Not wanting to be involved in my mom's new relationship

[Atonement]

So, my mom got involved in a new relationship about 2 months ago, and it has moved really fast. He lives a few hours away from her, but because of their work schedules they’ve managed to spend most of their weeks together, only being apart a couple days a week.

So, he is already pretty much half living with my family.

I have not wanted to meet this man. He sounds nice and all, and my siblings say they like him.

It has more to do with me

a) having a lot of anxiety with my mom and her relationships because of her abusive relationship with my dad for the first 21 years of my life
b) The only other guy that she’s dated that I met was a DISASTER. They were off and on for about a year, and it had the makings of a really unhealthy relationship. This guy walked all over boundaries. She gave him my phone number in case of emergencies, and he texted me more than once after their breakup, which made me super uncomfortable. Once I met him, I was always under pressure to "be welcoming" even though I didn't like him. So, he ended up coming to my house multiple times even though I didn't want anything to do with him.
c) My mother gets so wrapped up in her boyfriends that it’s the only thing she thinks or talks about. Everything and everyone gets deprioritized, and it hurts always coming in low on the list of priorities.

I have talked to her about this, and she understands that I don’t want to meet him anytime soon, particularly since my dad just died last week.

However, I think she mentions her wanting me to meet him “when I’m ready” at least once a day. Like she’s trying to be respectful by face, but she REALLY wants it to be sooner rather than later.

There is an annual cultural festival every year in our area every November. It’s something that is incredibly important to me, and would be pretty devastating for me to have to miss. Today, she mentioned that she’s already invited him, but surely I’d be ready by then.

The thing is, this is giving me a deadline by forcing me to choose between meeting him or missing an event that is really important to me. And even if I was ready to meet him by then, Id really rather it be for dinner or something and not for an all day event that is pretty much the equivalent to an important holiday for me.

She also mentioned that we would have Christmas with his family in a town several hours away. So again, I have to choose between spending Christmas with a huge, strange family or alone at my apartment.

It’s not that I don’t want her to have a relationship. I just don’t like that it’s invading my life. I can keep making excuses for only spending time with here when he’s not around, but when things like that come around I’m either going to have to majorly step outside of my comfort zone of be alone.

I guess maybe it is a little early to be worrying about this kind of stuff, but the conversation we had just left me feeling kind of upset.

How do I handle this?

[Karyn]

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this on top of everything else, Atonement. I know you've talked a bit about your relationship with your mom, but can you remind me: is just stating to her something like "hey, I'm not ready to meet this guy yet and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop bringing it up" a thing you'd feel comfortable doing?

[Atonement]

The good thing about my relationship with my mother is that there are VERY few if any things that I feel uncomfortable saying to her or calling her out on. I can pretty much always speak candidly with her.

The bad thing about my relationship with my mother is that she usually doesn't listen. Or rather, listens but doesn't reply let in impact her actions or decisions.

I don't know, I've kind of been feeling better today. She offered me a compromise about the festival, saying that she will take him to the one in a different town the month before. Hopefully she will stick to her word. Right now I kind of don't trust her, but I'm hoping that by November they will be out of the "honeymoon" stage and less adverse to being apart for more than 0.3 seconds at a time.

Christmas is still an issue, though. The idea of giving up all or our family's traditions and celebrating with another family seems really depressing. But it's also pretty far in the future, and a little early to worry about.

At this point, I'm having kind of a roller coaster effect with my emotions. At moments like right now, I feel like I can realistically handle stuff like this, and that chances are everything will work out ok by then.

Then I have other moments where I get super sad an anxious, and all this stuff seems like an immediately distressing problem, not one day 4 months from now.

I'm going back to work tomorrow, and there is also a level of anxiety about that. Every day at work is like rolling a dice. You never know what kind of an assignment or circumstances you're going to get, so all you can do is pray that it's going to be a good day. I'm still kind of at a point where I don't really think I'm emotionally equipped for bad days, but there's really donating you can do t prevent or control it.

[Karyn]

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all of this: it's a lot. It is good that your mom has agreed to compromise about the festival, and if you feel okay saying pretty much anything to her, I would suggest that you just keep doing what you can to remind her about that when you have the chance, kind of like a broken record so that that she can't back out on it or try and change those plans at the last minute.

With Christmas, as it gets closer, if you aren't feeling like you want to spend it with this guy and his family, you don't necessarily have to choose between spending it with them or spending it alone. Plenty of people do holidays with friends if family isn't available or welcoming, and so that may be something to look into.

Unfortunately, the emotional ups and downs are probably going to take some time to even out, so just doing what you can to take care of yourself and work around them as necessary is the way to go.

[Atonement]

We were doing so good for so long, and now another fight.

Another thing I didn't mention earlier is another thing we argued about was a concert.

There is a specific band that my brother and I are superfans of, and we got my mom into it a few years ago.

Going to their concerts has always been "our thing".It's a huge deal, we usually end up crying at certain songs, and it's something that I would never invite anyone to but them.

The weekend after my dad died, they were in town, and my mom, brother and i had planned to see them. I think we purchased tickets sometime at the beginning of the year.

Then, the day after my dad died, she mentioned purchasing a ticket for her boyfriend. I told her I wasn't comfortable with going with him, so after some argument, I sat it out and she, her boyfriend and my brother went without me.

By some luck, the same band is coming back to our city next month for a festival. I got her to agree to go to that one with us as a compromise, and she agreed with some hesitation.

Now that some time has passed and the air has cleared some, she's trying to bring him to that one too!

She's accusing me of being selfish and unwilling to compromise when that WAS my compromise.

Apparently missing a Saturday with him means that it won't be worth driving out for the weekend, so that means she won't see him for 2 weeks, and apparently that is unthinkable. So essentially, we can never plan anything on a weekend again unless I'm willing to do it with him too.

I had already agreed to compromising for that most of the time. Last week I met her halfway out of my city for dinner, and because of the timing of her job, that involved me fighting over an hour rush hour traffic for what should've been a 30 minute drive. But apparently that's the ONLY time we can see each other, so I did it and I didn''t even complain, because weekends are his, and if I wasn't willing to do that I wouldn't be able to see her on her own at all. And now I'm the one that's refusing to compromise. Just because I won't invite this guy into the few important events I have with my family a year.

I'm just so incredibly angry.

[Mo]

I can understand why you're angry! This sounds like a really frustrating situation, for sure.

Sometimes being a broken record can be helpful when someone isn't changing their behavior. When your mom asks about having her boyfriend come to events or wants you to spend more time with him, I think it's ok to just repeat something like "I've told you that I'm not ready to spend a lot of time with him yet. I will let you know when that time comes, but until then I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to make it happen."

I wonder, too, if it might be helpful to plan on seeing your mom a little less often in general for the time being. If you already have the idea in your mind that social things won't happen quite as often for a while, it could make it easier to deal with circumstances as they are. For events like the upcoming cultural festival, is that something you'd enjoy going to on your own, or with other friends? If you can make sure you're still doing things you enjoy (even if they aren't happening the way you'd prefer, for events that you like taking part in with your mom), instead of missing out on them altogether, that might make things a little less stressful or frustrating right now.

[Atonement]

So, I talked with my mother more, ad she agreed not to bring him to that particular thing.

She invited me out to the house on Saturday for a barbecue, and I've actually been thinking about going. I kind of want to get this over with, and maybe if I just bite the bullet and do it it won't be such an issue anymore.

However, something else has come up that might not make that the best idea.

I went to my therapist this morning and we talked about a lot of stuff. This stuff here, but also other things that have been going on.

I've been very much not enjoying my job lately. Nothing has changed, but I guess the newness has worn off, and it never really was a part of nursing that I wanted to go into. I also have found treating patients in the same health state as my dad kind of depressing.

But I can't just blame that. I've always been a homebody, but the last couple months have been ridiculous. Like, I'll have 3-4 days off, and will plan my meals around going to the grocery store because I don't want to leave the house. Or, I'll plan events and then cancel them because I want to stay home. I don't have energy to do anything besides hang out on my couch and read books.

Basically, we had a talk and I think I've had low-level depression pretty much since puberty, but I've always been able to blame it on something circumstantial. When I lived with my dad, everything would be fine after I got away from the abuse. When I was in college, everything would be fine after I graduated, etc. And I never really recognized it as depression because I was able to distract myself here and there, and because it isn't the kind of depression they make books, movies and articles out of.

But now that I'm settling into my adult life, I'm realizing that not much has changed, and not there is no "magic day" when my life will be better, and I need to start finding a way to be happy in my life as is, and maybe then I can start participating more.

So, my therapist and I talked, and we decided it might be time to try medication. I made an appointment with my PCP tomorrow. At first I was kind of nervous, but then I got to thinking. I have kind of been agonizing over the way I feel for months, and have been worried that I'll never be able to live a normal life. I've tried really hard with therapy, and it certainly helps, but it hasn't really been enough. And if something as easy as taking a pill can make me feel better and help me participate in my own life, it's worth trying. I'm kind of at the point where I'm almost excited.

The only thing is timing. I'm going to the doctor tomorrow, and since I kind of don't want to start the med on a workday since I'm afraid I might react badly, the logical time to take it would be Saturday. But it also seems like a SUPER bad idea to start a new antidepressant the same day you meet your mom's boyfriend that you really have a lot of tricky feelings about.

So, should I meet him Saturday and start the meds on Sunday? Or should I postpone meeting him some more? I certainly didn't agree to go yet, I just told her that I would think about it. But on the other hand, I've read that it can take months to adjust on these kind of meds, and I don't think it's realistic to put it off for months.

I'm also not sure if I want to tell my mother about the meds. I know that she will be vaguely supportive of me, but then go around and tell me every negative feeling that i have is either because a) I have depression or b) because my meds are throwing me out of balance. But it also seems like something I don't really want to keep a secret from her.

What do you guys think?

[Onionpie]

Hi Atonement! I'm glad to hear that you're feeling positive about trying new medication. I hope they work out for you!

Starting the meds the day you meet her boyfriend actually wouldn't have any effect -- the meds have to accumulate in your system for a bit before they start working, you usually start feeling their effects after a few weeks. So, just know that that will probably be a non-issue!

However, remember that you absolutely 100% get to choose when you want to meet this guy, you're not being unreasonable in any way, and you're allowed to feel the way you feel about this situation. Your mum constantly badgering you to be ready sooner is neither helpful nor respectful. You can't FORCE readiness. So, if you really are alright with meeting him on Saturday, go for it! If you're feeling like you're just not up for it yet, then you really don't have to be!

The same thing applies to whether you tell your mum about your depression and meds. You can always take some time to think about it and make your mind up later on. And you can always reassess as you go -- you might feel like you're not ready to tell her yet, but feel more ready to do so later on. It's not information that she has the RIGHT to know -- you telling her is totally up to your discretion, so don't feel like you're being a liar or keeping a big dark secret from her! It's just a matter of keeping some things private, and that's totally acceptable

[Atonement]

I took my first pill today and am a little nervous. I keep thinking I'm feeling something and then realizing that it's impossible because it's only been 15 minutes, lol. But my doctor said that with this particular pill there's a good chance that it all start having SOME kind of effect sooner than you mentioned, though she told me to give it 3 weeks before we make any adjustments, unless I have a REALLY bad side effect.

Unless sometime in the next few hours my meds make me go berserk, I am planning to go to the barbecue today. I feel generally OK-ish about it, and it dawned on me that there will be other people that I know there, which should make things significantly less awkward than if it was just him, my mom and my siblings. So, I may as well take advantage of this while I can, because the opportunity might not arise again.

I figure other people will act as a distraction, and make it easier for me to slip out without causing a big fuss if I need to. Also, I will have other people to talk to besides him and my mom, and am more likely to be able to spend a little time with my mom without him being right there.

[Sam W]

Hi Atonement,

Yep, in my experience it takes several weeks to feel the full effects (even though your brain sometimes goes "was that an effect?" after only a few days because you're expecting to feel a change).

Fingers crossed that the barbeque goes well. It sounds like you've got a solid plan in place for how to spend your time there

[Heather]

Hey there, Atonement. I have been a bit out of the loop due to illness again, but I have some thoughts about your mother - your relationship with her, her relationships with men, and how that has all impacted your life and the relationship between the two of you - I could toss your way as food for thought if you're open.

Just know there has been a lot to think about already, so don't want to overload you.

[Atonement]

Well, the good thing is that the make believe effects (Placebo effect or coincidence? Who knows..) are good ones.

Today I feel pretty energetic and optimistic, even though I'm doing something I've kind of been dreading for a while. Of course, I used to get this feeling for exams too. Sometimes after studying for ages, I'd feel really good about finally taking them just because one way or another it would end all the apprehension.

Heather, I always want to hear your thoughts!

[Heather]

You got it.

So, as you -- and I, from years of reading your experiences and thoughts -- know, it's awfully clear that your mother's identity is very much laser-focused on who she is to the man in her life at a given time. Perhaps any man, regardless of how he treats her (or you); regardless of the impact that has on her (or you). I know that hurts like hell in a bunch of different ways, and I know how much it has hurt and confused you.

I also get trying to fix that, like by telling your mother things again and again despite the fact that there's never seemed to be any indication she's heard you or is going to hear you. In fact, I think it's pretty clear that unless she really does her own work, like you've spent so much time and energy trying to do yours, work she couldn't possibly do while still attached to what she has to do the work about (this laser-focus on a husband or boyfriend, seemingly to the exclusion of all and everyone else, including her child), she's simply never going to be able to hear you. And again, I know that hurts like hell. Who knows (though you probably have some sense of it) what got her here, and I am sure it comes from a place of her own pain, but this is the long reality of things.

What is generally suggested when dealing with this kind of dynamic, and someone not only so stuck like this, but who seems so dedicated to staying stuck, is to try to do what you can to not get sucked into enabling them, something you obviously don't want and have struggled hard to try not to do. In fact, the dynamics of what have been going on with this new boyfriend sound like her fighting hard to try and reel you in, and you fighting hard not to be.

I would suggest that until she does her own work -- if she ever does -- you try and figure out what you need and want for yourself, and how you can stand for that, and do that, by changing your behavior rather than -- however understandable and valid it is -- trying to get her to change hers. I'd personally advise giving up on trying to tell her about your feelings and wants, because as you make clear, she simply isn't hearing you. That exercise alone strikes me as something that's only going to cause you pain.

Rather, I would stick to some basic lines you hold and simply repeat to her without explanation. Like, when she says something about how you will be ready to be part of her new relationship in time, you might just always tell her that you do not want to discuss this with her, at all, and are asking her to respect that limit. She does it again, you repeat. She asks you about why or lectures, manipulates, whatever, you just stay the broken record of your simple limits.

That can include being part of things you want to be while still holding your lines, and while still staying exactly as disengaged as you want to from her relationships. I know that's challenging, especially with someone who is good at roping you in and who you so badly want to have a better, more mutually loving and respectful relationship with.

The good news is that if she is going to change, you making your own changes like this support that. They can't make it happen, of course, but if she ever has any desire to change, someone like you refusing to enable her in all this codependent, I-am-only-a-person-when-with-a-man stuff can go a long way, on top of also likely being what's best for you.

Does any of that make sense or feel at all right for you?

[Heather]

I also want to add something else: I think if you look at so many of the struggles you have had over the years when it comes to your own self-esteem, it's sound to consider that it's not a shocker you have had them when raised by a mother who doesn't seem to have any of her own outside of her relationships with men. I think about your history, and I keep landing on how much you have struggled to define yourself otherwise -- to be healthier than your mother in this respect -- and I hope you can give yourself props for still slogging through and fighting so hard for yourself, and to be a self that is someone of value separate from a marriage or a boyfriend.

Because good gravy, Atonement, the model you have had around this has been so, so broken, it's amazing to me how well you have done for yourself when it comes to all this. I know it sure hasn't been anything close to easy, but I hope you're proud of you when it comes to all of this, because it's laudable.

[Atonement]

Thank you, Heather!

I got a chance to read your post before I left today, and I'm so glad I did. Reading it really helped me get through today.

In some ways, it was kind of pointless. I didn't talk to the guy much, and he wasn't a very easy to read person, so I really have no positive or negative impression of him. It almost feels like I haven't met him.

The good thing was that some of her friends were there. And I guess she had told them about my reactions to her relationships. Which actually turned out to be good, because they were really supportive and sympathetic, and it turns out they'd made all the same observations and opinions that I had. But they all seemed to think that she "finally found a good one", so hopefully they're right. I don't think there's any hope for my mother ever working on her own issues, so hopefully she can at least find someone who is overall good and non-abusive to be codependent with.

I did get very, very angry though when I found out that she had gotten a tattoo of his name. She has gotten tattoos impulsively multiple times over the last few years, and that has always been something we've argued for. I guess I shouldn't be having opinions of what someone else does with their body, but I guess in my mind this has been kind of a physical embodiment of the recklessness that she exhibits. It also didn't help that she had planned to keep it a secret from me, yet didn't even bother to cover it up.

I got very upset and considered leaving, but I had brought a cake that hadn't been cut and I didn't want to leave without my pan, so I didn't.

I guess it kind of is time for me to give up, but it's SO hard. The idea of not telling her my thoughts and feelings is kind of making me cry right now because she's my mom and I love her more than anything and I want her to be someone I can turn to for support SO badly. But it hasn't been working, and I'm usually sensible enough not to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. But I feel very, very alone. And it kind of feels like If my mom can't love me enough, then who will?

I'm really, really hoping that maybe when the meds kick in I'll be able to cope with this better and find some peace wth myself and in my friendships and things like that. Because even though I mostly did well today, right now I feel like I might never be happy again.

Honestly, I also feel kind of betrayed by her. Heather, I feel like you're the only person in the world who remembers what happened back then besides me, so you know how much of myself I put into her and my family's wellbeing and safety. I supported her even at times where quite frankly she didn't deserve it. And then as soon as my dad was under control and stopped being abusive, I really thought she and I could have a normal relationship. But instead she just goes on to the next thing.

Another thing that kind of bothered me was last week after the fight we had about the concert, she said that it really bothered her so she went and saw a therapist (I think she has seen the lady 3 times total). And apparently the therapist told her that by me holding her to her compromise, she was allowing me to manipulate her. Honestly, that really hurt. I guess maybe I am manipulative, but all I want are the few things that I feel like I am owed. But I "released" her from the bargain, because I don't want someone to do things or spend time with me just because I made them.

Heather, I really appreciate what you said on your PS post. The only person that I really talk to in person about what went on then that knew me at the time is my mom, and honestly she kind of minimizes what happened. So sometimes, I really feel like I'm overreacting to what happened.

I also have a tendency to only see how far I still have to go and not how far I've come. So it really does make me feel good that someone who I respect thinks I've done a good job.

[Heather]

I think all of the feelings you are talking about here are valid.

While I'm certainly glad I can be someone you have to validate your history, I am very sorry I feel like one of the only people who can. What you've lived through was real, and your mother's responsibility with all of it, which, sadly, it sounds weird like she's still working very hard to evade, is also real, whether she claims it or not.

I think with talking with her, the thing to ask yourself is what you're looking for it in and how -- as well as if -- it benefits you. What are you looking to get out of it? Do you leave those talks feeling better or worse? Do you leave them feeling heard or ignored? Do you leave them feeling validated or refused?

It's certainly understandable to try (been there, done that, and I have a closet full of those t-shirts myself, if it's any consolation), and goodness knows it's understandable to want your own parent to see you, hear you and care as much about your feelings and their impact on you and your life as their own. But if it's hurting you more than helping you, I think it's wise to reassess it and consider trying a different approach.

I would be very surprised, by the way, if you have been manipulative with your mother (and suspect she is as good at gaslighting a therapist as she has been with you if, in fact, the therapist even really said that in the first place). I don't know you in person, but in the way I can know you, I have known you a long time and feel like I have a very good sense of the person you are, and that feels very counter to the person I know.

Please keep me posted on how I can best support you with all of this. I'm rooting for you over here, and I very much want for you to be able to have the life that you want where you also get to be -- and feel confident in -- the wonderful person I know you are.

[Atonement]

I woke up feeling better today. Sleep really is a powerful thing.

I guess the thing I realized overnight is that I can still talk to her about my thoughts and feelings about OTHER things, I just need to exercise this around the stuff that pertains to her. So, I can still open up about things with my job/friends/etc. Just no more begging.

Though, I will say, she has tried in some aspects that has made our relationship better. For example, one thing is that we fought about a few weeks ago is that she was not returning my calls or even texts. But since then, I aways do get a return call or text in a reasonable amount of time. So I don't know if I want to completely cut off about everything, because that was one thing she did hear me about, and it has made things better.

(I thought I posted this before your reply, but apparently I never his submit. So posting this and then reading your response)

[Atonement]

One thing that I mentioned above but didn't go into detail with is her friends.

They have heard about this conflict exclusively from her perspective, yet they were really supportive with me and treated my feelings as real and valid in a way that she hasn't, even though they HADN'T heard her side of the story.

That made me feel more confident that my feelings have been valid, and it also helps to know that there are other people on "my team" looking out for her, so maybe I can feel a little less pressure to intervene.

Honestly, I have had my doubts about exactly what that therapist told her myself. My mom had a tendency to amplify people's words and portray them to others in a way that the original speaker did not intend. For example, she'll tell me that my brother "loves" her new boyfriend, but my brother's words are "he's alright so far"

I will keep you updated, for sure, and let you guys know when i feel like I need support. I was thinking, and you're right. I HAVE made it a long way, and I honestly don't think I'd be here without your support

[Heather]

...and your own strength and courage in fighting for yourself, don't forget!

(And that's great about her friends. Especially considering the generational gap that's built-in with a lot of women your mother's age -- I still see plenty of it with straight women my age, even though it was far less prevalent for Gen X women then for our forebears -- that deeply supported/supports the idea that women are validated only by their value to men.)