I don't deserve sex

[Obihave]

Hey!

I'm new and just looking for advice I guess.

I've been really down on myself lately. I keep seeing people in love and in sexual relationships. I feel so left out and ugly.

My past relationships have been the worst, abuse, lies, cheating. It has made it hard to trust women. I feel cursed and love or sex isn't meant for someone like me.

I first had sex at 22. It's so late, I just wasn't good enough for anyone before then. It kills me, now people my age have more experience and have a higher rate of sti's. Oh joy.

I'm really getting down on myself and starting to question my body. I exercise but don't seem to change, plus I'm older now so what's the point? I've missed out on sex in my teens and early twenties. The best years for sex and exploration. I even tried to go to bondage parties but felt even more left out.

I'm just at the point where sex is something I'll never enjoy. I feel I'm not sexy and never will be. ill never find a partner again and even if I do, I'll just mess it up or get abused or some external force will ruin it.

The worse part is I'm successful but even that I'm afraid of. What's the point of money and fame if I can't share it with anyone? It's hindered me from trying harder.

I don't even know what I'm asking. People tell me I should just give up and focus elsewhere but it's so easy for other people to get laid. I know I'm the problem. Sites like this make me feel I'm the problem. I should be enjoying and exploring but I'm not. I'm not good enough for anyone.

I know I should love myself but it's hard when no one else does. It's like gold. Gold is only worth something when someone else gives it value, if no one does, it's just another metal.

I'm going to cry myself to sleep now. Thanks for reading.

[Heather]

Welcome to the boards, Obihave.

First things first: if this is a site/service you find, even after we start interacting with you, makes you feel bad, please let us know. We're happy to help you try and find a place that feels more comfortable for you. We think we have a pretty awesome place here, and know it works for a lot of people, but no place is right for everybody, so if this isn't the right one for you, let's work together to find what is, okay?

I'm so sorry that you're feeling like this: this sounds like a pretty awful way to feel about yourself.

I wonder: can you fill me in on how the other kinds of relationships in your life are going and how you feel about yourself in regard to those? Family, friends, friendships at work, etc? Do you feel the same with those or different? And if you feel this way, or similar in all of your relationships, can you give me an idea of how long you've felt that way?

As well, can you give me an idea about how long these body image issues you're expressing have been around for? You express you exercise to try and change your body in some way: in what way? And why do you feel your body needs to be changed? How long have you felt that way?

(There's a bunch of false beliefs in all of this I want to go through with you -- like that people 22 and up have higher STI rates -- nope -- and that sex is "best" for younger people -- oh my goodness, nope -- but we can tackle those in a bit.)

[Obihave]

Sounds like a plan.

The family is going great, constant communication and love. The friendships are also fine I have a strong group of friends that support me. I'm an actor and author so not many close friends lots of competition but good inner circle.

Body issues have been around since I was a kid, chubby fat face, not that sexy. Lost weight because I got hurt, kept it off but my body was already stretched out and weird, flabby chin nothing looks right or tight. I want to be slim but my body will never have that shape now. The worst is the fat gets in the way of my cock so I can't penetrate as well if ever. I'm already suffering from going soft due to a abusive gf. So the confidence is low in the cock department. So embarrassing. I suck.

Perhaps it was a mistake to say "best" but the exploration part remains true. I'm competing against men that lost their v card at 16, 6 years before me. They have experience which I don't. Who the fuck would want me?

I don't even really know why I'm here really. I won't get the experience I want or feel sexually more confident. Sex just feels like a party I wasn't invited to and never will. People are having fun exploring and getting new experiences, they're sexy and I'm not.

I wish I was dead.

[Sam W]

Hi obihave,

I'm sorry you're feeling in such a low place right now. Just to be clear, if you're feeling like you might hurt yourself, then what I suggest is going to a hospital and letting them know that's where you're at (I know this might also be hyperbole, but your safety is important to us).

I'm hearing a lot of really low feelings about yourself. You mention your body in particular, and I'm wondering if you've ever had the chance to explore the body positivity movement. It wouldn't be a silver bullet, but it might help you start seeing your body in a new light. Beyond that, have you ever spoken to counselor about these feelings? If so, what was their take on it?

One other resource I'd highly recommend is a site called Dr Nerdlove. He does a lot of mythbusting around social expectations of guys and sex, and also offers solid advice on sex, dating, and self-image.

Something I'll offer up is that sex, in spite of feeling like it is sometimes, is not a race or competition. Just because someone else started earlier does not mean you're suddenly undesirable. There are lots of things that go into sexual satisfaction that aren't experience: communication and chemistry are the big ones. Too, even if someone does have more experience, whenever you get a new partner you functionally hit a reset button. People's needs and wants during sex are hugely varied, and will sometimes even vary depending on the partner they have. Even if someone has prior sexual experience, they don't have any experience sleeping with this particular person, so they have to start learning all over again. Do you see what I'm getting at there?

[Obihave]

Honestly I'd just rather die to be honest. I'll probably keep going but killing myself and ending my life seems so great. No more pain, no more rejection, no more worry about getting laid or dates. It sounds awesome.

I've looked at the body positivity movement. It doesn't seem to be for me. I've looked into Dr.Nerdlove and not really helpful either. It just makes me more depressed that this works for other people and not me. Just feels useless.

I think we're just making excuses for me now. The more experience a person has does make a difference, true with a new partner you have to explore what they want or how they want it, I still don't have the moves or what to say and I'm overwhelmed by how far behind I am compared to the suitors I'm competing against and lets' face it although sex may not be a competition, attracting a person is.

I think the saddest thing is my beginning statement was "I don't deserve sex" and not once has someone wrote back and said I do. I'm not entitled to it but as a person I deserve a connection and the intimacy that goes with it but I dunno, I'm probably wrong.

I'm not even sure why I go on this site. I won't get laid this way, I'm not comforted. It sounds like the answers and reasons are so simple but I just don't get it. Fuck my life. Please tell me to kill myself.

[Sam W]

It sounds like you're in a really low place right now, and I need to repeat my previous advice that if you're feeling the urge to hurt yourself you need to go (or have a supportive person take you) to an emergency room and check yourself in. Above all else right now you deserve to be safe.

There's other things to talk about here, especially around the scarcity mindset our culture has about sex and relationships. We're taught that the number of potential partners is limited that we have to fight constantly to get one, but that's honestly a pretty bogus understanding of how the world works (and one driven in many ways by the desire to sell us stuff to help us "win" that competition). But right now it sounds like your jerkbrain is yelling pretty loud, so trying to contradict it with a bigger discussion about the realities of sex or dating is going to be frustrating, if not out and out difficult, for you. With that in mind, I think our focus right now ought to be on getting you to a place where that part of your brain is not quite so loud, or on getting you to resources that can help you do that. Sound okay?

[Obihave]

Not really. It seems for everyone sex is this easy thing and I'm just not getting it. The more we talk the more hopeless I get.

At the end of the date I'll still be single and sexless and the only thing I really want for this site to make me feel like it's possible but it just sounds like I don't know enough or I think the wrong things so I just end up being wrong, single and sexless.

Does it really get any better?

[Ashleah]

Hi Obihave,

Sam is out until Wednesday and I'm jumping in because I didn't want your post to sit. I hope that's okay.

Yes, having meaningful relationships, both romantic and sexual are possible, but from what you have said here, it sounds like addressing how you are feeling about yourself is the priority. Have you talked to a counselor or therapist about how you have been feeling? If not, I think this would be a good place to start to help get through and manage some of these feelings.

[Obihave]

I have talked to a therapist. The feelings are caused by me not being in a relationship and feeling inadequate.

[Karyn]

Okay. The not being in a relationship isn't something a therapist can help with directly, but the feeling inadequate piece is something that therapy can be very useful for (as well as working through the consequences of your previous abusive relationship). Is this therapist someone you're still seeing? If not, would you consider going back?

I also want to say that feeling so down on yourself, and maybe a bit desperate for a relationship, tends to be a huge turn-off for others: far more, oftentimes, than any physical characteristics. It might sound silly, but it's true, and changing how you feel about yourself is again something that therapy can be very helpful with.

[Obihave]

I don't think I really feel inadequate, I am inadequate. I don't get dates, I don't have sex, I'm simply not attractive to anyone.

I don't think therapy can really help and the more options I exhaust the more I just want to give up, even on this site. It seems to come down to what I think/feel sex is compared to what others think/feel sex is. It's just a back and forth that no one wins. Ill keep going to the therapist and maybe even talking on here but I just feel I'm going to get to the age of 40 and still feel this way. I know people say wait and keep thinking positive but what's the point?

I've missed out, been denied and rejected, abused. Why keep going? There isn't a magic pussy that's going to make this all better or make me feel good about my shitty past. It will always will be there. I'm not going to delude myself in pretending it wasn't crappy. The future just seems so bleak and futile, and so not worth my time.

So I understand that "feeling so down on yourself, and maybe a bit desperate for a relationship, tends to be a huge turn off for others" but fuck it. I wasn't getting anywhere when I was positive why not prepare myself for the pain that will totally come?

I'm getting more and more sad with the responses I get, is this really going anywhere?

[Obihave]

Oh...

I'm thinking of going to a sex club but I'm super nervous, there's a lot on the line. I mean if I succeed then I'll feel great but if I fail then I'll be crushed. Any tips?

[Heather]

Hey again, Obihave. So, looking over your posts and the whole of this conversation, I have some thoughts and some questions. It's going to be a lot, but here's hoping that you'll find value in something in here.

I do first have to ask, however, that in conversation with me, personally, you not respond with talk about how you just want to be dead, should just be dead, etc. I have some very traumatic history with suicidality, amongst multiple people, including myself, and including having to literally clean up some of the gore from a loved one who committed suicide, so it's just not something I can talk about, and also not something where, if inserted into a conversation, I can then keep engaging in the conversation after. I need to walk away and stay away from that, because it's just not good for me. I hope that's a boundary you can respect.

So, first of all, I'd ask you to look at how you're talking here in examples like these:

I'm just at the point where sex is something I'll never enjoy. I feel I'm not sexy and never will be. ill never find a partner again and even if I do, I'll just mess it up or get abused or some external force will ruin it.

The more experience a person has does make a difference, true with a new partner you have to explore what they want or how they want it, I still don't have the moves or what to say and I'm overwhelmed by how far behind I am compared to the suitors I'm competing against and lets' face it although sex may not be a competition, attracting a person is.

I am inadequate. I don't get dates, I don't have sex, I'm simply not attractive to anyone.

The way you are talking, about yourself, about sex, interactions and relationships with others is not only super negative, it involves viewpoints that are likely to be self-fulfilling prophecies, or just cement ways of thinking about yourself and others you seem pretty clear are making you suffer and are barriers to you getting what you want (the reasonable stuff, like a sexual relationship, not a magic vagina that cures your low self-esteem, which I'll talk about in a bit).

If you see sex or attraction as a competition, you're going to go about them that way, which really isn't the way to satisfying and good sexual relationships or interactions for anyone. If you keep digging in that you suck, in all the ways you are, not only is it going to get harder and harder to turn that around, because you keep baking it in, you will be more and more of that person and for sure, nobody (likely including you) wants to get involved with someone like that.

So, one big thing I am seeing if you really want to start turning this around is that you're going to likely have to do some work letting go of stuff like this -- which is going to be a gradual process, would that we could all just dump all our baggage in one fell swoop! -- and finding new ways of thinking; about yourself, about others, about sex and relationships.

I know I should love myself but it's hard when no one else does. It's like gold. Gold is only worth something when someone else gives it value, if no one does, it's just another metal.

I find this a cynical view of our value as people, personally, and I also find it problematic in a couple of ways.

The core of self-esteem is recognizing our value as-is: without us having to do anything to be valuable, without anyone having to feel a certain way about us. So, if and when we feel our value is dependent on something besides just existing, or on someone else, that's a clear cue there's some self-esteem work we need to do.

Someone else can't make you love yourself. They really can't. You already know that because it;s not true that no one else loves you. You've said you have a good, loving family as well as a strong network of caring friends. So, you've done this experiment: people loving you can't make you love or value yourself. Again, that's work that's for you to do, for yourself. Other people can support our love of ourself (just like others can validate a lack of it), but they can't make it happen or give it to us.

But there's another big piece of all this: so far, in this conversation, I hear a lot about what you hope someone else could give you, what you feel resentful others haven't given you, what you feel you, in terms of what you want for yourself, have been cheated of.

But what I haven't heard yet, at all, is what you think you have to offer someone else. After all, there is another person in this equation when we're talking about sexual partners and/or people we're dating, and that person needs to be more than just a vehicle for our own wants and needs. We need to be offering them something, too. (And pro-tip, sexual "moves" aren't usually going to do it: we have to learn those things anew with each new partner each time anyway, but even once we do, those things all by themselves don't offer much).

You talk about having money and fame to share, but I'm wondering: what else do you feel like you have to offer someone else as a sexual or romantic partner?

The way you presently talk and think about yourself, I would assume your answer would be basically nothing, or stuff that nobody wants, like a lot of validation seeking, self-loathing or cynicism from the front. Now, I'm not saying the things you say about yourself are true or that, in reality, you have nothing to offer someone else besides money and whatever it is the fame you have might give someone else. It sounds like right NOW you aren't in a good place to be connecting with anyone, mind, because I just don't see the headspace you've gotten yourself in right now resulting in anything good for you or anyone else.

But right now is just right now. And 31 isn't the end of life: it's not even mid-life. (40 isn't the end of life, either.) I think if you do your own work here and get some help doing that as has been suggested -- and I'd also encourage, particularly if you can find a therapist for whom self-esteem and body image work is a speciality, since it's really clear you seriously struggle with both, and they're a lot of the problem here -- you probably will and do have other, more valuable things to offer than money. But until you do turn some of your own stuff around, getting into intimate relationships, however much you might want them, really doesn't seem like it'd be a good idea to me. I just suspect it'd leave you feeling even worse, and the other person having a crummy experience.

Also, you said that, when seeing a therapist:

The feelings are caused by me not being in a relationship and feeling inadequate.

I'm curious: that's a barely-starting place with a therapist, not an end point. In other words, if a therapist says that you feel inadequate and are unhappy because you're not in a sexual or romantic relationship, all they have done is listen, just like we have here. The next steps would be working to look into the why of those things, while at the same time guiding you in working through those feelings and developing new ways of thinking. So, after they said that, what happened next? Did you explore that further with them over time? Was there work they suggested you do? What was it? How did it go?

I know this is a lot (hoping my brain dump is helpful, but just two more things:

I've missed out, been denied and rejected, abused. Why keep going? There isn't a magic pussy that's going to make this all better or make me feel good about my shitty past.

I don't know what your shitty past is, but by all means, whatever it is in your life history that has you feeling this way, that's, again, something to work through, getting help with that if, as it sounds, you aren't having success on your own.

But yes: there is no magic vagina to make you feel better about yourself. Nor is the person attached to that body part able to do that.

Lastly, you keep saying you aren't feeling satisfied with your experiences talking about it here. I think -- especially since you're also outside the age group we serve, so this may well NOT be the best place to meet your needs -- it would be helpful for you and us if you could say a bit about what your expectations are when it comes to what our services can do for you. What did you come here wanting? What are you looking for us to help you do?

[Obihave]

Yes that is quite the dump.

I think we're both saying the same things. I know I'm the problem and frankly I'm trying my best to correct it. I just think that time is against me and that's why I'd rather kill myself. I don't want to finally heal myself and be at 40 years old, if I heal myself at all. I just feel from your writing that it's all hopeless.

When I talk about the magic vagina I'm talking about a point in my life where the bad stuff in the past was worth it because I got to that point. I just don't see that point ever happening. It's not so much a cure for my self esteem but hope that staying alive is worth it. If I was attractive the proof would be in the pudding and right now I don't have the proof. I'm not looking for someone to cure my self esteem, I'm an actor that will always be there. It's how we work but I'm looking for a woman to prove I'm good enough. I'm worthy of sex and I need the other person to make that a reality. I can't do it by myself. If I was alone in saying I'm worthy of having sex then that would just be masturbation.

I've missed out in my teens and my younger days in terms of what sex and relationships can offer. There's no way I can get that back and have those experiences so why keep going? I'm living a shitty version of my life and I'm powerless to change it so why keep going? I can't change the past and those are the cards I've been dealt. How can I keep going on with this bleak past? What good thing, if anything, might happen to be worth it?

Also I'm sorry that we have different views on Self Esteem or what I call self worth. While I understand that your opinion is valid, I can't help but feel it's a delusional for me. You said it yourself to me "what you think you have to offer someone else" that's part of your self worth. It's dependent on what you have to offer to another person.

And I do have a lot to offer, love, understanding, back massages, awesome Disney and Wizard of Oz trivia, cooking, etc, but if I haven't gotten anywhere with those what's the point of having them?



I think deep down what I want from these talks is hope. I want a place I can come back to and we can celebrate little victories and think of myself more positively. Let's forget what you or I think we know and just build me up. Give me hope I'm getting better and celebrate with me when I push myself out there again.

Now I want you to understand that when I write these I'm usually mad or frustrated. Let's face it, a lot of people aren't struggling with what I am. It's easy for a lot of people and that can make it hard to see what I'm coming through. There's been a lot of interesting and insightful thing written above for everyone that has posted. Thank you for your thoughts.

However I can't help but feel that I'm not the only one beating me up here. I was hoping to go to a sex club. I thought that would be a great thing to get confident see how other interact but when I pushed that idea all I got was I'd make people feel "Crummy" and that "you aren't in a good place to be connecting with anyone".

How hopeless is that?

[Heather]

I'm afraid I will need to ask someone else to pick this up with you. I'll leave a note for our staff about that.

Like I made clear, I simply cannot engage in conversation with people talking, at all, about killing themselves or life not being worth living. It's simply a non-negotiable boundary and limit for me.

[Obihave]

That's okay, hopefully someone will be better suited to help and not afraid to engage.

Thanks for your time.

[Karyn]

I'm going to be blunt here: I honestly don't know what else we can tell you. The conversation we've had with you so far, and the suggestions that we have made, are based on what we as sexuality/relationship educators know about what is needed for sex and relationships to be healthy and fulfilling, and how self esteem factors into that. You express wanting us to build you up and give you confidence, but that is not something anyone else can do for you: that's something you have to do yourself. It may be, however, that this space is not a good fit for you and that the information we've given you (which is what anyone who works in this field will tell you) would land better with you from someone/somewhere else.

I do also want to note that when anyone sets a limit or boundary with you, it is not about being "afraid to engage", and it's frankly dismissive of others' wellbeing to treat it that way. People have such limits for all sorts of reasons - including but not limited to past trauma - and when someone sets a limit with you around what they are able to do or discuss, that is something that needs to be respected.