faking orgasms

[bluejay]

Why is faking an orgasm considered to be so horrible?

I get why it's a bad idea for several reasons...

I understand that it's not doing yourself any favors because you're effectively telling your partner that whatever they are doing is working for you and you enjoy it when you are not, which will probably lead to more unenjoyable sex in the future.

I get that it can damage trust because sex is really intimate and it's totally understandable for your partner to feel hurt if they find out you lied to them.

I also understand that it's generally a bad idea to be dishonest in a relationship and open communication is always a better decision.

So I get that it's a bad idea for a lot of reasons, but what I don't understand is why someone would be so overly offended by a partner faking? Especially if it was not a regular thing, like they only did it once. Because in all likelihood, they were doing it to protect their partner's feelings. I get that they might feel hurt when they find out that they find out that they aren't actually pleasing you when they thought they were, but how is that any different than pretending to like a meal that your partner has cooked for you that you didn't particularly enjoy? (Same principle, it's still probably best to tell the truth so that they know how you feel, but the action was made from a caring place)

To me, it seems like it is considered to be such a horrible thing because the burden to protect men's egos often falls on women and men's identity and worth is often tied up (unfairly) in their sexual performance (which is why women are faking orgasms in the first place). It seems seems unfair to me to demonize faking orgasms when it almost always is done with the intention of protecting their partner's feelings. Especially when women so often feel obligated to put their partner's needs above their own. So it ends up with a woman having to apologize to their partner for their partner not pleasing them, which seems kind of backwards to me. If anything shouldn't someone feel bad for making their partner feel like they had to fake an orgasm (for not asking how they were feeling during sex and for potentially making them feel like stopping sex was not an option)?

Why are women made to feel so bad for making a decision to forgo their own pleasure to make their partner feel good?

Once again, I totally understand why you shouldn't fake orgasms, but I do not understand why it is considered to be so horrible.

[Heather]

It's hard to address this because I don't know who is telling you it's horrible-horrible, or where you're hearing that.

We certainly don't think it's horrible, just that it's not at all ideal (and not just for women, since women aren't alone in faking), for the kinds of reasons you already mentioned. So, it would be tough for us to speak to why those who apparently do think it's horrible think that way when it's not what we think, and it's not something I've encountered, either.

Can you speak more to who is telling you it's so horrible?

[bluejay]

Well, it's just that it is always the person who faked an orgasm that is considered in the wrong. This seems really backwards to me and I don't understand it.

[Heather]

Okay, I can work with that. I'm just going to riff a little bit, kind of like you have, and maybe we can just go back and forth as you like.

There's actually some really interesting and, I think, important stuff in what you're observing and asking about. And I agree with you, some really problematic stuff, as well. I'm in disagreement, I think, with how much of it you attribute to gender (since like I said, men fake too, and those in same-sex couples fake, too, and all often for some similar reasons), but on the whole, particularly in certain situations and dynamics you're describing, I'm with you on the things you are saying are problems for you.

I certainly agree with you that no one faking is horrible. It's problematic, for everyone involved, not horrible. I reserve horrible for things like people knowingly and actively doing others harm.

If, in someone's sexual relationship, one person lacked the self-esteem and emotional maturity to accept that a partner's orgasm isn't all about them (it isn't even MOSTLY about them!), and then their partner not only felt they had to protect that person from that basic requirement, IMO, of sex with others, but felt they had misrepresent their own real experiences for the sake of that partner, I think that is terribly sad and just a messed-up situation, full stop. And I think it's a sad truth that there are a lot of sexual relationships or interactions like this -- on both parts, especially if and when the partner is choosing this person who lacks the basic things to have healthy sexual interactions with others -- and not just amoung younger people. And I do think we can say it's more frequent than not with men being in the former spot, and women being in the latter (no matter the gender of anyone's partners).

But when it's that gender issue, I think we also have to recognize that probably no one is really at fault here, because men often strongly learn that men are allowed to have sex without being ready, make it all or mostly about them, especially emotionally, and also learn that men are entitled to the sexual experiences they want. Conversely, women often strongly learn that they need to just accept men as partners even if they lack the readiness, including the emotional maturity and personal growth, and have no choice but to accept that low bar, that it's right it's mostly or all about men, and that they are NOT entitled to the sexual experiences they want. As well, pretty much EVERYONE gets a lot of messages that it's better not to talk about sex, especially if what there is to talk about isn't sexy, so in that situation, both people are not only just doing what they have internalized -- and with hetero couples, heterocentrism supports all this gunk -- the person faking probably also is just trying to avoid communication, and the person who never asks how sex is going for them or doesn't appear to have the capacity to handle the real answers is, too.

We also have to remember that there are relationships and interactions where BOTH partners are faking.

See where I'm going with all that?

But I think the bigger thing you are bringing up here is that, by and large, faking doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's something someone usually does when NOT faking doesn't feel optional, feels like it's bound to create conflict, rather than creating better understanding, or feels better than the alternative (for example, when people fake because they just want sex to be over). And I agree with you: talking about faking as something only the person faking is usually choosing to do without looking at their context and dynamics isn't sound.

At the same time, I'd say that in the kinds of dynamics where faking most often occurs (and again, that could even be something BOTH partners do, not just one), the best tactic would be to recognize faking as a symptom of a likely larger problem, a problem that needs addressing, and then one should look to solve, rather than accept. If for no other reason at ALL than that everyone deserves a good sexual life, one that gets to be real for them and that they get to be real about with their partners, and faking -- and more importantly, the kind of relationships or dynamics that are usually afoot when it's something anyone is doing on the regular -- is not likely to be a route to that.

That was a lot, but hopefully some of it is of use to you. Like I said, I find all of what you're talking about interesting to talk about, period, and I think you are spot-on with a lot of what you're bringing up and calling out.

[bluejay]

I totally agree with you about faking not being a one-sided gender experience. I was just speaking from my experience and I mostly hear about women faking (which is probably because I am a woman), so I was just exploring the issue from that perspective. I also agree that there really isn't anyone to blame in these situations. I have just never heard anyone even discuss the context in which faking happens/factors that contribute to faking (from any perspective) and it always seems to just be considered to simply be a hurtful decision on the part of the person faking.

I've just been really confused/bothered by the fact that I have never really heard anyone discuss this stuff that seems so obviously problematic/prevalent to me (but I'm sure that at least partly due to people's general reluctance to discuss sex). Thanks for your thoughts! That helped a lot!

[Heather]

Do you want to keep gabbing about it? If so, like I said, I think it's really interesting to talk about, and that you had some cool insights here to talk about.

I was oddly just thinking about this thread last night, and thinking it'd be pretty great to run a survey to tell us more about people's experiences with and motivations for faking. (Alas, I have a little too much on my plate to do it right now, but I am putting a pin in it.)

There has been some study already, though, if you're interested in geeking out on this. Here are just a few links of some studies themselves or pieces about study:
• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19707929
• http://time.com/38753/women-may-fake-or ... tudy-says/
• http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/20 ... study.html
• http://fusion.net/story/28163/fake-orgasm-study/
• https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... Properties
• http://www.news-medical.net/news/201607 ... nters.aspx