Scarleteen

Hello Scarleteen
I just left an appointment with a doctor leading my case, and he said that he thinks it's time to put me on hormones. Last visit he was questioning my identification.
I'm really freaked out about the idea of hormones and I'm panicking. Is it really a good idea? I asked myself that question 1000 and more times. It's been over 3 years since In struggling with my identity and body. I don't know what to do anymore...

Hi Shadowsong,

I'm sorry to hear that the appointment left you feeling stressed and panicked. It's ultimately up to you whether you want to start hormones now, later, or never, regardless of what your doctor is recommending (and it's absolutely okay to be unsure about whether or not you want them). That being said, maybe we can use the space here to give you a place to process some of your feelings and concerns about hormones so that you can develop a sense of whether they're something you even want on the table. When you're thinking about whether to start hormones, what parts of the process worry you? Are there things that appeal to you about being on hormones?

Hi Sam
First of all I've known that something was off for about 4-5 years and I've been going to this doctor and therapy gender-focused for about 3 years.I'm still afraid that hormones might not be that I want.
First of all I'm afraid of such a big change, and I'm still asking myself "what if I'm not transgender?" "what if I change my mind?" "what if I change to much as a person?"
Secondly, I consider myself to be non-binary, and that was the place where I started my journey 5 years ago. Through the process of therapy I started realizing that my expectations to function as a non-binary person in society wasn't realistic and I was advised to explore more, and I found myself to be more comfortable in feminine expressions, grammatical forms/pronouns etc. I'm still not such a big fan of breasts though, especially big breasts ( when it comes to my body ofc).
Thirdly I would say that my genitals are the biggest source of dysphoria right now, and HRT won't really solve that. And in this area I'm kind of stuck cause I'm not really sure if I would feel more comfortable with the other set of genitals ( not mentioning that I don't have the money now or in nearest future to make it possible even if I wanted )

I'm constantly comparing myself to cis people, and I'm jealous of them. I know I would be even less comfortable if my body was more masculine, more broad, more hairy etc. I have other reasons that make me question that decision but those are transphobic ( and I only apply that to me, I'm very respectful of other trans people ), so I probably shouldn't put the here, cause they can make other people feel bad.

And one more odd thing. For some reasons I just hate hate hate being called a man, I'm not very fond of woman as well but it's already better than man, at least it lies closer gender wise. For some reason I much more being prefer being called either a boy or a girl ( slightly more gender appropriate) even though I'm already 24 years old...
And one more thing that makes me ask myself, that maybe I'm just a very effeminate boy ( and yes it can be considered of a stupid issue) is the fact that I'm part of Furry fandom, and in the fandom there are characters called femboys. They dress and act stereotypicaly feminine, they have feminine body, but they have a penis, yet people still label them as male/boys. And that for some reason confuses me a lot, cause they represent a lot of how I look like and how I feel ( maybe apart from my confusion about genitals), yet people label them as they do. And that makes me question whether I'm maybe not actually a girl.

I'm sorry for the long post and spaces. I tried to make it somewhat readable. As always I very much appreciate help and support you guys provide every day, even though I don't repeat that as much as I should. I'm also considering to volunteer for you guys in the future, provided I can be of any use ^_^. Thank you again! <3

It sounds like, given all of the things you're feeling, that HRT is something to put to the side for now (or possibly forever). You've pointed out that HRT wouldn't address one of the main sources of your dysphoria, and that you're still navigating the process of working out how you want to present yourself and label yourself. If HRT is something you feel you don't want or feel very ambivalent about, then it's something you get to pass on doing. There are plenty of trans and non-binary people who decide that HRT is not for them, and not wanting HRT doesn't invalidate any of conclusions or feelings you've developed about your gender. Does any of that help clarify the decision around HRT for you at all?

That being said, there are still large chunks of the healthcare community that have a narrow or misguided view on how to work with trans or non-binary clients. For example, plenty of providers still assume that HRT and surgery are the correct course of care for a trans or non-binary client, so they'll recommend it even if the client hasn't expressed a desire for it. Since it sounds like your current provider may fall into that category, do you have the option of switching to a new provider? And if that's not an option, how comfortable do you feel advocating for yourself around this topic with this provider?

Sam, thank you for replying.
I actually brought up HRT many times with my provider, and he's known as a best doctor in Poland even recommended by Heather to me couple months ago, while I was under his eye.
Problem is that my doubts and confusion haven't clarified lately, and considering how long I've been processing all of that, and the amount of dysphoria and suicidal thoughts I experience, and how much it impacts my life, I feel like I'm out options at this point. The doctor seemed to feel that way to, and said that we could try putting me on HRT and worst things possibly I would end up with is gynecomastia.

Ah, I follow now (and I'm glad to know you're seeing a provider who comes recommended). Since it sounds like you and he have been discussing possible outcomes of HRT, have you also gone over which side effects would reverse if you decided to stop and which ones would remain? And if so, when you think about those effects how do you feel about possibly experiencing them? Does it feel like a preferable option to try it so that you at least know what it does for you rather than continuing to wonder if or how it might help you?

So I decided and convinced my doctor and I'm going on hormones soon TM. Probably about a month or two. I guess it can make regular living a bit easier over time, but unfortunately, nothing can fix my sex life

Hi Shadowsong,

Glad to hear you've come to a decision on hormones that feels right for you and that you have your doctor's support for that plan.

It sounds like you're struggling with some feelings around your sex life right now. Would you like to talk more about those? And have you had a chance to bring that struggle up with the therapist you're seeing (if I'm recalling correctly, one of the people you were seeing had some training as a sex therapist)?

Yes thanks. Both my therapist and my doctor know about it but don't know any details, guess there's never time for those over the usual stuff. I recently traveled to US to meet my boyfriend of 1.5 years for the first time. Skipping through all the social troubles with his family, sex wasn't all that great, it was scarce and kinda stiff. He explained to me after I came back it's because he was very nervous about everything. I guess if we had more than 3 weeks together many things could be worked on, but it bothered me that he was much more comfortable doing most stuff, including back oral and whole body, but when it came to front oral, he was petrified every single time, even though he said it was okay. Every single time I pulled back with it seeing his reaction to respect him, but deep inside I felt worse, unattractive, rejected and it made my dysphoria much worse. And I was already iffy trying anything with the front.

And with that said like whole of my front, my genitals are useless because my boyfriend has no interest in me penetrating him ( it would make my dysphoria very bad but I would try it ), he's petrified in contact with oral, so they are of no use...

And after coming back my genital dysphoria got so much worse that I can't even masturbate anymore, many encounters with porn (especially feminist ethical porn like CrashPadSeries) or trying to pleasure myself end up with suicidal thoughts, huge depression strikes, crying, anger, feelings of hopelessness etc. I feel like I'm being denied something that I want which is normal sex life without thinking whether the consequences are gonna be worth trying... :/

Also I don't know why but it very much upsets me seeing in porn people like me, doing something, that I wouldn't do. I feel like it's gonna be expected of me, which would kind of belittle me and make my dysphoria so much worse.

I'm so sorry to hear all of this. I can understand feeling hopeless, resentful and angry in the face of all this. I agree that it seems like everyone should have the right to a sexual life they enjoy. I can't speak for "normal," because there really is no normal when it comes to sexuality. But I think I understand what you mean, and for sure, it just seems unjust at how hard it is for some to have to struggle so hard to create and have that basically enjoyable and wanted sexual life. I'm sorry that's the spot you keep finding yourself in. Here's hoping this will -- and it truly probably will, even though I'm sure it is hard to believe that right now -- turn around for you, hopefully sooner rather than later.

So, right now, it seems there are a couple things. For one, it sounds like maybe you found out this guy might not be a good fit for you as a sexual partner: if nothing else, if you were feeling the way you described with them sexually, like having sex with them make you feel more dysphoric, and rejected, that just sounds like a clear no-go of a sexual partnership to me. That happens often enough: in other words, people are dating, then go to be sexual together, and find that they aren't compatible or that it just isn't a good fit. Or they find they work together well sexually in some ways, but not others. That happens a lot no matter what kind of body someone has, or what kind of gender identity. Do you know what you want to do from here, now that you have experienced that part of the relationship? This, to me, isn't an issue about troubles with sex in general, but about one particular person and your sex life with them, specifically. Do you want to continue this relationship, and if so, do you want to continue it as a sexual relationship?

Also I don't know why but it very much upsets me seeing in porn people like me, doing something, that I wouldn't do. I feel like it's gonna be expected of me, which would kind of belittle me and make my dysphoria so much worse.

Most folks are going to see people like themselves in some way doing sexual things they wouldn't in porn. For sure, sometimes people do foolishly get the idea it makes sense to expect things of people sexually they see in porn. But that's on them, really. It's not on us to meet people's sexual expectations like that, no matter who we or they are. Even if someone did something IRL with a partner they had like us (or not) before, that doesn't mean they should expect the same of us or that we owe that thing to them.

But it sounds like you're talking about something more specific, or maybe you're asking how to avoid those kinds of partners? Can you fill me in on this one a little more? Thanks.

No I want to keep this relationship, he's the only thing I have, I have no friends or family. I don't know what I would do if I broke up with him. No one ever expressed interest in me in a healthy way other than him... He explained to me it was due to stress and nervousness, and that taste threw him off and he couldn't decide whether he was enjoying it or not. If that didn't make me feel dysphoric other things would, enough said I can feel very dysphoric on my own.

When it comes to porn, it's about transgender females penetrating cis females ( or males). That sets off my dysphoria. Also I feel like everywhere, even in feminist ethical porn, trans females are treated in an awkward way, like they aren't really girls. Acting weirdly around their genitals etc. it's hard to put into words really. Also I have this strong strange feeling that once very present emphasis on "male pleasure" was somewhat reversed and now cis girls feel entitled to being penetrated and pleasured and it also manifests in trans girl on cis girl porn... I don't know, maybe I'm imagining thing...

Also by any means don't mean all cis girls, and that also isn't very objective, it's my internal feeling.

And when it comes to turning my relationship into not sexual one it's pretty much done, I'm back now in my country, and he's in his, so we have no sexual relations for now and some time ahead.

When it comes to porn, it's about transgender females penetrating cis females ( or males). That sets off my dysphoria. Also I feel like everywhere, even in feminist ethical porn, trans females are treated in an awkward way, like they aren't really girls. Acting weirdly around their genitals etc. it's hard to put into words really. Also I have this strong strange feeling that once very present emphasis on "male pleasure" was somewhat reversed and now cis girls feel entitled to being penetrated and pleasured and it also manifests in trans girl on cis girl porn... I don't know, maybe I'm imagining thing...

Women, period, certainly aren't the market for almost any pornography, so it's safe to say whatever women's wants in porn are, they are rarely informing the choices of anyone making porn, even when we're talking about queer or feminist porn. However, I'm not an avid pornography pursuer, and it's been a long, long time since the days I reviewed it, so it might be that what you're feeling is a thing you're feeling because that is going on, and I haven't seen enough of it lately to know about it. I don't want to just make the assumption here that it's not: I have to assume you are having those feelings for a reason. But what I wouldn't do is assume porn is telling you about what someone in real life -- be it a cis girl or anyone else -- will want of you, expect of you, or that you're obligated to provide.

I absolutely can say you're not imagining things to be seeing transphobia in porn: absolutely it's in there, just like it's in everything. And for sure, porn has long been a place where I think it's very fair to say that transgender women have been even more objectified than cisgender women have.

In terms of your relationship, I do just want to say that the fact that this is SO FAR the only person who will ever express an interpersonally healthy interest in you. Staying with someone because you feel like they are all you have now and will ever have is never a great place to be having a relationship from, because it can set us up to tolerate pretty much anything, as well as often to cut ourselves off from relationships with others that are better for us (or that are additional relationships we can have). But it sounds like you know you want to stay in this for right now, and you feel like the sexual stuff isn't relevant again any time soon, so how you think you can manage that is because it won't be a thing to manage again unless you see each other in person?

I guess, I just shouldn't watch porn or masturbate, but it's not a fun life to live...

I know it sounds bad the way I describe it but it's true. Our relationship is great outside of sex, He's thoughtful and considerate. We never fought with each other. He has issues to as he has abusive family and social anxiety that he's battling. I'm trying to give it time but sometimes I feel like I'm handicapped by him unfortunately, but I don't want to waste a potential of what this soul understanding could be. I would want to get him out there, on social media, invole him in his passions, make him get a job and work with me towards our future, but I'm fighting my own demons and have very little energy left to fight his. But he's a good person and treats me with understanding and respect like no one ever had, never once misgendered me or made me feel bad outside of those 2 times in sex...

If you like, we could talk about ways to do at least one of those things in a way that it's more of what you want and less of what you don't (porn is a little less flexible, since it's media that someone else is making, but even then, you probably have options). I can't tell if that first sentence there was just a bit of throwaway snark from feeling (understandably) exhausted, or if you really are feeling like the only way to have one or both of those things not be awful is to not do them at all anymore.

I wasn't judging you in how you described it, and I assumed that you said that because, so far, it is true. I'm sorry that's the case. It's a lot of stress and pressure and just generally very difficult (for everyone involved) to feel like only one person in the whole world is who we get to have an intimate relationship with safely.

I do want to say something about this, though:

I would want to get him out there, on social media, invole him in his passions, make him get a job and work with me towards our future, but I'm fighting my own demons and have very little energy left to fight his.

This doesn't sound healthy to me. This sounds like how a parent talks about a child more than how people in a partnership of equals talk about each other in most circumstances. I say "in most" because the circumstances I do hear this in in relationships between adults are often when someone in the relationship is doing something like battling with long-term illness or disability. But even then, it'd be problematic to "make" someone get work or do things they aren't choosing to do. You also describe yourself as being held back by him. But it sounds like you two only usually interact online or otherwise not in each other's day-to-day lives, so what do you think about, if you're going to stay in this, conducting your life in a way that isn't so -- this sounds this way, anyway -- codependent? In other words, where the things you want from him are just that, but you leave them and concern yourself with living your own life, and see what he does with his? Where you do NOT try and do battle with his "demons," but recognize they are his, not yours to do battle with, and what you can just do is be supportive, and vice-versa?

Hi Shadowsong!

I wanted to chime in here since I have some personal experience with some of the issues you brought up.

Heather is right on with their concerns about your relationship; I know firsthand how scary it is to feel isolated and alone, and convinced that SOMEONE is better than NO ONE, but trust me, that is definitely not the case. It sounds like you could really benefit from connecting with like-minded people, and you mentioned being part of the Furry community, which might be a good place to start. Are there meetups and socials where you are that might give you a chance to interact with people in person, if you're not already? For that matter, are there community events with other members of the trans community that you could go to? Being around fellow trans people can be such a huge boost, and may help you dig into some things with people who share experiences with you.

I also wanted to explore some of your comments about both gender and hormones a bit. You said above that you're not sure you're a girl, which is totally okay! When I was growing up, I was certain that I was not a girl, but I was also pretty sure I wasn't a boy, and it wasn't until I was in college that I learned there are lots of people who aren't either of those things. Have you explored nonbinary and gender nonconforming communities at all? You might find something that resonates with you in those spaces.

It's also totally okay to put hormones on hold for a while as you think about these things. While many of the effects of estrogen are reversible and will stop if you decide to stop taking it, it can take a while, and if you're feeling uncomfortable at the prospect, it might be good to put the brakes on. It will always be there if you need it.

I'd love to talk through one or both of these things with you; it's hard to deal with larger things in life if you're feeling uncomfortable in your own skin.

I have some recommended reading you might want to check out:

Here's Mo on being uncertain about gender and working through that process: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/gende ... e_a_bummer

Here's Elizabeth on girldick, which might give you some insight into some of the dysphoria you're experiencing: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/bodie ... t_girldick

Heather, thanks for replying. I've been messaging you in strong emotions, situation with my boyfriend isn't as bad as you think, it's not like I'm making him do things and he refuses, it's more of him having his obstacles and needing encouragement, a little push, some advice or me checking up on how things are with something to get him motivated. Yes I mean when you're in relationship you decide to share some of your lives between partners, and concerns are not your alone to handle anymore, and maybe you're right that at times I worry to much about my share of impact on his life and situation. I do love him and not only fear keeps me by his side. I feel more and more like it sounded like it's the case...

When it comes to masturbation and porn, I'm more or less convinced that I can't really do anything about the bad influence it has on me, but on the other hand I don't want to stop myself, so I keep doing it from time to time despite the consequences. I'd be more than happy and thankful if we could talk and think of some ways to decrease those consequences.

Hi Sesmith
Thanks for pitching in. Like minded people surely isn't most people irl especially in Poland. I have a very distinctive "online personality and way of outlook on the world". I have tried over and over and over again to make connections with people in Poland and I fail miserably every time, while most online relationships I've had, and even brought to irl were amazing and didn't change. I haven't met any furries irl, or not many of them, and the ones I've known didn't treat me right as a transgender person, they were very sexualized and were interested mostly in that side of the fandom ( not saying that I'm not, but not to that extent), and they were gay males. Other scarce furries I got to know weren't really into talking me about fandom that much. I haven't heard of any conventions being held here anyway. I do have my trans support group twice a month and I am at 4 polish online Facebook support groups, and all I can say that interacting with them on trans focused things gets me to feel much worse 85% of the time... From what I hear from them and read about, I don't have many shared experiences with them, because we feel those things in very different ways.

I've been on hold for hormones about 3-4 years now and I'm pretty sure I do want to try them out. I kn ow about their effects. I haven't explore communities for NB people but I do identify myself as one, and started of with identifying as one. Here's my previous thread that might give you more insight on my journey so far: http://www.scarleteen.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6625

I'd be happy to talk with you about all of it, and thank you for replying. Also I'll definitely give those articles a read.

Hope both you are well, and I very much appreciate your willingness to talk it out with me. Thank you!

Hello again! Thank you for linking your older thread, it gives me much more context about what you're going through — it sounds to me like a lot of trans spaces (and advice) aren't helpful for you because you feel like they focus on physical logistics of transition, rather than emotional experiences?

And connecting online is still connecting! I definitely don't believe that online friends 'don't count' because you haven't met them in person; once you find a corner of the web with people you relate to and feel safe around, it can be really beneficial. But you do sound a little isolated and lonely, and I'm wondering about ways to address that, whether online or off—what kinds of online communities have you explored? And have you been invited to any locked or unlisted sites? Private sites often host really supportive, thoughtful networks of people and can be a safer space to open up.

Sometimes going on hormones can be a really transformative click moment. I hope it is for you! Having hormones we don't want muddying the waters can take a real emotional toll in multiple senses. As Heather mentioned in your other thread, I also think it would be a good idea to push your therapist to meet with you more frequently, especially during the adjustment period with hormones.

I've also been thinking about your frustrations with porn, particularly your discomfort with things like Crashpad. Erotica may not be your jam, but it does allow for a lot more control, and it tends to be much more diverse and may furnish affirming stories of sexuality and embodiment that are enjoyable for you to read; is that something you're interested in at all?

Yes most trans person I speak to talk only about physical logistics of transition. They also feel fully comfortable or at least much more comfortable with trans label and acknowledging differences. I have few people I spoke with and follow on Twitter. I see many respecting and validating people there both trans and cis. My polish Facebook groups are much less validating, physical logistics focused, and laugh and mock the pain away, kind of people. I also still attend bi-month support group in my city, dominated by transmen and transmasculine people. I never was invited to anything like closed secret things online except for couple Facebook groups.

I can't really push for more therapy visits. And doctor deciding about hormones and leading it I see couple times a year right now I have to wait 4 months. And it hurts and I'm getting impatient. There are just so.many people using their services and such long queues.

I never really dabbled in erotica and I have no idea if I'd like it, if it would work for me. I also wouldn't know where to start trying it. Part of the problem still lies in my body image and it bothering me how it works...

I also admitted to myself yesterday for the first time that I have an alcohol problem. I wouldn't say I was full blown alcoholic but it was certainly going that way. It would've got there already if I wasn't watching myself and stopping, but I still missed some important signals. Doctor also told me I need to quit smoking before HRT so that is painful and challenging as well.

Just an update. I got hormones and started taking since 20th of Feb. Still no idea how I feel about it, but I made that decision.

That's a big deal!

It is a big deal? I don't feel like it is. I just feel like I did what I could for now about my dysphoria and just went on about my life. I'm not really expecting or waiting for anything to happen to be honest. It's weird but everyone is hyping it up except for me.

If it doesn't feel like a big deal to you, or it just feels like the logical next step, that's okay too! If it helps those other reactions feel less weird, for context people tend to treat starting HRT as exciting because it so often is something the person getting it has had to jump through hoops in order to access, and because it's a step towards feeling more at home in their own skin.

You mention you're not expecting anything to happen. Do you mean that in terms of you're not expecting there to be any physical changes? Or is it more that you're not expecting starting HRT to have a huge impact on your life?

I mean I had to jump through hoops to get it, about 15 health tests done, psychological diagnostical opinion that took lots of money and more than 0.5year. And in total it's been 3-4 years since I first started feeling dysphoria, so way longer than anyone else I know. Still don't feel that way somehow.

I don't expect huge impact on my life but I also don't expect changes to my body. I know the ones that are suppose to occur but still somehow don't expect them. And I don't really wait for them either.

Do you feel like some of that low to no expectation is coming from a place of not wanting to be disappointed? If it is, it may help to remember that HRT is going to cause changes to your body, though what those changes are may differ a bit from person to person (I really like the overview given here: Trans Summer School: The Magic of Hormones). Given that, I think it'd be okay to give yourself permission, for lack of a better word, to expect those changes. I also want to circle back to something s.e mentioned earlier in this thread: have you spoken to your therapist about seeing you more frequently as you adjust to being on hormones?