Discomfort with subjects surrounding sex

[Seraph]

Hello, for the longest time I have had a lot of discomfort with multiple subjects surroundng sex. I apologize if my issues don't fit on this forum or if I ask too much.

The idea of having sex has made me feel uncomfortable and even guilty at times. I am a hetero guy and the idea of initiating sex with a woman makes me feel evil. I feel like, even though I would only try to initiate sex in a 100% consensual situation, I am taking advantage of whoever I'm asking. Furthermore, the idea of a woman asking me if I would like to engage in sexual activity borderline terrifying. I have a feeling that its a moral obligation to reject any advances. Its gotten to a point where even saying the word sex outloud makes me pretty uncomfortable. Part of me wonders if this stems from inadequate sex education, the state that I live in (MI) requires abstinence only sex education.

similar to the paragraph above, I have a few fantasies that I worry are immoral. Sometimes I fantasize about receiving oral sex. I feel wrong about wishing for this because I've talked to people online who've shared that they believe that men asking for women to preform oral sex on them (even if its consensual) to be an incredibly misogynstic. part of me fears that I'm sexist for believing that because I am infantilizing women.

lastly, fear that I have developed or at some point will develop some form of pornography and/or masturbation addiction. I feel immense guilt whenever I view porn or pleasure myself. In general I feel gross, but I also feel terrible about directly viewing content made by a terribly explotative industry. I also worry that if I engage with too much pornography may develop a "problematic" fetish (I think kinkshaming is terrible and I really hope this doesn't come off as that). I fear that I may develope a fetish that enforces misogynstic patriarchal ideas (something that I would never want to do) such as a kink involving a submissive and dominant position.

Sorry if this is a total mess I'm writing very late at night/very early in the morning so I'm really tired. If I've asked too much or this doesn't really fit on this forum I totally understand.

[Latha]

Hi there, Seraph--welcome to the boards!

Don't worry, this is a good place for your questions, and you haven't asked too much. I'm hearing that you are feeling a lot of concern around the effect that you, as a guy, could have on your partners because of your awareness of the pressures women can feel living in misogynistic environments. We're happy to talk through this with you.

It is quite possible that the guilt and shame you are feeling around sex with women is related to things you've been taught in the past. Abstinence-only education can send messages that there is something corrupting and damaging about sex, when it really just is a normal activity--one that may have some risks that we have to be prepared to mitigate, but also can be pleasurable and beneficial in many ways when everyone involved respects each other.

To respond to the first part of your post: I see you've talked to some people who are against men asking women to perform oral sex because they think it is misogynistic. Have you ever had the chance to hear from feminists who don't believe that, or from women who enjoy this activity and want to do it with their partners?

Because it is important to recognize that last bit: that women can want to perform oral sex. If you did this with a partner, it wouldn't have to be something you are forcing on her, where you gain and she loses. Plainly, many people like oral sex, and being able to do something that makes your partner feel good can also feel very pleasurable in its own right. I want to suggest that the impression that some people have about oral sex being immoral or degrading has less to do with the activity itself, and more to do with how people have decided to think about it, culturally. It is good to be aware of that so you can be careful about not replicating those dynamics, but that doesn't mean you would be hurting a partner just by asking for this. Your fantasies are not immoral.

Do you think re-framing sex as something you and a partner find pleasure in together would help you feel better about all this?

[Seraph]

Thank you for responding to my post! To answer your question I never really knew that some women enjoyed engaging in oral sex like that. I would like to tha k you for the advice that you gave me about re-framing my thoughts on sex. I always looked at it as something that, when between a man and a woman, would come at some expense to the woman. I never considered that an axt like providing oral sex would be pleasurable to a woman in that way. Next time mt worries about this get to me ill definitely try to reframe my thinking this way

[Latha]

You are welcome, Seraph! I'm glad I could help. <3

To address the other part of your post: I'm hearing that you are concerned about your relationship with masturbation and pornography. It sounds like you are feeling guilty about engaging with these too much, and worried about the way they could affect your sexuality generally. I have some thoughts about all this that I hope will help you feel better:

The first thing I'll say is that we don't usually use the framework of addiction to describe the problems that people can have with pornography and masturbation, because we find that it often communicate that there is (a very limited) right way to engage with sex as an activity, and that you have to monitor yourself to make sure you don't want sex in the wrong way. There isn't anything wrong with masturbating and watching pornography--if it isn't getting in the way of the other things you want to do in life, I don't think that there can be a problem.

When people tell us that they are addicted to sex, I'll tell you that the problem is hardly ever the activity itself. Rather, there is some other aspect. Sometimes it is shame. I believe there has been a study that suggested that people who say they have an addiction to pornography don't actually watch porn more than other people, but they do feel more guilt about what they do. That leads them to misestimate their own actions and feel out of control. As another reason, sometimes, the physical pleasure that sex provides can be a momentary distraction from feelings like anxiety--it is a coping mechanism. Sex is the most visible part of this cycle, but focusing on it doesn't address the root problem.

Considering that, do you feel still feel concerned about how often you engage with pornography and masturbation?

I see how watching porn produced under dubious conditions would make you feel terrible--you don't want to contribute to a bad system. Do you think you would feel better about pornography if you engaged with and supported ethical and feminist porn? By that, I mean porn that is produced in a way that treats and compensates everyone involved fairly, and that might be made with a particular view towards avoiding the kinds of harmful narratives and standards that pervade the rest of the industry. Because if your main concern is exploitation, you do have other options.

Let's talk about the idea that dominance and submission reinforces the patriarchy for a moment. It is true that people can engage with this dynamic because they have misogynistic beliefs about what men and women are and what they owe to each other. For men who use this dynamic abusively (which is what you are worried about, I think) dominance and submission during sex is just an extension of the dynamic they expect from women everywhere else. They don't approve of women having preferences otherwise, because they think women being subservient to them is the natural order of the world.

I see why you would never want to do that--you don't have to. But I want to point out that that isn't the only reason why a person might be interested in this dynamic. To think of a few: some people feel relaxed when they don't have to make decisions, or they might feel safer when they're in a predictable situation. And in the same way someone might enjoy going to haunted houses despite not wanting to be in a situation where they actually fear for their life, people can incorporate seemingly misogynistic or otherwise prejudiced concepts into the sex they have to safely play with things that would scare them otherwise. People are so diverse and complex in their motivations that an activity or dynamic like dominance/submission can never mean only one thing. Does that make sense?

On that note, you might have noticed that I haven't yet used the words 'kink' or 'fetish' to describe your concerns. That is intentional. Words like kink and fetish can draw a line that defines certain kinds of sex as normal/acceptable/healthy, while marking others as deviant or wrong. That is the kind of thing that makes people feel ashamed, and someone interested in sex education, I think it is so important to do what we can to help people feel less of that. You haven't done wrong by using these words, but I'd like to ask that we try to talk about these subjects differently, especially if it would help you feel better about your sexuality.

I should add that the word 'fetish' does have a particular definition: as an object that has to be present in order for someone to experience sexual arousal. I don't think that applies to anything you've said about yourself so far, but it isn't something terrible that you would have to fear anyway. It is just a quirk of how some people work.

I fear that I may develope a fetish that enforces misogynstic patriarchal ideas...

Hypothetically, let's say you do develop an interest that goes against your values for some reason: maybe it is pleasurable in the moment, but you don't like how you feel afterwards. Maybe it would be impractical or unsafe in real life. None of this would mean you are a bad person, and it would not be the end of the world. Just because you've developed an interest, that doesn't mean you will lose control over your actions. You can decide that a fantasy isn't for you because of mixed feelings, and focus on other interests. And sometimes we realize that our fantasies are better in theory than in reality, and that is also okay.

How does all of this land with you?

P.S. I really appreciate that you don't like kinkshaming, but it seems like you are feeling so much guilt over your own sexuality. Please take your commitment to not shaming other people and extend it to yourself as well. You have nothing to be ashamed of.

[Seraph]

Thank you for responding to my post.

First I would like to thank you for pointing out how my word choice of kink and fetish could come across as possibly hurtful, I never realized that that could be the case so I will make sure to avboid using those words in the future. when it comes to masturbation addiction I have heard from sources that it is real but I've also read sources in a few places that say its not real so thank you for helping me clear it up.

On the topic of pornography, I always thought that pornography was inherently explotative and that there was no way for it too be positively created. I was taught: 1) because porn, even if ethically created, still would still contribute to the overall industry, and 2) even if the pornography was ethically created it would still be misogynistic because consent can't be bought and any form of payment would make it a form of sexual explotation (even though actors in pornography should 100% recieve payment for their work creating a weird paradox).

Finally, I never conisdered that power dymanics and sex could be pleasurable in that way. A vast majority of my exposure to that stuff has been from people making out those dynamics to misogynistic which I suppose is where I get my ideas on it from. I was under the impressions that somebody in a submissive role wouldn't be able to feel pleasure.

Thank you again for taking time to write a response to my post!

[Andy]

Hi Seraph!

First of all, I’m really glad to hear Latha’s answer was helpful and that the explanation of why we prefer to avoid words like kink or fetish makes sense to you. It is a perspective I’ve encountered only when I started volunteering here and I really like it!

As for the pornography, I think part of why it is often presented as simply inherently bad or explotative, might be that in these times of social media, education and information are often very simplified and shortened in order to be able to fit the short and captivating formats. Secondly, abstinence-only education considers sex itself wrong so anything related to it, including pornography, gets that label too.
The truth is, the reality is much more complicated. While there has always been and unfortunately still often is abuse and exploitation connected to sex work, it is not the type of work itself that is making it like that, it is those people in it that care more about their money than the workers and their rights. As for the money for sex = explotation, I see it differently. For me, consent for sex is a completely different part of the process than the money transaction. Just like a hairdresser might enjoy the work they do, do it willingly and still get paid for it, the sex workers can have it the same. When you take out the "sex=harm" from the equation, things often start looking differently!

But what I think is better than any of my explanation is hearing the people that this is about themselves. We have these two interviews with sex workers that might give you a new perspective on sex work in general:
An Interview With Jiz Lee
https://www.scarleteen.com/read/culture ... ate-dadamo

Let us know if those stir up some more thoughts or questions, we are always happy to talk about those with you!

And I’m also glad you were able to talk about how people experience pleasure and that it is much more varied! I think the rule of thumb can be that it is not sex, sexual activities, dynamics or interests themselves that is inherently misogynistic (or hateful in other ways), it is the people engaging in them that can make them be. Does that make sense?

[Seraph]

Thanks for responding!

First off thank you for the articles. I've taken time to read both articles and I really enjoyed hearing about and learning from a different perspective that what I am used too.

If I'm being honest, this thread has shown me that I haven't really been considering the full picture for a lot of these problems. Most of the time I was just considering the opinions of the people against sex work, pornonography, and any sex act that they might deem as "transgresssive" but I never gave time to really consider the opinions of people on the other side. As you pointed out in your last paragraph, its not the sex acts that are misogynistic but the people who use them to enforce their misogynstic beliefs.

Although not all of my sex related anxieties are gone now (gotta love GAD) but the responses I've gotten have helped make me feel less uncomfortable when I feel any sort of sexual desire!

[HannahP]

That's great to hear, Seraph! I notice that a lot of our users are anxious about sex and their sexuality when they're thinking of it in an abstract way, like thinking about what sex with a hypothetical future partner might be like. I completely relate to this! But I think that sometimes the abstractness adds to the anxiety, because you can't get any feedback from a hypothetical person, you know? If you were navigating your sexuality with a specific partner, you'd hopefully be getting a lot of direct feedback from her about what she likes and doesn't like and you would be figuring out what you like and don't like and that would allow you to build a good sexual relationship together.