LDR with Language Barrier and No Technology

[moonlight]

FYI I'm not looking for someone to replace a counsellor here, I have an appointment with a counsellor on Wednesday. The mental health information is critical context in my opinion. I'm looking for relationship advice from my peers and the experts here at Scarleteen. My boyfriend and I are receiving medical treatment and I am not looking to replace that here. I understand that some of this may be beyond the scope of your site. I think that some of it is within the scope of your site, so I request that you read on. Please. I am really in need of some advice.

Remember the guy from "Dating Someone Who Doesn't Speak the Same Language" ( http://www.scarleteen.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3968 )?

Well we're still together. But now long-diatance. To make a long story short, I've hit a bump in the road with my mental health condition and I've had to return to Canada to seek health care.

We knew that if this thing lasted we'd be temporarily long distance. But we were expecting another 6 weeks in person together. We were together 3 weeks before I had to go home and I've been home a month.

I've got a few concerns. I want to nip anything potentially unhealthy in the bud and make this temporarily long-distance relationship work.

First of all, he also has a mental illness and was just diagnosed. How do I verify that we are both healthy enough to be dating right now?

My last relationship, as you may recall from the old boards, became highly emotionally dependant. Part of the reason for this was that my ex was too ill to be in a relationship and did not have a support system. So, as someone who loved him, I tried to do what I thought was right and support him. Neither of us had ever even heard of Emotional Dependency before the relationship was so messy and emotionally dependent that it had to end.

And I am terrified that either my current boyfriend or I will become emotionally dependant upon the other person. This would be a concern if we were both perfectly healthy, but given the fragile state of our illnesses at this point, it is an even bigger concern.

I don't want history to repeat itself. Although I did love my ex, I was not in love with him. I am in love with my current boyfriend. (For those of you who know the nuanced language surrounding love in Spanish, it might make more sense for you if I said: Yo quería mi ex novio, yo amo mi novio.) So I'm in love, for the first time ever. And I don't want this to end before it has to. I don't want to make the same mistakes this time, or any other mistakes I can prevent. I'm happy and I want this relationship to last as long as possible.

So, what are the signs that a relationship is becoming emotionally dependant?

How can my boyfriend and I work together prevent this from becoming an unhealthy relationship?

I know that making sure we both have and utilize our support networks is a major way to prevent emotional dependancy.

And my support network has recently grown and I am using it. But as far as I know, he only ever really talks about his sister and his best friend. He has told them both that he is sick and has their support. But is a support network of two people beyond me sufficient?

Because of his present illness I don't think he can grow his support network any bigger until he is mentally well again, but I'll ask if he is close with his parents or anybody else.

Another challenge in this relationship is that he is very poor so he cannot afford the technology that would connect him to the internet. It costs him nothing to receive texts or phone calls. Therefore our relationship is limited to the 20 minute phone calls per day that I can afford, lots of texts sent out by me and the occasional text sent back when he has money on his phone.

I just miss him so much and 20 min a day is not enough for me. His sister (whom he lives with) has a computer and the internet but he is convinced that she will not share. I guess the obvious answer is to impress upon him again that I can barely afford the 20 min international phone calls per day and that he should ask her.

That brings me to a few questions:

In a LDR how much contact is healthy? What is too much? What is too little?

Assuming he never gets connected to the internet, how do we make a relationship work for the next 6 or more months on just 20 mins a day of contact? (Before I even met him I was scheduled to return to his country to work for 8 months starting in September. But my health has put my exact return date into question. I will return but for how long and when is no longer certain).

It is highly likely that over the next 6 or more months I will get to visit him twice. I have done up my budget and I can afford this. The first visit will be in about a month for about a week because I need to tie up some loose ends in his country and this is the latest I can do this. The second visit will be about two months after that. This all assumes that my health allows for these visits and that I return to his country in September. It is almost certain that I will spend a week there in a month.

So, we will get to see each other in person over the next 6+ months.

I know LDRs are really hard. How can I make mine work?

Well, if you're reading this, thank you for getting through my extremely long post. I appreciate any advice or insights you may be able to provide.

[Sam W]

Hi Moonlight,

Okay, let's start whether or not you two are both in a place where you feel like you can be in a relationship. In terms of your own illness, how are you feeling? And have you had the chance to talk to him (even with the language barrier, it sounds like you two can communicate) about what he's feeling in terms of wanting to be in a relationship (especially on that's about to become long distance)?

It sounds like you already know some of the signs of being too dependent on the other person in the relationship. Who you have for support is a big one. There's also the question of how much time/energy is spent in the relationship vs how much time and energy is spent on other relationships (including the one with yourself) and hobbies.

With contact during an LDR, that really depends on the people involved and how much contact they need and can also manage. Generally, the more consistent or regular you can make the contact, the easier it will be. It sounds like it's time for the two of you to have a frank talk (again, you know how this will go better than I will giving the language barrier) about what you each want from the LDR and what you are each willing and able to do to sustain it.

I do want to ask, does it feel possible to make the months you're gone into a "break" from the relationship while you do what you need to take care of yourself (and he does likewise)? Or do you think that would be adding more stress to the mix rather than decreasing it for you?

[moonlight]

Okay, let's start whether or not you two are both in a place where you feel like you can be in a relationship. In terms of your own illness, how are you feeling? And have you had the chance to talk to him (even with the language barrier, it sounds like you two can communicate) about what he's feeling in terms of wanting to be in a relationship (especially on that's about to become long distance)?

I don't think have enough Spanish to communicate about this without the power of Google Translate, but luckily Google Translate exists.

In terms of my own illness, I don't know how I'm feeling. I need to have a frank discussion with one of the health professionals I am seeing about this. The problem with that is that, although I have an appointment with three different doctors this week (GP, counselor and Psychiatrist), the GP and the counselor are doctors I've never met before and who don't know my history. Furthermore counselling is beyond the scope of a Psychiatrist's job description and specialization. So I don't know if I'm going to get the help I need in finding this answer soon.

But I also desperately do not want to end this relationship. It makes me happy. So I need the outside perspective from someone else on whether or not I'm healthy enough to be in a relationship. Because it's not something I have enough insight about.

As per my boyfriend's own readiness to be in a relationship, we have sort of talked about it. He broke up with me 2 weeks ago because he needed time to get better. But when I asked if we could still be friends he gave me a list of all the things he would still do as my friend. And it sounded an awful lot like dating. Now, in his country, dating is not a thing. You are novios (girlfriend and boyfriend) or you are friends. There is no inbetween. So I explained the concept of dating to him and asked him if that was what he wanted, and he said yes. So, what he wanted was to take a step back from the commitment in our relationship to work on his mental health. And yet, two or three days ago he let me know he wanted to be my boyfriend again. So now we are novios.

So I guess what the above paragraph means is that first I need to decide if I am healthy enough. And then I need to have a frank discussion with my boyfriend about whether we are both healthy enough to date now.

It sounds like you already know some of the signs of being too dependent on the other person in the relationship. Who you have for support is a big one. There's also the question of how much time/energy is spent in the relationship vs how much time and energy is spent on other relationships (including the one with yourself) and hobbies.

Okay. This sounds like some good things to watch. Are there any other red flags I should look out for? Do you have any literature on maintaining a healthy relationship?

With contact during an LDR, that really depends on the people involved and how much contact they need and can also manage. Generally, the more consistent or regular you can make the contact, the easier it will be. It sounds like it's time for the two of you to have a frank talk (again, you know how this will go better than I will giving the language barrier) about what you each want from the LDR and what you are each willing and able to do to sustain it.

Yes, this sounds like we need to have a frank talk about this.

Communication is hard because of the language barrier, but I know a lot more Spanish than I give myself credit for, and I can communicate with him better than I could when we got together a month ago. (Funny how taking on a foreign lover will improve your language skills ). Communication is critical and even more so in a LDR.

And being the one who knows that all these deep conversations need to happen, it's my job to start them.

I do want to ask, does it feel possible to make the months you're gone into a "break" from the relationship while you do what you need to take care of yourself (and he does likewise)? Or do you think that would be adding more stress to the mix rather than decreasing it for you?

I would be devastated to end this relationship temporarily. But it might be what I need. But, because I am not thinking clearly due to my illness I have decided not to make any important decisions until I see my psychiatrist tomorrow. So, I have a lot of decisions to make. My head and my heart are wrestling with each other and since I'm sick I can't even trust my head.

I know that I want to stay in this relationship. But I am mature enough to say that I don't know if that is what is in my best interest.

[Heather]

I'm going to post two separate replies to all this, one that's just about LDRs in general, and then another that's more specific to your concerns -- very sound ones, IMO, and concerns I think it's good you're having -- with this specific relationship.

Back in the day -- and by that, I mean as little as 15 - 20 years ago -- people have LDRs without mobile phones, internet access or video chat. Shocking, I know, but I swear, we did it. Heck, even further back in the day, people did it without telephones.

The tools we have now are helpful, for sure, but it's not like they are required for people to have long-distance relationships, be those friendships, family relationships or romantic or sexual relationships. It's entirely possible to maintain relationships long distance just by writing letters you send via post. It's also possible to maintain them without a bunch of visits, and certainly without a giant bank account, or one person footing all the bills.

So, here's what I would suggest for an LDR in general, and considering the options and limitations here:
1) You can both write letters and send them, and use what IS available to you. What you don't have needn't be an impediment: after all, it wasn't for a ton of people in LDRs before you.

2) Be sure that no one person is footing all the bills here. I'd suggest that you figure that for an equitable LDR that's also an equitable, mutually committed relationship in general, things are split. So, if you want to and can make one visit happen you pay for, the next one is one he figures out. I've worked out visits and such when I was in poverty myself in LDRs: it's doable, it just takes a good deal of effort and some smart management of money. Splitting/sharing effort and responsibility like this also helps make it much harder for a relationship to be one-sided, or for one person in it to wind up desperately chasing or pursuing the other.

3) Keep future planning realistic, and don't jump much further in planning your life around an LDR than the relationship itself has already gone on for. In other words, you have only dated this person for three weeks, so I'd say looking at plans months down the road isn't sound. Start at now and maybe the next month. If this continues and keeps feeling like a good thing for you in another month or two, then it is more sound to, say, look at and make plans over the next two or three months, and so on. I get that you have giant feelings, but in the first few weeks of a new relationship, that's actually pretty common (and a lot of that is actually plain old neurochemistry more than anything else). IME, you want to keep it real and not mistake new big feelings for something going on for an age from the front, if you follow me.

[Heather]

Here's my part two:

I actually -- personally, knowing you as I know you, and listening to your concerns in this thread and since this started -- think that it's a good thing you have some forced big distance, and also don't have the ability to kind of latch on in all the ways we can with an LDR to stay in constant communication. This does all feel mighty fast to me, and also pretty disorienting, like with the back and forth of what this person wants and feels ready for (and to be honest, it sounds to me like he has lobbied more for slowing down and getting less serious, so I'm a bit concerned he might be saying he'll move it forward because you clearly want that so badly).

I am also concerned about you making plans to spend so much time, energy and money on something over a long period of time when you have only even known this person for a few weeks. I wonder: what would you otherwise do with the money that would fund a trip or two? If it wasn't going to that, what would it go to?

Another concern of mine is that right from the front here, you seem to be setting this up so that far more of the effort and money here is yours, rather than starting this much more equitably. Why not, besides looking at this far less long-term as I suggested above, construct this from the start, if you're going to go for this, in ways that are based on both of your abilities and resources, and only expend as much of your own time, energy, money and planning as the other person is/can? Why look to make up for what he either can't do, or doesn't want to?

I just miss him so much and 20 min a day is not enough for me. His sister (whom he lives with) has a computer and the internet but he is convinced that she will not share. I guess the obvious answer is to impress upon him again that I can barely afford the 20 min international phone calls per day and that he should ask her.

If 20 minutes a day isn't enough contact for you, and letters via post won't help with that, then I think you need to really listen to yourself here and recognize that how this can realistically go isn't going to work for you. I personally feel like telling someone you have just started dating they need to be asking for relatives for money to be involved with you is...well, I'll be real about it: I think it's a bit much. I took a sec there and put myself in his shoes, and personally, if someone I just started dating was telling me to do things like that, I'd actually be feeling pretty freaked out and would probably be quite immediately telling that person to back the heck off and also suggesting we stop seeing each other. Someone telling me what I need to do to come up with money to talk with them I have just started seeing just feels very invasive to me, and perhaps even a little coercive. I can't help but wonder if the feelings of desperation and intense attachment you've described aren't kind of clouding your judgment, and coloring you pushing for things you wouldn't be in a better headspace when you were not feeling any desperation.

I'd suggest that instead of trying to push him to match *your* level or ability when it comes to money or time spent, you match his. In other words, rather than trying to get him to scale up -- which I think is problematic in a bunch of ways -- I think it's more appropriate and sound for you to scale down what you want or plan to invest or spend to meet him where he's at. If that winds up not feeling like enough, I think that's a thing you need to know and accept, rather than push to change. Because if it's not enough, then it just isn't, and this just isn't right for you. I think trying to make it into what you want that it isn't isn't going to leave you feeling very good about yourself, and also isn't likely to result in something that's actually good for everyone involved, including the concerns you have voiced about codependence patterns. Do you know what I mean?

Really, I think what you've said about feelings of desperation, period, are very important to look at. If and when we are feeling that way with something brand new, I think it's a pretty giant red flag that something is seriously amiss, either with the relationship, with ourselves, or both. I get that it sucks to start something new that's great and we feel strongly about and to either have it quickly move to long distance or start that way from the front (been there, have more than one of those t-shirts). But if it still all doesn't feel pretty light -- again, brand new thing, this isn't a relationship of many years -- and something where it does not feel at all like the world would end if it didn't wind up continuing, I think it's very important to really look at that and to figure out WHY it feels like your world would come crashing down if something that's barely an anything didn't go on, and WHY you feel so intensely attached so soon.

[moonlight]

I'll respond to your comments and concerns in order.

First of all, there is no postage system in his country, so that isn't an option.

Secondly, I don't see how him sharing the computer with his sister is asking a relative for money. He and his sister share all the expenses of everything, food, electricity, etc so they share the expense of the internet too. So it's really just asking to borrow a computer to have access to the internet that he already pays for.

I know I'm not in a good headspace right now. I'm in a Manic episode. That really clouds my judgement. But to be quite honest I was surprised to see you voicing that I am feeling desperation and intense attachment.

This has been an intense relationship from the start. We have seen each other everyday until a week ago when I returned home. But the whole time I was down in his country I was having intense, concentrated experiences. I was living and working with the same people in a foreign culture and language and seeing them every day too. Everything I did was intense, I formed life-long bonds with two people I had never met before and now call best friends. So while this relationship may seem intense, it was formed in the kiln of my experience in his country, which was by it's very nature intense. My friends have put it like this: you see him everyday here, but back home you'd see him 2 or 3 times a week. That means that in normal time, it's like you've been dating this guy 3x longer. I've been dating him a month BTW, so by my friend's calculations, that would make our equivalent relationship time 3 months.

I know that regardless of how long it feels like we've been together, it has really only been a month. And I know that you would probably be telling me the same things if it had been three months. I'm just trying to provide some context.

I hear what you telling me. I need to be careful, I get attached onto things way too fast. But this relationship feels different than the last one. I'm actually happy in this in a way I never was with my ex.

I don't know why I feel so intensely attached so soon. But you're wrong when you say I feel my world would come crashing down if this didn't go on. I didn't say that, so please don't put words in my mouth. Would I be sad if we broke up? Yes. Would it take me some time to get over it? Yes. But would it take me longer than the time we've been together. No. Would my world fall apart? No.

I have a life aside from him.

And I do think that my illness is certainly playing into my feelings about my relationship with him. That's the insidious thing about mental illness, there isn't a single part of your brain that it can't touch. But does that mean that I have to stop dating him? I don't know.

I just don't know what the right thing is here.

[Heather]

Secondly, I don't see how him sharing the computer with his sister is asking a relative for money. He and his sister share all the expenses of everything, food, electricity, etc so they share the expense of the internet too. So it's really just asking to borrow a computer to have access to the internet that he already pays for.

Do you not feel like if that is something he WANTED to do he wouldn't be asking on his own, rather than needing you to push him to do it? In other words, if you were in the same spot with how you feel about him, would you need him to ask you to do this? Just a thing to think about.

My friends have put it like this: you see him everyday here, but back home you'd see him 2 or 3 times a week. That means that in normal time, it's like you've been dating this guy 3x longer. I've been dating him a month BTW, so by my friend's calculations, that would make our equivalent relationship time 3 months.

Personally, I don't think that is at all sound. You have been seeing him exactly as long as you have been seeing him. Time just isn't relative like that. A three week relationship has lasted three weeks (and a one month, pone month). A relationship that has gone on for three months has gone on for three months. IMO, I don't think your friends are doing you any favors by changing the timeline for you. I think it's better for you to stay in reality, and the reality is that this is a relationship that has existed for one month, not more.

I don't know why I feel so intensely attached so soon. But you're wrong when you say I feel my world would come crashing down if this didn't go on. I didn't say that, so please don't put words in my mouth. Would I be sad if we broke up? Yes. Would it take me some time to get over it? Yes. But would it take me longer than the time we've been together. No. Would my world fall apart? No.

I have a life aside from him.

My apologies of my interpretation of what you said wasn't sound and felt off the mark to you. For me, words like "desperate" and "devastated" and "terrified" (I brought/bring those words up because you have used them in your posts here) mean "whole world/life feeling at risk." I'm sorry if I misunderstood you and what those words mean -- or emotionally translate to -- for you.

If it helps, something I often do as an exercise with choices like this is to try to actually turn OFF what anyone else is saying, and ask myself what choices I'd make if everyone I could ask only said, "I don't know," and a decision was totally up to me, based on my own feelings and thoughts.

It sounds like in your case, that answer may be that you wouldn't know what to do, and if that is your answer, then I'd suggest you make choices that honor the fact that you don't know what to do. For example, why not put all of this on all the holds until you DO feel you know what to do, making clear to this person you need that because you NEED to know what you want and what's right for you before you do anything else, as anyone does? After all, if it doesn't leave room for you to even take the time to figure out what's right for you here, that's a really big problem, and not a problem to ignore or dismiss. If it IS right for you, then it certainly can do one of the bare basic things I think any relationship needs to do, which is to make room for everyone in it having the time and the space they need to figure out what's best for them.

[moonlight]

I guess I've got a lot of thinking to do.

I just really want this thing to work, because I am happy. I don't want to make avoidable mistakes.

[Heather]

I'd encourage you to maybe think a bit bigger, and to think less about this thing working than your whole life working, with it being one potential part of it. After all, if what you do, with anything, is in service to your LIFE "working" -- in other words, going well, bringing you happiness, being a fit with what you want and don't, and do and don't have the ability to do -- then however all the pieces of that life go is "right."

On the other hand, if we focus on trying to make any one piece of our lives go as we want it to, and that might mean the rest of our lives, or things in the longer term, not going so well, or going way worse than not well, not only will that one piece probably not be good for very long, it's more likely to be negative in the whole of our lives than beneficial, you know?

I also do want to put in a vote that I don't think any of us mere mortals is going to go through life without making mistakes, including many that were probably avoidable. That's just how it is. And it's not like mistakes lack their own value: making them often has a lot to do with figuring out how to get better and better at seeing things clearly, getting what we want, making a life and parts of it that not only make us happy, but keep us happy, the works. Making them also tends to be part of better seeing our own patterns and breaking patterns that aren't serving us. So, by all means, I think any of us wants to focus on doing what we can to serve ourselves and our lives well, and to create and cultivate the kinds of lives and relationships we want and that are a good fit for us. But I think we do better at that when we aren't focused on worries about making mistakes -- which is basically a negative and fearful mindset -- and instead focus on "doing" life or relationships as well as we can at any given time, which might often include making mistakes or outcomes we don't want that we hopefully can just accept will probably happen in some ways no matter what rather than living in fear of, if you get me.

[moonlight]

I am thinking big picture here. I guess it might seem like I'm not because I've only told you about the parts of my life that are within the scope of this site, plus necessary context.

The big thing in my life right now is not this relationship, it is my health. If I have to break up with him until I am healthy enough, I will. But this is not a decision to make until I have spoken with my medical professionals.

I am at a loss for what is "the right thing" to do here. And your (valid) concerns that I might be getting too attached are scaring me. I want to make this work, but in the context of my life and I don't know if what I am doing is accomplishing that or not.

[Heather]

So, again -- don't mean to be a broken record -- I'd encourage you to give yourself the time and space you need, however long it takes, to do what you can to get more of a sense of what is and isn't right for you, and then, once you have more of that sense, to figure out what choices fit with whatever that is.

Sounds to me like that involves some time with your mental healthcare provider, so time and space for yourself where everything is NOT so intense or pumped up, and letting yourself accept and recognize that taking that time is probably going to be in better service of what you need and anything that's right and best for you than not. I'd suspect we're probably talking about you needing at least a few months for all of that, if not more.