Confused

[LlamaLove]

I am probably a little older than most on here, but I’m needing someone to talk with and I do not have that in my personal life. I’ve identified myself as pansexual, but I’m not sure. I am open to dating anyone of any sex and have dated men, women and one woman in transition. But purely physical I tend to be attracted to androgynous people. I think feminine men are beautiful and masculine women are sexy. I do not understand myself. Am I just a lesbian who hasn’t figured it out yet? I’m not into masculine men at all. And many of the feminine men are gay.. Any thoughts? I just feel a bit lost.

[Heather]

Welcome to the boards, LlamaLove. It's totally fine to be here in your early 30s, and it's not like this issue is uncommon for people of any age.

I think one reason you might be feeling lost is that it's pretty easy to feel lost in all of this when the way you feel isn't a good fit with the very binary -- not just per gender, but also with the ways we often culturally put kinds of attraction into boxes -- way so much of this is constructed. Queerness like yours (and I get it, it sounds a lot like mine, too!) often doesn't fit all that well with a lot of the language and frameworks we have right now, even though they keep getting better and more inclusive all the time.

One thing that I think is important to keep in mind is that our sexualities are fluid, and so often will be the whys we think about them over a lifetime: and we are allowed to! I hear you right now identifying as pansexual, which seems to be to be as fine a way to classify the way you experience attraction so far as any. I also don't think that being into men needs to mean being into "traditional" masculinity (and IME, men with different kinds of masculinity, or those who are/identify as more femme and aren't gay, but are queer or straight are out there), so I don't see any reason for you to second-guess your own attractions to men because of that, you know?

I wonder who you might feel about trying to accept that idea that maybe you will feel lost -- or simply uncertain or without a more rigid, binary frame for a lot of this -- and that can be okay? Like, how do you feel about the possibility that it can be okay to feel that way, and you don't actually have to try and do anything to change that, but maybe just work on accepting it?

[LlamaLove]

Thank you for responding. My family are very against anything nontraditional. I can accept that this is how I will feel for now, but it’s difficult. I often feel I have to explain myself when let’s say my sister tries to match me with someone. She does not understand my reasoning or attractions. She thinks because I did not feel anything with the man I had sex with while I did with the woman that I’m a lesbian. But I also was not attracted to him. I mean that mentally too. Like I thought I liked him but when I got to know him more it turned me off. Idk. I confuse myself. I thought I was a sub cause I like the whole dominated thing. To an extent. But it may also be because my family is a bit manipulative and I feel trapped. I want someone who is open. Someone who sees beauty as many different things and can be dominant one day and submissive the next. Not in a mean way but a respectful one. Does that make sense? My mom told me I should date a more masculine guy because I’m not super feminine. I mean I’m not a tomboy but not girly either. As I’ve stated before I sorta like the middle road. But if I’m in the middle do you think I’ll find another like me? I mean don’t people usually like the opposite? And what do you think about the comment on finding a guy guy? I really can’t get into them. I mean the rock is sexy but I think it’s cause his smile and personality. I think muscles are icky honestly. Sorry I’m rambling on here. I’m going to wait to further this conversation until you respond again. Thank you ahead of time for talking to me

[Heather]

It sounds like your sister (and you, too) have some ideas about relationships and sexuality that aren't really based in reality or the diversity of human relationships and sexuality.

For instance, no, people don't usually like "the opposite," but perhaps even more clearly, the idea that there's even such a thing as an "opposite" person isn't based in anything but super-binary thinking. Opposites are binary, and that suggests that for every one way a person can be, there is another way that is exactly and completely different. One place you see this kind of thinking a lot is on the gender binary, with people suggesting men and women are opposites. In reality, there not only are more than two sexes (and way more than two genders), but people of a given sex or gender are all -- there are billions of us! -- so different in so many ways, including how different people of any one gender can be. And even if that was a real thing, with gender or with anything else, the idea that in relationships we all only like people who, in any or every (OMG, how?) way are different than us just isn't sound. People like all kinds of people, including on the axis of all the ways others can be the same or different than us.

That kind of thinking is obviously informing other problematic ideas like that you need to seek out people who date who someone else thinks "compliments" or -- ugh! -- "fixes" by balancing, your gender. That's not a thing in real life except in ways that people may feel or experience and want that. For instance, some people do feel like something about the way a partner's gender is can make theirs feel more right to them, but a) not everyone experiences that, and b) people who do can feel that for a wide array of reasons, including basic stuff like someone just being comfortable in their own gender, so it can make you feel more comfortable in yours, you know?

I think one thing you're running into here is a lot of very antiquated, heterosexist thinking. These ways of thinking -- on the binary, and with gender as super-binary, that if someone doesn't like one man they must be a lesbian (for crying out loud, how backwards and wrong that is) -- don't work out well for most straight people, and they REALLY don't for queer and/or gender nonconforming people. Can you accept that this stuff is just plain wrong, and maybe stop involving your family or others who think like this in your dating life? I can't see how having someone like this involved is going to bring you anything but stress, hurt and more confusion.

Just FYI, I'm not down with talking about anyone's appearance as icky, because we work hard to keep this a body-positive space where anyone can walk in and, however they look, not find anyone talking about ways they might look in ways that will make them feel bad, okay? But if big, muscular men don't turn you on, they just don't. I don't think there's anything to really think or say about that, because attraction is super-diverse, and who and what people find attractive and don't is very personal. But I also don't think that tells us anything about what gender of people you are or aren't attracted to, because big and muscular are things that are about someone's body type and genetics, not their gender.

[LlamaLove]

You are correct and I suppose I’ve become like this over the years due to how I’ve been raised. At one point I was engaged to a woman and my mom literally gave me an ultimatum of her or the family. She even opened my mail and read a personal letter I wrote to her to my dad to make him on her side. I’ve always felt kinda cornered in life. Emotionally, mentally etc. and I didn’t mean to diss a body type. I was mainly saying that because I’m personally looked at as wrong by people around me because I don’t personally find that attractive. I’m working on moving away from home but I’m in a difficult spot. So I will probably grow in my comfort with myself as I become an individual and living on my own.

I also am confused by some things you have said. You mention the word queer. I always thought that was the same as gay. Am I incorrect?

On a different not I know that I like dressing feminine and playing that role to an extent, but I also enjoy being the one to romance and sometimes be a umm what’s the female version or a gentleman? Idk. My church had us do etiquette training when I was younger. We watched pride and prejudice and then went to a dinner and had to try to use those roles. It made me so irritated because hey if someone opens the door for me I will appreciate it. But don’t do it cause ur a dude and I’m a girl. I like opening doors for people and taking care of them as well. I like to be in the other role much of the time. Does this make me gender fluid? Ugh there’s so much terminology it confuses me.. again thanks for taking your time to chat.

[Heather]

I want to start with some terminology/framework bits that came up in your response first. And I get feeling overwhelmed and confused: there is a lot!

So, queer is generally a term that can be a big umbrella term for basically anyone who isn't heterosexual, which includes gay (homosexual, as in, mostly or only attracted to people of a same or similar gender as them) people. OR -- and this is more the way I meant it with you, and tend to mean it when I speak for myself as a queer person -- it can mean being outside of binary or either/or kinds of sexual orientation -- heterosexuality or homosexuality -- period and/or being outside binaries when it comes to how a person themselves experiences gender and/or attraction to others based on gender.

Genderfluid is a term generally used to describe a gender identity where a person feels like some days they're feminine, so\me days masculine, some days neither, other days both. I can't say if that is a fit for you or not, but what you're describing in your last paragraph isn't really about genderfluidity, so much as about taking (valid) issue with notions of gender roles as something assigned (not chosen), binary and very rigid. For example, what I'd say a woman who is just courteous and polite is is a woman who is courteous and polite. I'd say a mean who is courteous and polite is a man who is courteous and polite. We have "gentleman" as a thing because back when, basically, a) it was considered a given -- a requirement, really -- that women are polite and b) also a given that a lot of men are rude. But "gentlewoman" is a term that has been used, if you like that whole framework and want to use it.

But the idea you like to be ion "the other role" is, again, something that relies on the idea that we are all binary, and for any one thing, there is one other, opposite thing. And like I said before, a lot of people do still think that way, but that just really doesn't bear out in reality. In reality, people are way, way more diverse than that. Make sense?

I'm so, so sorry to hear about how your family has been, and I'm brokenhearted to hear about how your engagement was treated. That sounds like it was deeply emotionally abusive and controlling, and I imagine it must have been terribly painful for you. I don't think you're "wrong" as a person because of who you are and aren't attracted to, because of who you love, none of it. I feel certain you're exactly right as you are for who you are. I'm sorry that it sounds like your family is unable to see that so far and accept you for who you are. I hope they get there someday, but I also hope that you can create your own family, like so many of us do, of friends and others, who you feel accepted by from the front.

I am glad it sounds like you'll be able to move soon. Having to live with unsupportive and unaccepting family into your thirties sounds awful, and I'm not surprised you feel trapped: I can't imagine you really could feel any other way! I agree, it's pretty much always a given that if and when we can get away from people who are maltreating us and not accepting us, we can better accept and love ourselves. <3

[LlamaLove]

Thank you for all of this information, it’s very helpful. May I ask how you began this site? It’s a wonderful creation and helpful in so many ways. I would love to help people like this once I get my life sorted out also. Did you create it yourself or come up with the idea?

[Heather]

I'm so glad to have been of help. Please know I'm happy to pick up any part of this conversation with you again anytime, and I'm wishing you all the best. The situation you've been in sounds very upsetting and challenging and I hope you can get yourself into a living/family situation soon that is affirming, supportive and caring for you.

(And if you ever want to volunteer once you are in a better place, and have yourself taken care of first, you should give us a shout!)

If you're curious about Scarleteen history, we've got a few different recent pieces about that because of our 20th anniversary this year! These two explain it best, I think: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/etc/w ... came_to_be and http://www.scarleteen.com/blog/sam_w/sc ... n_timeline Thanks for your lovely compliments!