The sex lives of CSA survivors

[PishPosh997]

If you have experienced child sexual abuse, would anyone feel comfortable talking about your sexuality?

I would like to talk to other survivors to see that I am not alone. I know some survivors do feel fearful of sex, but I don’t consider myself to be that way from what I have read. I have had people offline stereotype me to fit the media presentation.

On Reddit, the survivors I spoke too said they went through hypersexual phases and know others who have done the same. On another survivor forum, most posters agreed with me on liking certain sexual acts. That makes me feel somewhat better.

I keep worrying on if I am abnormal for survivor? Right now, I prefer not to discuss sex with non-survivor friends. The experiences have been bad and I discovered that we are very different from each other.

[Heather]

Hey there. Glad you felt able to start this up.

I think it's totally understandable to want to limit talk about your sex life as a survivor to only doing with other survivors sometimes (or even always, honestly, if that's where you're at). The combination of ignorance about sexual abuse and assault, ignorance about survivors and ignorance about human sexuality, paired with a culture, no matter where you are, that largely blames victims makes it an awfully toxic stew sometimes, not to mention frequently having zero benefit to survivors.

I'm poking in here as both being on my job here, but also as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and assault.

Honestly, I find even "hypersexuality" in and of itself an iffy framework. The language of the term alone -- "hyper" combined with sexual -- is pretty shaming as well as misleading. As both a survivor and an educator and advocate in sexuality (and abuse), I personally prefer to avoid that term and framework and instead, if we're going to talk about survivors seeking out sex after abuse, to do so recognizing from the front that there's no "right" amount of sexual activity or desire for anyone, so the idea of anyone being hyper- or hypo- sexual is problematic. As well, the idea that survivors who seek out sex after abuse are "hypersexual" kind of suggests we're supposed to be broken by abuse and not want anything sexual, which sure gives abusers exactly the power they are looking to have, you know?

All that said, there's nothing abnormal about survivors of sexual trauma still desiring or seeking out sex, alone or with others; there's almost nothing abnormal about survivors of sexual trauma NOT wanting to be sexual. What there is are a very wide range of responses and experiences, both from survivor to survivor, but also even in a lifetime as a survivor, you know? Same goes with what kinds of sex people like: that is all of the map for survivors just like it is for people who haven't experienced CSA or other sexual abuse or assault. We're all just as different and variable sexually as everyone else.

I'm comfortable talking more personally about my sexuality so long as it's not uncomfortable for anyone using the forums here, given my role. So, I'll just pay attention to the cues of yourself, Hellocupcake, and any other users who participate here, when it comes to that.

[PishPosh997]

Hi Heather,

I also want to be mindful of not offending anyone, because everyone is so different. If a survivor doesn’t want sex, I want to respect that choice too.

Thanks for sharing your view on “hypersexuality.” I can see why that’s problematic based on what you said. I used the term “hypersexual”, because I am so angry at the people in my life who tried to make me feel something was wrong. Maybe a better way to put things is to own that I see myself a very sexual person. And, that’s it. Frankly, I already was thinking about sex and boys before the CSA happened.

When I read these article saying how “survivors either become promiscuous or avoidant,”I think that’s too black and white. There has to be some people who really are in between that. Where I am now, I don’t think my sexual behavior is problematic.

With how I was during teenage years, I am scared to share those details. People can stigmatize that too. The term “promiscuous” is so subjective. When I was growing up, giving oral with a few guys was too provocative in my school. Then, I see people on r/sex saying that several sex partners is no big deal. It gets confusing hearing mixed messages.

When I told someone online that I used to have nsa sex and stopped, he got judgmental and said “you can’t do that.” He thought that being a sexual survivor meant that you cheat on people.

I am sorry if that’s weird. I am still working on this in therapy. Discussing CSA and other adult sexual assault trauma.

I would like to hear more about your sexuality and others, if people are comfortable with it.

[Heather]

Maybe a better way to put things is to own that I see myself a very sexual person. And, that’s it. Frankly, I already was thinking about sex and boys before the CSA happened.

I think that's the case for a lot of survivors in this particular spot. I know that it's been true for me, as well (though in my case, it wasn't just boys, and I probably don't have to tell you that my queerness was a thing that has gotten the full "well, maybe that's because you were abused," treatment, as if abuse is a thing one needs to find women attractive, FFS). And it's stayed true, over decades. Again, we're all different, but I know speaking for myself, and after a long life, loads of therapy and many years working in all of this as my job, to boot, I can say that I was going to be a person very interested in sex and sexuality no matter what.

I also agree with you on "promiscuous." It's another word that just generally gets a big stink-eye from me. I think a piece I wrote here in the blog a while back might be a thing that you appreciate: http://www.scarleteen.com/blog/heather_ ... ivor_stere

None of what you're saying here sounds weird to me. Sadly, neither do a lot of the responses from others you have talked about here and in other threads. As a sex educator, I know all too well how ignorant people are about human sexuality, and the same goes with my spot as an educator about sexual abuse. I think it's safe to say most people are really ignorant about both. I think, unfortunately, we have to choose who we talk to about either or both of these things really carefully when we want to share things that are personal, particularly if we don't feel up to or aren't in the mood for (and who ever is?) probably just winding up debunking a bunch of bull, something that's often very beneficial to others, but can be really exhausting and not-so-great for ourselves, you know?

[PishPosh997]

Heather, I loved that article! It answered so many questions I had. That’s how I feel exactly. I couldn’t put these things in words. The article hit the mark on so many things.

I want to ask you about CSA and sexual orientation. I have heard multiple people say CSA victims turn gay and get scared of men. I got into an argument with a former therapist on how I wasn’t gay. She told me that half of her CSA clients are gay. I am thinking “what about the half of them who aren’t gay?” She also suggested that maybe I have issues with Piv bc I don’t like men? Um no....

That’s good to know about ignorance. I wasn’t sure if I was the only one encountering this. I thought that a lot of what is said in sex educational articles is common sense.

I think you said something about survivors knowing what we want and don’t want. My experiences definitely made me more confident with letting male partners know “hey, this is what I like and want to do during sex. If you have a problem with it, we aren’t a good match.” A guy has the option to leave, if he doesn’t like my preferences.

[Heather]

Ugh, "turn gay." So offensive. That's some of the ignorance I was talking about. Sexual orientation doesn't work like that, not for survivors, not for anyone, so there's also ignorance in there about orientation, not just survivors. Sigh. And gotta love the extra homophobia in that that suggests anyone who's gay is basically broken, as if they were not, they'd of course be straight. I'm horrified to think of someone like that treating gay or otherwise queer patients, honestly. They undoubtedly are equally stupid and misinformed about any trans patients. Their poor patients.

Like I said, these really aren't conversations we can often have with just anyone without facing a mountain of ignorance from a ton of different fronts. It's so maddening, especially as someone working in this a long time, and feeling like we really should be past some of this garden-variety stupid, given the time that has passed and the education work that's been done.

Per your last paragraph, I've certainly experienced that myself -- assertiveness with sex has always been something I'm particularly better at than most people, and while some of that is my personality, part of it -- for myself -- is also about having survived abuse and done so much hard work to survive as well as to heal. Having control over my own body and sexuality is non-negotiable to me, as is only being with people sexually who are totally on-board with that, just as a thing.

[PishPosh997]

Hello heather,

When you asked me about cultural competency in the other thread, I will say that I wasn’t prepared on how to handle friends being blunt and nosy questions. I came from a culture where people don’t dare bring up sex with each other. My parents never taught me how to handle this, because their social circle didn’t do this. Sex is meant to be very private in my ethnicity.

Once I got to college, I would freeze when people wanted to know things that people in my culture don’t ask. Do you think that my generation puts a lot of pressure on talking about sex and dating? Some friends thought I was weird for not coming off as boy crazy. I felt like I had to fit in with such friends who loved talking about their sex life. The people who judged me were very open about their sexual escapades.

My family didn’t realize that people would be so invasive towards me. What they taught me most was to be polite to everyone. I admit I gave in to peer pressure to be polite!

As for the therapist and being gay, she told me “you will know when you’re gay or straight, when you fall in love.” What....that doesn’t make sense to me?

I am very happy to hear your experience. I do feel less alone!

[Heather]

I think there's been a lot of peer pressure in the West to talk about this for the last few generations, but it's also tricky, because a lot of that comes from a good place. NOT talking about these things with anyone but sexual or romantic partners -- if that! -- is also problematic. But for sure, I think that a lot of people could stand to learn how to HAVE these conversations first. After all, these are heady, loaded topics, especially for those of us with any trauma involved in them. People who talk about all of this the same way they talk about sports? Eh, that often is not going to be so great for a lot of people.

That was probably one of the first things I learned fast as a sex educator. I'm someone who despite trauma (or who knows, maybe my trauma informed this, as well, as it has so many things) always talked in a very relaxed, free way about sex, and when I was much younger, I for sure would have been one of those people being candid to a degree that was probably often TMI and probably didn't leave a lot of room for people who had different comfort levels and different life experiences.

Culturally, being trauma-informed is still something *just* gaining traction, even though in a good number of helping professions, we've been cued into this for a while. But I think it's safe to say the general public is way behind, and rape culture really doesn't help with this. Speaking for myself, over many years (I'm almost 50, so I've obviously had more time than yourself and other users here with all this) I've learned to be very plain when a way people are talking about sex doesn't work for me as a survivor. But being very direct is my general style, anyway, and the stakes are also lower for me in most situations at this stage of things. That said, if you'd like to talk about strategies to effectively tell people to back off about this stuff in a way that let you have some boundaries but also didn't leave you feeling impolite (and thus, more vulnerable, which is usually how that makes us feel, with the cultural expectation of us being polite), I'd be happy to do that with you.

I am especially sorry to hear that you shared intimate things because you feared not being polite. Oy, the things women will do to avoid being seen as impolite, and how messed up it is how many things we've learned we have to do, and so many of them involve giving up the boundaries we want and need, to -- g-d forbid! -- have someone think us as rude. I think when you or your family is immigrant, that doubles that pressure. Of color means even MORE. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

[PishPosh997]

I agree with everything you said. Even if people mean well by being so open about sex, the comments that were received were insensitive. It opens a can of worms when I share something and they say something.

I wonder how to handle responding to things like,

“You didnt have real sex. Oral doesn’t count”

“Pain during Piv means you have vaginismus and are scared of sex.”

“Why didn’t you do Piv.”

“I bet you never have casual sex because you need so much foreplay.”

“You’re scared of pleasure.”

I did correct some of these people who made these comments, but it didn’t work too well. Someone started screaming at me when I said oral sex is sex. I get tongue tied trying to explain the whole arousal process or what doctors have told me.

It seems complicated to explain. When someone knows that you’re different than them sexually, it feels like they judge you.

I could never judge someone who doesn’t like what I like. They get to like what they like.

[Heather]

I find it very tricky to educate people when I'm hurt or have had my trauma cued in some way. For one, who wants to be trying to correct someone's ignorance or boundary-violation in that moment? I sure don't, I want to be taking care of myself, and to do that, will usually need space from whoever was involved, rather than to dig in more with them.

So, personally, I don't really think that when you have people saying things like this to you is the time to try and explain yourself (plus, hopefully obviously, you shouldn't have to, anyway). My best advice at times like these is to either just excuse yourself straightaway ("Excuse me, I need to go to the bathroom/an appointment/somewhere else/whatever," and then you just go wherever is away, or, if you're feeling able and want to, to do a quick correct and comment and THEN put an end to it. So, something like, "Actually what you are saying to me right now is really misinformed, but I am not interested in teaching you, so I suggest you do some research. Now let's either change the subject or part ways," or "I don't want to talk to you about my sex life anymore," or "The way you're talking to me is disrespectful and crummy and I need to ask you to stop."

Who knows, maybe another time you WILL actually want to educate them and it won't have to be in the context of talking about something so loaded and personal. Maybe one of these folks will even come back to you having done the research and apologize. But no matter what, I'd lobby to respond to things like this in ways that put your needs front and center. Don't get sucked into defending yourself or being cornered into being someone's sex ed teacher, you know?

Again, I'm so sorry you've had to hear some of this, particularly since it sounds like you haven't really wanted to share details about your sex life in the first place, but have only done so because you have felt pressure to. This all sucks.

[PishPosh997]

Hi heather,

This is great advice. I have ignored people before too, so I feel better about not having to explain.

Have you met people who have a hard time telling people “none of your business” or “I don’t want to discuss with you?” That’s like a foreign language for me. It’s something that I need to start doing. I like the sound of, “I don’t want to discuss my sex life with you.” It seems effective.


Thank you again. I am so grateful I found this place.

[Heather]

Honestly, I think it's fair to say that women, period, generally have a very hard time setting and holding lines and boundaries. And of course we do: the whole world and nearly every culture in it tends to allow us the barest of boundaries, at best, and usually very begrudgingly.

Ultimately, this is about learning to be assertive, and yep, that tends to take time for an awful lot of people, especially women. Am I correct in remembering you're currently in school? If so, you might want to look into if your school offers any assertiveness-training courses: some do! I also think that self-defense training is a good one for increasing assertiveness. Something about how people's posture and vibe tends to change when they get that training will even sometimes seem to result in people behaving different from the front because they can pick up on the fact that you're ready to GO if need be.

It's my pleasure: I'm glad you found us, too!

[PishPosh997]

I feel like the definition of assertive varies from culture to culture. People of Color, my My white-american male friends and my European immigrant friends are respectful towards me and have called me a strong woman. The girls who are very nosy and invasive belong to one particular group. I don’t know if it’s their upbringing, where they think they can be blunt and forceful. My culture would see them as rude and unclassy.

I got what I needed from this thread. Hopefully, someone else can share their experiences with CSA and sex too. Have a wonderful week.

[Heather]

Assertiveness and aggressiveness are different things, though people seem to get them confused, I've noticed, especially in America.

[PishPosh997]

My black therapist feels like I was assertive, in hindsight. I feel like I was too, because I do share my opinions and speak up. It’s not always well-received, depending on who I communicate too.

Just an update on this thread-I dived back into the nsa scene and am glad that so many guys are okay with my sexual preferences.Most guys I am talking too are understanding of me liking to give oral more, or not being into rushing into intercourse. Several guys told me that they like oral more.

These positive experiences bring back memories of how people shamed me and tried to change me into something I am not. The fact that there are groups online dedicated to oral sex encounters debunks people telling me “it’s going to be very rare for you to find a man. You need to be this way sexually to get men to like you.” (Something a woman told me)

I was told that sexually abused people aren’t capable of engaging in nsa. Psssh....I had an encounter last week. It was totally fine. In fact, the nsa act made me feel happier.

Edit: i decided to take out some stuff.

[Heather]

For sure, those kinds of things people told you were wrong. They were also most likely projections of their own feelings, fears and insecurities, like that woman probably thinks that is how SHE needs to be (sadly).

It's also wrong that those of us who are survivors of sexual abuse can't have casual/nsa sex. No kind of blanket statement about what kinds of relationships/sex any group of people can have is ever going to be true: we're all just way too diverse for that. Then, of course, there's the whole garbage that stems from people knowingly or unknowingly propping up rape culture by talking about all the things survivors can't do, which effectively just gives those who abused us exactly the kind of power they were seeking.

I'm so glad that you have been having the kinds of experiences and interactions you want!

[PishPosh997]

Projection sounds about right. It’s hard to not take things personally when you’re made to feel flawed. Sometimes, having new experiences can really help.


So glad this site doesn’t tell csa survivors what to do with their sex lives

[Heather]

Oh, I wouldn't suggest you not take it personally. I mean, how can you not when it's lobbed at you that way?!?

I just put that out there as one way of making clear that often when people say stuff like that, it's because they *believe* it's true, even when it isn't. (And because even though it sucks someone is making you suffer by saying things like that to you, maybe sometimes it does a thing to know they are themselves suffering from the same false belief.)

Per that second comment, I don't imagine why we would. For one, that would include me, and I would certainly take issue with that, but we also work very hard to assure all the information we share is accurate information that supports people in creating healthy sex lives they want and enjoy. And telling anyone what to do, especially people already having to work to undo someone else taking control of some aspect of this part of life, very much is not in alignment with any of that!

[PishPosh997]

That’s true. That’s their world view, and that’s fine if that world view works for them. It should be common sense that some else may experience life differently from them. I do believe in luck, and it just so happens that I can find sex partners who match me. Maybe there’s someone else in the world who has had a totally opposite experience.

With sex and being a csa survivor, I had another woman (another csa survivor) tell me that “first date sex is okay for other people, but not for you.” That sounds like a double standard. Clearly, the encounter I had a few weeks was something that I could handle. I lucked out by finding a decent and harmless person to hook up with. If Things are fun and safe, I don’t see what the big deal is.

Thank you so much for listening!