Vaginal Intercourse Is Not Sex For Me

[Herstory]

I was just wondering if anyone else feels like vaginal intercourse is not sex for them. I feel so alone in my thoughts. I’ve never met anyone else who doesn’t think vaginal intercourse is sex and when I do tell people, they tell me I’m crazy. Am I crazy for feeling and thinking this way? It feels like everyone in the world thinks that vaginal intercourse is sex from the way people portray sex on TV, from the way sex is defined online, from the way my friends and family told me... I feel so alone.

[Herstory]

I actually just posted it on reddit and got these responses:
“Um. This is stupid? Sorry. Vaginal intercourse it’s like the literal and historical definition of sex.

I don’t ‘feel’ any kind of way about it. Like does anyone feel like being behind the wheel of a car and operating its controls while traveling down the street isn’t driving? That’s what the word means.”

“Dont do drugs”

“It's falls under the literal definition of sex so theres that”

People can say fingering isn’t sex, nipple play isn’t sex, dry humping isn’t sex, but the minute I tell people I don’t consider vaginal intercourse sex, people completely bash me and tell me I’m wrong. Why is it that people can consider other acts besides vaginal intercourse to “not be real sex” but I can’t say that vaginal intercourse is “not real sex”.

[IAmScared]

Well vaginal sex is socially viewed as a "real sex". But if you don't consider it real sex then for you it's not real sex. Why is this important to you so much? You don't have to have any kind of sex you don't want.

[Jacob]

This is pretty interesting. Usually we have the opposite problem, of not having the types of sex we have treated as real sex etc.

I guess what you are saying is that when you engage in 'vaginal intercourse' it doesn't feel like sex, it's not really sexual on your part.

The problem with claiming what is and what isn't sex is that it does run the risk of telling people that what they are doing is not sex. That's going to feel sort of threatening and counter-intuitive to them.

[Herstory]

The thing is people tell me all the time that the sex I have (manual stimulation, mutual masturbation, nipple play, etc) is not sex. Why is it that people can claim that the way I have sex is not sex, but I can’t tell people that, to me, vaginal intercourse is not sex? Why is vagina intercourse put in such a high pedestal in society that I don’t really have the ability to claim it is or isn’t sex like other acts do?

[Herstory]

Why is it that people have the right to define sex the way they choose, except when it comes to vaginal intercourse? It really feels like we all have to accept that vaginal intercourse as the ultimate and only form of sex, but other acts aren’t that important or significant enough to be “real”. To me, subjectively, I don’t feel vaginal intercourse is “real”, yet people get defensive when I say that. No one bats an eye when people claim fingering isn’t “real” sex though. And that’s completely discrediting and demeaning to me because that’s MY ultimate form of sex, the way that I most like to have sex. Why the hypocrisy? Can people REALLY define what they think sex is or do we have to accept a more inclusive definition that fits everyone?

[Jacob]

Why is it that people can claim that the way I have sex is not sex, but I can’t tell people that, to me, vaginal intercourse is not sex? Why is vagina intercourse put in such a high pedestal in society that I don’t really have the ability to claim it is or isn’t sex like other acts do?

I would say they don't have the right to tell you those things aren't sex. I can see you're aiming to reverse that gesture, but as you say later on, an inclusive definition is probably preferred... at least by us here.

I know it's totally infuriating that our sexualities are invalidated by a heteronormative sense that is way too pervasive.

I'd also be careful that on a public forum, it might not be safe to assume that the people receiving your message are the same ones promoting the opposite one. Someone stumbling on that will just think "This person says the sex I'm having isn't real!?" which doesn't sound like it's what you're trying to say.

[Herstory]

Why don’t they have the write to tell me if even in the law it makes clear that there are things that are and aren’t sex? In Florida, the definition of rape is forceful penetration, but that excludes many sex acts and those sex acts, if forced upon, wouldn’t be “rape” according to that definition; leaving out many people in the equation. My definition of rape is any form of sex that is forced on a individual, but the law does not have it like that, so people DO have the right to tell me that my sex isn’t “real” sex. Do I think the laws need to change? Yes. But in the meantime, people are going to continuously discredit my way of having sex because they do have a right, especially here in Florida. And there’s really nothing I can do about it because I can’t change their minds and tell them what sex REALLY is or isn’t. Why don’t they have a right to tell me it’s not sex when the law, media, authorities back then up on doing so?

Vaginal intercourse is put in a high pedestal because of the patriarchy and heteronormativity, no doubt about it. But I’m sure that if women were in power, it would be the reverse. Outercourse would be “real” sex. I can’t say for sure because we don’t live in a world like that and the case studies of matriarchal tribes around the world are few and not enough to support any claim. But i think it’s truly possible that it could have gone the other way as women have their pleasure spot on the outside of the vagina, usually, and many need it to feel sexual stimulation. However, that kind of society would completely discredit women who DO enjoy intercourse, just like this society discredits men who don’t. No act should be the ultimate. No act should be “more” or “less” important. It always leaves people out and discredited.

[Jacob]

By rights, I meant something universal, based on my values not on the Florida legal code. I think that was evident.

I'm going to ask you to please, think about what you are saying, where you are saying it, and what you want from it.

That could be things like:

• You think we are doing a bad job excluding forms of sexuality and want us to change
• You feel people telling you your sex isn't sex, undermines you, and you'd like our help feeling better about yourself
• You'd like to have a positive influence on how sex is viewed in society at large and want advice on how or solidarity in the process.

Currently, I'm not getting any of those things from what you have written... a list of rhetorical questions after what was a simple affirmation from me comes across as pretty aggressive, which is fine, but it is difficult to read and makes it more difficult for me to do my job.

It does not seem to me that this is a space that suffers any of the issues you are stating... as a largely queer staff, we are adamant about being inclusive with how we talk about sex, and ever critical of sources that deny that. I'd say we are more a part of the solution than the problem, in our priorities and how we educate.

If this is your passion then these are the kinds of projects you could be contributing to, but in this form not so much.

We simply can't keep responding to posts which we largely agree with, only to be admonished and then repeat the process again without achieving anything productive.

So please think about what we can actually help with, and I'm sure we'll do what we can do.

[Herstory]

I apologize for all the questions, but I’m really just trying to figure this out. The reason why I keep bringing this up is because I’m extremely confused and flustered with the whole concept of sex. The other day I had a conversation with Heather and it confused me even more:

Me: I’ve been reading the polyamory book you recommended me, which I think is fantastic, but I find a part of it a little discerning. The author says that some people establish nonmonogamous relationships by setting boundaries on what sex is or isn’t to them, but I think all that they do IS sex. For example, they limit vaginal intercourse and anal intercourse to only being sex which means everything else is fair game, but that doesn’t make sense to me because other acts ARE sex. I understand setting limitations to only certain sex acts, but to seem other acts as “not sex” is just false and pretty demeaning, especially to the LGBT community (like me). I personally don’t like penetration that much, don’t get much pleasure out of it, and it’s not the most intimate thing I consider to do with my partners, but I still call it sex even though it’s not something I feel is sex to me. But I feel like I can’t really say that intercourse is not sex because it’s sex my default. Yet other people can define sex as whatever they want it to be. It makes no sense to me that people don’t consider those acts sex rather than just saying they don’t prefer them. I feel like it invalidates people like me who don’t like the “mainstream” sex. Are there people out there who don’t consider intercourse sex?

Heather: Ultimately, I generally figure that when I talk about sex, unless I'm talking about myself and my own sexuality and sexual behaviour, I'm just going to use that word generally and when I do, and it's about whatever sex is for other people -- and by that, I mean whatever is/feels like an expression of a person's sexuality to them -- and I'm going to make few assumptions about that. So, since you've been pretty clear that vaginal intercourse isn't sex for you, you don't have to call it sex for you just because it is for some other people, but if you want to, you obviously can.

Me: “In regards to what sex means to people, I’m a little confused about what you said. Can I really not consider intercourse sex? I feel like I can’t because that’s what sex is for literally everyone on earth.”

Heather: “I'm not going to enable you in saying that intercourse is sex for literally everyone on earth because that just isn't true. I also don't think that kind of hyperbole is helping you out, you know? Why play any part in enabling something that is causing you such distress? I know you know that isn't true just for yourself, and I hope you know it also isn't for others for reasons like yours as well as other reasons entirely. Presenting human sexuality as universally the same for everyone in any respect will always be waaaaaaaaaay off the mark, including here. I also feel like you know how hurtful it can be to have someone render your sexuality invisible, so I can't imagine you want to do that to anyone else.

You have been very clear in all your posts that intercourse is not something that feels like sex to you. So yes, you get to not call it sex for you when it isn't, just like, for example, someone else can call a cow food or meat, but I get to not do that because that is not at all what a cow is to me.

Will you have to explain that to some people? Yep, you probably will, and I get it's tiresome. A lot of people just don't understand a lot of things about sex, or have frameworks they use for sex (like the idea there is a kind of "default" sex, for instance, and that it's intercourse) that are busted or problematic. But that explanation really can be as simple as something like, "I get you call it sex if it feels like a way to express your sexuality, but it doesn't feel like that for me, so I don't call it sex for myself."”

She was basically saying I DO have the right to say vaginal intercourse isn’t sex to me, because that’s not the way I feel about it. But you’re telling me I should include it in my definition of what I consider sex to be. Can I have my own definition of sex or must I accept everything as sex, regardless of my preferences? I’m just extremely confused right now.

[Herstory]

Honestly, what I truly desire is clarification. I’m sorry if my posts came out as aggressive. That was not my intention whatsoever. I just have a lot of confusing thoughts running in my head about sex and I would really just like to understand.

[Heather]

I think it may truly be as simple as understanding the difference between "*I* do not myself experience vaginal intercourse as sex," and "I don't think vaginal intercourse is sex."

It might help, given your feelings and experience, to look at how that looks and comes across with a different kind of sex inserted: "*I* do not myself experience oral sex as sex," and "I don't think oral sex is sex."

I think you (like so many of us) have heard enough of the latter to know that feels like anyone saying that is saying THEY decree what sex is, even for us. This is truly just about using I statements or not, and how different things can come across when we do and don't qualify like that.

And what you do isn't about what other people do with this. Do a lot of people SAY that second version about a lot of kinds of sex or decree what sex is or isn't for others with their words? Yep. But you know it sucks, so we're going to presume that, like us, you don't actually want to do that yourself.

We're starting our boards break right now, so I hope you can find some relief around this in the next week, and also can figure out how to deal with this frustration in ways that don't just bring more of it to the table for you.