Scarleteen

Hello again Scarleteen.

This is really the first question I should've asked I think. I've asked a few questions pertaining to sex/sexuality already but the truth is I don't plan on being sexually active anytime soon. If.. ever, maybe. But it's not just a choice I made, it's... I'll try and explain. I think this post is going to be long so I'm sorry for that. I'll summarise and state what the actual question is at the end, for the sake of clarity.

Back in highschool a couple years back, a few people I knew used to joke about me being a "robot" because I didn't show a lot of emotion and not once did I ever openly express an ounce of sexuality. No flirting, response to flirting, dirty jokes, response to such humour, acting on crushes, talking about sex or just physical intimacy of any kind, and of course never did anything like that personally. One day one of these people I knew suggested the idea to me that I might be asexual. I'd heard about asexuality but had never actually considered that I could be asexual. I dismissed the thought and just figured that maybe I was simply reserved/very polite/boring or something.

But as time went on I started to wonder. I mean... the thing is that I know I'm not 100% asexual, but back then I didn't realise asexuality was a spectrum. Eventually I heard about "gray-asexuality" and "demisexuality" and the like and ever since then I haven't been able to tell what I am. I will say upfront that I know I'm not aromantic. I've had a crush or two before, infatuation, and *almost* love, etc. But with sexuality it's more complex. As I said I'm not 100% asexual; I can still... get physically aroused and I think mentally too. But I don't feel a whole lot of drive to really do anything with that desire in practise. I think I have an okay analogy:

Think of crystals, particularly really large shiny, smooth, well-cut gemstones. You know how people are so drawn to them for no apparent reason? It's like it's so pretty you could just... well, do nothing really. It happens with a few 'nice looking things'. It's pretty, but it's like there's this something drawing you to it as well but you don't have any desire to actually do anything. A sort of empty, unfulfillable desire. It's like that. There could be someone who I find mentally and physically attractive, and those thoughts are in my mind like "People usually kiss and rub their hands over eachother and stuff" but to actually DO that doesn't feel natural to me (Some people see a cute animal and say "You're so cute I could just eat you!" but... I'm pretty sure they don't REALLY want to actually eat them). And the thought of having sex in reality feels... distressing. Like I'd be scared, powerless, nervous, and much too vulnerable (Or occasionally, just bored). Yet the... "sex drive" is still there somehow. The time I felt most comfortable with the prospect of intimate contact was with the person I said was *almost* love. So maybe I'm demisexual.

Normally I'd simply identify as demisexual or just gray-asexual right there and then but the thing is... as I talked about in an earlier post, I also do happen to have depression, anxiety, uncomfortable feelings/fear of general intimacy, and a few unhealthy thought patterns/intrusive thoughts etc. So this makes it complicated for me. I actually don't know how to read what my sexuality is through all this. I *could* be on the asexuality spectrum, or I *could* just be like this because of my mental condition sapping my energy and making me afraid of people. I just don't know how to tell. I am in therapy for all this, as I said a while back, but it's not doing anything yet and although it could take... perhaps years, I would really like to at least know what my sexuality is. I'm so tired of always blowing off stuff even as mild as fun flirting and not even KNOWING if I'm denying myself anything. If I should be "trying to come out of my shell", or if it's who I am. I feel like I'm always on the outside.

So to summarise, I want to be able to find out if I'm on the asexuality spectrum or if it's just my anxiety/depression and whether I should feel like I should be "fighting through this", or if it's just my sexuality and who I am.

Thank you.

Hi Danny,

The first thing I'd offer for your consideration is the idea that this may not be an either/or situation. Instead, it may be that you are on asexual spectrum AND your mental health issues are influencing how you feel about things like sex. That may not necessarily simplify the situation, but it may stop you from feeling like you have to suss out the true source of your feelings about sex by reminding you that there could be multiple factors influencing it. If the identity that feels right to you right now is demisexual or gray-ace, it really is okay for you to claim that identity regardless of the role your mental health may be playing in it (if it helps, the feelings you describe match with many of the definitions or descriptions of demisexuality that I've seen). That label may change as you move through your life, or it may stay the same. But if it helps you give a name to how you're feeling, then you get to use it.

Have you discussed your worries about how your anxiety and depression may be influencing your feelings about sex with your therapist? If so, how have those conversations gone? And if not, is that something you would be comfortable doing in an upcoming session?

Thanks for replying Sam.

I'm still not sure about demisexuality, I mean with that one person I felt closest to I still didn't actually want to be sexual with them, it was just a *bit* closer but still not even close. But you could be right. I'm hesitant to face a possibility of me being any further along the asexuality spectrum than that because I know how hard it's going to make my life in regards to finding relationships. I know there are people out there who are also asexual but I've seen the percentage. It's awfully small. And out of those people, even fewer would be compatible with me... if any. I'm probably just demi though like you said. There's some kind of drive there... sort of. Maybe. Oh I just don't know.

With the therapist part... I'm in a bit of a blackout period because I've done all the sessions my GP first prescribed and now that I still need more I'm waiting for a second referral but they recently left so I have to wait for my psychologist to sift through red tape to get me another referral from someone else. I won't see them again for 2-3 weeks at least.

But honestly I don't think I would be comfortable bringing it up in an upcoming session. I know it's silly of me to be hesitant to talk about it but going in there with depression and anxiety, they seem to want to treat it in the general sense (CBT was useless) instead of looking into "secondary" concerns. I might change therapists, but anyway umm... sexuality hasn't come up yet at all. And I feel uncomfortable bringing it up unfortunately.

Hi Danny,

I know you've been mostly talking with Sam and Heather, and I don't want to butt in on that so just a note to say that they're both out right now but I'm sure one of them will get to you on their next shift!

Oh okay. Thanks Siân I appreciate the update.

Hi Danny,

Can you give me a sense of how much reading you've done of works by people who are ace or demisexual, or how much investigation you've done of asexual spaces? It sounds like something that might be helpful right now is to see how other people have navigated some of these feelings. For example, it may help to see other people talk about how they've managed romantic relationships while also being ace. If you're interested we can give you some starting places for that exploration and reading. You're also welcome to make a post on the boards here asking for input from other users on the asexual spectrum.

I think bringing up your worries about sexuality with a therapist is a sound step to take, although I understand how uncomfortable the idea of doing that might be. Once you've gotten your second referral and are feeling like the therapist you've been paired with is a good fit for you, we could talk more about ways you might work your worries about your sexuality into the conversations you're having with your therapist.

Oh... does that mean that Scarleteen staff can't give me much advise about it here since you suggested I should look to external sources of information? Also are there no articles on the site about it or anything? I'm reluctant to post on the forums to users in case nobody answers. But I guess I could try, I don't know what to ask though. It feels like kind of a big thing to consider and it's difficult to process or know where to start. Or if I even am. I've tried to just pretend that I'm not ace for ages. Confronting it as a reality now is actually quite distressing. It feels surreal and difficult to come to terms with for some reason. It's like it... still doesn't feel real?

I haven't read any books on asexuality or anything, but I've read a few online articles and posts online about it from people who are on the ace-spectrum or in a relationship with someone like that but they've been really scarce with very little useful information. Nothing compared to the amount of information in even the shortest article here on Scarleteen. I looked around forums on Asexuality.org but they don't have articles or anything, and all the information I can extrapolate from there appears to be based in subjective opinion most of the time, or only applicable to very specific people. Some of them say you should just have sex in a relationship *sometimes* to keep the other person happy but that's awful advice, right? Most people I've asked elsewhere don't even know what asexuality is, or know little about it.

Not quite, we're still happy to offer advice and resources here, but we often encourage users to seek out multiple sources of information and support, especially when it comes to things like identity. We've covered asexuality in a few different places on the site if you'd like to give those a read: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/polit ... ommunities
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advic ... as_asexual
This page also contains a resources guide at the bottom that may give you some more places to explore: https://www.campuspride.org/resources/i ... rce-guide/


You're right that asexuality isn't as well known as some other orientations, and that can make finding information tricky (the ace community also remains understudied, which further limits how much information is out there). There's also the reality that a lot of the information out there is based on subjective experiences because sexual orientation is such a subjective thing. That's ultimately a good thing, because it allows for each person to define the experience of asexuality (or bisexuality, or heterosexuality, etc) for themselves. But it can also make the process of determining if an identity matches your feelings a lot like trying to nail Jello to a wall. That's why we so often emphasize that it's okay to be unsure about your identity or change how you identify over time: sexual orientation can be more fluid or harder to define for some people, but that doesn't make their feelings any less valid.

It's totally okay if this process is feeling overwhelming to you right now. If you're trying to parse out something as personal as your sexual orientation and also worrying what your identity might mean for your future relationships, that can definitely lead to some distress. Can you think of some things that might help lower that distress (like slowing down the investigation process a bit, or making sure you're taking a little more time for self-care)?

(Thanks for the resources, I'm still pretty lost but they were helpful. There were some ace-related YouTube channels mentioned in the resources section of that last link so I'll check them out more later; I recognised a couple of them. Thank you. )

I don't really know where to take the conversation from here because I'm not really sure how to feel. I know you mentioned that I should lower the distress but between my previous worries about sex/sexuality, problems with my therapist, my other miscellaneous struggles in life, and of course now realising I'm ace-spectrum... and having no support network irl (I have no friends or family to talk to and no decent therapist), I just feel like I'm struggling to stay afloat. I know people go through worse stuff all the time but I've been so worn down by depression and anxiety for years I just feel broken as a person, and now I feel like my sexuality is broken too. How can I set aside time for concentrating on self-care when all of these questions about my new-found sexuality are on my mind 24/7?

I agree that it's good for a lot of it to be subjective, I just meant it's hard to tell what's safe advice, you know? I haven't really found many examples of relationships ace-spectrum people have had with other aces because they're so few in number (And obviously a demisexual with a full asexual would be just as paradoxical so ace-ace relationships could still be potentially problematic in this regard) so a lot of them talk about sexual "compromise" in order to have relationships with people who aren't ace. But doesn't that go against the whole topic of consent? (I might feel a bit more sexual in the future but it's also very possible that I won't.) Heather expressed a slight bit of uncertainty around that concept in this article (5th-last paragraph):
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advic ... _and_do_it

I guess the part that bothers me the most is figuring out the relationships part. What this all would mean for future relationships? Or do you think I should slow down the investigation process?

P.S - Just something I wanted to vent about:
After finding out and accepting I'm on the ace-spectrum I've felt a bit better. Like I no longer have to force myself to be something else, and that was... nice. Until I decided to "come out" to someone I'd known for almost a week online who was being uncomfortably flirtatious with me and she thought I was "probably gay" then didn't want to be friends with me anymore. They weren't a great friend anyway. I didn't expect effects of discrimination to reach me so soon though. At least it was only minor but it still feels bad. I hope I'm not being oversensitive.

Ooof, what a sucky thing to have happen after coming out to someone. I'm sorry you had to deal with that (but a giant high five for setting a boundary when the flirtation was making you uncomfortable). I follow you now on the worries about what is safe advice. I will say that I generally agree with Heather's assessment in that piece you mentioned, in that the treating sex as compromise to make the other person happy feels like it's not going to end happily. The counter-argument I usually see is that for certain ace folks it makes them happy to have their partner happy, ergo they're gladly consenting to something sexual because their partner's happiness makes them feel good. If nothing else, it seems like you have a very strong reaction to that idea, which means that sort of dynamic is something you for sure know is not for you, regardless of whether it works for other people.

Something to keep in mind with your worries about potential relationships and those feelings of your sexuality being somehow "broken" is that you're far from the first person to go through this process. There are lots of people who've gone before you and come out the other side. Too, if you do nothing else I'd suggest you challenge the voice saying you're broken whenever it comes up. Your sexuality is just one of the many variations out there, no better or worse than any other sexuality. If it helps ease some of those fears, I know multiple ace and demi folks who have been in or are still in happy, healthy relationships. Some of those relationships have been with other ace folks, some not. So a future relationship may not be quite as out of reach as you think.

As for where to take this conversation next, that's up to you. Since it sounds like some of this ruminating is setting off your anxiety and depression, your instinct to slow down the investigation process may be a good one. What that slow down looks like is up to you, but it could be something like limiting how much time you spend reading, watching, or actively thinking about your orientation to give your brain time to adjust to the things you've been realizing. If it helps, we can take a break from this thread for a few days (or however long feels right to you) to give you some space to just process and feel your feelings without feeling like you need to communicate them to anyone.

Since you mentioned feeling pretty low lately, and you're in between therapists, do you have any mental health hotlines or chat rooms that you can call if you need support in that area? And do you have some pleasant, distracting things you could plan for yourself for the next few days so that you get at least some self-care.

Thank you so much for your help Sam. I think the suggestion to take a short break from all this could help. I'll post a full response in a few days or maybe sooner, and also try to stop researching during that time so I can process for a while. There aren't many things I enjoy anymore but I'll try and figure something out for self-care too.

You're so very welcome! Hopefully taking some time for reflection and self-care will be at least a little helpful.

I don't think I've quite gotten the hang of the whole self-care thing yet. I never seem to feel comfortable doing anything that's "just for me". My brain makes me feel guilty like I should be doing something else. Besides, my energy is so low now that whenever I try to do something I think I might enjoy, I just... can't muster up the effort to start, or just don't enjoy it. I feel like self-care is almost becoming another source of stress for me. Oh and no, I don't have any mental health hotlines or chatrooms I could use; aren't they only supposed to be used for immediate suicide prevention or something?

Anyway I should get back to the topic at hand I guess. I think the main reason I've felt broken is because I find it confusing being a gray (or demi) asexual because every now and then, I worry I'm not "asexual enough" which is... stupid, I know. Or at least I think that's what it is, although my mind has been so scrambled I'm not entirely sure. It could just be because of how that person reacted when I came out to them. They didn't seem to consider ace as "valid". Though I actually don't know if there's any point worrying about my sexuality since I won't be mentally well enough to be in any sort of relationship for years probably, if ever.

I think you've answered all my questions, thanks again Sam you've helped a lot. I feel like there's a lot of stuff that is still unresolved and that I need help with but I can't figure out what it is or what to ask. I guess now it's up to me to... figure that out; it's hard to ask for help when you can't tell what's wrong.

Mental health hotlines are for mental health support, not just for people who are feeling suicidal. Anyone who wants mental health help or support is generally who they are intended for.