Scarleteen

Hi,

as many others here I am pretty anxious about those little invisible traces of precum during mutual masturbation.

To be cautious my gf and I are currently abstaining from sex as she is waiting for her pill. We also always wait for her to finish before I have a real ejaculation.

However I would like to know if I had precum remains on my finger and would rub said fingers around her clitoris and the entry of her vagina would those sperms be "teared apart" by those forces or are sperms more like bacteria or viruses that could survive this and then still start their journey up to the fallopian tubes ?

There is very little to none information about this on the internet. Would the skin of the vagina still transport those sperms all the way up like some kind of elevator ? Would her having an orgasm make this transfer even quicker?

Thanks for your reply!

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Hi,

I am absolutely not scared about a current pregnancy but I would like to know about my topic for making the right decisions in the future.

Please do not interpret my questions which I think I phrased quite well as a pregnancy scare.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Henn,

The style of your question is similar to the ones we get that are pregnancy scares, since it sounds like you're asking about the risk of something you already engaged in, which is likely why Sian posted that answer. If that's not what you're asking, we also ask that users search for answers on the main site, or on the boards, before posting questions here.

You can find the information you're looking for (which is "does manual sex pose a risk of pregnancy," as what you're describing isn't mutual masturbation, but manual sex if YOUR fingers are touching a partner, not their own) in these three pieces:
• Can I Get Pregnant, or Get or Pass On an STI From That?
• Human Reproduction: A Seafarer's Guide
• Who's Afraid of Sperm Cells?

Hi,

I have read those. May I ask, as there are generally no sources what kind of medical background there is to be these claims?

If you'd like some of the kinds of sources we use when we educate ourselves or write content about reproduction, here are just a few I keep in my own office (and most of our content on reproduction has been written by myself) for my reference:
• Our Bodies, Ourselves (all editions), by The Boston Women's Health Collective
• Essential Reproduction (right now I have the 6th Edition), by Martin H. Johnson
• Human Reproductive Biology, by Richard E. Jones, Kristin H Lopez PhD

In the event you both want some current medical information and some really cool anthropology and other culturally contexted information, one of my very favorite books about reproduction is On Fertile Ground: A Natural History of Human Reproduction, by Peter Thorpe Ellison.

I have also worked in an abortion clinic, on top of being a highly awarded educator in this area for over 20 years now. I take things being factual and accurate very seriously, *especially* when it comes to information that is necessary for people to have a real choice about their own reproduction, a matter of the utmost importance to me, my whole life. If we're guessing about things here, or making estimates or conjecture, we usually say we are, and try to do so as little as possible.

It might also help to recognize that the information you're asking for here is very basic, not advanced. In other words, we have known for a long time now, scientifically and medically, how reproduction does and doesn't happen, and the knowledge that sperm are too delicate (and without their fluids they need, as well as other factors) and can 't create a pregnancy in these ways isn't at all new or advanced. Anyone who has had any real education -- be it in medical school, on the job, or through basic reading on reproduction -- on these issues knows these basics. I don't say that to make you feel foolish, but just so you know this isn't something someone has to be an OB/GYN to know or that you will need to read hundreds of pages of textbooks to research.

Wow thanks, that the best answer I have gotten on this. Btw her gyno did say that even one sperm placed on the vaginal opening would suffice, so there is a lot of confusing information. Also her parents are ultra religious, so we can't talk to them and they get angry real fast.

You're welcome.

I strongly suggest she get a new gynecologist, given what you have just told me. Honestly, either that GYN is not well-educated in her own field -- it is BASIC information that reproduction just doesn't work like that: for a lot of reasons, but one sperm cell by itself can't do ANYTHING, even with unprotected intercourse, as you know from reading the pieces we have here -- which obviously disqualifies her as a safe and effective healthcare provider. OR that person was literally lying to a patient to scare them (a terrible thing some doctors or other people do with young people about sex), which disqualifies her by being unethical and otherwise awful.

Either way, if she has a choice in her OB./GYN, I suggest she switches, pronto, because both those possibilities are terrible.

Yes I think we should be able to engage in some form of physical sex without worrying. Once she gets the pill (it's uncertain because of possible side effects / thrombosis) we could start to think about actual sex. So her GYN helped her with the thrombosis risk, that's something. She just said that any amount of precum around the vagina is a pregnancy risk even one single alive sperm cell...

We don't really trust condoms and a broken condom situation would be hell given their parents anger etc.

So for now we would stick with manual sex like without ejaculate around her privates and stop worrying about any precum that might be on my or her fingers.

Right, but again, that is incorrect. That is false information she either knew was false or isn't educated about. So, again, I would strongly suggest if she can switch doctors, she does, especially since she has a health condition that can make choices with contraception paramount.

(Another tip: if that doctor is not suggesting methods to her she CAN use without a thrombosis risk, that's another way this doctor may be acting unethically. For example, has she been told that instead of waiting and having no method save condoms -- which I hear you say you don't trust, but when used properly, condoms are very reliable, just so you know, and also are important for use in STI prevention -- she could likely have a highly effective IUD inserted? If not, I'd say that's more evidence she has a bad doctor either operating on little or very, very antiquated knowledge OR who is not doing right by her around sexual issues on purpose.)

One last question. If these information are so basic why are there so many contradicting information on the internet? Especially GYNs seem to believe in finger pregnancies like my gf's GYN, too.

Shouldn't professionals have come to a clean consensus by 2019 ? Especially if these things are basic knowledge.

For example the #1 google search result:

"According to Dr. Adrienne Zertuche, an OB-GYN at a division of Atlanta Women’s Healthcare Specialists, “While it is unlikely for you to get pregnant simply by engaging in non-generative sexual activity (i.e. ‘outercourse’), it is still possible.” Mainly if your partner has semen on his finger from pre-ejaculate, or if he “pulled out” and there was still pre-ejaculate or any sperm at all left inside of you and he uses his finger and pushes the sperm further up in — these are the only two scenarios where fingering could lead to pregnancy. It only takes one sperm to get pregnant."

Hi Henn,

We can't say why that google search result says what it does, but a likely answer to your question is that things like sex and reproduction tend to have a lot of myths or misinformation attached to them, some of which can make their way into professional spaces. Which means that people who by rights ought to have accurate information may still be carrying around misconceptions, not bother to correct them, and then pass them on to others.

This is just speculation but when my gf talked to her GYN and similar when I read about these things online it seems that professionals sometimes want to scare you by telling you the border where pregnancy could happen is a lot closer than in reality. The "one sperm is enough" twist gets around a lot. Maybe they want people to be overly careful for liability reasons or because they believe people make mistakes and want to take them to the extra safe side...

However talk like that seems to generate a ridiculous amount of pregnancy scares and confusion. Maybe the truth would be the better way to go on about this even if it means that you pass the responsibility onto young people.

In my case I (and my gf) have always thought that we acted responsible and were almost "proud" of it. I mean it takes some self control to stay away from sex, get informed about birth control etc... So we should actually feel good about ourselfs. However there are so many articles (some of them don't even use words like "unlikely" in these scenarios) that you don't know what to believe anymore.

The most laughable thing would be sex ed in school where I didn't get any of these information. They didn't teach us anything that would help to differenciate between risks...