I've started a new something and I'm excited but nervous

[moonlight]

So I've started a new something with this guy I met a few days ago. I'm not really sure what to call it. We met, flirted, got to know a bit about each other and then we had sex. I'm super excited about the possibilities of what this can turn into, but as a good friend warned me, I also need to be conscious of the fact that he may not want this to go anywhere further than where it has gone.

So I guess what I'm looking to do here is get my thoughts together about all of this and maybe get some feedback as this something progresses. Because my last relationship turned out to be dependent, I'm a little afraid for this something and what it could turn into.

So the positives:
- he was super good at communicating before, during, and after sex: getting consent, talking about contraception, checking in to make sure everything was going okay, telling me what felt good to him
- he generally seems like an all around good guy
- this is new, so it has the potential to turn into anything
- we are meeting again and he said it was really nice meeting me and he hopes to see me around more

The negatives:
- he said we probably wouldn't be able to do "this" (have sex) too often
- this is the first time I've been healthy for a long time, so maybe I shouldn't be dating right now

He and I are meeting up again and I plan to ask him just what he wants out of this and how often he wants to hang out. That should clear the air about the first negative. As to the second one: there are no hardfast rules about when people should or shouldn't date and I really do feel ready.

I'm planning on also asking him about certain contentious issues that are important such as feminism, mental health, religion, LGBT rights, etc. Does it seem like an okay idea to discuss all of those in one sitting, or should I just leave them each to their own discussion? The reason I want to ask him about all these things so soon is because I don't want to get too invested in this something if he and I have irreconcilably different opinions on say, feminism.

Also, when is the appropriate time to discuss my mental health challenges with him? I want to be upfront with him and not hide it. But at the same time, I know that when my ex told me he had mental health challenges on our very first date (!), I felt like a huge weight had been placed on my shoulders and I don't want to do that to this guy.

What else should I be considering when it comes to this something? Does anyone have any comments or concerns based on what I have said so far?

Thank you very much,

~moonlight

[Heather]

Good for you! Truly, it's great to hear you so excited.

I think a few days of knowing someone is a bit soon to ask what they want from a relationship, of any kind, with you, and to interview them about All the Big Things, IMO. My advice would be to just get to know each other a bit more first.

That way, you can find out about those big things in a way that doesn't load them all up so intensely, and that way you and he can start to feel out what you might want. We can't really figure out what kind of relationship we want from someone else if we have only known them a few days, after all.

It seems to me some of what you're looking for in all that are cues to manage yourself getting too attached too fast, but that's really a thing for you to do regardless, and for yourself, you know? Getting big-time attached and invested when you have only been involved with someone for a few days isn't a route to healthy relationships even if and when we and someone else are a great fit and do want similar things.

[moonlight]

Yeah, I think my biggest issue is getting attached too fast.

I thought it might be a bit soon to ask him what he wanted. So for now I suppose I'll hold off on all the big stuff and just, let this thing be.

[Heather]

Do you want to talk about things you can do for yourself to manage that inclination? I'm happy to share some ideas (on a personal note, this was often a big issue for me when I was younger, too, so I get it).

[moonlight]

I'd love to talk about that! I'm not really sure where to begin.

[Heather]

No problem, I can get us started, and we can take it from here.

I think the big thing about attachment, especially attachment too soon, has to do with what we're looking for for ourselves from someone else. In other words, what is it that you want or need that feels like it has to be (it usually can't be, but I'm talking feelings here, not facts) met by someone else so desperately? I don't use that last word in a judgy way, but as a way to express those deep feelings of immediate need that tend to inform attachment.

Too, asking ourselves what we're scared of that makes us feel like we'd better try and lock something with even an inkling of promise down immediately is, I think, often a helpful route of inquiry.

For both of those issues, loneliness is often a big player, as is the idea that if we don't hold on tight and lock something in, we won't have the kind of relationships we want in life. If any of this feels like a ticking clock, it's pretty easy to get attached too fast.

I also think it's helpful to remember that when we're just getting to know someone -- certainly in the first few weeks or months -- a lot of our feelings about the are often more projections of our idea of them than feelings based in who they actually are since, of course, we can't know the latter at all well in just days, weeks or a couple months. I know it often doesn't feel that way, but that is one of the places where facts don't often square with feelings, if you follow me.

If you're interested in some practical helps, I'd suggest that one big thing you do is work hard NOT to start considering every interaction with someone as something potentially ongoing or serious, like by ... well, posting something like you have where you're planning to try and find out all their big things at once, and get them to make a schedule for seeing you right at the gate here. Getting away from that might mean distracting yourself with other things in your life, spending time with people in other parts of your life right now, like friends, and doing whatever you can just to try and stay in the moment, which, by all means, isn't a certain place. Rather, when something is this new, the moment, as it were, is a place of total uncertainty, and that's just something everyone who is exploring new relationships at any time of life has to find a way to accept (and ideally, enjoy!).

Those are just some starts, but I want to see how you want to bounce off of them before I say anything else.

[moonlight]

The part about loneliness really resonates with me. I am lonely. In terms of the social aspects of university, I may as well be in first year. I was just too sick the past two years to make any lasting connections with people. I made a friend or two, but not people I see any more than every few months. So, part of that is really likely making me latch on to this guy.

What I want from this guy (but do see that I can't get quite yet) is a partner. Someone I see every few days, do all sorts of stuff with, talk to about everything. I want, I need some really big things from him that he certainly can't give to me right now.

What am I scared of? I'm scared that if I don't jump on this right away and make things right straight away that this potential relationship will slip through my fingers and that I'll never get another chance to have a relationship. I'm scared that this relationship will become dependent, that I don't know anything different so I can't experience anything different. I'm scared that he'll be anti-gay, or not grok mental illness, or have some other irreconcilable opinion that means things need to end.

It's helpful to recognize my feelings as projections. Even though they totally don't feel that way, I can see how it makes sense that they are.

As for distractions, school starts tomorrow and clubs and events do too, so I'm going to have a major (awesome) distraction. It's just today that's tough because I have absolutely nothing to do except watch netflix and think about this guy. I'm getting too distracted by thoughts of him.

[Heather]

Can I ask you, if you don't mind, why it is you think you know you want THIS guy as a partner when you barely know him? In other words, why this guy, or is it really not about this guy, save that he's the guy you just met and, so far, you're not seeing any red flags?

In case that's unclear, wanting someone as a partner is a pretty big deal, and obviously -- I assume -- we won't want just anyone who is willing and nice (or nice for now). You voice some of this in your fears about who he could turn out to be, which is one of the big reasons NOT to rush in with anyone, but really take more time to get to know them before we make any big commitments or get emotionally attached.

Who he turns out to be, a thing you mostly can't know yet, will inform if you do want him as a partner or not. So, why do you think you can know that's what you want from him now? Is this just about wanting any partner, regardless of who they are?

Too, any sense of why you feel like THIS relationship (or that last interaction we talked about, or any interaction with someone) is what having relationships for the whole rest of your life hinges on?

Maybe when school starts up again, at the very least, you can make sure you're investing at least as much energy in seeking out friendships as romantic relationships?

[moonlight]

I want this guy because he's there and seems interested in me in some shape or form. I know that isn't really very good, but it's kind of where I'm at right now. So it's not so much that I want him, but that I want someone.

And it does feel a bit like all my future relationships hinge on this one.

Yes, I am totally going to invest as much energy into making friends. I've already started doing that since I've been moved into residence for a few days and so far it is going pretty well.

[Heather]

Okay. So, those feelings are real, as you know. But what they're not is a foundation for any kind of good relationship. Just wanting someone, anyone, and being willing to get involved and committed just because someone wants us is a recipe for anything from just crap to absolute relationship disaster. Same goes for going into something because you (falsely) believe that if you don't, you'll never get a chance at relationships again.

You have those feelings, and you can't make yourself not have them. But you can recognize that you have them and make choices that take them into account, just like, for instance, an alcoholic can recognize their alcoholism can set them up for some problematic choices or dynamics so they can manage that to hopefully avoid additional problems it can cause or incline them to. Make sense?

Really, if and when we're feeling those ways, the best move is usually NOT to try and pursue or enter into any kind of romantic or sexual relationship that's serious or we see as potentially so, because we've really got to be pretty far outside those headspaces to find and make the good stuff. Too, in good relationships, we have to be honest with each other, and I'm willing to bet you won't be telling this guy or anyone else that your primary motivation to be with them is just to be with anyone, anyone at all who'll have you.

Have I yet suggested my friend Jaclyn Friedman's book, "What You Really, Really Want?" If not, I think it'd be a good one for you to see if you can't find.

Too, does your school offer any mental health counseling? If they do, it sounds like you could use that kind of help and support in working through some of these feelings so that they don't land you in yet another yucktastic relationship OR make it hard for you to just enjoy your life, including interactions you're having for what they are, as they are, rather than as some sort of long-term salvation, if that makes sense to you.

(I hope you know that in this discussion, I'm not making any judgments or thinking poorly of you. I'm just trying to be real in how I talk with you, but I want to make sure that you know that should any of my candor feel like a judgement or a put-down, that's not at all what I'm intending or how I'm thinking of you and where you're at.

I also want to make sure you know that I've a world of respect for how honest you're being with me about things about yourself you probably don't feel great about. If any of the ways I'm talking to you feel like they're not making room for that, please let me know.)

[Heather]

Just an additional thought on another practical help: in headspaces like these, I think it can also be helpful to ask ourselves what, that we're looking for from someone else, we can do for ourselves.

For example, a bunch of years ago I was in a really dry spell with dating, and one of the things I missed most was just having a reason to do things like going out to a nice dinner. So, one of my fixes with that was to make a point of taking MYSELF out to nice dinners, including doing whatever kind of getting-ready or prep I'd do were I going with someone else. And, as it turned out, those nights out by myself turned into one of the nicest things I had going that summer: I found some really great new restaurants, read some great books, and, lo and behold, even wound up making a couple new friends who I met while being out like that.

You said one of the things you want from a partner is to get out and do stuff: so, how about you start getting out and doing whatever those things you have in mind are on your own?

[moonlight]

I hear what you're saying and I really appreciate it. Don't worry, you're giving me plenty of space here.

I'm already getting counselling, and I'm part of a support group, so maybe I'll bring this up in one of those places.

So are you suggesting I not pursue things with this guy? Because that is not something, if I'm being honest, that I'm prepared to do.

[moonlight]

I'm already getting out and doing stuff. I resolved to start taking myself on dates a while ago, and it's been one of the best things I've ever done.

[Heather]

Well, no, I wasn't, but I do have to say that if you feel like no matter what -- this was the case with the last guy, too, as I recall -- there's no WAY you'd not pursue something, I'd say that's a pretty big cue that you need to have some big thinks. Because ultimately, if we aren't prepared to step away from something, or adapt how we're coming at it, that inflexibility sets us and others up for...well, not good things.

What I'm suggesting is that you think about some of the same things we talked about the last time around, and see what you can do to really evaluate what you're ready for (this includes being cool enough by yourself to pursue new relationships so you're not looking to them to make you better, if you get me). Then that you figure out what you need, for yourself, to explore dating without big attachment, or figuring that you have to go all-in with just anyone who will have you. And if you feel like you just can't do that, then yeah, dating, period, might not be so great for you just yet, as it probably won't turn into the good stuff you want.

I would like to pitch in -- knowing it may or may not land, and certainly can't work magic -- that my experience of you, moonlight, is that you're pretty amazing.

So, the idea that all you deserve is just anyone who'll have you just doesn't square, for me, with the great value of the person I know. If you set the bar that low, chances are awfully good it's only that low bar others are going to meet and see a need to meet. I personally think you deserve a lot more than that, and owe yourself a lot more than that. You deserve someone who is amazing in their own right, and who also is a real fit for you as a whole person as their best self, rather than someone in a tough spot right now because you're lonely.

But you're not at all likely to find people like that, nor they you, if you're not bringing your best self to the table, which you may not be able to just right now (because you're not seeing that person), and that's okay: sometimes in life we're in a really bad place in our heads and hearts, and need to just take care of ourselves and learn to see ourselves clearly, and with great value, first, before we can expect others to do so. On the whole, all others are going to see of us is what we show them, and what we show usually is how we feel about ourselves. So, if we think poorly of ourselves, or like we deserve very little, that's what others will tend to see, too, which tends to result in great people taking a pass -- because they, understandably, want someone who seems awesome and like they value themselves, not just lonely and unconfident -- and not-great people being who stick around, because they often won't think very well of themselves, either.

[Heather]

I've a thought, btw: what if, with this new guy, you make a rule with and for yourself that you will NOT ask about anything ongoing or committed, or about what he might want from you in a bigger way, for one month?

In other words, what if, for just one month -- which really is a very short period of time -- you just let yourself get to know him, see him when you both want to see each other and it works out with both your schedules and current wants, and work very hard to see this as a who-knows-where-this-will-go-or-what-it-will-be thing?

[moonlight]

I can totally do the one month thing, that sounds like a really smart idea.

I can see how I might not be seeing my best self and how that means I won't put my best self forward, so how do I correct that? How do I see my best self and put that self forward? Because I want to attract awesome people, be that this guy or someone else.

I don't want to just accept whoever will have me, BTW, it's just that I feel a bit like that is my only option. Which I can recognize as total bunk when I put it out there like that, but still can't help but feel anyway.

I know I might not be in the best place for all of this, so how do I get myself to that place?

[moonlight]

Also, I will absolutely give that book a look and read a preview of it on my ereader to see if I want to purchase it.

[Heather]

I think one big thing is doing your own work and care of yourself to raise your self-esteem first before pursuing any kind of serious relationship, or any relationship you find triggers things for you like feeling instantly attached or in any kind of desperation. If that's too obtuse, holler at me and I'll get more detailed.

I think your second to last paragraph is SO VERY IMPORTANT. And, to me, what that's a cue about is that you need to take real time, and put real energy into, aligning what you know to be for real -- that just who'll have you is so NOT your only option, and if it was, it'd probably be best to opt out since that's never going to result in anything good -- with those conflicting feelings coming from low self-esteem. In other words, working on those feelings from your heart better matching the facts you know to be true in your head.

Of course, there's always going to be a struggle to do that if and when we've gotten into any kind of pattern of trying to seek out self-esteem and worth externally: in a word, I'd say that's a sort of compulsion that we just need to unlearn when it's taken root in us.

One help with that can be some safer -- for your heart, safer -- half-steps, like doing some volunteer work, for instance, where by all means, there's value in doing that, for yourself and others, but okay, some of your motivation in doing that is also to big yourself up. same can go, when you're ready, for having life experiences where we have a really great interaction with someone but do NOT pursue anything further. There's something about getting some practice in the benefits of walking away -- and not just when something sucks -- because we learn to appreciate the value of a person or thing only in the moment.

You might also want to look up information on changing or managing your attachment style. Yours seems to be the anxious attachment type, and there's a good deal of information about that. Common suggestions for working on that include the kind of work elevating self-esteem I've already mentioned, but also really being honest and authentic with people -- which would include, for example, telling someone you're seeing that you're just in a very lonely, low place and probably not in a good space for something serious just yet, however much you want it; or telling someone you get too attached too quickly, so need to take things slow for your own good and theirs. Codependence is also a thread in all of this, so that's something to research as well.

[Heather]

Just found this quiz about attachment styles that may be helpful, btw: http://www.web-research-design.net/cgi-bin/crq/crq.pl

[moonlight]

So, it looks like I have some big thinking to do about whether or not to walk away from this, I really don't want to, but sometimes we have to do things we don't want to. I think, though, that I will wait, perhaps that month to also see how this plays out. After all, I can always walk away from this later, but it's a whole lot harder for me to get back into this thing once I get out of it.

From the questionnaire you sent me:

According to your questionnaire responses, your attachment-related anxiety score is 5.00, on a scale ranging from 1 (low anxiety) to 7 (high anxiety). Your attachment-related avoidance score is 2.61, on a scale ranging from 1 (low avoidance) to 7 (high avoidance).
...
Combining your anxiety and avoidance scores, you fall into the preoccupied region of the space. Previous research on attachment styles indicates that preoccupied people tend to have highly conflictual relationships. Although they are comfortable expressing their emotions, preoccupied individuals often experience a lot of negative emotions, which can often interfere with their relationships.

So, I'm going to do some research about this attachment style.

Thank you for all of the help Heather .

[Heather]

Of course!

And by all means, there may be middle ground here, like by challenging yourself to try and come at this differently, including things like that month limit. You could even tell this person, if they bring more commitment up, that you need to give yourself at least a month before you talk about that so you don't wind up finking out with what YOU need because they are potentially offering something you want.

I think that'd be really good for you, you just have to figure out if you're able to do that kind of healthy-interaction challenge in this context now or not.

[moonlight]

I think that I am able to do that. And the only way I'll figure it out is if I try.

So can I maybe check back in here once I see him again to get a second opinion on how I'm doing in terms of whether or not it is a healthy interaction?

[Heather]

I'm always happy to talk with you anytime, moonlight. So, whatever works for you!

[moonlight]

I am disappointed. And sad.

Hanging out with him was a total flop. He had homework, so all he wanted to do was that and I basically sat there doing nothing until I got my own homework. I was so excited, it was all I was looking forward to and then it just was no fun.

I totally got way too invested in this. Too fast too much too soon.

I want things with this guy to be everything I had hoped for, not everything they were.

I really just feel like shit right now.

I get, that he had to do his homework. And I get that he didn't want to cancel with me, so he tried to combine the two. But getting it doesn't mean I like it.

He said he'll text me when he has some free time, so we'll see how that goes, but I don't think this is going to blossom into anything.

[Sam W]

Hi Moonlight,

Heather is out, but I hope you won't mind my chiming in. It's a bummer that the get together didn't go as planned, especially when you were so excited about it. I will say that, when we develop a habit of getting super into people super quickly, that habit doesn't break right away. So don't be too hard on yourself. You already taking steps to try and move away from mindsets that you know lead to disappointment, so keep doing that (things like the reading books and taking quizzes, or even journaling) and it will start to feel easier.

As far as this specific guy goes, are you thinking you want to keep with the one month, see-where-it goes plan, or do something else?