Scarleteen

I first felt like I was in love with someone at 17, with the most interesting, cute, and gorgeous girl I've ever met. The problem? She's a YouTuber 5 years older than me at the other side of the world, with hundreds of thousands of Subs.
Her content has helped me through the hardest times of my life, and her personality warms my heart every time I watch a video of hers. She inspires me to be stronger, and fix what I hate about myself, to become a better person.
The development of my feelings has been... an interesting one. At first I only admired her as a person, as I continued to watch I started developing feelings, then I fell head over heels for her, to the point when there have been days I couldn't think of anything else. I even thought about taking on YouTube myself in an attempt to meet her up close. Later though I had to listen to logic and accept the fact that I'll never be able to be with her. All I can do is be a good person in her community, but even then... we have another issue.
I experienced love for the first time back then, and it feels great, ecstatic even, and I want to share my feelings with her, have her know how much she means to me, treat her like the queen I feel she is. But I can't have her know. She has been hit on by guys online in the past, and I don't want to be just another creepy fanboy in her eyes. I may be 100% OK with what she wants, but there's no way for her to know that. In the end, she'll just ban me for her own protection, which I understand.

Keeping those feeling inside me is a pain in on itself, but then come other thoughts...
I'll never manage to have those feelings expressed. I'll never find a girl who loves me back. I'll never know how it feels to be in a relationship.
Especially since I am an introvert, too shy to even approach other people irl, and online realtionships rarely go far enough. Plus, there is also her. I still have feelings, strong ones. If I am to ever find someone, she'll have to completely replace them (which I don't know if it's even possible at this point), or else I'll have to risk hurting her.

I have no idea how to cope with those feelings, and I am also feeling worse because of stupid thoughts I shouldn't have. I know feeling as if you need to be in a relationship to be happy is wrong, and the fact I am getting my mood ruined because of that infuriates me.

If anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it.

Hey there, Dante. I'm sorry this has been such a struggle for you. I don't think you're stupid, and I hope we can talk about this in a way that helps you get past feeling that way.

I think it's important to recognize that what you have been feeling probably isn't love. I don't say that to make you feel bad, but a) to be truthful, but also b) to let you know that if you're thinking all of this is what love feels like, it usually isn't. Having an actual relationship with an actual person -- and in their actual life, not a YT channel, which is always a performance, however real it can seem -- and having feelings in that feels a lot different than this, including usually feeling way less lonely and hopeless. I also don't think that if and when you get involved with another person, they will have to be replacing anything. Not only do people not need to replace people like that, again, this has been a crush (and on an online persona, no less, not even so much a person), not a love relationship. Does that make sense?

The other thing "actual" love offers us is that we aren't only seeing the most perfect and wonderful parts of someone, or only seeing that person in very controlled, performed situations. When we see someone first thing in the morning or when they have the flu and are barfing everywhere or when they are struggling in a private way or when they are helping us -- directly -- with something hard or when they are talking to us with a giant booger coming out of their nose or when they tell us something they would never tell anyone else about themselves...it's just all really, really different than this feels. I'm concerned you think this is love in large part because I think that if you believe that, you're getting the idea love is something much less, and much more one-sided, than it tends to be. It sounds like you have the idea this is some big love you'd lose if you actually got involved with someone in a love relationship IRL: my concern is that you're actually potentially going to miss out on big love if you stay in the place where you think this is what that is.

That all said, particularly if you are very introverted and have social anxiety, I get how you can get attached like this to someone in this kind of situation. This is obviously something that feels a lot more safe than some alternatives, including because you haven't actually had to expose yourself to this person at all: even though YT is performance, she's still put herself out there in ways you haven't had to. So, you've been able to receive some things in ways that are likely a lot more comfortable for you, and that feels like you're getting all the good stuff, even though this situation can't really offer you the real goods, know what I mean?

My sense of things, without talking to you any more yet, is that there are probably two things you can do to help yourself out here:
1) Start doing what you can to detach yourself from this person and their channel some. It may be that you need some help from a pro to do that, particularly if it feels like a huge loss to you (which would be understandable) to do that. How do you feel about counseling or therapy as possible helps?
2) Start doing what you can to actually interact with people you CAN interact with. It's okay if that's only online at first and not in person, I just think that starting to have some two-way interactions sounds really important for you, especially so you don't stay stuck in this.

What do you think about all of that?

Sorry for late response, I've been extremely busy these last few days

I see what you mean, I've heard it before, actually, (it was from a friend of mine, my closest experience with counseling, actually. Until I managed to drive her up a wall, so I stopped talking to her about this topic) and now I have a good proof of its validity.
Thing is, the problem isn't how my feelings won't find any response. I came to accept the fact that such a thing is unrealistic. What kills me is that the feelings I have will never be able to expressed, that I'll never find someone to treat with the care and warmth I feel inside, that I'll never feel the warmth that comes with being in a relationship myself (be it with her or with someone else).
I've tried looking into other girls, especially this last year I started going to University, but I can't seem to find anyone with whom I can seriously see myself being with (or when I do it turns out she was asexual/aromantic or already in a relationship).
Besides, even if I did, who says she'd feel the same?

I don't want to be the type who's a piece of shit, yet wonders why no girls seem to be interested in him. Thus, I started going through a process of self-evaluation and fixing what I didn't like about myself. And although I managed to have some success, there is no guarantee that I'll manage to do it, which just throws me back into the hole of angsty despair.

It's okay, Dante. I'm just heading out of my shift for today, but I just wanted to let you know that I see this, and I'll hop back on it tomorrow.

Thanks, I appreciate your help

I know I said it already, but I want to be clear that I very much doubt that the strongest, most important feelings you will ever have for someone will be for someone you don't even actually know as the person they are in their actual life and who you won't ever likely interact with.

I hear that the feelings you have been having feel and have been very big, and I also get that this may be hard to believe without having had the life experience to know. But I truly can all but promise you that these kinds of feelings are usually a mere shade of how love -- the real stuff, happening in more than one-may interactions -- feels. I also strongly suspect that one of the biggest barriers to finding these kinds of connections with people may well be your attachment to this person and the media they make. Holding someone on a massive pedestal like this is problematic for a lot of reasons, and one big one is that it tends to make it very, very hard to see how people really are IRL, not just in the way they present themselves in very carefully curated and controlled media, and connect with them. No one else will probably also ever feel like your queen...but that'd be a good thing, if a truly intimate, healthy, real-life relationship is what you're after (or maybe you don't want that? something to think and talk about, if that might seem like the case). An equitable, mutual relationship between peers doesn't resemble the monarchy, you know?

IMO, I think it also can make it harder to accept yourself -- someone whose many flaws you not only know, but know very intimately -- in some ways, even though I understand and believe you that the media this person makes has helped your esteem in some ways. You're setting this person SO far apart from you, even more than they already are, and the relationship between fan and performer, for lack of a better one, is already super-fraught when it comes to

It can often take more than a first year of exploring dating to start to make any connections, let alone the big stuff. I know how frustrating it can be, and I imagine it probably only feels more so when you feel like you have a thing that's already a big deal even when it's only kind of a thing, you know?

Can you fill me in on my question about counseling? You mentioned you talked to a friend and that was what was close to counseling for you, but talking to a friend is actually very different than working with mental health pros, even when some of our friends ARE those people. It just sounds to me like you could probably use some good, in-person help with both detaching yourself from this fixation (that word sound callous in this context" I'm sorry, I'm just not finding another that works for me right now), getting to the root of some of it and also getting some qualified help and practice when it comes to social skills/tools.

I see. Honestly, I feel like counseling could indeed help. However, I don't really have the money to ask about professional help on your own, and I don't really want my parents to know there's something wrong, because I don't really want to risk having to explain to them what's going on

I can understand that.

NHS counseling often means (you probably know the drill) a waitlist, but it also will not likely cost you anything. Want to look at this info and let me know if anything looks promising? https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/counselling/

That link you sent me looks interesting, although I hope the free counseling is available through e-mail.
It would make me feel a lot more safe, because I can be as sneaky about it as possible, no questions asked by parents.

That's not likely (even many therapists in private practice often won't do that unless there's no other way or you've been a patient of theirs for a while already), and I also think that probably wouldn't be ideal for you, honestly. I think being able to have some real face-time with someone else is going to serve you better given your shyness, you know?

But I'm sure that we can brainstorm ways for you to keep your therapy private and still get to it, if you want help with that. How about you get started by taking the next steps that NHS page suggests?

Next steps?

I’d say checking what’s available in your area would be the next step: https://beta.nhs.uk/find-a-psychologica ... s-service/

Oh, right
Welp, I checked, and I don't think there are any

That seems pretty unlikely if you're in London. Sure you used the tool for this properly? (That sounds blamey, but I don't mean it that way!)

First of all, really sorry for putting you in the trouble for looking into this website, but truth is, I don't live in London.
I am REALLY paranoid and secretive about this topic, so I created an account with a false city, as to leave no tracks behind. I wish I didn't have to lie, but I don't want to risk a fan of hers stumbling upon this post and starting to make connections.
Regardless, I kind of get the procedure. I'll have to look into any public therapists in my area, as to save money, and if I don't I should stock up some money and find private ones instead, after doing my research into how trustworthy they are. I'll also try the possibility of online counseling, but if that's not an option, I'll find a way around it so my parents won't notice, maybe start when I move out?
Besides, I was already thinking about seeing a therapist about some other topics as well (that deviate from Scarleteen's thematic), which means I should finally look seriously into it.
Thanks for talking with me Heather, it was very cathartic, and also made me start a re-evaluation of my feelings about my "queen". I appreciate it.
Once again, thanks and sorry, I hope what I did wasn't too bad. I had no ill intent, and in fact, I started to feel guilty about it once you showed me the website. But you have to understand, I was just being careful (to the point of paranoia, admittedly, but I ain't taking no chances).

Ah, I see. We'd rather you (or anyone) didn't do that, and it's pretty clear in our terms when registering (but we also are people who use the internet too and know we all often don't read those things). But since you're honest about having done that, and I get you only were trying to protect yourself, I'm comfortable leaving this as-is. And if you do want help seeking this kind of healthcare out, you can PM me with where you actually are and I can look and email you anything I find, if you like.

There is a wonderful therapist on our advisory board who is also a friend who runs an online therapy service in the UK. IF you want to look into it -- or, if it doesn't look right to you, email her for a referral: tell her we sent you, she's great -- she's Ronete Cohen at: http://rainbowcouch.co.uk/

You're welcome. I'm also still happy to talk here, if you'd like, I just think you'd benefit from being able to talk to a qualified therapist in person, too. I wasn't suggesting that to you to shoo you off.

Thanks for your understanding, and I'm glad to know I can still talk to you.
As for Rainbow Couch, I foundf it very interesting. I'll definately keep it in mind in my search for a therapist

Hi Dante,

I was reading this and I was just thinking I could relate to some of it from when I was younger, I wonder if any of it would make sense to you or be helpful:

Firstly, I always thought I was so sad because I couldn't be with the one person I wanted to be with (whoever that was that year), but couldn't. In hindsight I was a depressed kid, and I think it was the reverse: I think I wanted to be with the one magical person I couldn't be with because I was sad. It's really hard to make sense of depression and putting the cause outside myself helped things make sense, and feel like something I could express. I could write long (very embarrassing) love letters and put them in a box and my energy was going somewhere.

The second reason, which might have been a coincidence was that, through my teens I don't think I was very ready for dating or a relationship. I had a lot of things about myself to work out and I don't think I would have been a great person to date... so fixating on impossible relationships somewhat protected me and other people from actually having to have crappy relationships.

The other element I learnt from that time and some of my earlier relationships are that sugar sweet "intensity" isn't such a great thing to base decisions on. Some of my worst relationships and unhealthiest crushes felt like the most intense and passionate, basically because there were so many negative things mixed in with the good. If something feels like a cure for deep and painful emotional problems, of course it's going to feel like the most important beautiful life-saving magical sensation I will ever feel, but that doesn't mean it is good for anyone involved. There are types of growth and closeness which feel very very different, not 'intense' but instead healthy and nurturing. It's still fun to play with 'sugar', but I'd rather sprinkle it carefully, than eat bowls of the stuff for every meal.

As Heather says, learning other ways to relate to people, and ways to engage with a more equal model for sexual relationships takes tiiime. In my experience, doing that exploration and being open to healthier reciprocal relationships the slightly further future is totally worth it.