were these experiences cocsa/sexual harassment

[ls2verice]

hey I was wondering if these experiences were COCSA/sexual harassment (me perpetrating).

1. nokia incident: for context, me and my cousin are 6 months apart (me born first), born the same year. when I was 7-9 I had found porn and I decided I wanted to share with m cousin. when we had a sleepover I told her about how I found out about sex and asked her if she wanted to see, she hesitated at first but then decided that she did want to see. I said "but I'm warning you it looks weird". She then looked at the picture on my screen and said "ew", I agreed with her and that was it.

2. before nokia incident, it was a game we did on another sleepover (we were 6/7): she asked me to dare her to do anything, so I asked her to kiss me down there. she said sure, I proposed a countdown and then we agreed on a time (10-15 seconds). I actually had wanted to do it without my underwear, but she said ew and that she'll do it with them on but without is just gross so that did not happen. she did it, didn't really feel anything, then we moved on to other things.

3. fort incident: this was between my aunt and me who is 7 years older than me. when I was 6-8 (most likely on the younger side because I did not know what incest was), so she'd be 13-15. My aunt had made a fort for me and I had gotten the most random idea to try to kiss her out of curiosity, I then tried kissing her but she was pushing me away but I did end up pecking her once. I don't remember if she scolded me or just walked out of the room but I remember being embarrassed and confused, then following her downstairs to her moms room. I don't know if she told her or not because I did not hear, but I didn't get in trouble so I must've been really young. I recently apologized to her this year and when that happened and she said she was "not sure" what I was referring to but said that there's "no need to worry about that".

4. fanfiction incident: when I was 15 and my friend was 12, I suggested we make tumblr accounts to read fanfiction. she's 3 years younger than me, but we grew up together as church friends, she was taller than me, nor did we have much of a maturity gap, it felt like were the same age. I did this because I wanted to have someone to relate to fanfiction with. This friend had always been overly sexual with me and my cousin, in fact, I'm pretty sure she had more knowledge of sex than we did despite being older than her. a lot of her jokes were sexual which were funny at times and weird others. Because of this I was assumed she was going to look at accounts with "mdni" in their bio so I told her to lie about her age or else she will get blocked. at the time I did not really understand why these adults didn't want us to read their stuff other than, minors are annoying and them always saying "nsfw is for 18 only", so I didn't think the looking at it was harmful. Later I felt odd about the situation but brushed it off. I also recently apologized, told her it was unsafe to lie about her age, and suggested her age appropiate fanfiction websites. she said she didn't see the big deal but she understands now. she even told me that she never really used tumblr anyway, so I assume she just searched for a few fanfiction and just stopped.

5. amino incident: this was on amino, I had made a post when I was 12 asking people to ask me questions and someone asked me what is my original characters favorite song. now I had the idea to be "funny" and made my character listen to a lyric from cupcakke's song "deepthroat". they just responded "okey" with a flat faced emoji. I then remember feeling embarrassed and wishing I didn't send that. I recently looked back at their account and I found out that they were actually 13-14 at the time.

were any of these experiences cocsa/sexual harassment? Apologize for how long this is, I tried to shorten it as much as possible while not leaving out important details.

[Andy]

Hi there Is2verice!

I’ll say that none of these situations seem to involve any sexually abusive behavior in them. A big part of what makes something abuse is that it’s about power or control. Doing something, often repeatedly, with the purpose of hurting the other person is what abuse usually look like, not like accidentally doing something that might make someone uncomfortable. And I don’t see anything about controlling or hurting the other people in your descriptions, all I see is healthy curiosity and care for them. We aren’t born knowing everything about sex or boundaries, we have to learn about these things from people around us. And many 7 years old kids, and many older as well, don’t for example know they should ask before kissing someone, it’s a learning process and what matters is that you know that now. Does that make sense?

It also sounds like none of these people feels in any way harmed by these events, they might not even remember it like your aunt doesn’t!

I’m wondering, do you have an idea what made you question if these situation were sexual abuse?

[Jacob]

Just do add, I think for many people, events like these are how we learn what our own and other's boundaries actually are!

So instead of thinking of these a potential evidence that you had bad boundaries, they might actually be the opposite - memories that show you developing your sexual ethics through your experiences.

[ls2verice]

hey, sorry for responding late but this started last year where I saw a twitter post talking about familial abuse and one of the things talked about is how your cousin showing you porn is molestation. I eventually learned about COCSA and looked at subreddits for perpetrators to describe my experiences. I eventually saw someone give a link to some helplines and I eventually ended up here. This lead me to an unfortunate mental spiral where I'd pick out my hair to the point of some hairloss. None of the helplines I contacted were really clear and one said they were going to stop responding because it was getting unproductive. I really wanted definitive answers, that's all.

I've also been very confused lately about what sexual abuse, rape, and molestation all are because it feels like the definitions get blurry and different each time someone talks about COCSA. reddit wasn't helpful at all either because a moderator of one subreddit had shown me a chart and claimed that if I was in the yellow or red area, I was a COCSA perpetrator. funnily enough, even though the helplines I contacted didn't classify it as sexual abuse, I still had thoughts that it was. This was mostly because when I went on COCSA victim subreddits, they talked about how therapists and professionals denied their abuse so I had a thought in my head that I shouldn't allow these helplines to deny the trauma of anyone I have hurt.

so now I am here asking about these things. I really appreciate you responding, but I also have another question. what makes cocsa, cocsa and what makes molestation, molestation (between two minors specifically)?

[CaitlinEve]

Hey ls2verice,

You mention wanting definitive answers, but do you think that even if you got a definitive answer that what happened was not COCSA that you'd stop feeling anxiety and guilt regarding your actions? I think it sounds like a lot of your worry is being caused by this anxiety spiral you've found yourself in. It may help to think of it this way; if the roles in your scenarios had been reversed, how would you have felt about the situations? It seems like the people you're worried about hurting don't feel like it was COCSA. What 'makes' COCSA COCSA is how it's received and how boundaries are (or are not) pushed. As Andy mentioned, a lot of how sexuality develops in youth is experimentation. This doesn't mean all experimentation is bad or abusive, especially if the person/people who would be the 'victim' don't see it as something that is/was abusive.

I understand overcoming anxiety is not as easy as looking inward; but I do think that seeking reassurance constantly that you aren't a 'bad person' can be counterintuitive. That's not to say that we aren't here for you (we definitely are!); just that it may be helpful to develop some coping mechanisms for when you recognize that you're starting to spiral. Would you be interested in some resources related to that?

[ls2verice]

I feel less prone to spiraling because prior to finding this site, I took a break from contacting helplines to clear my mind and I also started journaling and got some fidgets to help with my hair picking. I did notice that after contacting you guys for answers my anxiety or incessant thoughts have calmed down. I've been reading some of you guys articles which also helps too. so I don't think a definitive answer would increase the anxiety anymore. I would like some coping mechanisms for spirals because while my fidgets help me with preventing my hair picking, I do not know if they are going to help me with those episodes and I want to be prepared. Also, the journaling did not help me with spirals, unfortunately, it just made me think about what happened 10x more and made me feel like a zombie. But a positive thing I got from journaling was feeling like I could be honest with myself and I was able to recover some memory of the events and realized that I had dramatized them (I have a theory I added certain bits that didn't happen out of anxiety).

My aunt also commented on my hair picking and said that it's becoming almost like I can't control myself and that she's worried because OCD runs in the family and she said that's a symptom from it (my dad shows a lot of signs of it but refuses to go to the doctors because he doesn't trust them and thinks they are out to get him). I don't think I have OCD, but if you have any mechanisms for people who pull out their hair and have uncontrollable thoughts, that'd be helpful too.

[KierC]

Hey there l2verice,

I hope it’s ok I’m popping in here. I am glad to hear that finding this site and talking to us has helped you feel less prone to spiraling, but I hear you that you might want some more techniques for the spirals and the hair picking. I do both of these things too, and I have ideas for you. I want to say first, though, these techniques may function more like a temporary solution if you’re struggling more deeply with intrusive thoughts, where a mental health professional, like a therapist, would be able to provide deeper support. How does the idea of seeing a therapist land with you? If it sounds alright, we can certainly talk about what that looks like, or any concerns or questions you might have.

Onto the techniques! I want to start by sending this article we have on mental health and anxiety resources. I love it because it has a list of apps and websites that can help you calm-down-right-now: Anxiety and Other Mental Health Resources. I personally find the “basic self-help strategies” and the Headspace app to be really helpful in spirally moments. The basic self-help strategies has a link at the bottom called “My Anxiety Plan” — that may be a good one to check out, as it has tips and techniques filtered by how you experience anxiety. The Headspace app is really helpful, too; it’s more meditation-based, but it has different timed meditations, so you can do like 30 seconds to calm down if that’s what you need. Either way, I recommend looking through that list and seeing if there’s anything that pops out as helpful to you.

With the hair picking, I’d be remiss not to mention that there are coping strategies, and then there’s “getting to the root of it” with a mental health professional. In my experience with my own hair pulling (which is not everyone’s experience!), the coping strategies help when I feel like I’m pulling more again/if I’m in a period of greater distress, but speaking with a therapist is definitely a longer-lasting intervention, as it lessens the intensity of those moments of distress so I don’t find myself needing the fidgets as much. I know I mentioned that before, so I won’t go too far into that unless you have questions or would like to talk about it. <3

Now for the coping techniques!

1. Fidget toys, as you’re already doing: I find wearable fidgets to be helpful, so I don’t have to alert myself to get the fidget toy out of my bag. Things like fidget-spinner rings for the fingers, sensory scrunchies for the wrists, spinny necklaces, can all be really helpful to try. I also sometimes put little charms on my nails so I can run my fingers along them as a little “worry stone.” So, if you have anything that you like to fidget with and wear, like a necklace or anything you enjoy, that may be helpful to try!
2. Notice where and when it happens: Is there a particular time you pull your hair more? Is there a place you do it more, like in the mirror, or on the couch, or in your bed, etc.? Taking note of where it happens can help you alert yourself to do some sensory-friendly or calming activities instead.
3. Distract your hands meaningfully: Aside from sensory/fidget toys, one of the most helpful things I’ve incorporated is making small art with my hands when I feel like pulling. This can be knitting on the couch, sculpting small things, drawing with markers/whatever you’d like, etc.

I also just wanted to say, hey, you’re not alone. I know hair picking can be hard to deal with, especially when others comment on it. If you ever want to chat about it, I’m here. <3

[KierC]

Double-posting to add that, with spiraling and uncomfortable thoughts, it’s best to avoid the places that make us feel more distressed about it, or activate that spiral. So, when you said some folks spoke to you about child-on-child sexual abuse online, based on what they said, it really doesn’t sound like they said anything that *anyone* should be saying about that topic. So, I am glad you found us! But I would also recommend ditching those more general socials, or at least not discussing sexual abuse or other sensitive topics on general socials where others make ill-informed and harmful comments. You didn’t do anything wrong, by the way. You’re looking for answers, that is good! But you deserve to discuss things in a safe space with informed folks. <3

Also, I wanted to add that if you’re near Mnpls/St. Paul, there are some good low-cost/free therapy options to consider. Here’s a good place to start if you’re interested, and know that we’re always happy to talk with you about the process: https://mn.gov/dhs/people-we-serve/adul ... al-health/

[Heather]

I wanted to also pop in and add one extra tip as an ex-puller, which is that textile work, in particular -- for me, that's embroidery, hand-quilting or mending, anything with thread -- has always gone a long way. I suspect that is because pulling thread through fingers feels an awful lot like pulling hair through fingers. <3

[ls2verice]

thank you so much for the resources, I am planning to look at the fidgets you suggested and I have saved the links you gave me.