Questions about Manual Sex and Pregnancy

[leeleehatter]

Hi Scarleteen, I'm leelee this is my first time on these message boards.

I wanted to ask a question regarding manual sex and pregnancy risk. I read in one of your articles that transferring semen from the penis to a hand to a vagina poses a highly unlikely risk of pregnancy. I wanted to ask, does this same rule apply to pre-ejaculate?

Also, I read in the same article (I think) that sperm cells are really picky and they need a very specific environment to live in. How long can sperm survive outside of this specific environment (i.e. on a hand or article of clothing)? Can sperm that have dried out re-activate themselves if they come in contact with vaginal fluids?

And finally, how easy is it to wash sperm off of a hand? After I gave my partner manual sex, I washed my hands like I normally would. Would this have been enough to flush all the sperm off of my hands?

Thank you so much for all your time!

[Sam W]

Hi Leelee,

With pre-ejaculate, anything other than direct genital to genital contact with it is a non-risk. And no, sperm cannot reactivate themselves, nor are they particularly hard to wash off your hands (like you read in that article, they're actually pretty fragile). You may also want to check out this piece on the hand-washing front:
The Simple And Underrated Art Of Washing Your Hands

[leeleehatter]

Thanks for your reply! And thank you for the article on hand-washing, I found that really helpful

I also wanted to ask another question about pre-ejaculate: how likely is it to contain sperm? I've heard it usually doesn't but that it can in some cases.

Also, in the article about pregnancy scares, the section about dry sex talks about how there is no risk of pregnancy when people are rubbing each other with clothes on UNLESS the clothing is very thin and totally soaked by vaginal fluids. What kind of clothing is considered really thin?

Thanks!

[Heather]

This piece should get you sorted with that information: http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advic ... _pregnancy

(Please also be sure that before posting questions, you are searching the site for answers, per the user registration agreement. Thanks!)

Generally, if people are wearing any kind of clothing and rubbing genitals together, pregnancy will be considered unlikely. here it gets iffy is when we're talking about things that don't really cover the genitals or that area as a whole, like a thong.

Are these questions for you about choices you're making? If so, what might be most productive is to talk about what you do and don't want to do, and what you can do to reduce your pregnancy or STI risks with any of these activities.

[leeleehatter]

Thanks again for your reply!

Yes, these questions are in reference to my own choices. I got carried away this past weekend and engaged in manual sex with a guy as well as dry sex. I guess I was concerned that he may have touched himself and then touched me, but it seems like this doesn't cause a risk usually, correct?

I also wanted to ask: how early can people tell that they're pregnant without actually taking a test? Can you feel a difference in your body?

[Karyn]

Sam W already clarified the risk level of dry sex and manual sex, in her first reply to you. Please have a look at that again if you're uncertain. With regards to how early people know they're pregnant: that is something that varies hugely from person to person. The only way for someone to reliably determine if they are pregnant is to take a pregnancy test.

In terms of getting carried away, do you want to talk about how you can make choices more in alignment with your comfort level in the future?

[leeleehatter]

Yes, that would be awesome! I made this choice in the heat of the moment which was not very smart. Any tips on how to avoid making rash decisions in the future?

Also, do you have any recommendations as far as which pregnancy tests are the most reliable?

[Johanna]

This is an article you might find helpful: When Sex "Just Happened" (And How to Make It Happen Instead)

All pregnancy tests you can buy at the store work pretty much the same, as long as you carefully read and follow the directions.

[leeleehatter]

Thank you for the article!

I was just looking at some pregnancy tests at the grocery store, but they all say the earliest you can test is 4 days before your next period. I've read on the message boards here that you can test as early as two weeks or even ten days after the risk occurred. Can I still take these tests in ten days?

[Mo]

Two weeks is a safe estimate for a time that most tests will be effective. If you chart your cycles and can generally estimate when your period will arrive, then taking it four days early is feasible, but lots of people don't know when to expect their periods. So, if that's the case just wait at least two weeks and it shouljd be accurate.

[leeleehatter]

Thanks for the reply!

Also, I'm not sure if this was in the article about sperm cells, but how long can the sperm from fresh semen survive outside of the penis or vagina? Can they survive for long on a hand?

[Eddie C]

More than "how long sperm cells live" it's about how delicate they are and "how long they are useful" for a pregnancy. Sperm cells have little-tiny tails that break very easily so, if and when someone has fresh ejaculate on the hand, unless they don't move or touch anything then you can say sperm cells live for a couple of minutes. But this is rarely the case. Most of times hands move and touch something else and that's when, even if sperm cells don't die immediately, they are just not good enough to create a pregnancy.

That's why we try to make very clear that unless there is a direct contact between genitals, pregnancy is not possible.

[leeleehatter]

Wow I didn't know that sperm were that delicate! Just to make sure I understand, you're saying that even moving a hand that has fresh semen on it can do damage to the sperm cells inside? I'm asking because after I gave my partner manual sex and he ejaculated, I know I wiped my hand off kinda quickly on my car seat, but I can't remember if I then used that same hand to straighten out my underwear and shorts. How much of a pregnancy risk would that pose if I did?

[Heather]

Straightening underwear and shorts probably does not involve sticking your fingers inside your vagina or rubbing your vaginal opening, right?

If not, what you're describing, even if there WERE fresh ejaculate in your hands, doesn't include the kind of direct contact needed for pregnancy to even be a possibility. You're describing contact with clothing, not with your genitals.

You know, though, seriously, just from a public health perspective, it really is a good idea for everyone to get in the habit of either handwashing or using a hand sanitizer when they have had contact with their own, or someone else's mouths, genitals or other body parts, rather than doing things like wiping semen and/or the bacteria always involved with intimate contact on something like a car seat (especially something like a car seat, which you likely don't fully clean very often, and which people sit on, so wiping people's body fluids on it is particularly problematic, just like it would be if say, you wiped your nose on it).

So, you really want to try and get in those habits anyway, just from a standpoint of infections and diseases, but it also sounds like you'd feel a lot less worried if you handled all of this in...well, a less sloppy way.

[leeleehatter]

Thanks for your reply.

I actually did wash my hands when I got home (I didn't have any hand sanitizer with me in my car). But thanks for clarifying that there wasn't a risk there.

I understand that I did not handle this in as thoughtful a way as I could have done, and I appreciate the advice I got earlier from that article that was linked to me about what to do to prevent sexual encounters from "just happening." I found it very comforting and helpful, especially given that it let me know that I'm not the only person who slips up and makes mistakes. It was a heat-of-the-moment thing and I screwed up, but I'd like to think that I learned from the experience, now that I know I never want to feel this way again.

Do you happen to have any tips on how to talk about consent with partners?

Thanks for your help!

[Heather]

Hey, we live, we learn.

I would be happy to talk with you about that. Can you fill me in more on where you think your partner or partners are not doing it well, or where you feel you aren't yourself?

In other words, what gaps are you looking to fill in with them, or what parts of consenting do you feel like they, you, or both, need help with?

[leeleehatter]

Thanks for your reply!

I feel like I have a hard time saying "no" out loud when I don't want to do something, so that's one part of the problem. The other part of the problem is that, in my experience, most of the boys I've been intimate with, when I've expressed feeling uncomfortable doing something, will often act all sad when I say no or will ask me again in a pleading way later on, which makes me feel guilty. How do I communicate that I don't want to do something clearly and firmly so that I don't have this kind of problem?

Also, I've been feeling kind of tired lately, which I know can be a pregnancy symptom. However, it's not been two weeks yet since my not-quite risk (it's only been about 10 days). Would it be normal to feel tired at this stage if I were pregnant?

[Heather]

Those are certainly places I can start with, and I'm glad to help you with this as I can.

For one, if you have a hard time verbalizing your no, have you said that to partners before they ever even become partners, and asked to brainstorm together about other ways you can express a no that is both understood and always accepted?

(Alternately, how do you feel about stepping away from any partners while you work on getting that assertiveness and ability, presuming you don't have a disability that makes speech in general difficult or a no-go?)

Also, before getting sexual, at all, with someone, do you ever insist on first starting and having some talks about ground rules?

When these guys in your history have done something either without or against your consent, have you not just stopped seeing them -- period -- ever again? In other words, when someone shows you like that they do not respect you as a person and are not safe for you, have you yet then put an end to interactions with them on that (very sound) basis?

If not, any sense of why not? Or what you feel like you'd need to do in order to do that?

One last question to see how we can help: with these folks who have been coercive with you sexually, have you ever, or do you ever, get any kind of gut feelings from the get-go that either they might be bad news, or have any lack of strong feelings they will be GOOD news in this department? In other words, well before you have gotten into any kind of sexual interaction with these guys, what, if anything, have your gut feelings told you about if they seem like they'll both be safe and respectful of you sexually or in general?

(Not going to get into more pregnancy talk since you have told us what activities you have engaged in here and we have been clear there wasn't a real risk in the first place. Let's keep talking about what IS real and is going on and see what impact that has on how you are feeling first, okay? Especially since if you feel unable to say no, and have a history of feeling like anyone you are with sexually won't respect that, it makes sense to feel scared and freaked out, because that is scary!)

[leeleehatter]

Hi Heather! Sorry for my delayed reply, I was away on a short family trip.

My past experiences with consent have been really muddled unfortunately. The first boyfriend I ever had touched my breasts without my explicit permission to do so. I was 14 at the time, and for whatever reason, it didn't really occur to me that this was neither normal nor acceptable. Later on, my second boyfriend (who was very long-term) bordered on engaging in similar behavior. He never forced himself onto me, but if I wasn't comfortable with doing something (for example, performing manual or oral sex, hiding out in our cars to engage in sexual activities, etc.), he would kind of guilt-trip me by saying things like, "Awww, please?" that always made me feel guilty for not doing whatever it was that he wanted. Again, for whatever reason, I didn't recognize this behavior as problematic. I didn't know how to say no because I couldn't stand feeling guilty.

I seem to be having similar problems with other partners. I have not been harmed or physically forced to do anything; however, I do seem to be weak against the guilt-tripping antics of the partners I have been with sexually. Why do I have such a tough time saying no, and how can I change this?

Thanks so much for talking this through with me!

[Sam W]

Hi Leelee,

I hope you don't mind if I jump in here (I will let Heather know that you've left a reply to her). It does sound like you've run up against some coercion (which is what the guilt tripping is) from your partners, which sucks, and I'm sorry you've encountered it. Learning to resist that guilt (or at least override it in the moment in order to enforce your boundaries) can take some time (for the record, it's not your fault that these guys did this. It sounds like you stated your boundaries, but they made the choice to ignore them and keep pushing you)

One thing it can be helpful to keep in mind is that you're not doing anything to be guilty of. These partners are not owed your body or your sexual attentions for any reason. That is something you get to decide when to share with people and when (if ever) to share it. So you're not being vindictive or unreasonable if you say "I am not comfortable with X, please stop asking me. This is not a negotiable situation."

You might find some helpful ideas here: Reciprocity, Reloaded . I also recommend checking out the blog "Captain Awkward." It has advice for all sorts of issues, but there's a big focus on boundaries and the ways you can enforce them.

[Heather]

To add to the great stuff Sam has said here, just a couple things:

1) Do you have trouble saying no with other things, or just with sex? Do you generally -- outside of around sex -- feel able to speak up for yourself and assert your own limits, boundaries and wants without much difficulty?

2) When you feel guilty around saying no, and coercion is happening, are you also ever feeling angry at the person pushing your limits, or do you feel like there is something justified -- even if logically you know better, talking about how you feel emotionally -- about them not accepting your no? Like that they are actually entitled to sex from you in some way?

3) Have you yet, before you got sexual with someone, told them about this history and been very clear you need them to accept no, be great about it, and make room for you getting better at asserting yourself?

Also, do you want some resources on guilt -- in general -- and how people can learn to process and manage that feeling, as well as shoot it down better when it comes up?

[leeleehatter]

Thank you both so much for the resources and for continuing to help me with this!

To answer your questions:

In the past, I was definitely a person who found it incredibly difficult to say "no." I am a people-pleaser by nature, and I do not like disappointing others, especially my family, friends, and loved ones. The last two years have proven to be much better for me, and I find I am saying "no" more often than I did before, but I don't know that I'm saying "no" enough quite yet.

When I am in these situations when I'm coerced, it's not exactly anger that I feel-- it's more like a mixture of frustration (because I want to maintain my boundaries but I feel guilty for not giving someone what they want) and discomfort (because I feel trapped between my desire to maintain my boundaries and my desire to make other people happy). Sometimes I will maintain my boundaries, but the guilt will still be there. Other times, I give in to what the other person wants, and a new kind of guilt emerges--guilt in regards to not being strong enough to maintain boundaries. I always feel like I'm in a lose-lose situation. What should I do to change this?

Also, I know that given the information you all have presented me with earlier, it's unlikely that I have a pregnancy risk, but as you can probably tell, I'm still really scared of that slim chance that I could be. Would you suggest that I do a pregnancy test anyway, if only to relieve my anxiety? And if so, is there any way I could use the texting service just so I have someone to talk to while I'm going through the process? As you can imagine, this is not something I feel comfortable discussing with my parents, but nonetheless if I did take a pregnancy test, I wouldn't want to feel alone while doing it.

Thanks so much for your help!

[Sam W]

You're welcome, and I'm glad you're finding the discussion helpful

It's great that you're finding it easier to say "no," and I feel you on how hard that can be when you're someone who wants to be accommodating. Since, right now, it feels like you find yourself pulled between two types of guilt (the guilt for saying no and the guilt for having not held to your boundary), it might be good to practice sitting with the first kind of guilt, since that's the one that comes with maintaining your boundaries. One thing to try is to find some affirmations or mantras that have to do with it being okay to say no, okay to have boundaries, etc. You can repeat those to yourself both when you feel guilty but also just now and then as a reminder. And, the truth is, learning to say no and hold boundaries takes practice. So don't get too frustrated if you don't see immediate results.

As for the pregnancy test, we do recommend taking one if you're having trouble shaking those "what if/am I pregnant" thoughts. I'm not sure about using the text service (especially since that's fairly dependent on when our volunteers can be here, so the hours may not line up with what you need). Do you have any friends who'd you feel comfortable either having with you or texting while you take the test?

[Heather]

I'm off today and tomorrow, and will then be mostly away for a few days after that, as I'll be out of town giving some talks.

But I wonder why you don't feel angry?

When we say no to someone about something big, like sex of any kind, and they don't respect that, that ultimately means they don't respect us, and are mostly just trying to get what they want, not just for themselves, but for themselves knowing it's not for us. And that is pretty seriously crappy, and if you're supposed to care about someone, it is a really, really crappy way to be treating them.

Do you feel worthy of basic respect? If, say, someone else you really cherish in life, like a sibling or a best friend, had people in their lives pushing or coercing them to have sex they didn't want, would you be angry on their behalf, do you think?

Can I also ask if you have any sense of what you think you'd need to break the cycle of being a pleaser, especially when doing so means things that aren't good for you, what you want, or in alignment with your own limits?

And what you think would happen if you stopped trying to please everyone? Like, just take a minute: what do you think would happen if you instead just did your best to have healthy relationships and interactions, where when people want the same things, great! But when they don't, that's not something you try and fix by ignoring your limits or needs, but just acknowledge is a time when people -- as we often are in life -- aren't going to get what they want or have you be the person giving it?

[leeleehatter]

Thanks for all the help!!

Heather, to answer your question: I don't know why I don't get angry, exactly. I mean I'm sure there's some underlying anger there, but usually for me, I don't express anger very much. Not that I don't do it, it just doesn't come very naturally to me.

I don't know for sure, but it's possible that I don't identify as being angry about this because I've kind of normalized it in a way, given my sexual history in the past. Because the coercion has been a common thread for most of my partners, I've almost come to expect it: I feel like it's almost inevitable that whoever I'm with is going to expect me to perform sexually in ways that I'm not prepared for (which is awful and not healthy). And so because of that, I don't instinctively identify the behavior as innately wrong...which is terrible, but I guess that's just my conditioned response. What can I do to change this?

I think part of it also stems from a general struggle with insecurity. I have never felt very comfortable with myself as a sexual being--I don't really feel particularly sexy or confident about my sexual prowess or whatever. So I get scared that when someone asks me to do something and I don't do it, that it makes me look too stuck up/uptight to have sex. I also have this desire to be praised in all areas of my life, including in my sexuality. I want my partners to think that I'm sexy and/or confident, even if I don't feel that way inside. Sometimes, because of this need, I'll do what people ask of me sexually because I think maybe I'll be praised for it. I know it sounds awful, but that's the truth

Also, I don't know if it's too late to ask given that we've already talked about my pregnancy risk (or lack thereof), but if semen were to be transferred from a penis to a hand to a vagina, how likely is pregnancy? When I said that after I had given manual sex to my partner (who ejaculated onto said hand), I had straightened out my underwear and shorts, I forgot to add that I can't quite recall whether or not I touched myself while doing so. I also can't fully remember if I wiped my hand first and then straightened my clothes, or vice versa.

Sorry for all of the questions! Thank you for talking me through this!