Scarleteen

Back a few months I was talking to a friend about a guy (whom I will call Alex) I thought was cute. My Friend (whom I will be calling Tim) said that Alex was gay. I told that Alex was bi. Tim's response was that he did not believe Alex because Alex set off his 'gaydar.' I said that was a horrible thing to say but he just shrugged and said 'I am not saying it to his face'.

I told him that was biphobic, Tim said he wasn't being biphobic because he believed me when I said I was bi, believed other friends of us and an ex boyfriend of his. But that Alex set his 'gaydar' ringing. This conversation went on for a while, when I next saw him I told him I didn't want to hear such comments. Later at a friends party he told me I was being bitchy about this. We had an argument but another friend, who is also bi, of ours Mary (not her real name) jumped in to say she agreed with Tim that Alex had one foot in the closest. She hadn't wanted to get involved but was sick of the conversation.

At this point I just gave up. I told them that people have done the same thing to me that they are doing to Alex so they offered a truce saying that we won't discusses it anymore. I agreed because I really doubted I would get anywhere with this and I didn't want to lose them as friends. But this has been eating for the past few months more and more. I haven't brought it up with them because I know they will just roll their eyes at me. They have both admitted talking the way they are is a pretty horrible thing to do to someone but they are still doing it.

One part of me says I need to cut my loses and just let this go, another part is wondering why I should bother being worried about upsetting two people who clearly are doing something they know is wrong. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice about how I could have handled this in another way or how to handle something similar in the future?

Hi Darklady,

It actually sounds like you were very proactive in how you handled this, including in how you pointed why this bothered you. Sometimes you can address things in a proactive way and the other people still won't see what you want them to see. It's up to you whether you'd like to address the issue again, but a helpful question might be: what is your preferred outcome from this? Do you want them to apologize? Or agree not to say those things around your or him? Something else?

Hi Sam W, thank you for your input.

I guess the main reason is for this that I do want to talk about this again but I am kinda worried about their reaction. My main problem is that I don't understand why they are behaving like this when they know it isn't okay. I don't understand what their rational is. The conversation was getting rather heated and I knew wouldn't go anywhere if things would continue in the same vein.

If I don't say anything it is just going to continue eating at me, I have tried using logical arguments but that isn't working.

Hi Darklady,

Since do want to talk about this again, where - in an ideal world - would you like the conversation to go? You say that reason hasn't got you very far, are you hoping to change their ideas? Or their actions in relation to you?

Hi there Siân.

In an ideal world, I guess I would like to understand his rational for this behaviour, and to get him to understand that while he may not intend to come across biphobic, many people will walk away with that perception because even if he has nothing personal agasaint bisexual people it still sound deeply problematic.

Not only that but they are saying this without all the facts Alex´s has had a girlfriend and the reason why I know that is because I spent time getting to know him rather then making assumptions about him-even though that should be besides the point. So I guess in an ideal world I want to have them understand why this is not only wrong but what their saying is just inaccurate. Bisexuals do not have one foot in the cloeset, just because some people call themselves bi before coming out as gay does not make it a stepping stone, all it means is that person tried out the label only to find it didn't fit.

Lastly, I hate the way this is all happening behind someone else's back, and really wish he had never said it in the first place.

Ok. It sounds like to go ahead with this kind of conversation a rough plan might be a useful starting point? Obviously you know this person best, so I'm going to throw out a few ideas and we can go from there. Unfortunately, there are no guaranteed results or quick fixes but some approaches to take can be:

1) Appeal to their better nature: "C'mon, I know you're better than that", "You know, I always took you for a tolerant person, why would you say a thing like that?", "One of my favourite things about you is how you just take people as they are, don't ruin that"

These kind of things can be little comments that you just put out there and change topic, trying to nudge a behaviour change or can lead into a wider conversation if you think you can actually change their mind.* Are there any examples of times they've been a good friend/ally that you can draw on?

2) Ask them questions. These can be questions to try and understand what they're saying, or questions that challenge their ideas, or both. "Do you think that you can always tell someone's sexuality by looking at them?" "Always?", "Why is that even useful/important?", "Why would being straight or gay be more likely than being bisexual?" "How much do you think sexuality changes over a lifetime?"

Start where they're at, and then ask questions. The theory is you make space for them to think through what they're doing and find the flaws in their ideas for themselves, but it means doing some listening.

3) Give your perspective. "I've always thought that....", "In fact, I saw this study that said...", "You know, I kinda feel X when people Y". If you lead with you ("I") when giving facts or feelings people generally feel less under attack and it's easier to find the middle ground.

Most of these work best if you're both relaxed and in a friendly place - you're having a chat here, not a fight. Are there any particular parts of this you think might be more/less useful?

If you want to read through a couple of things I think this is totally relevant to all kinds of relationships: How to Clash With Love: Some Conflict Resolution Basics. Also, the Southern Poverty Law Centre also has a piece full of different perspectives on Responding to Everyday Bigotry. Anything in there catch your eye?


*Sadly if your goal is changing someone's ideas, I'd say that's pretty ambitious and you might be in for the long haul - so make sure you're looking after yourself in this and give yourself permission to just not have these conversations beyond a certain point.

Hello Siân

I have sent him a message outlining my problems with what he was saying, I took time to stress that while I think he is a good person, what he is saying is still very problematic. I asked him why he doesn't believe the other person and what his rational is. He hasn't responded yet but he has seen my message, he says he is busy with work at the momment. I tried to do as you suggested and use only I statements where possible.

I will let you know when he responds what he says.

Maybe instead of trying to change his mind about things should I try to reach some common ground-see where he is coming from and try to get him to see where I am coming from?

Thank you for the stuff you have linked, I have read them they are very interesting.

Ok, sounds like you've taken a good first step! How does that feel?

IF you are invested in and want to maintain this friendship, I do like the middle ground approach; our ideas rarely do a 180 degree switch in a single day, but move gradually with a series of gentle nudges. The evidence generally shows that when pushed too hard we dig our heels in and get more invested in our existing ideas - not less! That said, no-one should have to put up with awful bigoted comments for ages, so maybe the middle ground starts with ground rules on respectful behaviour? e.g. "I'd really like to talk more about this so we can understand eachother better, but for that to be possible I am going to need X, sound reasonable?" Do you think your friend will listen to your boundaries?

If you want to read a few more perspectives on how to navigate these kinds of conversations you might like to check out this and this from the ever-wonderful Captain Awkward. What do you think?

Hello Siân

Thank you for those links, they do look interesting I will read them when I have the time. It feels great to have that off my chest. I hate holding things in, it makes me feel unwell.

I do want to remain friends, because I do think he is a good person really but that he hasn't really thought about what he is actually saying and how this could really hurt people. He hasn't responded to me yet hopefully though I have gotten him to think about it at least. But I won't my hopes up. I think ground rules might be a way to go, I've already made it clear I am looking for an argument but a conversation.

So I guess heading for a middleground would be best. If anything if I can get him to understand where I am coming from and why this upset me so much.

I'm glad you're feeling good about the direction you've chosen with this would you like some help with boundary-setting or do you feel confident on that?

I hope your friend has a clearheaded, respectful conversation with you on this and you find yourselves in a place of better understanding. Is there anything else you wanted to ask/talk about just now?

Hello Siân

I think I am good for now. I'll check back in if I need to. Thanks for all your help

Great, shout if you need anything - and you're very welcome!