Not sure how to even FIND a girl I love, let alone talk to them

[CakeFlakeCYM]

Hi. Seen me before probably. 21 cis male. I'm hoping there's some advice someone could get me involving love? Idk.

I've been without a relationship my whole life. I've gotten kinda close, someone had a crush on me in middle school which went nowhere. I've had a few people's numbers that... Idk if there was any romantic intent or not. I've had a single tinder match that actually had texts conversations after, but she didn't feel ee were right for each other... And that's it.

Even though I don't have much of a reason to be worried, I still feel worried time is running out for me to find a partner. As I get older, I get more busy, time goes by faster, and there's less opportunities to meet people naturally. In already on the verge of graduating college and I have no clue what's next for me.

And on top of that... I have no clue what I'm doing. I don't know if I've actually been in love, or if I'm just a desperate loser who's lying to myself. I've texted some people thinking "Maybe this could lead somewhere" but I can't tell if I actually like someone sometjmes or if I'm tricking myself into liking someone. None of my friends are really into the same things I am. We like similar things generally, but for years, I've never talked to anyone about spesific shared interests.

So like, I don't know if I should be looking for the one who I share a ton in common and who I can actually share my interests with, or just like one of my friends where we get along and like each other's company but we still don't have the same spesific interests.

Not that like... I even know how to find anyone like that. I feel so alone in life. It hurts so much. I feel selfish for wanting someone to just care about me, but I also know that I want to care for someone too. I want to be someone's source of affection, I want to listen to someone talk forever or hang out, I want to snuggle and kiss someone, I want to make someone feel sexually comfortable, I want to be a dad one day. I'm living, and I have things to do. It's not like this is stopping my life. But I genuinely can't help but feel shitty. And I worry that makes me so incredibly desperate and it's a loop because people probably just see mer as a desperate loser, thus staying away from me. But I can't just not care because... like, that's not how I work? I can't just change my brain and not care about how lonley I feel on a whim.

I just genuinely feel unloved and unlovable. And I don't know how to find someone. Like genuinely, I feel stuck. I'm graduating soon so idk where I'll meet new people. I don't think I'm supposed to find a partner at work. My friend circle is small and full of people in relationships, not interested in me, or who I'm not interested in. If I tried joining social groups, I'd feel like a desperate fraud because I'd know the underlying reason I'm doing that is to find love, and EVEN IF I actually started talking to someone, I'm so fucking bad at talking to people.

The girls I've texted a couple times, it's felt miserable. I feel like I have no clue what I'm doing. I hate always having to initiate conversation, I feel like I'm always talking too much, or double texting or whatever, but i also worry about talking too little or loosing momentum or waiting too long to suggest that I'm interested. I don't know the etiquette, I hate waiting on replies because it stresses me out, and I have no clue if this is all just because I never actually met someone I've clicked with, or if I just suck socially. I also feel so scared of asking anyone on a date because I worry that implies I immediately have feelings for someone, even tho I'm demi and I don't ever want to sleep with anyone I'm not trusting of or don't feel connected to... But I feel announcing I'm demi is also weird.

So yeah, sorry for a lot of words. I feel like this is a generic ass post and a million other people probably posted it, but I just hope there's advice for my spesific feelings. And again, I hope I don't sound like an incel, tho if I do please tell me.

Anyway, my questions I guess. How do I stop being so desperate? How can I actually find people to connect to? (I've tried dating apps for years, had one real match, idk how anyone finds love thru those) How can I express interest without being a creep or making people uncomfortable? Or how can I accept the idea that I'll be alone forever or just not feel as empty and unloved for never having experienced love?

[Latha]

Welcome back, CakeFlakeCYM <3

And on top of that... I have no clue what I'm doing. I don't know if I've actually been in love, or if I'm just a desperate loser who's lying to myself. I've texted some people thinking "Maybe this could lead somewhere" but I can't tell if I actually like someone sometjmes or if I'm tricking myself into liking someone

I wonder if part of the confusion here comes from the fact that we are using the word love to describe too many things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the feeling of love or like that you have when you reach out to someone might be something like strong interest and admiration. You've had some interactions, and you've noticed a potential connection that could develop romantically. These feelings are legitimate and important, so it is good that you act on them by texting these people.

The thing is, interacting with them more is what lets you learn about the kind of connection you can have with them. It might grow, or it might not. The relationship you develop with them could be romantic or platonic. And those are just two very broad categories to describe the many ways in which we can care for other people. At this point, I'm not sure it is right to ask whether you are tricking yourself. It is just too early to tell what will happen. Try not to make these delicate feelings carry more than they should.

There is, on the other hand, the kind of romantic love that you want in your life. Where you can spend hours talking to or just existing with your person. Where you care for them and know you are cared for in turn. A strong bond with someone you know you are safe with, so you can have long term goals like raising children together. I believe you can have all of this one day. No one here would ever tell you to accept that you will be alone forever, because that isn't true. But (and you probably know this), this kind of relationship is based on a lot of trust and knowledge about another person, and that takes time to develop.

Don't blame yourself for wanting to have this love in your life. You are not selfish. The point of whatever we say here is not asking you to care less, to just fix yourself and stop feeling lonely. I expect we will only ask you to change your strategy, or your mindset about who you are and what you should be doing to feel less alone.

or if I'm just a desperate loser who's lying to myself.

Before I get into anything else, I want to ask that you try not to be so harsh about yourself. This request isn't because you are causing problems for us by saying that you are a loser--you are not on both counts. I understand how much of a struggle it can be to think otherwise about yourself, but along with being factually incorrect, this kind of language really is corrosive to self-esteem. There are people out there who will love you, but thinking so terribly of yourself makes it harder for them to get to know you.

Does this make sense so far?

[CakeFlakeCYM]

Yeah, everything you've said is making sense, and I see what you mean about the self esteem thing and it being hard for people to know me.

I know I've had and still have trouble opening up, or unmasking, in just regular day to day life. My friends are a lot more open about who they are than I am, or at least it seems, and I kinda envy that.

I've noticed that I am just incredibly anxious, which in trying to work on. The two ways I feel it impacts me are in feeling my personality or who I am is just... Way too weird or off-putting. And the second being that in worried about being an unpleasant person. Unpleasant in terms of... I don't want to be desperate or too forward in trying to find a relationship because I think that makes others uncomfortable.

In regards to the first one, I feel like I'm a big nerd. I like displaying my interests in my personal spaces but not really like, around. I put up posters of stuff I love but I don't wear T-shirts of it, y'know. I like making things. I also love just... Talking about the most random trivia possible. I like having discussions. But these are all things that like... Despite not thinking any of these are bad, I don't like showing about myself because I don't feel they're attractive? For lack of a better word. Like, I don't have any reason to be proud of any of this, I almost feel like the things I enjoy are just my replacements for a personality, or just make me feel like at best, unremarkable cis male and at worst, a man-child??

And as for the second one, I think I'm rather introverted. It takes effort for me to retain friendships, especially when I do lots of the contacting. When college ends, I worry I won't see a lot of my friend circle anymore. So when it comes to trying to find a relationship... There's things I worry about. Like, if someone likes me more as a friend than a partner, that's fine. But I feel like I struggle to even keep them as a friend after. I don't like forcing conversation, especially when mostly everyone I know never texts first, and I have no clue how long is "too long" to not talk to friends. So I've just stopped talking to some people before who weren't interested romantically. Not because I don't enjoy them as friends, but because I find it so overwhelming to even just talk to friends, and I don't want to keep bothering them as if I'm still trying to start something, and I just feel if they wanted to talk to me as a friend, they'd also reach out to me.

But that's another thing when it comes to people who I am interested in. I'm texting someone right now who I just want to know more, but I feel like my anxiety is just ruining me. I don't know if I'm texting too much. They're busy alot, were in the same college. I don't know when is a good time to even send a text, because I don't want to send one at the wrong time. They've said they forget to check their phone often so I can't tell when a reply isn't coming because they haven't seen it or if it's because I am being annoying and they're avoiding me. They never text me first, only really in reply. I've tried expressing my interest in them, as in I don't feel I am in love with them because I don't feel I know them well enough yet, but I want to get to know them because I've enjoyed the times we've had long text conversations. On one hand, I feel they probably aren't interested because they only reply when texted and don't really start conversations, and don't seem to want to initiate time with me. But on the other hand, they seem really anxious too, and maybe they just prefer I do it. I technically asked her out, but I said "Would you like to go out with me sometime when we're less busy" and she said "Yeah possibly" and we haven't yet and I don't know how to bring it up again because she's so busy. I want to know more about her but also, I feel there's a possibility that a relationship isn't something she wants right now, or is too busy to focus on. Half of me wants to leave her alone, the other half is still wants to just get to know her.

Texting etiquette is a struggle. I don't call her because I don't want to call her out of the blue. There's only so many texts I can send without a reply before I feel like I'm harrasing her. I've tried being kinda clear with my interest in seeing if this might work, but I don't know if I've really just beat around the bush too much. But also, when I think about ways of saying it without the possibility of it being misinterpreted, I worry about coming off like I already fell in love with her, which also isn't true. I like her, I enjoy talking to her, I want to do that more and get to know her, and let her get to know me. But it's hard to find a way to say that in a way that doesn't feel like... Idk, fence sitting, or a lack of commitment on both ends.

So I don't really know what advice I'm looking for spesifically. Obviously you can't read her mind. But I think something I'm wondering is how people talk to other people they're interested in without being creepy? Also, again, if my mindset with much of this is flawed? If there's ways to be myself in a way where I don't feel ashamed or overly annoying, or like I make everything about me? Because it's hard to see myself from the perspective of anyone else. If there's any red flags in regards to me? Again sorry this is so long or if there's not a lot to take from this.

[Andy]

Hi there, CakeFlakeCYM! First of all, there is no need to be sorry, this is exactly what the boards are for and we appreciate you sharing your worries and thoughts with us like this. And if we ever misunderstand something or don’t react to a part of your post that you would like more thoughts on, just let us know.

I can relate to a lot of what you said, as someone who has found their first long-term happy romantic relationship just a few months ago and who has struggled with self esteem and communication too I hear you on a lot of the fears and thoughts you are expressing.

I see you being worried a lot about not following some unspoken "rules" in communicating with people like the frequency or length of texting, accidentally coming of as romantically interested, seeming desperate etc.
The (maybe bad?) news is there are no such clear rules (of course there are some rules of communication like not crossing boundaries people have set or abusing them, but this doesn’t seem to be about any of those). But the good news about those general rules not existing is that people can’t reasonably expect us to follow them and there is only one way to find out if some kind of communication or relationship feels good to the other person and that is asking them.

How do you feel about asking the person you are texting about any of your worries? It can be something like "you mentioned some time ago you might want to go out with me, there is this event/café/park/etc. that I would like to go to, would you want to do that with me?" or "I’ve been really enjoying chatting with you, would you maybe want to call sometimes so we can talk more?" or "I’ve noticed you don’t usually initiate conversations with me, is there something you need from me regarding the way we communicate to make it more comfortable for you?"
This is not to give you direct instructions for those conversations, I just wanted to illustrate that often a simple question and answer can be much more useful and give you more information that lots of overthinking.

I also think you mind like this resource: https://captainawkward.com/tag/dating/ It’s an amazing page of wonderful advice columns about relationships, communication, dating etc. You might even find something relevant to your own situation there.

What I also wanted to touch on briefly is what you mentioned about having trouble opening up or sharing your interests, because man, that was me for so many years without even realizing it is a problem that is not serving me at all. So props to you for realizing that! What helped me the most, beside being around people who I could trust and that were really interested in me as a person, was simply just practice. Slowly and mindfully talking more about myself, my hobbies, things I enjoy, things that happened to me etc. and over time it got a lot easier and also made a lot of my relationships better.

Lastly, you mention having a lot of anxiety and how it is impacting your life and I’m really sorry that it is. While I think it is really great you are working on managing it, being on it alone often cannot replace professional help. Are you working or have you ever worked with some kind of mental healthcare professional, and if not, would you be open to trying that?

[CakeFlakeCYM]

Thanks for the reply, just took a bit for me to get to it. I appreciate the words. I'll find time to check out that link as well.

I think the reason I worry about asking direct questions is just because I kinda worry about them being a bit loaded. Like, obviously I don't want people to lie to me to spare my feelings. If I ask "Am I texting too much" or something like that, I worry I already kinda primed the answer to be "Oh no, don't worry." Even if that isn't true. So I kinda have a worry about asking such direct questions due to worries kinda like that. Tho I also know that's irrational and it's also just anxiety tho. I want to ask about all kind of things but its always that whole thing of worrying about crossing unknown lines which I can only know by asking the questions I'm afraid to.

Also, I am hoping to see someone more often about managing anxiety, my circumstances right now just make that hard. Those being college taking so much time, the schedule not letting me go to a school counselor, and money preventing me from seeing a therapist. I haven't spent a lot of time looking around for free alternatives, just because I'm busy and/or focusing on other things much of the time. Tho my anxiety is something I'm trying to manage as much as possible right now.

[lilikoi]

Hi there!

I get what you mean about asking questions and worrying that people will be only say what they think you want to hear. I have had to let go of that fear and place the responsibility on the other person to be honest. In my experience, many people use the opportunity to suggest a change or to explain their behavior a little more. They might not always give you the clear answer you wanted but I've noticed that people are generally grateful you gave them space to address something unspoken.

Some people make it easier than others. I have been in friend groups where the friend culture does not encourage honest communication and it feels like everyone I meet just says the things they think people want to hear. Sometimes, it seems like the people who are open and friendly and honest fall from the sky but they're out there. You can help to encourage that kind of communication by asking questions and sharing where you are at! It's scary but eventually other people who are looking for that will be so glad you plopped down in their life.

We might be able to help you find some affordable mental health services. Fill out this Contact Form and let us know your college and city or zipcode. The information through that link is only shared with our staff! Let us know it's been filled out so we know to look for the email.

[lilikoi]

I also found a few articles I think you might get some use out of!

How to Change A Pass/Fail Dating Mindset

Why won't anyone date me?

[CakeFlakeCYM]

Hi. It's been a bit, sorry. I forgot I posted this as this didn't give me notifications. But I Wanted to say I appreciate the advice, and talking, and wanted to say thanks to you all for the help and also the resources. I will read up on them when I have the time.

[KierC]

Hi CakeFlake,

No worries about responding in any amount of time. You’re welcome to reply whenever you’d like! I’m glad this has all helped. Do let us know if you have more questions as you look through those articles! <3