masturbation double standards

[bikinksterboy]

why does society generally seem to view female masturbation as alluring and sensual while male masturbation is seen as passionless and gross? is this an example of heteronormativity, sexism, or is there something else I'm missing/a mix of various things?

[Karyn]

It's interesting you say that, because that's not the impression I've generally gotten! Often, the cultural messaging around masturbation that I have encountered frames women masturbating as odd at best, whereas men masturbating is portrayed as a normal, expected thing. (Maybe it's a generational thing, hmmmm.)

Do you mind sharing where it is that you've encountered the idea that men masturbating is gross, whereas women masturbating is sexy or alluring?

[bikinksterboy]

hmmm I think I see it the most in porn(at least mainstream straight porn that is), and the way people online talk about masturbation, at least when it comes to things like toys the idea is that a girl with a dildo is something you'd "want" to see regardless of gender (because *of course* every girl is secretly bi and wants to have a threesome UGH) while a guy using a flashlight would be somehow "Creepy" I've seen this attitude mostly on sites like reddit, as well as occasionally in real life. the idea that a girl being sexual is inherently something to be objectified while a guy doing it is just a mindless horndog is what I'm sorta referring to. if any of this is contradictory, confusing or anything else I apologize. also I am aware this is probably complicated somewhat by the various non binary identities and trans people but most talk I've seen in general on the topic has been cis-centric

[Redskies]

I think there's a big, big difference between what's "normal" in porn and what's common and acceptable in the world in general. The vast majority of porn is made for (cis, straight) men, and very definitely with the male gaze in mind: that is, no matter who might be actually watching, there's sort of an underlying assumption that it'll be everything it needs to be if it was pleasing to your (very stereotypical) average man. So, of course porn in general is very centred around displaying women behaving sexually. It's also very poor indeed at representing what women would be more likely to enjoy if they were actually being sexual.

I'm actually in agreement with you about the overall attitude to men's masturbation in the world in general. I can think of a lot of instances in popular culture and in real life where it's been the punchline to a belittling joke, where it is indeed seen as gross and meaningless. Where I'd very much disagree is about attitudes to women's masturbation. Men's masturbation at least seems to be pretty normalised. Women's masturbation really isn't, I don't think. There isn't the same automatic recognition that most women do it; it's still scandalous. References in popular culture are very different: there's a lot less, for a start, but they also usually function differently. They're often there either as an intended turn-on to the sterotypical guy from above (so, if the character was doing that for real, there's a decent chance she wouldn't actually be enjoying what she was doing), or they demonstrate something about the woman's character and/or sexuality, nearly always negative - that she's "over-sexed", or disreputable, or a far-out-there-rulebreaker... I can also think of a bunch of examples where people have described women's masturbation - real or a representation, intended for her own pleasure rather than as entertainment for our stereotypical guy - as "disgusting", not alluring or sensual.

I think you hit the nail on the head with

a girl being sexual is inherently something to be objectified

She's there for someone else's enjoyment, and that's cool and all and hot... but if she were to be a sexual being, if she was being sexual for her own enjoyment and for her own self, suddenly that's not appealing or even acceptable. Her value is as a performance for somebody else, just as if she were an object.

[Catherwren]

Yeah, I always thought it was perceived as women never masterbating, and men doing it as a normal thing. For example, I think having a female orgasm in a movie gives it a 14A rating or something but a man orgasming only gives it a PG13 rating

[bikinksterboy]

ok so, this whole thread came about from young me confusing the fact that mainstream porn intended for straight men naturally would not focus on male masturbation in the same way as with women, with some kind of general indication about culture, combined with general stigma about masturbation going into that as well. I wasn't really considering the idea that "dominant" discourse is far from the only discourse or the only one that really matters, and so I kind of de-emphasized the importance of counter-trends in media, ie queer male porn/erotica etc that does exactly that. Naturally the guy masturbating isn't gonna be hot in typical straight porn because the dude is supposed to be the audience surrogate, not the object of desire. I do also recognize now as then that there is in fact much non-gay-male media, often made by hetero or bi or otherwise women specifically about male masturbation with a gaze being thrown upon it, and that it's as legitimate as the mainstream stuff