Does this count as abuse?

[baffledgirl]

I'm in an embarrassing situation that I'm not sure could be called abuse or not and I'd like to hear what other people think.

My parents recently divorced and now I'm living with my mother. While my parents were together I always knew my mother was more lax about nudity than my father, but she stayed mostly covered up. However now that dad's out of the picture my mother has stopped wearing clothes at home saying that's she's been a nudist this whole time but dad stopped her from being naked when they were together.

Here's the really big problem though: Mom says I have to be a nudist too, and not wear clothes at all when I'm home. And I don't want to be naked! Right now I'm only allowed to put on clothes before I leave the house and as soon as I get back I'm supposed to undress completely. I've tried to talk to her about this but she insists that this is our lifestyle now and since I'm her child, it's her home, that these are her rules that I have to live by. She's threatened to punish me if I don't do what she says.

She's tried to convince me that this is a better way of living, more natural, and stuff, but I don't think so. I think it's weird.

I've tried asking things like, you know, what happens if I bring a friend over? Mom says that she's not dressing for anyone, I still have to undress even with a friend over, AND that my friend would have to undress as well! Mom says I'd need to talk to my friend and her parents to make sure it's okay with them otherwise my friend can't hang out with me at my home, and if I can't do that, then she'd talk to them for me. I can't bring a friend over to a situation like this where they need to take their clothes off! That's so weird. This is basically social suicide, I don't want anyone to find out about this.

I finally talked to my dad about this and he says I need to follow my Mom's rules, and that it's not abusive because she's not touching me or anything.

Thoughts?

[Sam W]

Hi baffledgirl,

I think whether or not this falls under the definition of abuse is less important than the fact that it is clearly making you uncomfortable and violating your boundaries (although forcing someone to be naked against their will certainly counts as abuse in my mind). Not to mention, were your mom to decide to be naked in front of a friend, that would also be incredibly inappropriate.

You mention that she's threatened to punish you if you don't comply. Do you have any idea what that punishment would look like?

It sounds like, for the time being, that a good plan is to spend as much time outside of the house as possible, be that at school, with friends, or after-school activities. Is that something you're able to do?

[Iwanthelp]

I'm gonna say it does count as abuse - if it was consensual nudism that would be one thing but she's forcing you to undress. That...completely defeats the point of nudism, forcing nudity just promotes shame surrounding nudity and isn't a lifestyle choice at all, it's extremely poor boundaries on her part to do that. I'm sorry you're in such a bizarre, isolating situation and that your dad isn't backing you up.

I'm just really baffled/outraged on your behalf that she thinks having an "is it okay if your child is naked in my house with my nakedness on display" with the kids' parents would do anything but tank and get her into severe trouble, there's just...no way to make that sound like a sane request.

I'm not familiar with how mandatory reporting would work in your country, would a site mod know if talking to a school counselor would make mandatory reporting come into play? I can see the situation raising a lot of red flags for them and yeah, I don't know if I can advise that since I just don't know a lot about it.

[baffledgirl]

Thanks for understanding.

By punishment I mean things like grounding me, taking away my electronics, privileges, and other stuff. Nothing that seems unusual or abusive. In any case I don’t want to be stuck inside my home being punished.

That ties into the next question if I can stay outside of home as long as possible. The answer is ‘sorta’. I go to school during the week. After school ends I either stay after to do homework, or chat with my friends there. I sometimes hang out with my friends. I’m allowed to stay the night at friends’ houses during the weekends when I’m not visiting my dad.

But all that depends on a few things. I’m not allowed to stay out late and have to return home every day Monday through Friday. If I get into trouble with my Mom the first thing she’ll do is ground me and tell me to come straight home after school. I can hang out with friends but all the parents expect us to rotate homes for our sleepovers: that is to say if I stay at friend A’s home, then B’s home, eventually I’m supposed to host. I don’t want that. I’ve told my friends that because of the divorce they can’t come over to my house and I haven’t told them why, so there might be some push back from that.

I don’t have the door to my room so I can’t just hide out for privacy. Because of the changes around here our hampers have been moved near our home’s entryway so I can’t 'cheat' and stay clothed, undressing is the first thing Mom does when she returns home and it’s the first thing she expects me to do as well.

[Karyn]

Are you saying that the door to your room has been removed, so that you no longer have any privacy?

Also, is there anyone else besides your dad you might be able to talk to about this? Like Sam, I'd say at the very least this is incredibly inappropriate, and definitely qualifies as abuse in my book.

[baffledgirl]

The door to my room was removed a while ago so I don't have any privacy. A while ago an ex-friend had me hold onto a really heavy backpack of his that I put into my room. It smelled kind of funny but I didn't question it and he asked me not to open it so I didn't. My parents found it and opened it. I told them I didn't know what was in it but they both agreed that I wasn't mature or responsible enough to have privacy for a while because I could have gotten into serious trouble with that sort of thing. I was supposed to get it back but with the new changes my mom told me that I "no longer need it". Mom doesn't close her door at all and she's said she's thinking about removing hers as well. The bathroom is the only private place left.

There's no one else I trust to talk to about this, or at least trust them to keep it a secret. You all seem to think this is abuse or bad. That's kind of reassuring, I guess.

[Sam W]

Given everything you've told us, your best bet would be to make a report to DHS about what's going on in your house. You may also, if you feel comfortable doing so the next time this comes up in conversation, remind your mom that an adult asking a minor such as one of your friends to strip would result in a call to the authorities from that friend or that friends parents (which would likely also lead to DHS involvement).

[baffledgirl]

I'll consider it as a last resort. I'm going to try talking it over with Mom some more, see if I can't get her to budge on this or something. If I tell her I'm considering reporting this that may get her to ease up.

What'll happen if I do report this? If I do that it'll be the point of no return. I'll upset my family if I do that and embarrass myself, I feel, like I said I'd rather this have been kept a secret. I want to make sure I know what I'm getting into before I do something like that.

[Karyn]

Reporting to DHS would at the very least result in someone speaking to your mother and to you about what has been going on, and potentially making alternate living arrangements for you if they determine that your safety and wellbeing is at risk. It's up to you whether you report this, but as Sam said, it's the strategy we recommend.

[baffledgirl]

A lot happened since I last checked in with you all so I thought I'd update you.

I've thought more about the DHS thing, but I just can't do it. I think the bad stuff that comes with that outweighs the possible good.

I learned more about mom's way of thinking. She and her family were nudists growing up. She has three sisters. Two of my aunts and their families are full time nudists in their homes, while the other is living a clothed life. I never knew since they always visited us at our home where they were clothed and they never talked about this. Over the weekend mom and I visited one of my aunts, who lives outside the city so she and her family have lots of privacy. My aunt greeted us nude at the front door and both mom and I undressed in the entryway like we do at home. It was surreal seeing everyone so casually naked. I think this is why she doesn't consider it weird to ask my friends or their parents about nude sleepovers because she grew up in this kind of environment.

Mom budged on some of her stances. I got my door back. I can't keep it closed and hide away in my room forever, but I do have some privacy now. I convinced her that it was inappropriate for my friends to be naked over at our home or to ask their parents about something like this, like you said. She's promised everyone can be clothed when I have friends over as long as I plan ahead and let her know they're coming and she won't mention anything about our new lifestyle. We rearranged things a bit so our lifestyle won't be noticeable to anyone who visits. This is actually super great and I'm so happy she changed her mind on this.

Now some not so great stuff. Mom's made it super clear that when my friends aren't around that "nudity is NOT a choice" for me, she expects me to undress as soon as the front door shuts behind me. I tried bargaining so she'd be the only one naked and I could stay clothed, then to me being allowed to wear underwear, then to me only being naked part-time, but she won't even consider those ideas.

Another bad thing is that mom got controlling about my body. Because of everything I haven't trimmed "down there" in a while. I got pubic hair pretty early and I trimmed in secret every so often. Mom stays natural. Yesterday I said I needed a trim down there and she got super upset. Mom says every woman should shave her armpits and legs but that shaving anal and pubic hair "is 100% a sex thing" and so I'm not allowed to do any thing down there because she thinks its massively inappropriate. This really sucks because I grow a lot of pubic hair, so much that it doesn't fit into even my most modest panties and I'm getting to that level again.

Overall this is an improvement and I wonder if I should accept what I've got so far and stop pushing. Being able to have friends over is a huge plus in my opinion and one of the reasons I reached out about this problem. As long as nothing else happens I think I can live like this.

[Mo]

I'm glad you have your door back and are able to have friends over, but what you're describing is still a huge violation of your privacy and your bodily autonomy. Your mom does not have the right to make you remove your clothes, or to dictate what you do with any of your body hair, at all - full stop.

I do still think contacting the DHS is a good idea, but if you aren't ready to do that, do you think you could try talking to your father again about this situation? Is there any other adult in your life that you trust who you could talk to about this?

[baffledgirl]

I could try talking to dad again about this, but I don't think he cares. He may have stopped mom from being a nudist when they were married but now that they're divorced he seems to have stopped caring about how mom lives her life and how she makes me live mine. When I first talked to him about this he wasn't surprised mom was nude again or that she was making me be a nudist too. The most supportive thing I've gotten out of him about this has been: "You'll get used to your new life." So I don't think he'll do anything. The way he thinks is that when I visit him I follow his rules, and when I'm at home I follow mom's.

I've been thinking about maybe emailing my aunts. They've all lived this life apparently. They might be able to talk mom into letting me stay clothed at least.

[Mo]

Sure, if you think they might be helpful allies to have on your side then talking to them about this situation might be a good idea.

[baffledgirl]

Long time no see. I kinda forgot about this place. I decided to give you a final update.

After my last post I tried to talk to Dad about it once again. Got a "stop bothering me about this" response. I decided to not talk to him again about this topic.

I emailed my aunts, described my entire situation and got a mixture of responses: ranging from 'it's one hundred percent okay for your mom to do this' to 'maybe I'll talk to your mom'. Interestingly enough they all agreed that mom has the right to dictate what I do with my pubic hair, unlike what you said.

So one of my aunts talked to mom. And... nothing happened. My life didn't change. I still had to undress and stay undressed at home.

Now for the part that I think you won't like: I decided that this lifestyle was okay.

When mom first sprung this on me I was confused and embarrassed and didn't know what to think. It was such a huge change and I thought of all the bad stuff that could happen because of it. I always thought nudism was a sex thing so I didn't know what was going on or what would happen next. Panic thinking I guess. It stressed me out big time and made me anxious. Her being tough about it and saying me and my friends would have to be nude too in the house at first also messed me up.

Now that I've done this for a long time I can safely say this: Mom and I have done everything we've normally done in my home except we've done it naked. That's it. And being naked in home doesn't bother me anymore.

Mom's kept her end of the bargain about everyone being clothed when I have friends over and hasn't mentioned anything to them. I'd prefer to wear clothes but I'm not stressed out anymore about this life and I don't feel uncomfortable either.

What I'm saying is that this no longer feels like abuse to me so I don't consider it abuse. As such I think this matter is closed. Considering the nature of this forum I know this might be a disappointing end for you because you think this is abuse but I really am alright. Thank you all for helping me and I'm sorry for worrying you.

[Redskies]

We wouldn't find it disappointing to hear that a user no longer feels uncomfortable or pressured.

If you're comfortable being nude and it's a thing you want, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being unclothed in your own home. It's a choice that some people make, and indeed, there's often no sexual element at all.

It's highly inappropriate for someone - including a parent - to force or pressure another person to be nude. We were expressing concern because you were saying you didn't want this for yourself and you were being forced. It's still inappropriate for your mother to have nudism as a house rule for you, because it should be something that you could freely choose to do or not to do.

You get to decide what you do and don't feel comfortable with, and what you want to do with your own body. By all means, nudism itself is not abusive.