Scarleteen

...and other related phrases.

Not sure what it is people don't seem to get about how okay it isn't to try and coerce people to behave in ways they want by suggesting when they don't behave that way, they are not conforming to their own gender (or to the ideas about gender the person saying things like that has) or are somehow even betraying their own gender.

And really don't get how people are somehow missing that something like "man up" is the same thing as something like, "act like a real lady."

How does everyone else feel? And if you think you have clues about this where I am clueless, want to fill me in on how you think people saying this stuff are viewing it?

This really bugs me too, but I think the thing that bugs me is how much I still say it... I hear it used for women as much as men so I think it's more about certain concepts e.g. strength, bravery being associated with men rather than people not acting in accordance with their gender although that's still obviously not good. I just find it hard to find a replacement. 'Grow a spine' is too confrontational - I think I tend to use 'suck it up' or 'deal with it' now I'm watching out for my use more. There's been a trend in my area for women using 'tuck your c*** in as a female equivalent for 'man up' (it's also the name of a feminist collective who do club nights near me). Too swear-y for my day to day use, I think, but it makes me laugh.

You know, it's interesting... I never really parsed "man up" as a gender thing. I guess I always saw it the same way as "grow up", i.e., pull yourself together and behave like an adult.
Obviously, "to try and coerce people to behave in ways they want by [way of negative insinuations about them if] they don't behave that way" is still super uncool.

I think the "man" in there is pretty much a giveaway, but I get how if you hear it a lot -- or maybe you don't have a masculinity it is being directed at -- it might seem missable.

But really, that's what it is, a push to say "The way I want you to behave is how I define being a man, and you're supposed to be one, so be one." And goodness knows that men tend to be very reactive and vulnerable around anything like this that suggests they are not being "man enough" or "real mean," just like women tend to be pretty vulnerable with things that suggest they are not "woman enough," or are not "real women."

I agree Heather, it's definitely a very gendered term that speaks to a very specific idea of masculinity. The term drives me crazy, in much the same way that "don't be such a girl" does. However, much like Kaizen and acb I've seen the term levied at both men and women, with the same intended effect: for you to act tougher, do something more daring/dangerous, be less emotional etc. It calls for you take on certain traits through the short hand of gender. Because obviously those traits are inherently linked to manliness...?

I think part of the reason the phrase might get off easier than say "act like a real lady" (though to be fair I definitely still hear that phrase and "don't be such a girl" used) is because the idea of masculinity that they're portraying is supposed to be positive and also universally positive (in that it is positive for both men and women to take on these traits).

I think in many ways it's about establishing that taking on "masculine" traits is positive, or the ideal (supposedly for both men and women given that it's levied at both), while the opposite ("don't be such a girl") establishes that displaying "feminine" traits is necessarily inferior. And for sure this inherently means that the people using the term are putting forward a very strict idea of what being a man or women is. It's just that now everyone should be a man? So it's ok?

Basically I find the whole thing off putting. The less I hear the phrase "man up" the happier I'll be.

This upsets me too. I think somebody else already mentioned how a lot of it is admonishing sterotypically feminine traits and congratulating sterotypically masculine traits. I especially hate it when it's applied to gay men. Like I have a gay male couple that I'm friends with and their both fairly masculine and have serious issues with more feminine men. And I think it's so odd that they don't see the self-hate and the woman-hate that their dislike of more feminine men is tied to. I hope one day we can just let people be people and not constantly shove made up gender roles down their throats.

You might be interested in this movie then:

http://therepresentationproject.org/fil ... u-live-in/

"The Mask You Live In follows boys and young men as they struggle to stay true to themselves while negotiating America’s narrow definition of masculinity. Pressured by the media, their peer group, and even the adults in their lives, our protagonists confront messages encouraging them to disconnect from their emotions, devalue authentic friendships, objectify and degrade women, and resolve conflicts through violence. These gender stereotypes interconnect with race, class, and circumstance, creating a maze of identity issues boys and young men must navigate to become “real” men. Experts in neuroscience, psychology, sociology, sports, education, and media also weigh in, offering empirical evidence of the “boy crisis” and tactics to combat it. The Mask You Live In ultimately illustrates how we, as a society, can raise a healthier generation of boys and young men."

To me this falls into the 'micro-aggression' category; which I have lately spent a lot of time thinking about. Similar to using a woman's name to assign weakness to a man, it's just another pin prick into the fabric of girls' and womens' confidence and self respect. And that kind of thing gets a laugh! Like, 'ha ha, women are so undervalued that in some countries girls are abandoned and sold!' Hilarious. And besides that, 'be a man' creates such a narrow space for boys and men to develope their identities and personalities, devaluing traits like compassion and empathy.