Red flag on a first date?

[a810]

I recently went on a first date with an individual I met on a popular dating app. The date went okay overall, decent conversation (first time meeting in person after a couple days of texting), but something came up that made me feel this person may be a bit insensitive...

During the date, I casually asked about dating history / why he broke up with his last ex. I know sometimes it's not great (from an emotional security standpoint) to discuss exes (especially if the information isn't super beneficial to know) and also especially so soon... But I guess I wasn't really thinking, and thought we could just discuss it very briefly.

I ended up getting probably a bit too much information... He told me his ex was a smart girl, pretty as well but had failed to pass an assessment to embark on her dream career and then became a very negative person. Now that it's been over half a year, he says he is happy now and not depressed like before. (However, he did not say explicitly that he is over his ex...)

Is this an indication that he may not be over here? I felt a bit insecure after hearing him talk about his ex in such a positive way. It seems like a red flag that he seems to lack the emotional sensitivity or tact to predict that him saying these things may cause the new person to feel uncomfortable (esp. if you are interested / may potentially go into something longer term with this new person)...

I mean, most people would just quickly glaze over it (not be fully truthful) maybe just say something negative to demonstrate reinforcement of the decision...

He also wanted to hear about my last relationship's backstory to 'see if there are any mistakes he can avoid making' but I declined to speak about it (partly because of emotional reasons, it ended less than half a year ago) but also partly because despite my ex having some serious issues, I'm not completely over him and I do feel that my ex is better than this guy in most ways and we had much more chemistry to boot (I think... emotionally I was in a much better place back then though)... Or it may be too early to tell. But obviously it wouldn't be appropriate to start gloating about him right?

I guess I was the one who opened the can of worms by asking...

[Sam W]

Hi a810,

I wouldn't say that him speaking positively of his ex is a bad sign, especially since you asked him about it directly. He was most likely giving an honest answer, and may be that he does feel kindly towards his ex (after all, feeling kind towards someone, or acknowledging their good qualities, is not the same as still being hung up on them). I think many people figure that the fact that they're on a date with someone else shows that, even if they're not 100% over a relationship (and that's something that is highly subjective in the first place) they're more interested in getting to know and date cool people who aren't their ex. So they don't feel the need to explicitly state that they're over that person.

Too, you have had one date with this person. So I'd focus more on all the other qualities that are important to you in a partner to decide whether or not you want to continue to date them than on a passing comment they made about their ex.

[Kaizen]

Like Sam, I'd say it's a good thing he was honest. Look at it this way, would you have wanted him to say he was in a relationship with someone he thought was ugly, boring and stupid? (Would you prefer an ex of yours to describe you insultingly, or say that you were a good person but things happened that made him/her decide to end the relationship?)

One thing I would say is a slight red flag, not about him but about the two of you dating I guess, is that you're already comparing him so unfavorably to your ex. You might want to think about whether you want to continue pursuing a relationship with this person, just because you seem to feel like you could do better. (In terms of a match for you, of course. I don't mean to insult him by saying you don't seem especially into him, or you by saying there's anything wrong with you feeling that way.) That's your choice.

[Heather]

Just putting a vote in that a GREEN flag for emotionally healthy people is being able to respect others and still think well of them even if and when our relationships with them are over, or didn't turn out as we'd like. I'd say a red flag when it comes to talk about exes looks the opposite, where someone is unable to do that or is bashing or putting down an ex.

Too, someone answering a question you asked thoughtfully and honestly speaks well of them, not the opposite. I don't see what he did as him being insensitive or not tactful, since it was you who asked the question, which is a gesture from you that you felt able to talk about his ex.

I'd say that if someone we are on a date with seemed like they were unable to deal with the fact that we had a relationship history, and could talk about it thoughtfully and with candor when they asked us about it, that'd actually be the red flag.

Moving forward, it sounds like perhaps you're not comfortable talking about past relationship history with someone on a first date, so that's just a note you can make for yourself next time around and know might not be the best choice for you when it comes to something to ask someone about. I also hear you saying you're not actually over your last relationship, so it might be that how you felt about this was a cue for you that it may be too soon for you to be dating right now.

[a810]

Hi everyone, thanks for your responses.

I agree that it is good that a person can speak honestly about it (and also have positive thoughts to their last partner - it's mixed for me as my last relationship ended in a unhappy, hurtful way), but did he have to go into such detail? Like that she is pretty? And smart? I don't see how providing me those attributes contributes to the conversation or is beneficial for me to know... I just asked him why his last relationship ended, not explicitly about her per se.

I can be insecure though so perhaps that is a reason why it struck me so strongly. But for a moment I didn't feel like he considered my feelings before speaking.

I am extremely picky when it comes to partners (superficial mostly unfortunately but no chemistry and a degree of compatibility will also not do), so it is not often that someone comes along that checks most of these boxes.

I wanted to try seeing other people so that I can forget about my ex (knowing he is also now seeing someone hasn't helped and has only added jealousy and regret), but I know (from past experience) that I have to find someone 'better' than him in almost all ways for me to not look back...

[Sam W]

Hi a810,

As far as the details go, again, my guess is he was just being honest and giving context (e.g he was actually going counter a more red flaggy narrative where he says "oh, she was totally nuts/clingy/etc, so we broke up" by making it clear that he thinks well of his ex, it just didn't work for the reasons he gave you). There was also not a way for him to know that you might feel insecure about this, so he likely described her with the thoughts that popped into his head.

Out of curiosity, what would someone "better" than your ex look like? Would someone different from your ex work just as well? I ask because sometimes we can build up past partners in our heads is incomparable, which makes it hard to notice the cool people in front of us, and erases the flaws that our former partners did, in fact, have. We have a piece on the main site about getting over a break-up. Does that sound like something you might find helpful?

[a810]

Interesting... Is it really that terrible if people can't "think well of their exes"? I've been cheated on before so I definitely don't have anything good to say about that particular person (nor do they deserve my respect) and I don't shy away from calling them a certain expletive when talking about him but I don't go on and on about it...

I think I am still having trouble grasping his actions... I mean, he too asked me about my last ex (which I declined to discuss for emotional reasons) but if I were to really say what I thought then would he too have been okay hearing that my ex is "hot", "really buff" and "super caring/attentive"? Because that's still what I think...

I have a pretty set standard as to what I see an ideal partner as... Of course things don't always turn out the way you want completely. But with online dating, snap judgments (especially superficial ones) are inevitably made... I think things would definitely be different if we had just been platonic friends first or had been introduced via other means, which had always been the case for my past relationships... But unfortunately, I am just not meeting people as much through those avenues anymore.

As for what would be considered "better" than my ex - would be having all the good qualities that I enjoyed (he was quite conventionally attractive - at least in my eyes and more so than myself, caring, attentive, we could talk about anything, and for the most part we had amazing chemistry) PLUS the ones that I felt my ex lacked. So far, this guy is a pretty good catch but he definitely doesn't have everything my ex did (but probably lacks some of the bad ones too) nor does he seem to have any additions. I also feel like our conversations lack depth and when I look at him, he feels too juvenile for me even though we are the same age (my ex was a few years older than me... something I preferred).

Moreover, I think he's been too easy... He's too eager, when we've hardly spent much time together to be THAT interested I think? Makes me wonder if he's actually interested in me as opposed to just having a girlfriend, and I am 'good enough'. Am I wrong to think this?

Overall, anything less than my standards (which are not completely unreasonable, but there are definitely a whole host of them) I feel I am just settling. But regardless, am I being ridiculous in my mindset? I know with some patience there can be changes easily made (I see a lot of my friends who have been with their significant others for years and they've all changed, grown up a lot and become more 'refined'), but I do not want to explicitly tell someone to change something about themselves (nor do I feel it is right to). And also people do grow up when we give them some time, but I'm not 21 anymore and I just don't feel like I have the time... Am I letting something good go?

[AvocadoLime]

Honestly here's what I'm seeing from what you write.

It really sounds like you're taking all the things you're feeling about not being over your ex and projecting that on to him. (And even if he isn't over his ex, why are you allowed to date people to make you forget yours and he is not?)

You: say you're not over your ex, you say that you're dating people to try and get over him,you say that you can't talk to him about your ex because it's too emotionally charged for you. You asked him why he broke up with his last ex. You expect him to be able to read your mind in terms of what you want to hear about his ex and/or you want him to only have dated people in the past that he didn't like and thought were ugly.

Him: he answered your question about why he broke up with his last ex. He's in a place where he can talk about her and say that she was cool/pretty and he STILL doesn't want to be in a relationship with her currently. He apparently is really into you.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh but I agree with others that maybe you should take some time to think about whether you're ready to date. Also, maybe ask yourself what red flags you're looking for? And what were you hoping to learn from asking him about his ex? I think it's totally valid to not want to date somebody if they're hung up on their ex, BUT, it's pretty uncool to not be honest about your own feelings for your ex. If you've told him you like him but he's not as good as your ex but you still want to keep seeing him because maybe he'll make you forget your ex and he wants to keep seeing you, that's his decision. But if you've asked him about his ex and he's been clear that he respects her and doesn't want to be in a relationship with her, I don't think that's a red flag.

[Heather]

You know, before I dig in too much with all you've put here, I'm curious as to why you feel like you're putting so much into the experience of this one date. In other words, you had a first date with someone, and it sounds like -- for whatever reason -- you didn't walk away feeling like you clicked. And that'll happen, in my experience, with more first dates than not. When that happens, we shrug it off and move on, letting that go and figuring we'll see what happens with the next date -- or three, or twenty -- we go on.

Every date isn't this make-it-or-break-it thing that could impact one's whole life, with going or not going to a second date being something that huge things ride on. But what I'm hearing from you is you feeling like it is. If I have that right, can you fill me in a bit on this? It just seems like talking so much about one date that wasn't something that...well, felt like anything to write home about, save something that felt negative to you, seems like a lot of energy to put into a one-time date where you seem to have figured out you weren't interested.

[a810]

That's true, I may be projecting onto him a bit...

I mean, I wouldn't say I didn't want to talk about it because it's a touchy subject, but more so my breakup was a drawn-out and emotionally draining process...

Talking about anything negative doesn't make me feel good at this point and frankly I've already repeated the story to so many friends that I'm just tired of it. I don't want to revisit it again and share so many details with someone I just met. So I simply just said that my ex wasn't in a place to be in a relationship anymore. I was left hanging really, so of course I have some unresolved feelings because they literally are that... So that's kind of a deeper explanation behind that.

Also, I don't know for sure if he would want to be in a relationship with her if she did come back. It already happened once and he left someone else just to go back to this long-time girlfriend (I know that much.) His only reason for not wanting to go back to her was that she "didn't get along with his friends". Whereas I know at this point that it's probably unlikely my ex will come back to me, and even if he does, I'd have to think long and hard... And would've needed to have see him changed in other ways, because there were a lot of lies and deceit towards the end on his part. So I know myself that it's really not likely.

Truthfully, I'm not even sure if he's that into me. He acts almost like a boyfriend sometimes (demeanor), messaging me frequently and I think it's just too soon. But I noticed he's still been fairly active on his online dating profile, even updating his photos and whatnot. It's kind of messing with my head because having talked so much with him, I feel guilty logging on myself (which I didn't talk to anyone new).

It's true, we've only physically seen each other one time. We haven't recently because he is away for a bit. But we have messaged for hours many times. So simply from talking I feel like I've garnered some degree of information on his values etc. I haven't yet been able to tell his personality much (seemed very one-diensional so far) or even his passions / interests (very generally) so maybe that would indicate a second date is worthwhile...

Heather, that's a good point. I'm not sure why I make it seem like one date (plus chatting) is the be-all and end-all. I think it just boils down to my personality... I'm like this for many things. I don't like to spend too much time on something if it really doesn't seem to be working out. Especially relationships - I've made too many mistakes in the past. I also quickly lose the drive if it doesn't seem to be working out - my gut instinct is usually right. With my past relationships, our first dates (although they had different contexts) went extremely well. I was very much looking forward to spending more time with them at least and I could tell they felt the same. There was also 'no one else in the picture', which is not the case this time (online dating accessibilities). But I was younger then, and had far less expectations/criteria.

[Heather]

Heather, that's a good point. I'm not sure why I make it seem like one date (plus chatting) is the be-all and end-all. I think it just boils down to my personality... I'm like this for many things. I don't like to spend too much time on something if it really doesn't seem to be working out. Especially relationships - I've made too many mistakes in the past. I also quickly lose the drive if it doesn't seem to be working out - my gut instinct is usually right. With my past relationships, our first dates (although they had different contexts) went extremely well. I was very much looking forward to spending more time with them at least and I could tell they felt the same. There was also 'no one else in the picture', which is not the case this time (online dating accessibilities). But I was younger then, and had far less expectations/criteria.

Do you feel like you might be second-guessing yourself here, then? In other words, most of what I hear from you around this doesn't sound like YOU (maybe him, but not you) feeling all that stoked about this guy and dating him. So, were it me, I'd be inclined to figure it just wasn't a thing to pursue, and oh well (again, IME, more dates than not will be like this). It sounds like your gut is saying the same to you, and I'd agree that not spending too much time or energy on something that just doesn't feel like A Thing Worthy Of That is a good way to go.

So, why analyze this or try and -- what sounds to me, anyway -- talk yourself into something or someone it seems like you're getting internal cues isn't a thing for you?

[a810]

I know what you mean... But I think it is because of the couple months I've been trying online dating (and in addition to some dates with people I've met elsewhere) he is the closest thing to what I see as an 'ideal' partner.

My ex was by no means a perfect person (I really did accommodate a lot of his flaws willingly) but it's been disappointing to feel like I can never do better than him again... I don't believe in there being a such thing as 'the one' but so far... He certainly still feels like it.

[Karyn]

I'd say that's not an uncommon thing to feel, honestly, even if it would be very unlikely to never find anyone ever again that you get along with as well. In my experience, it can especially feel that way if you and your past partners got together in ways that felt pretty easy and unforced - you weren't going on a lot of dates that were sort of "meh" before you met them, for example - which it sounds like you did.

Heather's advice here is spot-on; it sounds like this date was an experience that told you that this person wasn't for you, for whatever reason, so you take it for what it was and move on. If you're finding that you keep comparing potential partners to your ex, too, you might just figure that dating right now isn't going to be a helpful or positive thing for you, and that you might be better off putting your energies into other parts of your life for a while.