Biological sex insecurity

[cityofthedead]

Bear with yourself here, COTD.

I realize how batshit I went on the political section of these forums. I think this is one of those situations where I completely misunderstood my own motives. I thought I would have my life and genes possessed and controlled by a woman if I were to make her pregnant. Now my focus has shifted to what I really want to talk about: how I feel about my own self and my own body. When I said on My other discussion that I felt wasteful and monstrous, I wasn't trying to manipulate you or make you say what I want to read, it's legitimately how I feel. I also said on the other forums that if women are the ones who carry the babies, and especially now that they can do so with artificial insemenation, I feel like a waste of what could've been a precious life of bearing and raising children with full autonomy. I could get a sex reassignment when I'm older, but that would be totally off the table considering I am mostly attracted to females. Besides, I am so used to my penis and testicles that I just can't give them up. I just feel like I'm almost purposeless given my anatomical reproductive function. I just don't feel deserving of love and independence given that the only reproductive purpose I have is releasing a bodily fluid.

Please understand, though, that you may not understand some of the things I say here because I'm usually not very good at explaining things, especially something as serious and complex as this. I know this is very depressing, but it's the best way I know how to explain. Again, I'm very sorry about the other forums.

[Sam W]

Hi cityofthedead,

Thank you for your apology, and for trying to re-articulate some of the things you're feeling right now. There are a lot of things going on in your post, so I'm going to start by addressing a few of them and we can go from there.

It sounds like some of what is happening is that you're attaching a lot of meaning and importance to being able to not only create a pregnancy, but to be the one who does most of the "work" (in this case, carrying the pregnancy to term). While there can be immense cultural, emotional, physical, and psychological weight to carrying a pregnancy (a weight that people who can carry a pregnancy feel a multitude of ways about), that doesn't mean the other partner is purposeless. They can, and in many cases do, offer all kinds of support to the person who is carrying the pregnancy. And if the relationship is such that they are around after the child is born, they can also have a huge role to play in helping raise that child. Does that make sense?

Too, I hear you saying that you fear you're not deserving of love based on what you feel would be your contribution to a pregnancy. I'd offer the counterpoint that most people choose a partner and/or fall in love based on a multitude of factors. Is the ability and the desire to create a pregnancy one of those factors? Sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't. The ability to create a pregnancy can be the last thing on a person's mind when they're looking for a partner (if they're even interested in pregnancy at all). And that's before we even get into things like the fact that there are plenty of happy, loving couples where pregnancy is never even on the table as an option because of biological reasons. So I'd encourage you try not tie your sense of worth as a partner too closely to what you physically could contribute to a pregnancy.

(As an aside, people of all sexual orientations can undergo sex reassignment surgery (SRS). But, from what you're describing, it doesn't sound like SRS is actually something you feel would be helpful or relevant to your situation).

[cityofthedead]

I've been thinking for 17 days what to say next here. Thank you for your time. It's not any easier to write than what I started this discussion with.

I like what Sam said about supporting a pregnant partner, but what I've been thinking is quite harsh to me. I sometimes feel like I would've been better off born a girl. I would be more vulnerable to sexual abuse, but when I grow into a woman, I'd be the one deciding when to have children with all the bearing on me without guys interfering with my plans. Since society continues executing the idea that straight guys are and should always be open to sex, and that women are incapable of perpetrating sexual abuse, even the law gives women total ownership over babies that grow inside of them, and the time was perfect for me to start having children, and I had no partner, I could just ask some dude to have sex with me and get me pregnant without it coming off as strange or creepy. I could just touch and grab him and make him horny. Even if I would somehow have to face criminal charges, I could just call it off as an act of slut shaming. I'd be socially accepted to ask for and obtain access to a man's reproductive fluids versus if I, as a man, tried to impregnate a woman and make her go through searing pain for nine months and bear psychological effects afterwards. Besides, the guy is the one who experiences so much of the pleasure and physical stimulation of sexual intercourse to the point that it would come off as silly, even sometimes weird, if they passed up an opportunity for immense pleasure that normally isn't available to them that easily, and they don't have anything that changes and affects their bodies the way a pregnancy does.

I said on my other discussion that I don't deserve your empathy. Part of that is because most of you who run Scarleteen are female, so you don't know what it's truly like to play such a small part in reproduction and reproductive autonomy. I'm not against any of you individually or as an organization. It's just that, since I'm a guy, it's hard for me to identify with what some of you say and the advice you give.

For some last notes in this long post, I am not trying to imply that women just want babies all the time. They will and will not want to have children at given points in their lives. As I've hopefully made clear through the entire post, having children is their right and their responsibility. I also understand for the most part how female anatomy works during sex. When I said that guys would just wanna have sex with me as a woman, I didn't imply that I don't know what foreplay and lubrication are. I do.

[Heather]

I am not here for long enough to respond to all of this, and I am sorry to have to say what I do here, because I know that you don't feel good about continuing to step in it, and I do think you're trying.

But. I need to please remind you or inform you that not all women can reproduce, want to reproduce, and/or do reproduce. All women who do reproduce also don't have a choice in that when they do, and some would have chosen not to. This is not all women's "function" or "role," even for those who can and DO reproduce. Your last paragraph does not undo the previous ones in that regard, not does it really see the forest through the trees here.

And I need to ask you, around that -- for everyone, but also as one of these women, and one who comes from a pregnancy and birth that wasn't a choice, for whom reading you talking like this as you have been has been earnestly painful -- to please stop talking the way you have been around this. I feel certain you don't intend to be hurtful, but you are being hurtful.

[cityofthedead]

I thought what I said would help you understand, but it seems that it didn't. I'm sorry that I have been unintentionally causing you to feel hurt and bashed. I guess I shouldn't be brutally honest and thorough like I have been here. I was trying to express how ashamed I feel of being a man. I need to read your articles more thoroughly. I wish I knew better about what I can say here. I should never have even joined these forums. I feel like I should try using a different sexual health resource that's more centered upon men. I still respect you, but I plan to seek out sexual health platforms that are more applicable to me.

[Sunshine]

Hey there,

I said I wouldn't engage much around here these days because I am beyond my twenties now, but I feel like I want to say a few things in response here. Please tell me to back off if I am being inappropriate or unhelpful.

Cityofthedead, you sound very unhappy and frustrated. The thoughts and fears you describe around your potential reproductive role seem to be weighing you down and I am sorry to hear (well, read) that.

While your feelings are of course real, some of the scenarios you describe sound rather unlikely to me. For example, most guys I know would certainly consider it creepy if a woman would just walked up to them, grab them and go "hey, get me pregnant". Not that I can think of any actual, real life woman who would do that.

And just because you do not have the kind of body parts that are necessary for carrying a pregnancy, that certainly does not mean all you could contribute to new life would be "releasing a body fluid". Being a father can be so much more than that! It's sad to think you feel that way when there are so many people of all genders being amazing parents, in some cases to children that their body fluids had absolutely nothing to do with.

As both the daughter and the co-parent of a very loving, involved father, I wish there was some way I could make you see how much you could matter and what a difference you could make.

Re: sites that focus on the male perspective, are you familiar with Dr Nerdlove? He's more about dating advice than sex ed, but he has some pieces on self-worth and masculinity that you might perhaps find interesting.

[Sunshine]

P.S.: I just realized I made it sound as if I had a child with my own father - that's not the case, of course. I was talking about two different men. Duh, but just wanted to make that very clear!

[Heather]

As we've talked before in other threads, the issue isn't about you being honest (or male), and I also don't think it's about those of us who have taken issue with what you have said not understanding what you are saying. It's about you, I think, not really considering or getting that this isn't a one-on-one chat or therapy session, it's a community where other people you are talking about, often as if we are not here, are present. I also think it's perhaps just about being so caught up in your own distress, you're just really not seeing other people/people's lives except through your own lens.

Like I said, I'm sorry to have to keep calling you out, because I can tell you are making an effort, but we just can't let some of the things you have been saying here stand, whether that's because they're not factual or because they're just hurtful.

Just as one clear example, you said,
"I would be more vulnerable to sexual abuse, but when I grow into a woman, I'd be the one deciding when to have children with all the bearing on me without guys interfering with my plans."

As if being more vulnerable to sexual abuse is not a big deal -- please remember that that vulnerability has resulted in/results in many of us being abused and assaulted, it's not just some theoretical thing -- AND as if all women get to decide when to have children without men having any power in those choices, which is just very, very deeply divorced from the realities of most women around the world, particularly poor women and women of color. Having issues with statements like this -- and tbh, I find that whole paragraph that statement is in very deeply disturbing, particularly since it is so, so divorced from real women's lives, experiences and challenges: that is just not even remotely the reality for women on the whole -- isn't about us not understanding what you're saying, it's having strong objections to what you are saying.

You certainly have my support in seeking out and finding whatever kind of spaces you want and need for yourself. But I would suggest you consider that men who know what's what and who aren't dehumanizing women in some way are unlikely to say anything much different from what we (including some of the guys here who have interacted with you) will say. If what they do say is wildly different from what we have, or feels like it validates some of what you've said that we've suggested is problematic or unrealistic, you might want to reconsider if that's so great. Being supported in biased, problematic or simply false beliefs isn't great for anyone.

I do agree though, that what you seem to be wanting to do here and seeking here isn't a good fit, not for anyone, and that it's probably best you move on. I am always sorry when that's the rare case, because, of course, we want it to work for as many people as possible here. But like any place, it's just not going to work for everyone, nor can we help people with everything they need help with or offer all the kinds of services people need. I hope that you can find help that meets your needs and helps you move through some of these feelings and beliefs and come out on the other side of them.

In the meantime, I have gone ahead and changed your account so that your posts will go into a moderation queue for staff review first before they are posted, just so you're aware. I feel that's best for everyone at this point. I also don't see any benefit to anyone to leaving this thread open, so I'm going ahead and locking it up.