Partner is Unhealthy and Yet Partner is My Type

[Shoop]

I've been dating someone recently. I would describe it as a fantasy, come to life. However, a fantasy stays a fantasy for a reason, I think. We have a lot of sexual chemistry and compatibility. I'm attracted to them. They're attracted to me. We like to communicate with each other and we have similar values (e.g., open-mindedness, spontaneity, responsibility, etc.). Their life fits into mine in terms of career and ambitions. We treat each other. However, I've noticed that they can be manipulative and secretive. There's definitely much "word play" (e.g., twisting the meaning of certain words) and lying. At times, it seems that they have dubious, flimsy morals and, when I notice that they've lied about something, they tease me. I've brought this up before, of course.

They admit that they're manipulative. When I ask them why, they say that it's because "it isn't that important [to not be manipulative]" and they "act normal," so "no one suspects that [they] lie to people" and obscure the truth a lot. Normally, I dislike this and would say, "I like you, but, if you do this, I don't want to be in a relationship with you because it's upsetting and I don't have to put up with it," but all of the other things seem so good in comparison and I sort of like the manipulation aspect, anyway, even though it's wrong. I've been justifying the relationship because, truth be told, they haven't ever raised their voice at me, called me names, or put me down for who I am. Yet, they refuse to budge on this, at all. How do I talk sense into myself? Is it that bad?

[Sam W]

Hi Shoop,

When someone feels like they were dropped into your life straight out of your fantasies, it can be so tempting to push things that set off your alarm bells to the side. That can be even easier when the red flags don't read as automatically abusive (being comfortable with, and proud of, being manipulative often doesn't seem as threatening in a partner as yelling or name calling). But something about this dynamic is making you uneasy, and I'd suggest you keep that feeling around instead of trying to brush it off. Even if you haven't caught them lying or manipulating you yet, or to a degree that hurts you, I feel confident say that moment is coming (after all, it sounds like they feel like manipulation is a great way to get what they want, which spells bad news for you the moment you try to set boundaries with this person). Too, there's the fact that even though there are lots of other levels of compatibility here, lying and manipulation is a terrible foundation for a relationship. Relationships where dishonesty is a key player don't generally last, and that dishonesty ends up torpedoing all the good aspects.

Reading over what I wrote, what are some of your first thoughts or feelings? How do you feel about the high probability that you will be lied to about things that are important to you?

[Shoop]

Before we dated, they lied to me in the form of gaslighting. It made me second-guess important incidents in my life that they were involved in. Later, they told me that they didn't like it, but it "met its purpose" and they no longer care what I think of it. I've discovered them lying about important aspects of my friend's life, too, to the point that it gave them insecurities. When I casually mentioned that my friend seemed disturbed, they feigned ignorance and told me that they'd look out for them for me. A few weeks afterward, I found out that they had been the cause of it.

They've said that they don't have reason to lie to me now, which I don't believe because they've lied in the past. However, they do tell me more information about their life than before and they invite me to talk about things and give them my opinions about it. Sometimes, when they talk, it seems that they don't really care what I'm saying though? It's like they think that it's amusing and entertaining for them to get different opinions, but ultimately none of it really matters. Their eyes just seem sort of "happy, but dead." I don't know what to make of it, I'm sorry.

Edit: I've just remembered, they did apologise for lying before, but it seemed fake, not to mention they admitted to the gaslighting before I realised it.

[Heather]

Honestly, this person is an emotionally abusive person by any standard definition.

I will always advise anyone to get away from abuse and abusive people, because it is the only safe, sound and responsibile advice to give and the only thing that would protect and support your emotional well-being. I would advise you start making a plan now to begin doing what you need to to separate and stay away from this person.

That they could be more abusive, or other kinds of abusive; that you think you may in some way like that they are manipulative: these aren’t sound, healthy or good reasons to stay with them. They’re actually further red flags as well as signals you may have normalized some kinds of abuse, which makes you extra unsafe with or around abusive people.

Can I give you some links and tips so you can at least consider getting out of this?

[Shoop]

Sure, I don't mind. I'm sorry for the response rate. I was watching a comedy stand-up film with my mother. My partner and I don't live together. Their apartment is in the city because their job pays well. Everything that I've heard about the job seems dubious. That's a red flag, I guess. We're some distance away from each other. They have OCD; I haven't brought anything but spare clothes over there. They don't seem violent, but I've been told that they've responded violently in self-defence, during a job(?). Did you have any links in mind?

Edit: To clarify, I doubt that they'd attack me. They have a philosophy against violence, which is strange to me.

[Heather]

You know, emotional manipulation and abuse is a violence, just to be clear. But then, you're with someone who literally seems to pride themselves on being a master manipulator, so they're going to say a whole lot of things that sound smooth and you swallow without being like, "Hold up, WHAT?" when they aren't actually true.

I hear you saying you don't think you'd need to make any kind of a plan to leave, but that you could just choose to not see them again and that'd be that. Do I have that right? It doesn't sound like that, because they have clothes over there they'd probably try and collect, and you would still need to break up with them, which can be very hard to do with someone manipulative you know manipulates you well. But you also know your situation far better than I.

In the case that this is just about giving you information to help you consider the benefits of leaving them, I'm not sure we have a whole lot on that, since it's generally pretty apparent that being out of something emotionally abusive is better than being in it. But I can poke around a bit for you if you'd like: we certainly have some pieces where we've had this kind of talk with other users.

[Shoop]

I could decide not to see them, but they might visit me. I don't think that I'll collect my clothes, if I decide to leave them. A part of me doesn't want to leave them. I think that they sympathise with me more than anyone else in my life. When I feel sad, they cheer me up and they do respect my consent, more than others. Additionally, I was referring to this, thank you: "Can I give you some links and tips so you can at least consider getting out of this?" I didn't know what you meant; whatever you're considering, I would be happy to agree to look at it.

[Heather]

If what you're saying is everyone else in your life is more abusive than this person is or you think could be, then that suggests you need some pretty serious help getting free of a bunch of abuse and probably some help learning to live without abusive relationships and to start finding and constructing healthy ones. To be clear: NO ONE has to accept any kind of abuse to have interpersonal relationships. If you want some help getting out of or away from a web of abuse, please let us know.

And some real talk, even though I know it sucks: someone who sounds as admittedly manipulative and narcissistic as this person probably can't sympathize with you. They literally may lack the capacity for sympathy or empathy with you or anyone. But they probably have gotten pretty good at faking it, from the sounds of things, as most narcissistic people do. Heck, it sounds like even when you get the sense they are faking it, you have learned to dismiss your own experience of that.

And okay, on the links. Here are a few places I'd suggest you start:
• Should I Stay or Should I Go?
• Hello, Sailor! How to Build, Board and Navigate a Healthy Relationship
• Blinders Off: Getting a Good Look at Abuse and Assault
• And off the site, https://www.whatiscodependency.com/what ... tic-abuse/ and https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/un ... -they-love

[Shoop]

I guess that my parents are abusive. Thank you for the articles. I have tried to reach out to other adults, especially those who are in involved with youth rights, because they might be able to sympathise with me. Currently, I plan on finishing my grades and trying to find part-time work, an ID, a private bank account, and access to transport and a mobile phone. Then, I'm going to avoid suspicion by keeping up appearances with my parents and talking about moving out as little as possible before I leave them. Does this sound good to you?

[Heather]

You might also consider reaching out to other peers around your age, not just adults. But if you'd like qualified help with in-home abuse -- including so that you can see if you have any option of leaving it sooner rather than later -- I'd be happy to help you find some local resources.

Are you asking for help making a plan to move out of your home, and to do so safely to best avoid abuse? If so, it'd help to know more about what's going on there and what kind of timeline you're thinking about.