Dysphoria and past

[ShadowSong21]

Hello
Okay so I've read past 15 pages of this section ( more or less ) and I seem to have quite a unique problem.
But first a little background:
About 3+ years ago I started experiencing dysphoria. It started with me hating my genitals and strong urge to cut them off when lying in bed trying to fall asleep.
Since then I had this growing feeling of being more and more distant from identifying myself as either guy or girl.
So I functioned like that for a while, a longer while, just mostly keeping it in my head and to myself.
Living as a non-binary person is really hard due to lack of knowledge from society and also due to intangibility of it.
It's especially hard in Poland where language doesn't have a non gendered pronoun like "they" and on top of that every verb ( especially in the past tense ) has either male or female form.
For the time being closer to where I am now, my dysphoria started to grow until I stumbled upon furries and I saw feminine, pretty characters who also had same genitals as me so called "femboys" ( god I hate that word ), so that has helped me accept myself for a bit.
Lately as I've been attending sexologist appointments, I discovered more of a feminine side to me, and started experimenting, since I was tired of inability to express myself or have myself recognized as true me. I ended up identifing myself as female, more of a tomboy but still female.
I've had only one person I've ever had sexual contact with it was about 5 times I guess, and that's it, and I'm 23 soon to be 24.
Also it has happened to me, that when I went to new years eve party, to which my friend invited me, we got drunk, and after couple hours of partying. ended up lying on the heated floor. I was still aware of what was going on but still could've felt the effect of alcohol pretty strongly. So as I was lying on the floor, a girl lied down next to me, put her head on my chest. We were chatting in a group on that floor, and she step by step sneakily, started making move, and ended up putting my hand on her breast and her hand down my pants. It was even before I had any sexual contact ever, and people were present there, all including us were clothed of course. Combination of alcohol, lack of experience and surprise had me mortified as to where I was just lying there unable to act or reject or refuse it. After a while I was able to get up and talk to my friend on the side and tell him, what happened and that it wasn't fine with me. He just replied "gaaaaay" and left me. After returning home and talking to my mom and my other friend ( who wasn't present there) I only heard question: "Was she pretty?" ... To this day I can't quite get over it 100%.

No that I do identify as female, any signs on the internet, that everything that has a penis is male, or "shemale", has me upset. Any cis-woman nudity has me upset, sometimes even thinking about it can get me upset. As I still carry quite a bit of non-binary'ity in myself, as of now I'm not considering any SRS in the future, as I don't know to what I could change it anyway.
There were a lot of times when any sexual thought or context could upset me, and thought of me having sex would make me want to cry. I also often wished I could be a non-sexual being and not being involved in it nor judged based on my sexual nature.
Combination of all of that causes me to experience dysphoria through the roof lately, and I grow distant from my boyfriend and try to avoid any intimacy with him, either sexual or non-sexual. Just so you know My bf lives in USA while I live in Poland so as for now it's still long-distance relationship, but it already has 10 months and counting.
Dysphoria also makes it very challenging to stay in healthy emotional state and focus on current tasks, chores and deadlines.

I'm sorry it was that long, but I wanted to make sure you have as many details as needed to understand my situation. Also both my sexologist know that I seek help elsewhere as well. I'm on antidepresants since March.
I hope it's something that isn't forbidden to seek help with in the board's rules.

Thank you in advance and keep on being awesome and doing great work for the whole world and each one of us. <3

[Heather]

Welcome, ShadowSong21. I'm glad you've found us, and I'm so sorry so much of this has been so hard and so painful for you.

Can you give me an idea of what you're looking for from us here? I'm not seeing any explicit questions in your post, so I'm not sure how best to respond.

Are you looking for support or solidarity? For help with any of the specific incidents or sets of feelings you've talked about in this post? For resources, like books, for instance? Let me know more and I'm glad to pitch in as best I can.

[ShadowSong21]

Oh sorry, I guess I got caught up in explaining the details so much I forgot to get to the point.
1) Is it okay and normal to feel that sort of conflicting emotions towards my sexual side?
2) Do I sound like I still need time figuring out my identity? Does it even seem credible?
3) Do you think my current state can be likely to be a cause of my past?
4) Do you have any ideas how to reduce my dysphoria, accept myself maybe? And what do you think about what I said about SRS impass?
5) And what to do with my relationship in a state like that? I heard that long distance relationship require even more intimacy, because of lack of the physical factor...

And any free thoughts, ideas, or materials to read would be greatly appreciated

PS: Also I read that your target audience is 15-25. Does that mean that when I turn 25 I won't be able to get any help or answers here, or will it only mean, that I'll have to wait for your free time and less busy period to get reply ( aka. still served, but not prioritized )

[Heather]

We serve people in their teens and twenties, and most often, that winds up being people 15-25. People over 30 are who we generally can still work with in our direct services, but who will basically be put at the end of the line after everyone younger ahead of them.

I'm not surprised you got a bit tangled in your first post: that was a lot to try and get all out in one shot. Your additions here make what you're looking for more clear, and I think we can for sure help you with a lot of this. It's just also a lot, so obviously we're just going to get started, and figure this is one of those times when this isn't likely just a conversation or two, but ongoing communication over time, so long as that works with you and is what you want.

I don't want anything to get lost in the shuffle, so I'm not going to try to tackle all of these in the list at once. I feel like it'd work better to start with one piece of this and take it from there. Of that list you just added, is there anything you'd really like us to start helping with before anything else? Or shall I just start where I feel like I (personally, since I'm the one here working the boards right now) can be of the most use?

[ShadowSong21]

Yes of course, I've got a lot of time, and I'm patient with progress so, I'm just glad you're eager to help, and we can take as many messages as it needs, and you can take as much time responding as it is needed ( now that I think that teen questions might be more urgent and consequential x3 )

And I would prefer to start with nr. 4 and dealing with dysphoria as it is something that has recently gone through the roof, and it makes a lot of daily stuff more difficult. But if you don't feel up for it, we can start somewhere else

[Heather]

You got it. Let me have some thinky time, and you'll hear from me again shortly.

[Heather]

In terms of the SRS, I think you do with that what feels right to you. SRS isn't just something for binary trans people, some nonbinary people go that route -- in any number of ways, just like binary or more binary trans folks -- but it's also something that isn't for everyone, period, and also may not be the right thing for a certain person at a given time.

By all means, if it's possible for you to at least get some good, in-person therapeutic support for your dysphoria, especially the most severe and uncomfortable ways it manifests, like in severe aversion to and thoughts of self-harm about certain body parts, I think that is something that could be great for you, and from the sounds of things, probably fit your needs better than hormones or surgeries could. And of course, you can also have discussions with someone who provides this kind of care professionally about that, as well; that's something a mental healthcare pro in this field is generally an ace at.

You said a lot in your first post about things that upset you or feel traumatic, destructive. I didn't see much about things you have so far found feel supportive, and help you with acceptance. You did mention having appointments with a sexologist (do you mean a sex therapist? not sure about the cultural translation between us with that term) and feeling good exploring some aspects of your gender identity: that sounded like it was helpful, no?

What else that you have tried has felt affirming and supportive so far? Have you sought out or taken part in any support groups for other trans or nonbinary people, for instance? How about reading books, videos or other kinds of media by or for nonbinary people? Do you know about Genderfork (I always ask people that, because it's just been such a great spot for so long, and I think it's awesome)? It's here, if you want to peek: http://genderfork.com/ Does looking at that kind of media feel like it helps for you, like it upsets you, or just kind of does nothing?

Do you have any friends who are either also nonbinary, or who are otherwise genderqueer or trans? If not, how do you feel about seeking some out? What about friends supportive of you in this regard: any of those, and if so, does leaning on them help?

Do have have any kind of space that feels emotionally space for you where you can present yourself, and just kind of live your life as yourself, in gender-affirming ways? Like, are there any opportunities, even all by yourself, where you can just kind of be in your own Utopia with how you'd like to be seen and accepted? Where you feel more inclined, too, to accept yourself?

[Heather]

(By the way, I don't have a bit of Polish in my language arsenal, so please let me know if my syntax doesn't work for you. I can adjust it if needed.)

[ShadowSong21]

First of all you don't need to worry about Polish-English. Even though Polish is my native, I've been using English since I was 5 years old. I've been hanging with a lot of Americans, and I have a boyfriend in USA so it's almost native to me.

When I'm talking about SRS it's one thing to consider, going with it or not, but the other thing being that there are only 2 binary options, non of which seems comfortable/satisfying to me.

So, I'm actually in an on-going therapy here with 2 psychiatrists ( which are also experienced in sex-oriented problems, hence sexologists (sex-therapists ) I guess that's actually close enough ) and in online counseling.

I do attend a trans support group in my city twice a month, and it's okay, but mostly makes me feel worse about my situation, and has yet to be helpful. I have a close friend in USA who is trans and we do talk sometimes, and he tends to be helpful somewhat, sometimes. When I actually look for non-binary people out there on the internet, what I find tends to make me feel worse.

Reading books, watching movies, videos, going through trans related stuff = makes me feel worse, sometimes a lot.

The only space where I can truly feel safe ( although sometimes much less ) is whenever I'm gaming. I can leave my body and my gender and most strings attached behind, and focus on being myself.

[Heather]

I'm so glad you have at least one avenue that lets you experience yourself in a way that feels really good for you.

I get what you mean about SRS: what you're experiencing isn't really discomfort with being "the wrong gender," so much as being ANY one gender, or being on the binary with gender, feels wrong. So, SRS isn't likely to be something that addresses that, and may even feel beside the point when it comes to what you're suffering and how you feel.

I wonder if you could tell me more about why you find that media about or from other nonbinary people upsetting. Is that how you feel regardless of the content of that media? For instance, do you feel upset when someone else is expressing the kind of struggle you are experiencing and hard feelings but also upset when someone is telling a joyful story about themselves and their gender; when they're talking about feeling good about it?

With the counseling you're getting, do you feel like the counselors (one or both) really get you? Do you feel helped, on the whole? Do you mind filling me in a bit about how they have generally responded when you've shared with them what you have here?

[ShadowSong21]

Well I have no idea what makes me not like trans* media overall. Most of them are so joyful and acceppting. And there's rarely anyone I can actually identify/connect with. They really love to use the trans label, and ebrace it, identify with it and make it a big part of their lives. I don't understand that, nor do I feel that way. Most non-binary people I've seen on media just look plain weird and act weird. And it just doesn't manifest through anything that they feel non-binary. Educational stuff just makes me remember what kind of situation I have in my pants and outside, and that I can't feel "normal", and I tend to feel inferior to cis people.
I don't want to be mean nor do I look bad at anyone, it's just my personal feeling when I clash it with myself and my feeling of myself.

When it comes to my therapies, is just mostly me self-analyzing myself like I am now, and lack of answers as usual. I just feel like I'm heading nowhere, and there's no way out. I guess they do understand non-binary/female thing and my unique approach to most of the stuff, but I can't really figure out what I should do...

[Heather]

So, is it maybe about feeling sad that you do not feel those positive or accepting feelings? (I don't think any of this is about you being mean, so no need to worry about that.) What about when you read things you really CAN connect with; people's struggles who are still struggling?

I know this is a lot of questions, just trying to get a clear read on this so I can be helpful.

When you say you can't figure out what you should do, do you mean you don't feel like those therapists are giving you anything particularly actionable? That you feel heard and understood, but that they haven't really given you any useful homework, for example? Have you ever told them you feel lost about what to do? What have they said?

[ShadowSong21]

Actually I'm happy for people who found their way, but I just feel that their situation is so much different than mine, that it won't work for me. I haven't really find anyone I can connect with to be honest.

And yes kind of, therapists can talk with me about it, and make suggestions for causes, and we pretty much analize on even ground, but when it comes to solutions everyone's out of ideas.

[Sam W]

Hi Shadowsong,

I want to be respectful of the conversation you and Heather have going, so this response is simply to let you know that Heather is not in today but that your post has been seen.

[ShadowSong21]

Hello, it's fine You are respectful either way. I don't expect Heather to be here 24/7, so it's absolutely fine.
If you have any ideas or wanted to respond to this, all site staff is welcome to pitch in, if it's okay between all of you, I don't mind and probably would appreciate :3

Much Love <3

[Sam W]

Okay! I'm going to chime in with a few thoughts and do my best to continue what I think Heather was getting at.

When you read or hear accounts of people who are struggling, can you give me a sense of what makes it difficult for you to connect with them? Is it something along the lines of details like where they live, how their supports systems are, what difficulties they face that make them hard to connect with? Or is it more that the struggles they have around their identity, and maybe how they describe feeling about their gender or their body, don't feel aligned with what you're going through? Something else entirely?

It sounds like both you and your therapists are feeling a little stuck, and that can feel incredibly disheartening. I wonder, what do you think would happen if you asked them to help you by developing some homework to do between sessions? I'm not sure if "homework" is the term used outside of U.S therapists, but basically it means giving a client assignments that help them do things like practice a coping technique or gather information about what does (or does not) help them manage their feelings.

[ShadowSong21]

Well my online counselor gave ma 1 homework as drawing a picture with my non-dominant hand, other than that they just suggest things with questions, and it's more up to me to decide on given changes and figure out what works for me, so usually no straight up homework.

So this: "Or is it more that the struggles they have around their identity, and maybe how they describe feeling about their gender or their body, don't feel aligned with what you're going through?" would be a 90+% of how I feel about it but small details may play a role in it too, as well.

[Heather]

(Just FYI, ShadowSong: I'm heading away from work for a week. You're in very good hands with Sam and our other staff -- I have asked other nonbinary staff to keep an eye out for you -- but I just didn't want you to feel blown off.)

[Mo]

Hi ShadowSong, I hope it's ok if I add a thought here too! One thing I've noticed, as a nonbinary trans person, is that (to me at least) "nonbinary" is less of a specific identity, the way "man" or "woman" might be, and more of a pretty large category. I know a good number of other nonbinary people, and we all tend to have very different approaches to and understandings of our own gender and what it means, so I don't always feel that their struggles or feelings are that aligned to my own.

Even so, I tend to get comfort from knowing there are other people who are wrestling with the same big questions about gender that I am, even if we're approaching things very differently and coming to different conclusions. I've had friends who are maybe doing things pretty differently from what feels best to me, but even when their choices don't resonate with me I often feel better knowing there are other nonbinary people out there making things work and finding ways to be happy, if that makes sense.

I'm not trying to argue you into liking sites/resources for nonbinary people that don't click with you, but just wanted to throw that thought out there in case it might be helpful. Too, I think it's important to point out that sometimes people will assume (or even outright claim) that there's one way to be nonbinary, whether that's related to your look, the choices you do or don't make about your body and things like SRS/hormone therapy, what pronouns you used, etc. and I 100% disagree with that. If you ever run across someone saying there's a right or wrong way to be nonbinary (or any gender identity, really!) that's a great sign that they aren't someone whose opinion you need to listen to.

[ShadowSong21]

It's not even about someone policing my identity... It's more about me policing myself. While it's somewhat true that I'm still trying to figure out myself 100%, I experienced first hand that there's no way to be recognized as non-binary especially here in Poland ( as I mentioned in the 1st post ) so I settled on female. That being said even browsing this forum I found a thread where one of the stuff redirected someone to a thread about masturbation. As I scrolled down it was discussed about vaginas an techniques of masturbation and article was called "Masturbation" so I scrolled down to related/recommended and there it was article "Jerking off(for guys)" and it didn't even cover any techniques, just moral dilemmas. And even that managed to upset me and make me feel like s**t. That title of 2nd article and the content it had...

[Sam W]

I'm sorry that something you found on the site upset you. For context, the article you mention is one we try not use anymore, given that the language in it is very gendered.

Given the conversation we've been having here and the things we've discussed, what would you feel to be the most helpful direction to take the conversation? Would you like to continue on the topic we've been talking about, or are there other things you'd like support or advice around?

[ShadowSong21]

Lately even my trans support group has me left feeling worse than before it. I feel like my gender isn't issue itself, it's the inconsistency between my body and how I feel inside. I'm not sure to what extent it's me feeling that and to what it's social influence, and heteronormativity, engraved in my brain...
Only way I found so far to reduce negative effects it's just pretty much shut down anything romantic or sexual between me and my boyfriend, and shut down my sexual solo needs as well.

[Sam W]

Hi Shadowsong,

Can you tell me a little more about what you mean by the inconsistency between your body and your feelings and how, for you, that feels different from experiencing something like gender dysphoria? And am I hearing you right in that group may be reinforcing your feeling that your experience doesn't quite line up with a lot of other trans an non-binary experiences?

How is the abstaining from anything sexual working for you? Are you're pretty happy with that solution, or does it feel like something you'd prefer not to do but because it's helping with the negative feelings you're willing to make the trade-off?

[ShadowSong21]

Hi,
Sorry for slow responses but I've had so much things and stress in my life lately I'm barely keeping up with anything.
What I experience is actually gender dysphoria, but it's much more grounded in social view of who is male and who is female, that I internalize, and beat myself over them, especially with genitalia. I'm actually uncomfortable with it myself, but I think my internalized social expectations are a big factor to it. I often feel like I don't have the right to call myself girl or female.

Why other trans people feel so distant is that they usually talk about HRT SRS and legal sex changing, rather than emotions and coping. And I feel like so many of them just rush through it, thinking much less about it than me.

Abstaining from sexual stuff more than not works for me, but I can't really keep it up all the time. And it somewhat works but I don't like that solution cause it feels more like running away from the problem rather than solving it. And it isn't even all about sexual acts as even looking at erotic stuff as well, or even revealing female clothing.

[ShadowSong21]

When dysphoria kicks in and I start feeling self conscious (usually because I saw naked cis female, got excluded in talking about women but something that applies only to cis women, or got involved in topic that generally applies to cis women only - pregnancy, menstruation, vaginal issues, vaginal masturbation etc.) I tend to start feeling really bad, and the only solution I find to that is to get very aggressive, decisive, goal orientated - when it comes to irl, or very immersed into a game imagining myself to be no longer me, but the character from game aim playing.
I also sympathize a lot with tragic character who sacrifice a lot or themselves to a goal, or characters afflicted by a curse, doomed to live their lives in misery and suffering.
Now even that leaves me sort of unsatisfied, because in the world we live in our days consist mostly of small tasks or chores, that I can't quite lose myself in.
Pretty much if I'm doing something where my gender isn't impacting anything, and isn't noticed or being misgendered I can somehow manage to reduce my pain.

Now people often talk with each other about celebrating yourself, spending time pleasuring yourself, practicing self-care. I feel like I'm missing on a lot of life that is being denided to me, and that'd help my well-being. But only think I can do is work myself till I drop and completely ignoring my needs, and my physical side, because it only ends up with more dysphoria and more suffering.
Not to mention my sexual dualism, that I'd really like to enjoy sexual experiences, but it's impossible due to dysphoria, and the only way I can explain it all to myself, is that that I'm some sort of a chosen one, that is meant to be tortured to grow and be destined for great things, and sexual life isn't any part of that destiny, even on the side.

I feel like with each day that I haven't found a way out of this situation, my energy, and motivation to keep going grow thinner.