Demolition Part 2

[pk_Gar]

Hello, I'm back again. In my last post, I wanted to talk about my conscious and unconscious programming.

Now, I'm curious, since I heard in the last post that some cisgender heterosexuals are also volunteers?

I **really** want to know what kind of "unpacking" you did. What did you want to learn, how did you start on your journey? Through working here, to understand your identity and your relationship with the world and others? What about how you detach yourself from guilt and self centered emotions, to be selfless and empathetic?

Also, if you don't like the traditional script: If you are cisgender heterosexual, how do you cope? How do you escape? How do you reconcile with privilege? What steps did you take to become a safe, respectful person and a worthy ally?

Do you avoid living a rigid life in how you express yourself? How, if you're cishet? (My IRL surroundings don't even tolerate dressing differently.... I doubt I gain anything from restrictive views.) If you express unconventionally, what is that like? How do you deal with any conflict regarding unrestricted expression???

I have a lot of questions, but the core of this is... traditionalism and the status quo feel inescapable in mind and body if I technically fit the narrative. I don't want to believe in things that aren't true, but I feel that even though I need to unlearn it, I turn inward and ask, "What is left for me if everything I believed wasn't true? I can't opt out can I? X behavior doesn't mean that I have to do it. X belief means that others don't have to restrict themselves. Who am I now that I learned this? I've arrived at cishet again, but do I have the ability to drop the script too? Or is it just for people who don't fit the narrative? Do I have accept it?"

Other than that, I wanted to hear about others experiences. It doesn't have to be exactly about what I said, but reading Awakening the Master Masculine/Feminine and Mars/Venus books left an odd taste. I thought I should be grateful, though, because it's technically about me....

[Straif]

Hi pk_Gar,

I honestly don't know whether we have any cishet volunteers, but all of us have still had to unpack the great questions you are asking. (We all get the same heteronormative programming, even if we are queer and/or trans.) I'm both, but I will offer what insights I can and leave it up to other folks to chime in, too.

The best advice I got about starting the unpacking "journey" probably came from an activist named Renee Bracey Sherman, who was speaking on a panel called Why Returning to Roe Isn't the Answer One of the other panelists, Dr. Sara Kaplan, introduced the idea of "the police inside our heads," which is basically about how we all internalize those status quo narratives you were talking about. At the end of the panel, she asked Renee Bracey Sherman how people can "do the work" to unlearn harmful narratives. She said three things:

Step One: Do some self-reflection, so you can identify how you might be unconsciously policing your own and other people's behavior. Congratulations! You've already completed step one. (Okay, it's never really complete because the kind of growth you describe is an ongoing journey, but you are starting from such a great place with your thoughts in this post.)

Step Two: Read a book. Renee Bracey Sherman pointed out that some of the most radical ideas in the abortion rights movement are actually older than Roe, and that history gets forgotten if folks aren't doing their research and just sharing quick takes on TikTok. Scarleteen is a great place to do your reading and to ask for recommendations.
Proceed with compassion and curiosity because you might find some of the what they say unfamiliar or or their tone off-putting. Try to see that as a sign the police in your head are going on alert, and use it as an opportunity to kick off the hardest part of unpacking, which is:

Step Three: Challenge yourself and stay humble-- assume you don't know what you don't know, which is why the reading/listening part is so important. This isn't just how you act like an ally, it's also how you find where you might be limiting yourself. As you engage with unfamiliar ideas, keep asking yourself some questions like:

1. What are the assumptions I have about ______?
2. What are the experiences that led to these assumptions?
3. How can I turn these assumptions into questions?

I'll get a little vulnerable here and use myself as an example for the process:

Step One: I noticed myself being reluctant to engage with your post because I assumed you thought it wasn't worth engaging with someone like me, and you only wanted to talk to other cis/het women.

Step Two: I read what you said carefully, knowing that my first reaction had nothing to do with you. And I'm so glad I did because your post is so lovely and thoughtful! I would have really missed out if I hadn't taken the time.

Step Three: I realized my assumption was definitely rooted in experiences where I feel like I don't fit in with either men or women. Indeed, it had nothing to do with you! When I realized that, I got excited to engage with you because we probably have a lot we can learn from each other. I think you've started a great conversation here, and I am super curious to hear how you and other folks respond.

Okay, I've gone on long enough, but I want to leave you with this before ending on more questions and resources you might find helpful:

Unpacking cultural narratives and their effects on us is lifelong process, and it's not always comfortable, so it's important to find supportive spaces. Here's how I have found those spaces:

1. Ask, "Are there safe people in your life who might also thinking about these questions?" It sounds like you're feeling pretty isolated, but you might find folks surprise you. As you know, a lot of cis/het people have never had to think about these questions but being willing to try is a green flag in my book.

2. Another good place to engage with these kinds of questions is obviously here with us. Yay!

3. Depending on your location and insurance situation, I also recommend seeking out a counselor. (We might be able to give you some guidance on this front if you need it.) As with any important relationship in your life, don't be afraid to "date around" and ask counselors about these kinds of questions. (You could even bring your post with you.) Just like other relationships, how they answer will probably tell you a lot about whether they are a good fit for you.

4. In the meantime, there's nothing stopping you from reading and asking questions. (Do you like journaling? That's been a big help to me.)

Things to Read and Questions To Ask:

1. Pretty much anything on Scarleteen I bet other volunteers will get in here and suggest some good ones.

2. Dr. Emily Nagoski. She's written two really great, popular books that you might be able to find in your local library. They might even have them as e-books or an audiobooks you can download. I consume most of my non-fiction as audiobooks when I'm commuting, walking the dog, or doing chores around the house. If you haven't tried it, I highly recommend giving it a go, especially if you have trouble sitting down to read. She also has a substack and a bunch of interviews available on her Web site

3. Speaking of listening, there are so many people doing such great work on podcasts that you can listen to for free. One of my favorites is Sex Out Loud

4. Sexual Citizens by Jennifer Hirsch and Seamus Khan This is another book you might be able to get from the library and/or they have links to lots of articles and podcasts they've contributed to on their web site. They have these really cool concepts that helped me reframe my thinking about sex and consent:

a. "Sexual Citizenship," which means recognizing and respecting our own and other people's rights to make decisions about what they do with their bodies.

b. "Sexual Geographies," which means thinking about how our environments affect power dynamics we might not be aware of. (Whose house are you at, for example? Who drove to a location?)

c. "Sexual Projects," which means thinking about why we want to have sex. Most people don't really think about this consciously, but it tends to be the biggest cause of unintentionally harming someone you're having sex with. Be honest with yourself: Why do you want to have sex? Why do you want to have sex with a particular person? Are you just looking for pleasure? How about connection? What kind of connection? Are you looking for an ego boost or to feel in control? And don't be afraid to ask folks the same question: "Why do you want to have sex with me?" can be a sexy conversation starter AND an opportunity to find out if you and the other person have compatible interests.

5. Last book to look for in the library and/or check out her articles and interviews: Ace: What Asexuality Reveals About Desire, Society, and the Meaning of Sex by Angela Chen. As the title suggests, her work is really great even if you aren't asexual because it helps us challenge how we think about those big ideas.


Obviously, you got me thinking a LOT. Thank you! I hope this gives you some good starting places on your journey, and I'm really interested to see what you and other folks have to say. Be easy on yourself and others on this road. Growth is never ending, but that's not a bad thing.

[maille]

Hey there!

I remember Demolition Part 1. Welcome back! For some context I am writing to you as a cis and bisexual/queer woman. And as it turns out rereading my reply, a very public health perspective.

As someone who studies public health, I became really interested in the root causes of violations of sexual and reproductive rights, which includes the disregard for women's autonomy in general. You could say my motives were not all that altruistic at first. They were partly academic and partly motivated by answers I was seeking to speak for my experiences.

What I found, which is true of any social injustice I can think of, is that the more underrepresented a population, the harsher the effects of the injustice are on them. For instance, when it comes to partner violence, queer couples are really not at the forefront of that research, and therefore not at the forefront of any programming created to alleviate partner violence. In my experience, even less talked about than differing sexual orientation, is differing gender identities.

One of the key principles of public health programming, I know I keep bringing up this field but it is the lens in which I experience the world lol, is that the community you aim to impact needs to be at the forefront of conversations surrounding needs because they know themselves best. Does that make sense?

The idea that a community may have more answers than someone who studies said community was kind of a hard pill to swallow for me, but text books can only give you so much perspective. I think admitting that you don't know is key, and in my situation that looks like not knowing about the experience of being someone who identifies as anything different than cis. I don't know and that is okay. My first instinct when I realized this was to put the burden of my ignorance on trans folks. Well, now educate me, I nearly demanded of their community. That wasn't the right call either. Yes, I have learned so much through others lending their time to educate me, but also there are resources out there to seek on your own, Scarleteen being a huge one.

I know this was not a clean and clear step by step guide on how to undo we've been fed, but I hope this gives you a little insight to another cis person's experience navigating their own ignorance. Thanks for inviting me to look inward!

[pk_Gar]

Hello, thank you for your replies! I wanted to respond to a part of the second post.

I mentioned a specific identity because that's the only one I have experience with. In searching for similar paths, I know the same information doesn't apply to every identity. I didn't want to assume others would take the same process; I chose the safer, more familiar option and asked detailed questions. I often see people with my identity seem completely unquestioning in life, accepting things unconsciously. This happens frequently, with people feeling they must follow expectations without questioning themselves or others to test what they're led to believe.

I understand that focusing on one existence that others do not identify with is exclusive in its framing … This question is open to anyone who has an answer! The second part is generally about hearing about other people's experiences dealing with this issue.

Thanks again for your posts.

[maille]

I don't think your query came off exclusionary, we just don't seem to have any cishet volunteers (that I know of) currently! I hope my answer (from a cis person) gave you a perspective to think about. Congrats on doing the hard work and examining your own beliefs!

[Straif]

I want to chime in and say I agree completely with Maille that I don't think you were being exclusionary, and your self-awareness around that possibility says lots of good things about you. I only mentioned my hesitation to respond as an illustration of how previous experiences can inhibit our ability to engage in good faith-- until you become aware of them. I've found that once you bring the root of your discomfort "above the line" of your consciousness, it enriches the conversation rather than shutting it down. I'm so glad for the opportunity to engage with different perspectives, and it's refreshing to see cis/het people willing to listen and share. Like I said in my post, we have so much to learn from each other. Thank you.

[pk_Gar]

Okay thank you for the replies.

The mention of a counselor.... how do I find one who's LGBTQ friendly? I don't want a reinforcement of what I want to unlearn. I noticed that there's a lot of levels to this, even among people who "know" but it only stops there and that become the assumption in itself. For example, "oh these specific people are like...". Humans are fluid, I don't want to conceptualize a person's experience (especially when reading books) or make mental rules to box people in with new terms. I don't want to be... treating others as if they were eggshells, so to speak for lack of a better word. I often find myself seeing it as a different culture of people I'm learning about. How do you not hyper focus or fixate inadvertently sensationalizing others?

How do I accept the discomfort of not being able to understand someone no matter what I already know? I understand the learning to know part, but there's more to it: sometimes people exist outside known possibilities. I want to be comfortable with never understanding on an even deeper level. Perhaps a subjectivity acception. There might be people who aren't even understood by their own community.

How do I become a safe person to connect with others? To build better empathy? How can this possible in every context not just "this is my nice mask when engaging with people but deep down..."? What would be the difference between sympathy and empathy in this context? How did you avoid pitying others?

When the time comes to defend others or shut down the causal -phobia (be it any LGBTQ type that harms others), how do you handle it? It's really hard to see people I know be so easy to say mean things or they watch shows with that type of content. Bystander syndrome?

Did unpacking ever affect you on a personal self esteem or insecurities level? How do you sever strong personal feelings with understanding a truth?

Do you ever reconcile with where you stand in the world (building a moral code and standing by it for example)? Did you ever struggle with thinking in binaries?

Were you met with things that were hard to let go? Things that may have unexpectedly changed your life? Like major life decisions outside of changing a mindset? Perhaps choosing to no longer support something or pivot to a self restart? Do you get mixed reactions from people? Lose any friends because of different attitudes?

Maybe a strange question but how do remain in student mode? I noticed that others like me may find it hard that some things are not about them or feel turned off because of a zero-sum level of thinking. While others different from them had to live with exclusions their whole life to the point that they unfortunately expect to be excluded first but their reaction isn't unfounded.

How can I recognize that other's experiences aren't a "new thing"? To know about people who's always been around since the dawn of time. Many people go unnamed or unheard about.

Is it worth going into the academic side like sociology or gender studies to be intensely equipped?

Did you ever have to unlearn "bridging", like trying to relate your experience to an unexperience you never lived? A call to avoid being unintentionally insensitive. "I felt like that with X" even though one cannot simply compare or think that some experiences are the same thing.

How do you engage with fiction and entertainment? Do you avoid projecting? Do you engage with what's familiar? Do you stick to real world research only for content about people different than you?

Hopefully these aren't redundant!

[pk_Gar]

Also, I'm confused about bring up the topic of sex other than bodily respect. Does it tie in with unlearning things about non-cishet identities? I ask because it was unexpected now that I'm rereading it.

Oh additional, US specific! I'm old enough to vote now and I haven't thought about it deeply. What choices can I make that are thoughtful for others? Systemic structures heavily impact others and I want to broadly be conscious of my decisions.

[Latha]

Hi pk_Gar!

These are good questions! I'll answer a few, and I'll also ask everyone else to check in here and share their thoughts.

The mention of a counselor.... how do I find one who's LGBTQ friendly?

I have to appreciate your focus on unlearning any biases you have, and on learning to be a good ally. Counselors will often mention that they are lgbtq-friendly, sex-positive, or have expertise in issues relating to gender and sexuality on their professional profiles or in their websites. There are directories online that will list therapists who work where you live. Here is an example: Psychologist Locator | APA. You can find others by searching for something like [lgbtq friendly] therapists in [your location]

How do you not hyper focus or fixate inadvertently sensationalizing others?

I think something that can help is getting familiar with with a diversity of perspectives from a marginalized group. Getting to know people personally, as people, is probably the more effective way of doing this. That way, you don't just have one example for how someone from that group can be. By being an ally and friend, you will know them as regular people, who like you, have their joys and their sorrows. Even where their lives might be different from yours because of their identity, that can become a normal part of your model of how people are with experience.

If you find that you can't get to know people from a group personally, engaging intentionally with media by and for these groups can also help--empathy and compassion can work in surprising ways to normalize things that are unfamiliar in your mind.

I'm old enough to vote now and I haven't thought about it deeply. What choices can I make that are thoughtful for others?

I'm not an expert on politics, but I've heard that it can help to pay attention to election campaigns early and look into to voting in primaries. The most progressive candidates don't always make it to the main elections because they are not believed to have enough support to win. Showing support sooner can change that.

It can also help to pay attention to the candidates for smaller, local elections--they are the ones who have power where you live, and so their decisions can determine a lot of what day-to-day life is like for marginalized people.

[Straif]

Hi Again!

Latha did a great job answering your questions, but I'll add a few things in case they are also helpful.

1. In terms of finding a counselor who is LGBTQ friendly, Latha's resource is a good one, but you can also check out the Referral Directory for the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists.

2. Accepting discomfort:

I recently got some good advice from one of my favorite essayists, Gwenna Laithland. (She's on most social media platforms as Momma Cusses.) I can't find the exact video, but what really struck me was her saying, "You don't need to understand someone to support them." What really matters is doing everything you can to support folks even if you can't always understand where they are coming from. And, guess what? You're already doing that!

3. Empathy:

Empathy is a skill like any other, and it's not one that gets modeled in healthy ways. Mindfulness and self-reflection are great strategies to develop empathy because often the first person we need to practice it for is ourselves. If you want to be genuine, build relationships with people-- you'll find your advocacy comes from a place of fierce love when you have those connections.

4. Shutting down casual "isms" can be difficult. I find it's important to focus on your decisions in any given moment. You may not say the exact right thing, and you may not reach a person who has been deeply indoctrinated, but you can still act in good faith and with good intention. (And I am a big believer that intention DOES matter, so long as you're willing to apologize if your good-intentioned actions end up harming someone-- often for reasons that have more to do with a million of their previous experiences with people who are less well-intentioned.)

5. Yes, unpacking affects my self-esteem and insecurities sometimes. But sometimes we have to accept that we are going to have strong personal feelings about something. (This is definitely a good moment to come back to Renee Bracey Sherman's advice from my first post.)

6. As for thinking in binaries, my problems are mostly caused by the fact that my brain isn't wired that way and sometimes it seems like everyone else's is. But that doesn't mean I resent folks who have been conditioned to think in binaries, so long as they're willing to check themselves when they find it affecting their judgements and actions. (Again, come back to Renee Bracey Sherman's advice there.)

"Were you met with things that were hard to let go? Things that may have unexpectedly changed your life? Like major life decisions outside of changing a mindset? Perhaps choosing to no longer support something or pivot to a self restart? Do you get mixed reactions from people? Lose any friends because of different attitudes?"

Yes to all of these.

Maybe a strange question but how do remain in student mode? I noticed that others like me may find it hard that some things are not about them or feel turned off because of a zero-sum level of thinking. While others different from them had to live with exclusions their whole life to the point that they unfortunately expect to be excluded first but their reaction isn't unfounded.

Staying in "student" mode may not be the most helpful way to think about unpacking for you if you have baggage about what it means to be a student. (I say this as a teacher myself.) Instead, concentrate on the actions-- the intent to keep learning is important. It also helps to get comfortable with saying "I don't know, but I will find out." or "I don't know-- let's find out together." Leading from a place of curiosity is a good start.

"How can I recognize that other's experiences aren't a "new thing"? To know about people who's always been around since the dawn of time. Many people go unnamed or unheard about."

Read and listen. That's really the key. Yes, that can include books from experts in sociology or gender studies, especially from folks who are from the marginalized group being discussed. Fortunately, that doesn't necessarily mean reading a bunch of dense journal articles. Many of the resources I mention in my first post come from the academic side of things, but they're digestible for everyone. So, I'd start there.


"How do you engage with fiction and entertainment? Do you avoid projecting? Do you engage with what's familiar? Do you stick to real-world research only for content about people different than you?"

Consuming media made by the people being discussed is a good idea, but you can also love a piece of media while still being skeptical of the stories they are reinforcing. Loving something and finding it imperfect are not mutually exclusive. (The same goes for people, come to think of it.) If you find media that's actively spreading harmful stereotypes or giving money to actively horrible people, then yeh, speak with your dollar as much as you can (heyyyy capitalism...), but you also have to speak with your voice by explaining why you avoid it.