Would This Be Statutory Rape?

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TigerLilyKitty
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Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

Okay, let’s start with an intro. I am a transgender male, and my girlfriend is a transgender female. I am 16, she is 15, she’s 10 months younger than I am. The law would likely see me as a female and her as a male.

Anyways.. My girlfriend wants to start doing things, and so do I. Absolutely NO penetration, but oral and finger stuff. However, my mom says that if I have sex, I can go to jail. (The age of consent here is 16) If we touch each other like this, would I be raping her? Would I go to jail?! :? :cry:
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TigerLilyKitty
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

And by penetration I mean intercourse
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Heather
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by Heather »

Without knowing what exactly the laws are in your area -- rather than just the age of consent -- we couldn't say. Often, even in places where the age of consent is, for instance, 16, part of the policies of those laws allow for people within a certain age range, like those who are 14-18, as an example, to still be sexual together without it being outside the law. As well, age of consent laws sometimes include all kinds of sex, other times only some kinds.

That said, is your parent generally supportive of you? I ask that because even if and when sex with a partner is lawful, if you're trans minors, and the adults around you aren't supportive, it can be a pretty unsafe situation to be in, you know?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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TigerLilyKitty
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

I live in Michigan. Our parents understand and know that we are both trans, yes.
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Heather
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by Heather »

And are they supportive of you two being in a sexual relationship? That's the thing that had/has me concerned most. Other people certainly could report the two of you and that could result in criminal charges, but this is something that almost always tends to only wind up being an issue because family members report.

Anyway, in Michigan, unfortunately, you're in one of the few states where there is NOT an exemption for those close in age, so your Mom is right: since your girlfriend is not yet at the age of consent and you're over it, it would be unlawful in your state to engage in sexual activity together (it looks like the law here only applies to intercourse, but I'm not 100% on that).

How do you feel about waiting things out some to play it safest?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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TigerLilyKitty
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

No, they don’t want us having sex, but they wouldn’t report me I’m sure!
I’ve mentioned it to my girlfriend several times, but she keeps trying to touch me and get me to touch her. I’m not very assertive, but I’m scared that I’ll get in trouble if she doesn’t listen. I want to do things with her but jail isn’t worth it.. How can I convince her when she’s SO sure it’ll be fine?
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Heather
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by Heather »

Jail does seem unlikely: people in their teens don't usually go to jail in cases like this. However -- especially given how transphobic and awful people can be, unfortunately -- simply because you're trans you are going to be more vulnerable, and I do think it's wise to figure you're at greater risks with bad consequences from this than cisgender people are. That's not right, but it still just is. :(

You know, separate from the law, I'm hearing what sounds like your girlfriend not respecting your boundaries and pressuring you. That wouldn't be okay even if everything was legal, and it isn't okay just because she feels safer than you, you know? It sounds to me like it might be a good idea, period, to set a strong limit here and make clear you need more time. Since it sounds like maybe she's lacking some practice or maturity when it comes to doing consent well -- that includes not pushing someone's limits -- I think she'd benefit from some more time, too.

Ultimately, you shouldn't EVER have to convince a partner about not having sex, of any kind. All anyone should ever have to do is say no (or not now, or not yet, or whatever version their no is), and anyone should back right off and respect that and NOT keep coming back and asking or pushing. Instead, they should wait until the person who said no brings it up and then says they want to explore it or even just talk about it. Anything else really is pressuring, and it's just not okay.

Do you think that you can tell your girlfriend no on all this for now, and add an extra statement in there that you need her to hear you and stop pushing? If you can, do you think she'll respect that?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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TigerLilyKitty
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

What about the fact that she wasn’t wanting to have intercourse? Does that matter?
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Heather
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by Heather »

I don't think it matters in that I hear you describing her not respecting limits you're setting. In other words, I see a problem here separate from the legal issue. Did you understand what I was talking about around that, and why it matters for her to respect your limits and behave differently with them than she has been even for things that are or would be legal?

Legally, I can't really speak to that because, like I said, I couldn't myself get a clear take of the laws there to be sure if the AOC there is just about intercourse or not (again, looks like, but I'm not 100%). Someone who has an actual legal education and could look at the law for you would be the best person to ask about that.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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TigerLilyKitty
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

She tries to respect my boundaries and in the moment she always recoils and apologizes. Sometimes though.. I guess she forgets? Or tells me that it’s okay and that nobody can hear us, that I won’t get in trouble.
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Heather
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by Heather »

Thing is, that's pressuring, what she's doing. Maybe she doesn't mean to do it, but she's doing it. It also sounds like she is just still learning how to do boundaries -- like she knows how she's supposed to respect them, but isn't quite at being able to do that, you know?

Look: it can for sure be hard when you really want to be sexual with someone and really want to be touched to be good about that stuff. But when we're actually ready to be intimate in those ways with other people? We need to be able to be good about consent, limits and boundaries, including always remembering they really matter and we need to always respect them. That's what I meant when I said it sounded like she could use some more time anyway, to learn more of those skills, and to get better at this BEFORE getting more intimate in new ways.

Even if no one heard you and you didn't get in trouble, you're saying no (or, from the sounds of things "not yet"). She just needs to respect that, and she needs to understand that saying anything that isn't just basically, "Okay, I hear you, what should we do now/today instead?" is pressuring or an outright violation.

It really sounds to me like she's just not ready for this kind of intimacy. And that's okay! She's young (you both are), and you both have the ability to only do any of this at a pace that actually matches where both of you are at. I'd personally suggest y'all take more time even if the law were different: time for you to perhaps gain more confidence in having and setting limits, for instance, and for her to get better about doing consenting right.

How do you feel about the start of that conversation with her, where you set clear limits, I suggested higher up there? Maybe at least give it a try?

I'm also happy to pass on some links for you, her or both of you about consent, limits and boundaries and how to do right by each other with all this if you want. :)
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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TigerLilyKitty
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

I’d appreciate that. This situation actually used to be worse, she’s been trying to get us to do something for awhile now. She used to be awful with boundaries, even triggering my ptsd about my ex-boyfriend (he molested me in the bathroom once). She hasn’t done anything outright like that since, but still... She’s not very good with boundaries yet, and I agree that we aren’t ready. She doesn’t even understand why my father doesn’t want us to be sleeping over!
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Heather
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by Heather »

I'm so sorry to hear that. Can I ask if the rest of the relationship feels/is safer for you than the sexual part of it sounds? Do you actually feel emotionally (and other kinds of) safe to set the kind of clear boundary I suggested with her, or is that something you're worried about doing?

In terms of consent/boundary/emotionally safe closeness information, I'd start with these pieces. At the bottom of every page on the main site, these pages included, are a list of related links. If you and/or she want more than these links, following the related content at the bottom of those pages can easily give you that:
• Driver's Ed for the Sexual Superhighway: Navigating Consent
• http://www.scarleteen.com/article/advic ... boundaries
• Intimacy: The Whys, Hows, How-Nots, and So-Nots
• This piece might also come in handy for you right now: Whoa, There! How to Slow Down When You're Moving Too Fast
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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TigerLilyKitty
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Location: Narnia

Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by TigerLilyKitty »

I do feel safe in the relationship. I love her and she’s very kind and loving towards me. This is the only time we’ve ever experienced something like this in the relationship.

She has agreed to stop and give us time.
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Heather
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Re: Would This Be Statutory Rape?

Unread post by Heather »

I'm really glad to hear all those things -- that you feel safe and she's generally great to you and that she's agreed to fall back with this and respect your boundaries. Is there anything else I can help with or talk through with you?
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
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