Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
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Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
Hello, I am new here and this is the first time I've written something so personal on the internet and it may take a bit of explaining so bear with me and please be kind. I also kind of rushed this so that I wouldn't change my mind so I hope it makes sense, but it's something that I really need to talk about.
I am 22 years old and my previous relationship that lasted 4 and half years ended a year ago and I have things that are still unresolved and slightly confusing. It involves the blurry line between consensual and non-consensual sex and I would like your opinions on the matter.
For privacy purposes, I will refer to my ex as "Jack".
He was a virgin, I wasn't. For the first year we were together, we were at it like bunnies. Any chance we got, our clothes would be off or half off whatever the case. Though a couple of months after our first time together, I got a yeast infection. I got it taken care of no problem. Then I got it again and I couldn't figure out why.
Then one day me and Jack decided to get tested for STDs so that we could stop using condoms (I was already on the pill). I got my tests back negative and offered to show the results to Jack. He declined, saying he trusted me. He told me he was fine. I prompted him again but he didn't offer to show me anything to prove that he had nothing. He simply responded that the tests came back negative. I didn't want to push it since he trusted me enough, I should trust him too. (In hindsight, this was a very stupid thing to do and after knowing him longer, I'm now sure he never actually got tested. Luckily, I am fine.) But after we stopped using condoms my infections became more and more frequent. I then remembered that before having stopped using condoms, Jack would sometimes rub his penis against my labia (without entering) and it coincided with the times I had my infections. I asked my doctor and she said Jack could be a "healthy carrier" so someone with the infection but no symptoms, and so should get checked out. Jack however refused to believe anything was wrong with him. And so I went on with having infections happen one after the other. I again insisted that he go see a doctor. He then admitted that he didn't want to see his doctor because it was the same doctor his family had been going to for years. I told him that doctor's are bound to doctor-patient confidentiality and wouldn't say anything to his parents. He said that didn't mean anything since the doctor had known his family for years. More months went by and I was at breaking point. I begged him to go see any doctor. He relented and did something about it. As far as I know, no tests were done, and the doctor only gave him the same cream I had been given, which he applied halfheartedly every so often at my insistence.
I had to wait 2 years for him to do something about it. And by that time, sex had become less enjoyable for me. I was always afraid of getting another infection. Sex became less frequent and Jack more frustrated. We would still have sex when we both wanted to, but sometimes when I didn't want to he would start touching me and I would say no, pushing his hand away. He would reply that it was ok, that he was only touching me, it didn't mean anything. So I let him, until his hands roamed too far down and again I would say no and push his hand away. He became insistent and wouldn't stop until I gave in. Which I did at eventually. Though I never vocalised my consent, I loved him and his touch would eventually get my body to respond and be aroused. And I would enjoy the sex, despite being slightly annoyed at myself for getting aroused when I didn't want to and giving in under pressure. This then became the norm, it was my fault really for giving in every time, because it only encouraged him to insist until he got what he wanted.
And so all of this, the infections, his insistence, coupled with a growing depression made my libido plummet. I never wanted sex, and he always wanted sex. We moved into an apartment together. And I noticed he had started masturbating in the toilet while I was in the living-room watching TV. I was hurt at first, but instead of confronting him and risk hurting his feelings, I decided to do some research to try and understand. I learned that for men it can become painful if they do not ejaculate regularly. I felt guilty for denying him his basic need. And then I read one woman's testimony which left me feeling really guilt-ridden. This woman said that sometimes sacrifices had to be made in a relationship, men needed sex more so even if you don't want it, you just have to grit your teeth and do it, for the good of your relationship. After reading this I felt that I was being a bad girlfriend, but I couldn't bring myself to force myself into having sex. And yet it's what I was beginning to do. He would touch me, I would resist, but he wouldn't stop, so I relented. After a while there was no more enjoyment in it, I wasn't turned on by his touch. I would recoil at it, but still he would not stop. He would try and masturbate me but I would then have sex with him just to get it over with. Never once did I voice consent, but I would stop fighting, I would relent.
One day he sent me a text. I was in class at university at the time and only saw it when I got home. He wrote that we really needed to have sex, that I should just force myself to do it so that I could just get over it. After reading it I stared at him in shock. I couldn't believe he had sent this to me via text message, and whilst I was in class no less! I would have cried in class if I had seen this. I felt like he was trying to trap me. At my reaction he quickly apologised and told me to forget it.
Two instances will always be burnt into my mind. It began as usual, he would touch me and I would say "No, not tonight." He would ignore me and keep touching me in a sexual manner. I would push his hand away but again to no avail. Then I remember him being above me, and inside me, and I could hardly look at him. I stayed still as he used my body. I let him have his way. After it was over we went to bed and once the lights were out I rolled away from him, and curled up into a ball. I remember feeling used, I felt guilt and shame. Guilt for not wanting him like he wanted me and shame for not resisting him. I cried silently.
Another time, the lights were out while he had his way with my body, so I cried whilst he did so, trying to stay silent. I squeezed my eyes shut in disgust and prayed that it would soon be over.
That was one of the last times we had sex. I avoided his touch whether in bed or out. My depression had completely taken over me so the last thing I wanted was sex. My self-esteem had plummeted and I was constantly exhausted. In the last year we were together we had sex twice. The last time, I initiated it. I was in a good place at the time and felt confident and so I decided to give it a try. And I enjoyed it. Unfortunately that was only one good day amongst the depression. And six months later we broke up. He said he couldn't take it anymore. Sadly my depression had come between us, and it is understandable. It is very hard to live with someone who suffers from depression. So there's no hard feelings there. We have remained in contact though rarely speak unless necessary.
Unfortunately I can't forget what happened those times when he coerced me into having sex. I refuse to think of it as rape because he is a good man and his intent was in no way malicious. But through ignorance he did hurt me, it was not rape, but it was not consensual either. Rather, I stopped saying no and pushing him away so he assumed it meant yes, despite not actually hearing it. Thinking back on it, it makes me nauseous and it still makes me cry, and yet he has no clue what effect his actions have had on me.
I've been wondering if I should tell him, so that in the future, with another girl, he will understand better and not risk unknowingly hurting or raping her. I feel almost like it's my duty to explain this to him, at the risk of offending him. What should I do?
I am 22 years old and my previous relationship that lasted 4 and half years ended a year ago and I have things that are still unresolved and slightly confusing. It involves the blurry line between consensual and non-consensual sex and I would like your opinions on the matter.
For privacy purposes, I will refer to my ex as "Jack".
He was a virgin, I wasn't. For the first year we were together, we were at it like bunnies. Any chance we got, our clothes would be off or half off whatever the case. Though a couple of months after our first time together, I got a yeast infection. I got it taken care of no problem. Then I got it again and I couldn't figure out why.
Then one day me and Jack decided to get tested for STDs so that we could stop using condoms (I was already on the pill). I got my tests back negative and offered to show the results to Jack. He declined, saying he trusted me. He told me he was fine. I prompted him again but he didn't offer to show me anything to prove that he had nothing. He simply responded that the tests came back negative. I didn't want to push it since he trusted me enough, I should trust him too. (In hindsight, this was a very stupid thing to do and after knowing him longer, I'm now sure he never actually got tested. Luckily, I am fine.) But after we stopped using condoms my infections became more and more frequent. I then remembered that before having stopped using condoms, Jack would sometimes rub his penis against my labia (without entering) and it coincided with the times I had my infections. I asked my doctor and she said Jack could be a "healthy carrier" so someone with the infection but no symptoms, and so should get checked out. Jack however refused to believe anything was wrong with him. And so I went on with having infections happen one after the other. I again insisted that he go see a doctor. He then admitted that he didn't want to see his doctor because it was the same doctor his family had been going to for years. I told him that doctor's are bound to doctor-patient confidentiality and wouldn't say anything to his parents. He said that didn't mean anything since the doctor had known his family for years. More months went by and I was at breaking point. I begged him to go see any doctor. He relented and did something about it. As far as I know, no tests were done, and the doctor only gave him the same cream I had been given, which he applied halfheartedly every so often at my insistence.
I had to wait 2 years for him to do something about it. And by that time, sex had become less enjoyable for me. I was always afraid of getting another infection. Sex became less frequent and Jack more frustrated. We would still have sex when we both wanted to, but sometimes when I didn't want to he would start touching me and I would say no, pushing his hand away. He would reply that it was ok, that he was only touching me, it didn't mean anything. So I let him, until his hands roamed too far down and again I would say no and push his hand away. He became insistent and wouldn't stop until I gave in. Which I did at eventually. Though I never vocalised my consent, I loved him and his touch would eventually get my body to respond and be aroused. And I would enjoy the sex, despite being slightly annoyed at myself for getting aroused when I didn't want to and giving in under pressure. This then became the norm, it was my fault really for giving in every time, because it only encouraged him to insist until he got what he wanted.
And so all of this, the infections, his insistence, coupled with a growing depression made my libido plummet. I never wanted sex, and he always wanted sex. We moved into an apartment together. And I noticed he had started masturbating in the toilet while I was in the living-room watching TV. I was hurt at first, but instead of confronting him and risk hurting his feelings, I decided to do some research to try and understand. I learned that for men it can become painful if they do not ejaculate regularly. I felt guilty for denying him his basic need. And then I read one woman's testimony which left me feeling really guilt-ridden. This woman said that sometimes sacrifices had to be made in a relationship, men needed sex more so even if you don't want it, you just have to grit your teeth and do it, for the good of your relationship. After reading this I felt that I was being a bad girlfriend, but I couldn't bring myself to force myself into having sex. And yet it's what I was beginning to do. He would touch me, I would resist, but he wouldn't stop, so I relented. After a while there was no more enjoyment in it, I wasn't turned on by his touch. I would recoil at it, but still he would not stop. He would try and masturbate me but I would then have sex with him just to get it over with. Never once did I voice consent, but I would stop fighting, I would relent.
One day he sent me a text. I was in class at university at the time and only saw it when I got home. He wrote that we really needed to have sex, that I should just force myself to do it so that I could just get over it. After reading it I stared at him in shock. I couldn't believe he had sent this to me via text message, and whilst I was in class no less! I would have cried in class if I had seen this. I felt like he was trying to trap me. At my reaction he quickly apologised and told me to forget it.
Two instances will always be burnt into my mind. It began as usual, he would touch me and I would say "No, not tonight." He would ignore me and keep touching me in a sexual manner. I would push his hand away but again to no avail. Then I remember him being above me, and inside me, and I could hardly look at him. I stayed still as he used my body. I let him have his way. After it was over we went to bed and once the lights were out I rolled away from him, and curled up into a ball. I remember feeling used, I felt guilt and shame. Guilt for not wanting him like he wanted me and shame for not resisting him. I cried silently.
Another time, the lights were out while he had his way with my body, so I cried whilst he did so, trying to stay silent. I squeezed my eyes shut in disgust and prayed that it would soon be over.
That was one of the last times we had sex. I avoided his touch whether in bed or out. My depression had completely taken over me so the last thing I wanted was sex. My self-esteem had plummeted and I was constantly exhausted. In the last year we were together we had sex twice. The last time, I initiated it. I was in a good place at the time and felt confident and so I decided to give it a try. And I enjoyed it. Unfortunately that was only one good day amongst the depression. And six months later we broke up. He said he couldn't take it anymore. Sadly my depression had come between us, and it is understandable. It is very hard to live with someone who suffers from depression. So there's no hard feelings there. We have remained in contact though rarely speak unless necessary.
Unfortunately I can't forget what happened those times when he coerced me into having sex. I refuse to think of it as rape because he is a good man and his intent was in no way malicious. But through ignorance he did hurt me, it was not rape, but it was not consensual either. Rather, I stopped saying no and pushing him away so he assumed it meant yes, despite not actually hearing it. Thinking back on it, it makes me nauseous and it still makes me cry, and yet he has no clue what effect his actions have had on me.
I've been wondering if I should tell him, so that in the future, with another girl, he will understand better and not risk unknowingly hurting or raping her. I feel almost like it's my duty to explain this to him, at the risk of offending him. What should I do?
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Re: Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
Welcome to the boards, and I know talking about things like this, especially to strangers, can be scary. I promise we'll be gentle with your feelings and fears.
Since the only question you asked here was about telling your ex all of this, or what parts you have not ever told him, I think my big question would be to ask you if that feels like something that serves taking care of you. After all, chances are you telling him this isn't likely to change his behavior with anyone moving forward, since I don't yet see him having taken any responsibility yet in how he interacted with you. And there are some bits there where he wouldn't need telling to know that's something he should have done and still could do. I also think you're assuming he didn't know some things he probably did (like that a lack of no doesn't mean sexual interest or a yes), and assuming some good faith or just ignorance when that probably wasn't the case (for example, pretty much everyone knows being pushed away when initiating sex means someone isn't interested, and it seems he had a pattern or coercing you into doing things anyway when you did that, which shows he knew you didn't want to, but didn't care, so just pushed until he got what he wanted anyway).
So, you telling him would really mostly be about you and your own wants and needs. Do you feel like conversations about any of this with him would serve those wants and needs? Does that feel like something that would be good for you?
(If you're up for it, too, you say there are no hard feelings, but I hear a LOT of hard feelings on your part, which is hardly surprising. There's a lot here to feel pretty awful about, and again, this person appears to have taken zero responsibility with you around any of it. Continuing to interact with them when that's the case is probably especially hard, especially if some part of you is waiting, as you well might be, for them to take some of that responsibility. So, we'd be happy to talk with you about some of those hard feelings or give you support in them.)
Since the only question you asked here was about telling your ex all of this, or what parts you have not ever told him, I think my big question would be to ask you if that feels like something that serves taking care of you. After all, chances are you telling him this isn't likely to change his behavior with anyone moving forward, since I don't yet see him having taken any responsibility yet in how he interacted with you. And there are some bits there where he wouldn't need telling to know that's something he should have done and still could do. I also think you're assuming he didn't know some things he probably did (like that a lack of no doesn't mean sexual interest or a yes), and assuming some good faith or just ignorance when that probably wasn't the case (for example, pretty much everyone knows being pushed away when initiating sex means someone isn't interested, and it seems he had a pattern or coercing you into doing things anyway when you did that, which shows he knew you didn't want to, but didn't care, so just pushed until he got what he wanted anyway).
So, you telling him would really mostly be about you and your own wants and needs. Do you feel like conversations about any of this with him would serve those wants and needs? Does that feel like something that would be good for you?
(If you're up for it, too, you say there are no hard feelings, but I hear a LOT of hard feelings on your part, which is hardly surprising. There's a lot here to feel pretty awful about, and again, this person appears to have taken zero responsibility with you around any of it. Continuing to interact with them when that's the case is probably especially hard, especially if some part of you is waiting, as you well might be, for them to take some of that responsibility. So, we'd be happy to talk with you about some of those hard feelings or give you support in them.)
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Re: Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
Thank you for replying, when I said there were no hard feelings, I meant no hard feelings on his reasons for breaking up with me. Of course I do harbour feelings of resentment for what he did during our relationship. I often wondered if I was raped, as the term had crossed my mind when the things I mentioned happened, but I still feel the lines are blurry. As for him being ignorant, I was wondering that maybe since the few months I started saying no and then eventually become aroused and enjoy sex with him may have given him the impression that I would consent and want it eventually all the time. Not thinking that there may be times when I eventually relented but actually didn't want it.
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- scarleteen founder & director
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Re: Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
So, do you want to talk about your initial question about saying something to him in the hopes he may act differently with other partners? Or would you like to move into talking more about your own feelings about all you went through, and how you feel about it?
Respectfully, I disagree with you that your behavior would have given him a false impression, especially since ahead of that behavior, he did things expressly to change your behavior in that way. In other words, you describe clear actions on your part ahead of that which said no, and clear actions from him to intentionally ignore your pushing away and change your mind, and even get you to basically give up altogether on your own wants and needs and just let him do what he wanted because that's how well and how much he wore you down.
That's not the stuff of ignorance. That's intentional coercion. And responsibility for that doesn't lie with you, since you didn't coerce anyone. It lies with him because he did.
And, for the record, coercing someone into sex is, in fact, sexual assault.
It might help to also remind yourself that no one is going to mistake someone pushing them away or just caving in for someone being excited to have sex and into it. In other words, people who do what he did in this situation? They know what they're doing. We have a lot of study to back that up at this point, and when we're talking about people who aren't children or don't have any cognitive or social disabilities, it all makes very clear that this stuff is almost always intentional. What makes us think it isn't isn't facts, but usually a combination of living in rape culture and, when we have been abused or assaulted ourselves, all the internalized blame and shame that often comes with that, including what parts of that we got by who abused us.
Respectfully, I disagree with you that your behavior would have given him a false impression, especially since ahead of that behavior, he did things expressly to change your behavior in that way. In other words, you describe clear actions on your part ahead of that which said no, and clear actions from him to intentionally ignore your pushing away and change your mind, and even get you to basically give up altogether on your own wants and needs and just let him do what he wanted because that's how well and how much he wore you down.
That's not the stuff of ignorance. That's intentional coercion. And responsibility for that doesn't lie with you, since you didn't coerce anyone. It lies with him because he did.
And, for the record, coercing someone into sex is, in fact, sexual assault.
It might help to also remind yourself that no one is going to mistake someone pushing them away or just caving in for someone being excited to have sex and into it. In other words, people who do what he did in this situation? They know what they're doing. We have a lot of study to back that up at this point, and when we're talking about people who aren't children or don't have any cognitive or social disabilities, it all makes very clear that this stuff is almost always intentional. What makes us think it isn't isn't facts, but usually a combination of living in rape culture and, when we have been abused or assaulted ourselves, all the internalized blame and shame that often comes with that, including what parts of that we got by who abused us.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Re: Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
Well, I will need to talk about what I went through someday, most likely with a therapist (since I am still suffering with depression) and that may go hand in hand with contacting Jack and talking with him about it. Maybe I am naive to think that I can "warn him" against such behaviour in the future. I'll leave that idea alone for now.
But yes I think talking about my feelings about what happened here on the board would be a good start, though I'm not sure where to start as I still feel a little confused about the whole ordeal.
But yes I think talking about my feelings about what happened here on the board would be a good start, though I'm not sure where to start as I still feel a little confused about the whole ordeal.
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- scarleteen founder & director
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Re: Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
You got it.
Before anything else, even what I have said so far may no have been easy to hear or left you with good feelings. Do you want to talk more today, or would you rather take a break and a breather, do some self-care, and then let it all marinate a bit before we talk more?
Up to you, but just wanted to check first. Especially if you're new to talking about this, because you may also be new to experiencing the feelings and impacts talking about it, important as it is, can create.
Before anything else, even what I have said so far may no have been easy to hear or left you with good feelings. Do you want to talk more today, or would you rather take a break and a breather, do some self-care, and then let it all marinate a bit before we talk more?
Up to you, but just wanted to check first. Especially if you're new to talking about this, because you may also be new to experiencing the feelings and impacts talking about it, important as it is, can create.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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Re: Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
Yes thank you I think I need a break. I need to think more on this. Thank you so much for your replies.
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- scarleteen founder & director
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Re: Broaching the subject of consent and non-consent
Sure thing. You know where to find me when you are ready to talk again. Be good to yourself, and do be sure to remind yourself talking is a big step. You did a brave thing for yourself today.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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