Scarleteen

Hey Scarleteen team, I'm really conflicted between my personal feminist ideals and mainstream feminist beliefs, particularly in regards to things like porn and sex work. I am very against the objectification of women, which is a pretty important aspect of feminist thought, and though I consider myself sex positive, I can't help but feel a certain sense of cognitive dissonance when I hear people ignore or overlook the issues present in the sex trade and so-called sexual liberation.

I understand that a core tenet of feminism is to not tell women what they should and shouldn't do, and what is and isn't empowering. I agree with the idea that sexuality is a natural part of life and people shouldn't be shamed or judged because of it. What I don't understand is why, while all other forms of media and entertainment and cultural interaction are subject to feminist critique, things like porn are seemingly above reproach. For example, violence against women in film and on television is condemned by most feminists. Rape jokes are regarded as detrimental to society's understanding of gender and sexuality. Many people of the feminist mindset actively discourage these things as they normalize harmful behaviors and perpetuate the gender inequality inherent in the current status quo. But why is it that merely questioning the ubiquity of violence against women in porn is considered sex negative, or shaming sex workers? If rape jokes are harmful because they trivialize rape, then why isn't rape porn harmful for doing the same thing? I feel that in the feminist community, it's impossible to criticize porn at all without being dismissed as radical or accused of policing someone else's sexuality.

I'm often told that pornography is like any other form of media, and like other types of media, it reflects the attitudes and trends of its society. But I think a lot of people also willfully ignore that media can reinforce those attitudes. Yes, women face lots of violence at the hands of men in our society. So this is inevitably going to be portrayed in our media. And once it becomes ubiquitous in media, it's normalized and therefore perpetuated as a seemingly inevitable part of life. When a popular television series or music video caters to the male gaze and objectifies the female body for men's consumption, feminists are quick to blog and analyze why these pieces of entertainment are harmful. A film showing a young girl of color being abused gratuitously would be judged harshly in the feminist mainstream for utilizing the pain of a marginalized people as entertainment for the masses. But when the majority of porn presents this same exact thing, but more graphic, and solely for the pleasure of men, there is silence from the sex-positive camp.

I believe that our environment has a huge impact on our sexual tastes and fantasies, as it does with every social part of ourselves. I don't think pornography is inherently harmful, just like I don't think music or movies are inherently harmful. But when these things portray and normalize misogyny or racism, I think it's important to analyze how it not only reflects, but reinforces our current cultural paradigm. Why is porn the exception to this? I think it's also fair to say that a lot of the harmful modes of oppression presented in mass media are not nearly as damaging as those in most porn videos: the prejudice in films and books and music tends to be covert and these things are made to appeal to as many people as possible, even though they may not represent minority groups well or have people implicitly internalize harmful stereotypes about others and themselves; the prejudice present in porn however, is very overt and is very obviously made for a specific audience in mind, that being men. And because men are a privileged class of people, this reinforcement of aggression against women of color or transgender people is even more insidious as it not only normalizes toxic views of these people, it presents this behavior as pleasurable for the viewer. Does it really make me sex negative or antifeminist to believe that maybe, a large population of men deriving pleasure at things like "Latina slut gets taught a lesson!" or "Black bitch is abused!" is not going to have very positive repercussions for society?

If anyone points this out they're met with the tired "Make your own porn then!" This seems like quite a double standard to me. When people of color ask for more representation in film, telling them to make their own is basically accepting their erasure; why should white people make stories about other races, or even try to empathize with them? I think the same holds true for porn.

Feeling this way often makes me think I'm not a feminist at all. I don't support the porn industry as it stands as it's very hard to overlook the misogyny rampant in it systemically. This must make me one of those dreaded, whorephobic, transphobic radical feminists. But I don't think theres anything wrong with the people who participate in it. Which makes me one of those liberal, white feminists who can't think critically about things. But I do believe, once people become more socially conscious and decide of their own accord not to support the dehumanization of already marginalized groups, porn can be much more inclusive and better for everybody. Yet I can't find any mainstream feminist oriented space or person who also has this position.

As long as sex work consists of men wanting sex and women providing it, I think it will hold traces of misogyny. People say that the women who participate are sexually liberated and empowered by their expression of their sexuality. But why is women's sexuality expressed through looking sexy? How do men express their sexuality? By catcalling women? It seems we view female sexuality through the lens of patriarchy: men express their sexuality through actively desiring partners. Women express their sexuality by being desirable. The sex positive movement doesn't seem willing to subvert the phallic-centric fabric of this social construct.

I just wish it was more acceptable in feminist circles to question how society reflects and reinforces problematic things in regards to sex. I like porn, and I think most people with sexual desire do. But I don't want to support a industry that enforces terrible sexual practices. I also don't support the bottled water industry. Does that mean I hate water and want everyone to die of dehydration? No. I just believe that giving money or ad revenue to a company that brings harm, no matter how subtle, is encouraging that company's practices. Many environmentalists ask that people don't support the purchase of bottled water. They just want people to be more aware of the impact these seemingly harmless things can have. They want the industry to change its ways by showing people aren't happy with its effects. They aren't antiwater. So why is asking the same thing of pornhub or xvideos anti-sex?

If sexualizing young girls is harmful to women, why isn't it questioned in porn? If rape and sexual abuse and fetishization of women of color is wrong, why is no one questioning the psychosocial impact it has in porn? If abuse against transgender people is wrong, how is enjoying it in porn just healthy sexuality? Why do we actively encourage the very things that hurt the oppressed by commodifying their existence to the oppressor?

Hi conflicted,

Some of how you're feeling may be the result of which feminist or sex-positive spaces you're traveling in. In my experience, there are still plenty of instances where those spaces critique or condemn sex work of various kinds (also, internet discourse is great at erasing nuance in conversations). Too, part of what you may be seeing is third wave feminists responding to second wave feminists. Second wave was highly anti-porn and anti-sex work, and sometimes third wave folks may tip too far in the uncritical direction in order to counter that. But in my time in these communities I seldom see someone talk about porn in a positive light without also acknowledging the negative aspects of the mainstream porn industry.

There's also the fact that there's a bad history in feminist spaces of critiques of porn and sex work being made by people who aren't sex workers. It's one thing to offer critiques of porn, but critiques made by non sex workers often make broad, unhelpful assumptions about what the work entails. If feminists of all stripes want to start addressing the problems of mainstream porn or sex work, they have to let the people who actually work in those industries lead the charge (including letting the workers have a large say in how the industries are regulated to make them safer).

If you're someone who likes porn but takes (quite reasonable) issue with the mainstream, there are people out there who are making (or trying to make) feminist, queer inclusive porn. Both Jiz Lee and Stoya write about their experiences, good and bad, in making those films (Jiz has been big on trying to get people to pay for "alternative" porn so that it becomes more viable), and you might find reading their takes on that interesting.

Thank you for your response. I have read some of Stoya's writing -- though none of Lee's -- and I think she somewhat proves my point. She was, in fact, abused by the industry and didn't get justice. Yes, she entered pornography of her own accord, but I think it's important to note that she comes from a background of privilege. She is white, and white sex workers typically face a different demands than people of color. She also didn't enter sex work out of a need for survival, like many do, making it a safer and less desperate environment for her. And despite all that, she was still abused.

But I'm not even going to discuss the problems with an industry not regulated to what many agree to be adequate standards. I think most everyone knows there's a lot of issues with the sex trade and the people who know it best and therefore know how best to reform it are the workers themselves. I'm not talking about the creation of mainstream porn, as ethical as it might be -- I want to discuss the product itself.

Again, I'm going to use my movie analogy. I've already addressed the effect our white supremacist heteropatriarchal culture has on our media. When someone criticizes a film for its treatment of its female and minority characters, they are analyzing the harmful psychosocial impact the film can have in general. They are not saying it's the actors' and actress's fault for taking these roles and perpetuating their own oppression. So why is criticizing porn itself often conflated with criticizing porn stars? And saying that only the filmmakers themselves can have an opinion on their intentions when making the film is ludicrous because they are the ones perpetuating the harmful social structures that benefit them in the first place.

I understand that there's alternative porn out there, but my issue isn't finding something for me to watch. It's just that I can't see how sex-positive people justify the widespread use of this stuff. It really disturbs me how it's joked about in the mainstream that every man in existence has a porn stash and whatnot. (I've seen these jokes in children's cartoons for crying out loud!) It's like this very subtle jab at women and girls: "Hey, your dad/brother/boyfriend/friends all love watching women be dehumanized for sexual pleasure -- just accept it." It also seems to be telling young boys -- "this is what men do."

Even the page on porn on this site refuses to analyze its effects critically. There's a mention of the fact that violence against women is prevalent in porn. But that's it. Not even a suggestion to be aware of the social implications this can have on society as a whole. Not a single mention or study of how it perpetuates objectification. Just a simple: "watch/do whatever you want!"

Yes, visual depictions of sexual acts arousing people is not unethical. It's healthy. But when most all of these people being aroused are men, and these sexual acts are dehumanizing at best and vicious and violent at worst, then there are questions to be asked and ideas about sexuality to be challenged. Anyone who says "porn is just sexy people doing sexy things and anyone who is against it hates sex" is erasing the very obvious role of oppression in the medium.

I hear what you're saying, but I've honestly encountered very few instances in which people, even in sex positive spaces, are unilaterally uncritical of porn. You may have had a different experience. Even in discussions in which porn is talked about in a mostly positive light, there is always acknowledgement that porn has issues (there's a collection called the Feminist Porn Book that contains a lot of essays discussing the intersection of feminist ideology and porn). In our article, there's a side-bar that discusses those. Too, my understanding of that article has been to give people a broader understanding of pornography (meaning all types of pornographic material) and that it's okay to consume products designed for titillation (since many people receive the message that it's bad to do so, full stop). We also share data on the effects of porn in our direct services: http://www.scarleteen.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2930

Too, my guess is that many third wave/sex positive feminists figure that the cultural critiques of porn are being solidly covered by second wave theorists. Discussions of the issues and consequences of video porn (and the research, both solid and shoddy) was very prominent in the work of the second wave. And it still takes up a lot of space in the cultural discourse. So a sex positive feminist is likely to look at the lay of the land and go "hrm, looks like we've got the critiques solidly covered." Or sometimes porn is included in a bigger critique of portrayals of sex and gender in the media, but isn't made the focus of it. Sex positive feminism also tried to shift some of the discussion of porn to acknowledge that porn is not a new phenomenon and is also not the sole cause of certain behaviors. It's far more common now to see a discussion of all the factors of something like rape culture, including porn, rather than a discussion solely on porn.

From a sex positive perspective, there's also a need to counter some of the misconceptions around porn. For instance, it's not only men who consume and enjoy visual porn. Women (and non-binary folks) do too. Saying that it's only for men can sometimes reinforce notions that people have about "male" and "female" sexuality (men like sex while women are repulsed by it). Or that porn, even mainstream porn, is a monolith in it's representation of people. That's part of the reason that people who object to certain aspects of porn are able to find stuff that they're comfortable consuming. There's a balance that I think gets struck by a lot of feminists between "porn is not free of issues" and "porn is unproblematic," and it's up to each person to decide where they fall.

Thank you for saying this! I'm definitely sex-positive, but I have tons of issues with porn and I'm still not sure why people stay silent on the topic. Most porn is very biased and violence is often a problem (not to mention porn actors are usually treated abominably!) Besides that, I think internet porn is unhealthy in that it conbines the addictive novelty seeking behavior of tech with ugly and abnormal material.