not fictional) or attainable men, and often described myself as disgusted or indifferent toward them. That made me wonder if I was really bisexual. Once I read the lesbian master doc I felt very validated and started identifying as and telling people I was a lesbian. For five years I’ve felt extremely comfortable and happy in this label.

However, in the past three weeks I have been spiralling in panic and distress that I am actually attracted to men and have had it wrong this whole time.

This is because I’ve realised that what I thought was compulsory heterosexuality from reading the Lesbian Masterdoc might actually be genuine attraction to men. I seen people online re-evaluate the lesbian masterdoc in recent times, breaking down how it can create lesbian false positives for bisexual women, and how it misinterprets the concept of comphet. I’ve seen lesbian women critique its depiction of comphet, saying that comphet can’t create fantasies about men, and that comphet tends to go away once a woman accepts and realises she’s into women.

I’ve also seen many posts online of lesbians questioning if they’re bisexual because of fantasies about men. This initially reassured me that I could still be lesbian, but these posts were a lot of the time followed up with posts about boyfriends or realising they are bi. This sent me back into the spiral.

I do primarily fantasise about men sexually. I really thought this was comp het, because I primarily engage in this fantasy through M/M erotica, I only think about feminine men, I’m not sure it’s even me in the fantasy bc I hate the idea of the man touching me or thinking about me as a woman, and I only think about pegging. PIV sex with a man is repulsive to me. But I still get turned on by the descriptions of the man’s body in the writing. For some strange reason, it really didn’t occur to me until recently that women could genuinely be solely attracted to very feminine, sexually submissive men, and only desire to be the penetrator. That is obviously something that is in the realm of possibility but it just never occurred to me until recently.

I have been feeling really depressed and upset about the idea that I might actually be attracted to men. I have actually cried over it a few times. I’ve never wanted to date or have sex with a guy in my daily life, and I still don’t have that desire now. But I don’t know if this is because of internalised biphobia, because I’m traumatised by men, because I’m attached to the lesbian label and don’t want to give it up or because I genuinely am a lesbian.

I have seen posts on here that were initially very comforting, which went like if you want to identify as a lesbian you can be a lesbian. But I’m just so so so scared that one day I’m going to fall in love with a man. Imagining experiencing that is so scary and horrible. And I just have this lingering, ever present dread about it. Feeling ‘attracted’ to men, if that’s what this is, feels horrible and upsetting. But again, maybe that is because a fear response is overriding everything.

I don’t know how to get rid of this dread and sadness, as it has been lingering for 4~ weeks. I just can’t get rid of the idea that most lesbians probably don’t think about men at all, or angst this much abt it, and that if I am, I’m probably a repressed bisexual who’s been traumatised by men (to clarify, I have had the typical experiences of being harassed etc, but haven’t been SA’d myself, but I had a very formative experience when I was 15 when my close friend was SA’d)

I know I am attracted to women and want to be with one. When I think about being in a relationship and who I want to be my life partner, I imagine a woman. When I think about sex with a woman I am so much more favourable to it. When I think about having sex with a man there are so many conditions (he can’t touch me, I don’t want PIV, he has to be fem in some way etc etc). I just want to be a lesbian and wish I didn’t think about/have these thoughts about men.

Sorry this is long and rambly , as I’m sure is obvious I’m a bit upset at the moment and am not writing as clear as usual. There are more details but this is already very long. What should I do?

Hi, rapidlongitude:

Thanks for reaching out. I can see how your changing emotions and desires can seem overwhelming, especially since you have made some pretty concrete decisions about your sexual orientation a couple of times. With those concrete decisions there are often labels and lifestyles associated with them that can provide stability, direction, comfortability, and overall reassurance of identity in the decisions we have made.

I want to reassure you that your questioning is perfectly okay, natural, and does not need to be a crisis. In fact, I think its something that most people (whether you are straight, lesbian, bi) do at some point, even if you thought you were a certain orientation or made a definitive decision at one point. If gender truly is fluid (and we acknowledge it as such as Scarleteen), then we don't have to be afraid to lean into that fluidity or rethink some of the prescriptions around labels.

Perhaps you are or may one day be attracted to men. What about that scares you? Attraction does not necessarily lead to behavioral or identity changes. Can you see yourself opening up any label-based rules for yourself and allow more fluidity?

I found an article that is a really great one about orientation questioning that you might find helpful: https://www.scarleteen.com/read/identity/q-questioning

Perhaps you are or may one day be attracted to men. What about that scares you?

It’s hard for me to articulate, but I feel this dread and fear surrounding it. I feel a revulsion when I imagine myself in a relationship with a man, or kissing one. I thought this meant I was lesbian, but I don’t know if it is related to trauma from my friend getting SA’d instead. When I imagine a future where I am attracted to a man I feel trapped, scared and unhappy. As I mentioned, I have been intermittently crying about this throughout the past few weeks. Sorry that I am not able to articulate it more clearly, I don’t know how to understand where my disgust/revulsion comes from, as in I’m not sure what steps to take to figure out if this revulsion is due to lesbianism or due to trauma. My thought process is that surely if I can be attracted to fictional men in my head, then this disgust must be trauma-related and something to be worked through. I don’t know. If you have any advice on how I can figure out this distinction I would appreciate that.

Can you see yourself opening up any label-based rules for yourself and allow more fluidity?

I have complex feelings about this as well. I no longer feel comfortable claiming the lesbian label, because my men-related sexual fantasies (that I no longer am sure I can conceptualise as comp het) make me feel like a fake lesbian. But I have resistance and sadness to going back to being unlabelled or queer. To be clear I love the word queer and I don’t think being unlabelled is a bad thing, but I feel a deep sadness and grief about the five years of comfort, stability and happiness I had as a lesbian. I want that certainty and happiness back. And for these 4 weeks I’ve just felt not like that at all. I’ve felt anxious, unsafe and invalidated. I’m pretty sure I’m going to go back to telling people that I’m bisexual or queer since those labels are a bit more expansive and I don’t want to feel like a liar, but the thought of telling my friend group I’m not a lesbian anymore makes me so sad. I just don’t want to be a person who’s attracted to men and has the potential to be with men.


Edit: sorry if forgot to mention, but thank you for the article. Reading the testimonies helped and the questions to ask yourself are helpful.

Do you feel like there’s a “right answer” when it comes to your orientation, only one acceptable answer, according to others or to myself? Do you feel afraid of having certain answers which may be what’s true for you, but which you or others feel are wrong, immoral, sinful or otherwise unacceptable? If you can acknowledge it’s possible your orientation is someone else’s or your “wrong” answer, and open up the spectrum in your mind a bit more even though it might be scary, what does your possible orientation look like then?

This section in particular. It makes me uncomfortable and unhappy to think about, but I think the question is very pertinent to me, because I do feel that any able that isn’t lesbian is the ‘wrong’ answer for me. Opening up the spectrum in my mind, my sexuality might be more bisexual, with a preference for feminine men. But it hard for me to conceptualise an attraction to men that has so many conditions on it. Bisexual also feels wrong.

Hey rapidlongitude, I was reading your posts earlier and have been thinking about you this evening.

Just to do a bit of checking in here, these are words you are using to describe (potentially) being attracted to men:

repulsive
depressed
upset
traumatised
scary
horrible
dread
fear
revulsion

How does seeing those listed feel to you?

I have a take here. I think the notion of “comphet” has stressed a lot of folks out. Most of us operate in cultures where heterosexuality is the norm, and thus, we might feel obliged to play along to the norm. But we don’t need to dissect/categorize/pathologize every passing attraction we feel as either being due to cultural conditioning or true and therefore representative of who we are.

I think that regardless if your attraction to men is “true” or not (which I don’t think anyone could ever know! It isn’t a diagnosis), I see some pretty glaring signs that you do not want to date or have sex with men. Even if you feel occasional attraction to men, you get to choose what type of relationships and sex you pursue. Is it comforting to know that you never have to be with a man?

It seems like being a lesbian and having that language to describe yourself is very important, and brings you empowerment and comfort. I’ve heard from friends and users here alike that it can feel like a violation to call oneself a lesbian if you aren’t “really,” and there is certainly much more cultural contention around this than other labels. But I don’t think it is “lying” to identify with a social and cultural category that best fits you and the way you want to live your life. What do you think?

Hi there Mikky,

Thank you for your reply, it was very comforting. Seeing the list laid out like that felt very much like touching reality. In my spiral my thought process gets so complicated that stepping back and seeing the fuller picture of the list of words really put things in perspective. It’s true I do feel all those things in that list about men and that doesn’t seem very bisexual or straight to me. The idea that I never have to be with a man ever, is extremely comforting. That’s the way I want things to be. I feel strongly about women and love the feeling of being attracted to and being attractive to them and being close to them.

Do you have any advice on how I can prevent myself from spiralling again and falling into unnecessary thought spirals about my sexuality? I am aware that is it not something that is useful to dwell on and I want to avoid the anxiety/dread associated with it.

Hi Rapidlongitude, I'm happy to hear Mikky's response helped you feel better! Since I'm on shift, I hope it is alright that I am responding to your post for now--I'll ask them to check in on this thread when they are in.

I do agree with Mikky-- if you only want to pursue relationships with women, the word 'lesbian' seems like a good and accurate way to describe yourself. The fantasies that you have involving men do not make you any less of a lesbian. I promise, it is not unusual for people to have fantasies that are very distant from what they actually enjoy in real life. Fantasies may inform how you understand your sexuality, but they do not have to define it.

When I'm in the middle of a thought spiral, it isn't always easy for me to reassure myself on my own, especially in the beginning... If it would help to look at during a spiral, you could save notes of the parts of this conversation that helped you feel better. I also want to share these resources on self-management for stress and anxiety. They list a few different approaches, so you can see which ones work for you:

• Beyond Blue: 10 Anxiety Management Strategies

• Anxiety information and self-help at NHS Inform

Hey there, I want to add something that might help.

Orientation is about who we are attracted TO and want to be with, not who we do NOT want to be with. So, figuring out if you are lesbian — and if that term feels right for you — is something where what you need to think about is how you feel about women. It has nothing to do with how you feel about men, JUST how you feel about women.

If a comparison helps, it would be like if you were trying to figure out if you liked apples or not: you’d think about apples, not about oranges, because oranges have nothing to do with your feelings about apples.

Orientation is about who we are attracted TO and want to be with, not who we do NOT want to be with. So, figuring out if you are lesbian — and if that term feels right for you — is something where what you need to think about is how you feel about women.

Hi Heather, thanks for your reply. I know I definitely am attracted to women. I’ve had relationships with women in the past and currently have a crush on one of my friends.

When I get in my spiral I can get so in my head, and worry that these feelings were confused platonic feelings. My brain gets convinced this is the case, even though I know it isn’t. I’m autistic and so because of that I have trouble recalling and feeling what I’ve felt in the past. If it’s not something I am currently experiencing/feeling I feel emotionally disconnected to it even though I know intellectually what I was feeling.

However, even though I can’t ‘connect’ to the feeling now I know that 2 weeks ago I left a hang out with my friend I’m crushing on completely convinced and certain that I’m attracted to women, and I remember that I felt strongly about her. So I intellectually don’t doubt my feelings.

I also remember that when I switched my label to lesbian originally it was partially because I didn’t have strong feelings for men. I was either indifferent or mildly put off by the idea of being with them. Whereas I was certain about my feelings for women.

Edit: I think that the autism but also the aroace spectrum aspect of all this can make it difficult to find that grounding of loving apples, since overall I don’t experience attraction that often. With my crush, it’s that when I’m with her I feel very strongly, and when I’m not with her it’s out of sight out of mind (I hear this is a common experience of crushes for people with adhd).

Many other queer women are very u-haul and completely rhapsodic about women and how hot they are, which I can relate to, but very rarely, and usually only after I’ve developed a long and deep friendship with a girl. It’s hard for me to look at a random girl who I don’t know and feel like I want a relationship with her/have sex with her etc (though it has happened occasionally before)

I think the fact that I don’t relate to allosexual sapphics add to my insecurity, since my experience doesn’t match the group ‘norm’, but I’m aware that I don’t have to fit that idea of what a lesbian looks like

Thanks for your replies everyone, it’s has helped me do more introspection and feel calmer

Hi there Latha,

Thank you for your reply. I feel so much more calmer now and secure in my lesbian identity. I will definitely be saving bits of these conversations to look back at if I slip back into the spiral, because they have been comforting, and helped me with seeing things clearer.

I think rather than worrying broadly about my sexuality, it helps more to just connect with my love of women and focus on how good and happy and excited that makes me feel.

I also just want to say that I’m amazed, grateful and deeply thankful that a resource like Scarleteen exists! I only discovered it recently and have been browsing the posts and it would have been so useful and comforting to have when I first went through my initial sexuality crisis (though I can’t remember most of it, I remember that I googled a lot).

The staff and volunteers always have such thoughtful, considerate and kind responses! I’ve learnt so much, and have reframed a lot of my thinking about queerness and relationships.

So thank you to Heather and the staff and volunteers for making Scarleteen happen and creating such a great resource

rapidlongitude,

I think you have done a great job reframing your thoughts about attraction!
AND
I am so glad you have found Scarleteen to be a useful resource. We will always be here for you!